Sarkozy sees common EU-Russia area by 2025

dlofnep

Europe and Russia should work toward a common economic, security and visa-free space by 2025 to boost ties between the two blocs, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said on Tuesday.

The European Union and Russia have been negotiating a draft cooperation accord since 2003 to create four "common spaces" -- on the economy, freedom, security and justice -- that would remove trade barriers and promote reforms and competitiveness.

"From my point of view, in 10-15 years the vision that we should have is a common economic EU-Russia space, end of visa requirements and a common security concept," Sarkozy told a news conference after a two-day meeting with President Dmitry Medvedev and Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I2YF20101019

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly cautious towards a visa-free space between Russia & the EU. Would this involve simply freedom to travel, or freedom to live in the EU?

However, co-operation between the EU & Russia might be a positive step forward to mutual understanding. Russia has the potential to be a very strong ally to the EU in both economic & security matters.

I would like to see the proposals in detail - as it looks very sketchy right now.

rumour

This is great news.

p1akuw47h5r3it

dlofnep wrote: »

Full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I2YF20101019

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly cautious towards a visa-free space between Russia & the EU. Would this involve simply freedom to travel, or freedom to live in the EU?

However, co-operation between the EU & Russia might be a positive step forward to mutual understanding. Russia has the potential to be a very strong ally to the EU in both economic & security matters.

I would like to see the proposals in detail - as it looks very sketchy right now.

Why?

I think it's great news. Russia is one of the fastest emerging economies in the world and holds most of the oil that is used by other EU countries.

i also think Russia would be a great mediator in political differences, for example, in the whole argument between Iran and the U.S

CIE

dlofnep wrote: »

Full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I2YF20101019

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly cautious towards a visa-free space between Russia & the EU. Would this involve simply freedom to travel, or freedom to live in the EU?

However, co-operation between the EU & Russia might be a positive step forward to mutual understanding. Russia has the potential to be a very strong ally to the EU in both economic & security matters.

I would like to see the proposals in detail - as it looks very sketchy right now.

Molotov-Ribbentrop part deux. It was brokered by Germany. Similar agreements have been precursors to war in the past; they've allowed those two powers to proceed with their agendas unhindered, until of course they ultimately break down. Anyone who thinks this is "great news" ought to be scared instead.

Einhard

I don't think the EU can feasibly lecture others on democratic principles and civil liberties whilst cosying up to Putin et al in Russia.

Spacedog

I would welcome a russian person willing to live ireland more to half the pricks living here at the moment. I've got loads of friends of all nationalities and am only prejudiced against small minded idiots who judge others based on nationality, race, sexuality etc. for me it's ok for such people to be labelled treated the same contempt as they would treat others.

On a side note, Fun Fact: Russia was the first country to recognise the Irish Free State.

Mark200

dlofnep wrote: »

Full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I2YF20101019

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly cautious towards a visa-free space between Russia & the EU. Would this involve simply freedom to travel, or freedom to live in the EU?

However, co-operation between the EU & Russia might be a positive step forward to mutual understanding. Russia has the potential to be a very strong ally to the EU in both economic & security matters.

I would like to see the proposals in detail - as it looks very sketchy right now.

I'd imagine they're talking about something similar to the current arrangements between the EU and US.

theworkingman

dlofnep wrote: »

Full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69I2YF20101019

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly cautious towards a visa-free space between Russia & the EU. Would this involve simply freedom to travel, or freedom to live in the EU?

However, co-operation between the EU & Russia might be a positive step forward to mutual understanding. Russia has the potential to be a very strong ally to the EU in both economic & security matters.

I would like to see the proposals in detail - as it looks very sketchy right now.

i believe in individuality i dont believe in this EU and want to see us back with the way it was before the EU,there are too many politicians these days talking about a new world order and a worldwide currency.we are paying over two thirds of our taxes to service the interest on our national debt to the world banks and its the same for most countries in europe and its the less well off which are bearing the brunt of this hardship in their paypackets while getting less healthcare and less education the reality is we are all being enslaved by this debt
as for security breaking down borders will not make us more secure would you go on holidays and leave your front door open?

Lockstep

I am supportive for more Russians to come over here but am really worried at stronger links being forged with the Russian State.

It's authoritarianism, corruption, anti-democracy and overly-strong executive mean I'd oppose forming too many links with the Federation.

Russian women.......sweet

yermanoffthetv

Was in Russia a few months ago and can tell you its economy is booming.Was also a bloody nightmare organizing a visa! Closer ties with the EU is a welcome step forward. Theyve got resources we need and weve got goods they want, win win situation. While theres still a good bit to do on the freedom and justice "common spaces" reforms are at least begining to appear like reform of the police and more transparency in the court system.








