Irish Grass Fed Beef Branding

risers

Lad's and Ladies,
I'm a part time suckler beef farmer and sick to the back teeth of listening to farmers whinging about the price beef being paid to farmers.
I know all you boards.ie users are extreamely progressive farmers and I'm using this fourm to ask if any of you know if there are currently beef farmers out there currently looking at setting up an Irish Beef brand similar to the successful Truely Irish Pork brand.

I'm seriously considering selling beef direct and setting up my own brand but I don't have the scale or capacity to sell overseas where the real opportunities lie.

reilig

risers wrote: »

Lad's and Ladies,
I'm a part time suckler beef farmer and sick to the back teeth of listening to farmers whinging about the price beef being paid to farmers.
I know all you boards.ie users are extreamely progressive farmers and I'm using this fourm to ask if any of you know if there are currently beef farmers out there currently looking at setting up an Irish Beef brand similar to the successful Truely Irish Pork brand.

I'm seriously considering selling beef direct and setting up my own brand but I don't have the scale or capacity to sell overseas where the real opportunities lie.

Its a great idea,, and someting like it really needs to be put in place,, but . . you'd be crushed by Goodman and Kepak before the brand took its first breath. Its been tried so many times and a lot of people owe a lot of money because of it.

John_F

+1 on the above, just think about it, there are only so many niche markets available. after the striploin and serloins the value decreases as you are effectively entering a different market. Goodman and co are supplying the major brands in europe and to the large super markets where people buy.

there are only so many people who buy from farmer markets (due mostly to awareness and perception of agriculture and where food comes from), butchers source and kill their own usually, and the super markets have a strong relationship with its suppliers (AIBP Kepak Dawn etc) this relationship and supply reliability is the strongest link they have in my view.

Also just think about the abatoirr regualtions and traceability compared to the pigmeat sector.

Feel free to try it and im sure there are alot of farmers would back you, but what about the market for the beef?

there are local brand names but i feel thats as far as they go,

risers

thanks for reply's, good points.
Yep, no point in competing againts large meat plants or selling into large supermarkets, not a runner.

I ask is it possible to set up a beef brand controlled by farmers in co op style like Truely Irish. Being in contol of Marketing would be critical and in my eyes would be main reason for success or failure. Would target high end boutiques food businesses in Ire first then UK.
Pros:
- Being able to tell good story to consumer
- health benfits (huge opp's to exploite here)
- free range grass fed
- guaranteed 3 week hanging
-
- Farmer group purchasing opps i.e. Meal, machinery, fertilizer etc
- Automatic beef discussion group

I don't know if the above sounds crazy, interested to read your comments. Marketing / distribution channels would be the big costs.

My only other option in terms of beef selling is to go it alone (see links).

http://www.omegabeefdirect.ie/html/Products.htm
http://www.higherhacknell.co.uk/about.php


My reason for throwing this open to the floor is that as a part time suckler farmer in West of Ireland, I'm racking my head to see where I diversify into. I cannot continue for much longer putting in all spare time after working a full day (full time job) and then not even breaking even after cattle sales. With imput costs rising every year I aint doing this for much longer I think. When I say not breaking even I'm not factoring in direct payments as I think these will shrink rapidily and won't be around for much longer.

My other idea would be to get into contract dairy heifer rearing, anyone out there any experience of this?

reilig

My reason for throwing this open to the floor is that as a part time suckler farmer in West of Ireland, I'm racking my head to see where I diversify into. I cannot continue for much longer putting in all spare time after working a full day (full time job) and then not even breaking even after cattle sales. With imput costs rising every year I aint doing this for much longer I think. When I say not breaking even I'm not factoring in direct payments as I think these will shrink rapidily and won't be around for much longer.

I agree with you, and admire the way that you view the future and believe that this is how I view the future too. A farming community no longer reliant on grants. A way to sell our produce that gives us a fair share of the price that it is being sold for - as opposed to the current system which sees large supermarkets make enormous profits on out backs.

