When You Fail

ballybunionlad

Hey I was on my 3rd set of Powercleans when I failed last night.


The first set was 60 kg * 6

The second was 62.5kg * 6

I failed the third set at 65kg.

(Yes I know it's relatively light to what some of ye might be lifting)


I've had fails before but just left it at that.

What I'm asking is should I make up for the failed set and go back later in the workout at a lighter weight or what should I do to make up for it

TommyKnocker

When I fail, I fail. Simple as. I don't go back later in the workout to the exercise I fail on.

Next time I am doing that exercise I do it at exactly the same weights. If I fail an exercise 3 times in succession, then I deload by 10% concentrate on form and start building back up again.

I also have fractional plates, so I can go up in jumps of .5kg (.25kg on each side of the bar). Sometimes I find these help if I get stuck at a certain weight.

Just my 2 cents


M

d'Oracle

6 is a lot of reps for cleans.

Penrose

B-Builder is right don't over do it. I would recommend reducing the max load by 25% and increase to a 5x5 program increasing by the smallest increments you can. Also when you are moving the weight back down try not to swing it back down like many people do.

ballybunionlad

Thanks B builder.

I'll try the same weight again the next night and if i fail I'll drop back. I don't want to drop below 60kg cos I'm pretty comfortable at that weight.

Is 6 really a lot? I only do 3 sets.


The reason I don't do the 5 * 5 is mainly because of time. If you take 2 mins rest between each set and if each set takes 1 minute. You're talking 15+ minutes for one exercise.

dartstothesea

B-Builder, when you say you have fractional plates, you mean they're your own and you bring them to the gym with you? Ha it just occurred to me now I could do the same. Might really help for some lifts, my gym's smallest are 1.25s.

I just read this, too:

wrote:

11. Train To Win, Not To Fail

A strength program is designed to improve the performance of the athlete. A strength program should not sap a fighter of his energy, hence sacrifice more important training objectives such as skill work and conditioning. Strength workouts should not leave the athlete sore for days, unable to properly function through sparring sessions and other skill based activities. Barbells and pull-up bars do not hit back. You will not learn how to fight in the weight room. A strength workout is only a small supplement to a much more complete training plan.

Strength workouts should be brief, focusing on quality over quantity. A fighter does not have time (or energy) for marathon strength training sessions. In addition, when training for strength qualities such as max-strength and explosive strength, the athlete should avoid training to failure. An athlete who constantly trains to failure will struggle to recover between workouts. Remember, the goal of the strength workout is to enhance strength and power without burning the athlete out. If your strength program is wearing you out, thus interfering with your sport-specific training, it is NOT contributing to your improvement.

One can better understand this concept by reviewing the importance of the central nervous system as related to strength output. The CNS is fatigued by any intense effort (from the standpoint of exerting a maximal force). It is often useful to envision the central nervous system as your control center. It sends a nerve impulse to your muscles. This impulse tells the muscle to contract. Your ability to generate force (how much force) depends on the electrical activation sent by the CNS (ex. number of motor units recruited). As fatigue mounts, your ability to recruit powerful motor units will decrease.

Tudor Bompa (5) describes fatigue as the body's way of protecting itself against damage to the contractile mechanism of the muscle. The nerve cells engage in a state of inhibition as a protection mechanism.

As for where fatigue is coming from, there is a nerve attachment on the muscle fiber. This attachment relays the nerve impulse to the muscle (this impulse is telling the muscle to contract). As you continue to work, there is an increased release of chemical transmitters from the nerve endings, which is thought to be one reason for fatigue.

If you continually train to complete failure, the CNS is naturally fatigued. It is no longer able to recruit (activate) powerful motor units. For this reason, you should avoid training to failure on a regular basis. The goal of training is not to completely exhaust the CNS. A fighter has more pertinent matters to tend to such as skill work and conditioning.