(And yes, the women are absolute stunners)

Lockstep

The main problem the Russian economy has is that it's basically a petro-state. It's entire economy is so tied up with energy that when energy prices go down (as happened in 1998) the Russian economy goes into freefall.

It also engages in bilateral treates with EU member states, taking advantage of the relative disunity of the MS. A clear common policy needs to be made with the EU as regards to Russia.

Corsendonk

kickoutthejams wrote: »

The main problem the Russian economy has is that it's basically a petro-state. It's entire economy is so tied up with energy that when energy prices go down (as happened in 1998) the Russian economy goes into freefall.

It also engages in bilateral treates with EU member states, taking advantage of the relative disunity of the MS. A clear common policy needs to be made with the EU as regards to Russia.

140 million Russians,2 Billion chinese on the border looking at all that real estate even if its a little cold in places.

Might be one for EEAS to help co-ordinate a EU common policy.

Lockstep

GIven how bad the Russian regime is, I'm no fan of it.
The entire Russian political system is rigged to back United Russia (the pro-Putin party) and is one of the dodgiest places in the world for journalists along with an entire system based on embezzlement, corruption and privatised gains/socialised losses.


Also, if your point is that we should help the Russians as there's so many Chinese next door, we'll be of little use. There's only 500million or so in Europe.

PanchoVilla

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Why?

I think it's great news. Russia is one of the fastest emerging economies in the world and holds most of the oil that is used by other EU countries.

i also think Russia would be a great mediator in political differences, for example, in the whole argument between Iran and the U.S

Have you seen how Russia deals with political differences with it's neighboring countries?

After the recent assassination attempt against the president of Ingushetia, Yunus-bek Yevkurov, the question of whether Ramzan Kadyrov, the president of the Chechen republic, will be granted control over the neighboring Ingushetia has become a hot topic of debate. Yevkurov is now lying unconscious in the hospital and Kadyrov is proclaiming that President Dmitry Medvedev of Russia has given him a mandate to lead counter-insurgency operations in Ingushetia.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/07/01/ingushetia-under-siege

The following documentary is about Russian security services committing war crimes in Ingushetia, a country you've probably never even heard of. I suggest you watch it if you honestly believe the EU would be better off with Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kHz8bhMFc

Corsendonk

kickoutthejams wrote: »

GIven how bad the Russian regime is, I'm no fan of it.
The entire Russian political system is rigged to back United Russia (the pro-Putin party) and is one of the dodgiest places in the world for journalists along with an entire system based on embezzlement, corruption and privatised gains/socialised losses.


Also, if your point is that we should help the Russians as there's so many Chinese next door, we'll be of little use. There's only 500million or so in Europe.

I could rejig your first paragraph and insert US, do they have a two party state but hard to work out were one ends and begins at times.

Russia has always had a fear of the Chinese, the border clashes after WW 2 for example. My point was they would be more open to deal with other trading blocks rather than the Chinese.

Europeans always seem to make the mistake of thinking that Russia is in Europe, if you ask a typical Russian they get offended if you think there European.

syklops

along with an entire system based on embezzlement, corruption and privatised gains/socialised losses.

Sound like anywhere you know...?

Lockstep

Corsendonk wrote: »

I could rejig your first paragraph and insert US, do they have a two party state but hard to work out were one ends and begins at times.

Russia has always had a fear of the Chinese, the border clashes after WW 2 for example. My point was they would be more open to deal with other trading blocks rather than the Chinese.

Europeans always seem to make the mistake of thinking that Russia is in Europe, if you ask a typical Russian they get offended if you think there European.

Please tell me you're not honestly claiming the US is as bad as Russia? You could insert the US if you wish, but it wouldn't work as the US isn't a dangerous place for reporters or to back one single party.