As producers, we should hold all of the cards in this game, but we have given them away to these large supermarkets. I firmly believe that there are 2 things that need to happen - the first, and something that a lot of people won't like, but i think that those who are producing food at below cost need to pack up and give up farming. These people are living on the grants and selling their cattle / sheep / crops at less than it cost to produce them. The only way that these people will stop selling food at below cost of production will be when grants and subsidies are reduced or removed. It will open up a level playing field for us all. (What I mean is that those who are only in it for the grants should get out. )

The second thing that I believe that needs to happen is a change in the mindset of the food buyers in this country from convenience foods to fresh foods. This will see immence benefits to our economy on all sides. The first being a reduction in our state health bill. It will see an increase in tax revenue to the government caused by a swing away from huge supermarkets like tesco who pay very little tax in this country. It will see an increase in farmer to final food buyer sales, boosting income for farmers and tax for the government. Local markets, farmers markets, country markets, street markets, local fruit and veg shops, butcher shops - all need to be promoted. These are the key to us, the farmers to ensure that we have more profit from our food.

At the end of the day, food is being sold in supermarkets at an acceptable price. Yours and my problem is that the factories and supermarkets are not paying us enough for it. We're selling it to them at whatever price they choose because we know that even if we do make a loss, we have the single payment to fall back on.

When this changes, irish Agriculture will change for the better.

Username John

reilig wrote: »

i think that those who are producing food at below cost need to pack up and give up farming. These people are living on the grants and selling their cattle / sheep / crops at less than it cost to produce them. The only way that these people will stop selling food at below cost of production will be when grants and subsidies are reduced or removed. It will open up a level playing field for us all. (What I mean is that those who are only in it for the grants should get out. )

Not that I dont agree with you Reilg...

But this is looking at the pure econmics of it... two issues with this statement

1) As a part time farmer - I'm not making a loss, but the economics of what I put in (time wise) vs what I get out economicly doesnt really work out (financially speaking)... so this begs the question of why do we do it anyways?

2) As long as people arent losing money, and are making a bit of a profit (when they are part time) they will farm. Factories know this, so they will pay just enough to keep lads 'in the game'

I agree with you that the sooner we get rid of grants, and move to a system where the producer is rewarded properly, then we'll all be better off... but how do we get here? How do we raise the price paid for animals?

Corsendonk

Great idea

Have you ever thought of applying for the following label as well?

http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/schemes/index_en.htm

Ireland has only 4 lines with any of the above labels but are friends in the north have applied for Northern Irish Lamb, Armagh apples etc. The French have over 200 lines.

The UK has applied for a TSG(highlights traditional character, either in the composition or means of production) ( for traditional pastured reared beef.

All you need is a group of producers to submit an application to the department.

reilig

Username John wrote: »

I agree with you that the sooner we get rid of grants, and move to a system where the producer is rewarded properly, then we'll all be better off... but how do we get here? How do we raise the price paid for animals?

I know what's wrong, but I never said I have the answers

I honestly don't know, but it needs to happen. Maybe other people have better ideas than me and can throw them out here.

blue5000

I like the idea, but there is an awful lot of 'buts'!

I'll just throw up a few questions
What market?
Where to process?
What to do with 5th quarter?
One particular breed or any breed?
Year round supply?
How big?
What could we do that nobody else is doing?

risers

What market?
- Restaurants / targeted food supermarkets like Superquinn or equivalent in UK where consumers have good disposable income and will pay for quality beef?
However i ask if 'Truely Irish' have managed to get space on Irish Dunnes and Tesco shelves why can't we have a beef equivalent created by a number of Irish beef farmers?


Where to process?
- Contract killed

What to do with 5th quarter?
- I don't know!!! Although I read recent talk about allowing this back into chain. would have to research this.

One particular breed or any breed?
- Angus maybe but I would say any breed as long as all co op members keep to an agreed production code of say for example animal diet for finishing.

Year round supply?
- Would be difficult to judge initially but if brand took off could be achieved

How big?
- Baby steps at start i.e. farmers markets / creating awareness.

What could we do that nobody else is doing?
- We would have a new story to tell. Educating the consumer about the beef their buying, where it came from, the fields it grazed in, info and recepies for meal ideas, info on the farmer and most importantly the health benefits of grass fed beef product which have never been extensively promoted.

I'm probably contradicting myself to what I've written earlier but I think the real opportunities lie also in developing an overseas sales channel. And that is because most irish consumers buy in the big 3 supermarkets and as one of ye mentioned in earlier thread the farmers markets are not big enough in terms of consumers purchasing.
Another reason for targeting overseas buyers is the very clean green image we still have and if a specific beef product could be branded properly then it could work.
I appreciate there's a lot of 'but's ' and unknown's, and testing the water in dear old Ireland would have to be done.
Branding / pricing and target market would be important considerations.

doctor evil

Does hot branding occur in Ireland?

