is this the first step to banning home births?

vibe666

i would have expected the press to be all over this like nobody's business, but i haven't seen anything so far, not even a thread here as far as i can find, so is this a real threat to home birthing, or just some overzealous do gooders getting the wrong end of the stick?

http://www.aimsireland.com/news/?topic=newsBulletin#_nbItem4

Press Release: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE October 14, 2010
AIMS Ireland: www.aimsireland.com

Serious Flaws in Proposed Legislation Drives Pregnant Women Underground to Birth Alone

The Association for Improvements in the Maternity Services Ireland (AIMS Ireland) release today reports from women of an underground home birth movement. The underground grassroots movement has grown from concerns that the proposed Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010 will limit women’s fundamental human right to make informed decisions in childbirth about place of birth.

The proposed new legislation, the Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010, will in effect make it illegal for a home birth midwife (SECM) to provide antenatal, intra-partum or post partum care if the pregnant woman’s circumstances do not meet criteria set in a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). Attending such women will be punishable by prison or fee, or both. Many of the women being excluded from home birth under the current MOU and proposed legislation are women who would have previously been able to avail of a home birth. These women are now to be excluded based on the HSE’s misinterpretation of evidence based guidelines which have been twisted to suit criteria within the MOU.

there's a petition here as well: http://www.gopetition.com/petition/39693.html

so are they going to force women to have all their babies in hospitals, or am i just reading misguided and overly biased opinion?

Squiggler

Well, there are already a fixed list of conditions that must be met to be eligible for Home Birth in Ireland. Without seeing what the MOU entails it's difficult to know if they are being further restricted or not.

At the moment in Ireland there appears to be more support for a Home Birth than there was 30 years ago. My parents had to pay the full cost of the midwife and other incidentals when they opted out of the publicly funded, hospital-based, system.

I am planning to have a Home Birth in March. It had to be approved by the HSE, but their approval also comes with a part payment of the costs, and my VHI will cover the majority of the remaining cost.

The level of HSE support for Home Births has been growing greatly, particularly in Cork and Kerry, over the last few years so it would be very strange if that is to be undone.

With hospitals at capacity and "superbug" incidents at an all time high it would seem conterproductive to force all pregnant women into them.

I certainly wouldn't feel brave enough to face a planned hospital birth.

How Strange

I don't know much about home births in general so can't comment on the article but like Squiggler I'd be suprised at hse forcing women to choose a hospital birth considering over crowding, lack of resources and upcoming massive budget cuts.

Having said that they probably want to regulate it so it is as safe as possible for mother and baby which would minimise the likelihood of complications resulting in hospital post natal admissions

vibe666

i don't know for sure if it's what they are trying to do (hence me posting the thread up), but it would be a real shame imho.

i know a lot of people recommend it for the first pregnancy in case of unforseen complications, but i'm very much in favour of a woman's right to choose where she has her baby as long as it's a practical choice.

women have been having babies at home long before busybody bureaucrats were making up stupid laws to try and overly protect people from themselves.

i actually came across it via someone in the UK that i know posting it to her facebook profile, so you never know if these things are actually legit or just someone seeking attention, but the links seem legit enough. i'm just surprised that there isn't more in the news about it if it is true.

amen

Having said that they probably want to regulate it so it is as safe as possible for mother and baby which would minimise the likelihood of complications resulting in hospital post natal admissions

if that is true then they should ban all delivers in nursing homes.
anything happens to the mother/baby that is unexpected then you taken straight to a public hospital

Squiggler

How Strange wrote: »

Having said that they probably want to regulate it so it is as safe as possible for mother and baby which would minimise the likelihood of complications resulting in hospital post natal admissions

If this is the purpose then they really haven't done their research.

There is overwhelming evidence from other countries that, if both mother and baby are healthy and there is no history of complications, by far the safest place for a woman to give birth is at home.

Newborns are being exposed to MRSA in hospitals. Pregnant women attending hospital appointments are exposed to colds, flu, measles and other illnesses carried by the other expectant mothers and their children. The chances of a woman developing an infection increase greatly if she gives birth in a hospital environment.