Consider an automobile engine for a real world example. If you allow your car to overheat every time that you drive, you will eventually blow the engine. You cannot drive full speed all the time without wear and tear on the engine. This simple analogy also applies to the body. Train for strength improvements, not failure.

I'm doing stronglifts and it tells me to rep until failure (at least 3 times!) on bodyweight exercise every workout (e.g. Pushups or Dips, Pullups or Chin ups, also Reverse crunches). This is concerning and I've been struggling to improve on the upper body lifts lately, anyone think I should avoid going 'til failure all the time like this?

TommyKnocker

dartstothesea wrote: »

B-Builder, when you say you have fractional plates, you mean they're your own and you bring them to the gym with you? Ha it just occurred to me now I could do the same. Might really help for some lifts, my gym's smallest are 1.25s.

Yep, I bought a set which I bring with me. My gym used to have magnetic fractionals, but these were always going missing, there was lumps gone out of them and they were so old the magnets were not that strong any more. Eventually they all vanished from the gym floor, so I got a set which fit on the Oly bar.

The set consists of

2 x .25kg
2 x .50kg
2 x .75kg
2 x 1kg


M

gstack

Your rep weights are too close together , 2.5kg is too small a jump for sets of 6

perhaps 55, 60, 65 would be better for you.

Why did you fail ?
Fatigue ?
Then you should take enough time between sets to recover sufficiently . You might also consider moving an explosive lift like a powerclean to the beginning of your workout iF you are not already doing so. You need to be as fresh as possibe doing these lifts.

ballybunionlad

gstack wrote: »

Your rep weights are too close together , 2.5kg is too small a jump for sets of 6

perhaps 55, 60, 65 would be better for you.

Why did you fail ?
Fatigue ?
Then you should take enough time between sets to recover sufficiently . You might also consider moving an explosive lift like a powerclean to the beginning of your workout iF you are not already doing so. You need to be as fresh as possibe doing these lifts.

Ya Powercleans then Deadlifts are my first 2 exercises so it wasn't fatigue.

I might try what you suggested with the 55, 60, 65. Its just that the 20 plates are a handy height for starting from the ground. If I drop to 55 I'll have to use 15's and it does make a difference in form. I think so anyway.

Colm_OReilly

Triples are generally a good number to use for Power Cleans, 3 x 3 or 3 x 5 on them. I'd also do sets across, so keep the same weight.

Hard to say why you failed on the cleans, so hard to say what you'd adjust. Was it a form error? Bad set up/first pull/second pull/catch? Might be time to deload or might be time to work on technique.

If you'd time on the day, drop by about 10Kg and work on technique. The weight should be light enough that you don't need to worry about missing the lift.

gstack

If the 15's are smaller than the 20's then I would probably do 2-3 sets of triples across @60kg and then do some doubles or singles @65kg trying to get the bar moving as snappily as possible. Colm is right in saying that triples and under are probably better for powercleans and exposive lifts in general

http://www.cathletics.com/exercises/exercise.php?exerciseID=67

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGESkE-GzUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Lq4Vrk3aM&NR=1

The above links are what you should be striving for in terms of form and bar speed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIsvP0FEeTo&feature=related

the last link is not what you want , even though the guy is brutally strong and fast:D

Powercleans are a fun lift to do !:D

Mellor

ballybunionlad wrote: »

The first set was 60 kg * 6

The second was 62.5kg * 6

I failed the third set at 65kg.

tbh, all this talk, of micro weights, deloading, reps/ets etc is all relevant.
But, maybe you should just keep it simple, and don't try to rush linear progression. Maybe, at the min, you are able for 62.5 but not 65. Do more sets at 62.5 so. You don't need to increase every rep

If it was me, i'd do 3 reps at 40-60kg to warm up then just 3 sets at the same weight.
62.5kgx6 x3 - You may not complete the third, next time try again.

When you can complete 3 sets, you should be able to do 65kg for the first set of 6. Work up to 3 sets.

You say its not fatigue, you'd be surprized the difference between trying a max set for the last and the start (after warm up)