Muckit

risers wrote: »

Lad's and Ladies,
I'm a part time suckler beef farmer and sick to the back teeth of listening to farmers whinging about the price beef being paid to farmers.
I know all you boards.ie users are extreamely progressive farmers and I'm using this fourm to ask if any of you know if there are currently beef farmers out there currently looking at setting up an Irish Beef brand similar to the successful Truely Irish Pork brand.

I'm seriously considering selling beef direct and setting up my own brand but I don't have the scale or capacity to sell overseas where the real opportunities lie.

Hi risers

This is a very interesting thread;) Firstly I love your whole idea for marketing beef under an 'Irish grass fed beef' type banner. It's second nature to us as livestock farmers to primarily utilise grass to feed and fatten our stock. It's one of this countries greatest natural resources and one which we are known the world over for (Emerald Isle etc.... indeed this could be worked into a branding strategy:rolleyes:) We may give out about all the rain we get, but it's our temperate climate that helps grow the green stuff!

We could be forgiven though, being Irish, for sometimes taking this fact for granted. Outside of the UK and perhaps New Zealand, we are unique in having lush green grass for a large part of the year. So why don't we monopolise on this fact??

'Feedlots' are not a term we are overly familiar with here, but for alot of farmers in the US and on the continent they are the norm for fattening beef cattle. Nor are we familiar with having to feed hay during the months of june/july because the 'grass' (if you could call it that) is all burnt up. I've seen it first hand on my uncles farm in france. Grass quality is poor to say the least and very stemmy. 'Topping' is not something that is commonly practiced.

But getting back to the point. I would agree with Reilig and say that going it alone or with a small group of farmers would be a non runner, u'd be a small fish in a very big pond and the 'big sharks', who have been mentioned, wouldn't be long getting shot of you.

If something like this were to work, it would have to be done on a national scale. All farmers working together to an agreed set of guidelines, standards and criteria. We need to give ourselves more credit though and stop blaming ourselves for receiving poor prices in the marts, factories etc. The vast majority of livestock farmers out there are producing a quality product, we're just not getting paid enough for it.

It's the marketing side that needs to be worked on, and to be fair, this is not a farmers main area of expertise:D If we had some government body (Bord Bia perhaps?) to focus on this, we could focus on what you do best. The power of marketing should never be underestimated. Large muti-nationals wouldn't be spending so much on it if it didn't work;)

Reilig, as regards your idea of getting rid of the farmers who are not making a profit...... hmmmm..... would there be many farmers left???:D We're a country of small farmers, end of story. Owning a 4WD tractor doesn't change that:rolleyes: (I even fool myself sometimes with that one) The farmers Journal along with others I believe have caused us to turn on each other and blame ourselves for our own demeise. If we got a little help and direction from our government we'd respond.

The only way we'I acheive 'economy of scale' is if we unite as a single entity. 'Irish grass fed beef' is our key to the future of beef farming in Ireland. Why should we conform to an international stereotype??

We are a nation of small dedicated farmers producing a quality grass fed product..... this is our selling point IMHO

Muckit

Have a look at this clip I'm just after finding on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-BaOGVpJY

I think you'I agree we're doing this 10 times better already!! Only difference is Americans have the confidence and the bullsh*t to sell the idea

Soem good points raised too about Omega3's etc. Something I didn't know. As Reilig stated our nation's health could be improved by promoting the advantages of 'grass fed'. Again a marketing task:rolleyes:

Corsendonk

Muckit wrote: »

Have a look at this clip I'm just after finding on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-BaOGVpJY

I think you'I agree we're doing this 10 times better already!! Only difference is Americans have the confidence and the bullsh*t to sell the idea

Soem good points raised too about Omega3's etc. Something I didn't know. As Reilig stated our nation's health could be improved by promoting the advantages of 'grass fed'. Again a marketing task:rolleyes:

Well considering the EU crackdown on health claims recently the Omega 3 claims need to be well researched and backed up. The last thing you need is a label redesign.

Muckit

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well considering the EU crackdown on health claims recently the Omega 3 claims need to be well researched and backed up. The last thing you need is a label redesign.

Good point Corsendork. Labelling and 'marketing claims' would be the remit of a marketing team with such a venture. I would hope they wouldn't be basing their research on youtube like me:D

Shauny2010

Great thread.