On top of that, in her own home a woman can move around during labour, watch television, take a bath, lie down, stand, walk, do whatever she feels like. This has been shown to decrease the average amount of time spent in labour (hospital stresses can hinder labour, or even pause it - as happened my own sister). The more relaxed a mother is the easier it will be to give birth, which is a bit of a no-brainer really.

And, in my opinion, the quality and level of care is at least as good as the best private care. I personally think it is better because you are dealing with the one healthcare professional throughout, and you get to know them and they get to know you and your family.

vibe666

someone just posted this in the facebook thread i got it from and it's starting to sound more and more like BS to me.

Irish hospitals are light years behind British ones in terms of natural birth - they still have the "partogram," and you fail to do 1cm an hour at your peril! Several friends have described being kept on the antenatal ward far longer than was good for them, because the MW know once they hit the labour ward, that clock starts ticking... there is a situation of women being protecdted from doctors by MW. Not good, not good at all.

since i don't actually know anything much about giving birth in ireland (since i'm not irish or a woman) can anyone comment on whether or not any of this sounds true?

Squiggler

I think it varies from hospital to hospital, but from friends' and family's accounts it definitely seems that at least some hospitals are more interested in their own birth timetable than that of the mother or baby.

One hospital attempted to force my sister to submit to being induced at 38 weeks because they were of the opinion that she had gone 40 weeks. My sister's husband was in the military at the time, and they knew the exact date of conception, the only night they had had together in three months either side of the conception.

When she refused to go in to be induced (two to four weeks early - remember) they told her she was killing her baby and to "get your butt in here now!". When she didn't they called her GP and had the GP try further scare tactics.

Two weeks later she went into labour, exactly on schedule, and was promptly berated so much on arrival at the hospital (for throwing out their schedule, where would they put her etc.) that the stress levels caused her body to stop the contractions.

Anyway, to get back on topic, if I didn't have the chance of being able to avail of a home birth I'm not sure that I'd be here in the Pregnancy forum, or 4 months pregnant, no matter how much I wanted a child.

How Strange

I've read that some hospitals have a 12hr labour and delivery schedule and if you're not keeping to it they will do everything medically possible to ensure you deliver.

From what I've read on other forums, in which there seems to be a consensus on this, you should stay at home for the early labour stage and only go in when the contractions get closer. Also when you get there don't get into bed if you don't want to because once you're there you'll be hooked up to a fetal monitor.

It's my first and I'm trying not to
be too idealistic or naive but I
want as natural birth as possible with as few medical interventions as necessary. It's my body and my baby and I've been told that I need to be quite assertive though not aggressive with the medical staff about this.

Also Ireland has become so litigious that hospitals are covering themselves legally at the expense of allowing birth to be a positive experience for mother and baby. Btw, I stand to be corrected on any or all of this as I'm still only reading up on everything so those who've been through it may disagree.

?Cee?view

vibe666 wrote: »

someone just posted this in the facebook thread i got it from and it's starting to sound more and more like BS to me.

"Irish hospitals are light years behind British ones in terms of natural birth - they still have the "partogram," and you fail to do 1cm an hour at your peril! Several friends have described being kept on the antenatal ward far longer than was good for them, because the MW know once they hit the labour ward, that clock starts ticking... there is a situation of women being protecdted from doctors by MW. Not good, not good at all."

since i don't actually know anything much about giving birth in ireland (since i'm not irish or a woman) can anyone comment on whether or not any of this sounds true?

That's definitely the case in Holles Street. They call it active managment of birth. The aim is to complete all deliveries within 12 hours and the progress is plotted on a graph. If progress slows, intervention (e.g. oxytocin) will be "encouraged". Without a doubt, and if lucky enough to get a good one, midwives are known to help mothers to manage the active management, but I simply do not believe that any of them would keep any mother on the antenatal ward any "longer than was good for them". That's inconceivable.

Cat Melodeon

It varies from hospital to hospital, and even within hospitals. I know women who were put up against the clock and were persuaded to agree to interventions that set them up for C-sections. My own experience of labour was midwife-led and extremely positive - although i was lucky enough to deliver within 4 hours of the first contraction. Possibly this was because the midwives just let me at it and never once suggested anything to me other than what I suggested myself. Lovely women, hope I have them again next time.