Like it or not, the US is at least capable of swinging between Democrat and Republican, United Russia is a party which exists with no ideology except to be pro-Kremlin. Russia isn't a 2 party state. It's a 1 party state with government selectively bringing in 'reforms' like a heavily weighted party list system, double-thresholds and the ability of the courts to close down small parties. All of this to shelter United Russia (which also creates puppet or 'Potemkin parties) like Just Russia. Local government is progressively weakened (for example, Putin abolished the elections for governors and now they must be appointed by him)
I think United Russia's ideology can be best exemplified by it's Speaker of the House, Boris Gryzlov: "Parliament isn't a place for political discussions"

Likewise, the Russian presidency is much, much more powerful than the his American counterpart, ever since Yeltsin illegally attacked and dissolved the Duma.
As it stands, Russian commerce is dominated state industry (especially in regards to energy with companies like Gazprom) which makes it utterly corrupt and with no transparency.
It's media is even worse, with Reporters Without Borders' Freedom Index putting it 140 out of 178 (behind Ethiopia, above Malaysia), designates it as "Not Free" and lists it as one of the most dangerous places in the world for journalists to operate. The dominance and bias of government media (which accounts for most of the news Russians get) means that horrendously weighted coverage and treatment is given to United Russia/pro-UR parties.

Trading blocks is one thing, building stronger links is another.


I'm unsure why you're talking about Russia being thought of as Europeans, I said that there are 500million Europeans (in the EU)
Russia isn't included in that.

syklops wrote: »

Sound like anywhere you know...?

Yeah, I was expecting some sort of response like that (as if Ireland is in anyway as bad as Russia)
As much as we like to bitch and moan about how useless our government is, they are nowhere near as terrible as those in the Russian system.

Corsendonk

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Please tell me you're not honestly claiming the US is as bad as Russia? You could insert the US if you wish, but it wouldn't work as the US isn't a dangerous place for reporters or to back one single party.


Like it or not, the US is at least capable of swinging between Democrat and Republican, United Russia is a party which exists with no ideology except to be pro-Kremlin. Russia isn't a 2 party state. It's a 1 party state with government selectively bringing in 'reforms' like a heavily weighted party list system, double-thresholds and the ability of the courts to close down small parties. All of this to shelter United Russia (which also creates puppet or 'Potemkin parties) like Just Russia. Local government is progressively weakened (for example, Putin abolished the elections for governors and now they must be appointed by him)
I think United Russia's ideology can be best exemplified by it's Speaker of the House, Boris Gryzlov: "Parliament isn't a place for political discussions"

Likewise, the Russian presidency is much, much more powerful than the his American counterpart, ever since Yeltsin illegally attacked and dissolved the Duma.
As it stands, Russian commerce is dominated state industry (especially in regards to energy with companies like Gazprom) which makes it utterly corrupt and with no transparency.
It's media is even worse, with Reporters Without Borders' Freedom Index putting it 140 out of 178 (behind Ethiopia, above Malaysia), designates it as "Not Free" and lists it as one of the most dangerous places in the world for journalists to operate. The dominance and bias of government media (which accounts for most of the news Russians get) means that horrendously weighted coverage and treatment is given to United Russia/pro-UR parties.

Trading blocks is one thing, building stronger links is another.


I'm unsure why you're talking about Russia being thought of as Europeans, I said that there are 500million Europeans (in the EU)
Russia isn't included in that.
.

So how would you change the system? Is this not a country that has had centuries of single party control so you have to change the common man mindset too.

I am kind of a little jealous that they have journalists worthy of killing due to there indepth investigation of the government and industry whilst we have "journalists" that investigate using google.

Lockstep

Corsendonk wrote: »

So how would you change the system? Is this not a country that has had centuries of single party control so you have to change the common man mindset too.

I am kind of a little jealous that they have journalists worthy of killing due to there indepth investigation of the government and industry whilst we have "journalists" that investigate using google.

It's hard to say how exactly it should be changed. As it stands, it basically runs as a petrostate. Putin is still basically in charge and it runs on a system of distributing the largesse from oil to the population in exchange for them accepting the authoritarianism of the State. Things could really change if the energy market plummets (although Russia will probably spend its cash reserves to tide the population over in the short term, as it did in the late 90s)
I'd say one of the most important things is for the EU to organise a common approach to Russia, as it stands, Russia is adept at taking advantage of their divided approach for it's own benefit and forming bilateral treaties.

Democracy and a history of authoritarianism aren't incompatible, it's been working fairly well in Eastern Europe.

As regards to the media, I'd say it's that there are journalists worth killing as much as it is that Russia is corrupt/powerful enough to be *able* to kill journalists.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

yermanoffthetv

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Have you seen how Russia deals with political differences with it's neighboring countries?



http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/07/01/ingushetia-under-siege

The following documentary is about Russian security services committing war crimes in Ingushetia, a country you've probably never even heard of. I suggest you watch it if you honestly believe the EU would be better off with Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kHz8bhMFc

Source: AlJazeera. And there not biased at all are they? :rolleyes: The russian security services are fighting the kind of extremists that took hostages in Beslan and Moscow not to mention all the bombings, what exactly do you expect?