My thought`s so far are that were definitely producing the best cattle in the world. Go to any of the weanling sales in Ennis mart and you`ll see top quality cattle going through. I`ve seen marts in the UK and also in France and for sure there's a big difference in cattle quality. (As for what they do do in the US, South America and Australia with there Hormone infested tripe its mind boggling)

The Big problem I see is that all these cattle are being exported say to Italy, where there fed a bale of hay and a bucket of nuts and then killed of as Italian cattle, same in Scotland, and Europe
.
This is happening because the meat factories here pay so little, do a piss poor job of promoting our product. There happy to supply to the big retailers in the UK who put Irish meat on the bottom shelf!

A new Irish Brand is a great idea, even if we didn't supply the big retailers but specialised in supplying smaller retailers with this high quality product.
I along with many others here would definitely be interested in Coop of sorts.

I wonder would An Bord Bia help or does Larry Goodman have them in his pocket along with the bunch of TDs we have

Muckit

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Great thread.

My thought`s so far are that were definitely producing the best cattle in the world. Go to any of the weanling sales in Ennis mart and you`ll see top quality cattle going through. I`ve seen marts in the UK and also in France and for sure there's a big difference in cattle quality. (As for what they do do in the US, South America and Australia with there Hormone infested tripe its mind boggling)

The Big problem I see is that all these cattle are being exported say to Italy, where there fed a bale of hay and a bucket of nuts and then killed of as Italian cattle, same in Scotland, and Europe
.
This is happening because the meat factories here pay so little, do a piss poor job of promoting our product. There happy to supply to the big retailers in the UK who put Irish meat on the bottom shelf!

A new Irish Brand is a great idea, even if we didn't supply the big retailers but specialised in supplying smaller retailers with this high quality product.
I along with many others here would definitely be interested in Coop of sorts.

I wonder would An Bord Bia help or does Larry Goodman have them in his pocket along with the bunch of TDs we have

I agree Shauny2010

The last few years has seen the focus of Irish beef shifted towards holding producion for the Italian market as being the ideal, producing the '€1000 weanling' as the IFJ like to call them:D:D:D Sur' we all know that any suckler farmer that can't produce them isn't worth his salt, right? (Bullsh*t:rolleyes:)

Yet again we've allowed the pressure to be forced back on ourselves, where is it going to stop.... maybe we'I start crossing our cows with elephants??!!!:D:eek:

I'm also not a big fan of feeding large amounts of ration, especially not to young cattle. Yet if you don't have a creep feeder your not a good farmer, right?:rolleyes: Did we even know what one was a few years back?

We need to start producing a product that best suits our Irish farming system, as a WHOLE. Yes we have alot of suckler farmers that are intent on supplying BB weanlings for the Italian market, perhaps they like the challenge..... and the headaches that go with it.

I know alot of lads will disagree with me possibly, but I don't think that supplying the Italian market suits the majority of lads. How does having to buy in ration bring down costs?? Why should we let another country dictate how we farm?

I think that given a VIABLE alternative, alot of farmers would choose it. As I stated before, we're a nation of primarily small farmers and mainly PART-TIME at that. It's less stress we need for God's sake!:rolleyes:

As regards who we supply or what the market would be I believe beef has been and still can be one of our biggest exports. i'm not saying not to supply the home amrket, indeed we would. But great potential lies in exporting abroad. What i would change is REDUCING our live shipping. (again I know everyone may not agree:rolleyes:) Dairy calves may still be best exported abroad to spain and the likes, unless lads would like to go back to double suckling!? Anyone?

If we could make this 'grass fed irish beef' marketing work and slaughter the majority of our FINISHED cattle HERE in this country we would be on the 'pig's back' (or perhaps the CASH COW:D)

Package the product right then with alot of green imagery of our farms and countryside with an appropriate brand name. I know I'm simplying things, but I think it's the bones of something that could work... why not??

blue5000

BBc programme Countryfile are having a look at US beef production at 6.30 this (sunday) evening.

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

BBc programme Countryfile are having a look at US beef production at 6.30 this (sunday) evening.

It's a great programme, always try to watch it.

Seen it there this evening alright, it was US dairying though that they were looking at. Milking 32,000 cows on one farm, WOW:eek: The Americans know how to do big, but is bigger always better?:rolleyes:

Muckit

I see Justin McCarthy in this week's IFJ has rightly identified that the marketing of Irish beef is somewhat lacking by the factories. It makes a nice change from his usual rants of us having to improve things from 'inside the farm gate':rolleyes:

Muckit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pLy7Gjlww

:rolleyes: