May the country kindly bend over catch their ankles and receive what is coming...

twinytwo

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-2011-double-the-pain-2384774.html

Budget 2011: Double the pain
By Aine Kerr, Fionnan Sheahan and Maeve Dineen
Tuesday October 19 2010
THE hole in the Government's finances is heading for €15bn -- double the previous worst estimate -- and that means families face four years of savage spending cuts and tax hikes.
They will face four draconian Budgets because the economy is failing to recover in line with expectations.
The revelation emerged as opposition finance spokespersons were briefed yesterday on the challenges facing the Exchequer over the next four years.
Savage cutbacks of at least €10bn are definitely on the cards up to 2014.
But Finance Minister Brian Lenihan's officials disclosed the worst-case scenario was an adjustment of €15bn as a result of lower predictions on the rate of growth in the economy.
The Government is now under intense pressure to come clean with the public on the full scale of the Exchequer crisis. The deficit reduction will not be spread evenly over the four years -- and that means the worst hit will come in December.
Rather than a €3bn package of cuts and taxes, the adjustment will certainly be as high as €4.5bn and could break the €6bn mark.
Based on the worst-case scenario of a €15bn hole in the finances, if the Government wants to get the deficit below 10pc next year, it would have to make an adjustment of anything up to €7bn.
The Department of Finance's projections indicate economic growth may be as little as half the previous estimate, with the cost of servicing the national debt also rising.
The knock-on effect will be higher spending on social welfare and greater dependency on public services.

KungPao

I think I'm ready, I just hope they lube up.

The Aussie

i hope they dont ask me to squeal like a pig...

twinytwo

the funny thing is that those ***** in the government still claimed expenses while they were on hols.

Pookah

The tight-asses will feel the pain most.

curlzy

Maybe if we stopped bending over they'd stop ****ing us in the ass?

thebigbiffo

short, sharp and getting the big load out of the way first before going at you again...getting rode by the goverment, there's never much romance

Ush1

Nice thread title just above the catholic one.

pickarooney

What about if everybody just started charging less for everything? As in, from 1st January everything costs 10% of what it did previously. I can't see any flaws in this plan.

rua327

Ouch, straight in, no lube its a good thing I'm beginning to acquire a taste for Koka noodles :pac:

Mark200

pickarooney wrote: »

What about if everybody just started charging less for everything? As in, from 1st January everything costs 10% of what it did previously. I can't see any flaws in this plan.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not with the "I can't see any flaws with this plan".

orourkeda

Pookah wrote: »

The tight-asses will feel the pain most.

Indeed. Their spincters will be decimated. Still they may be surpised and enjoy their first experience of rough anal.

gazzer

Have the Department of Finance EVER got their estimates right? They never seem to have the correct figures.

Duggy747

gazzer wrote: »

Have the Department of Finance EVER got their estimates right? They never seem to have the correct figures.

I heard from my mother's brother's uncle's sister's fiance's nephew's monkey's aunt who knows the inside tracks says we owe €1685 quadrillion............and that we're changing from the Euro to potatoes as currency!

thebigbiffo

gazzer wrote: »

Have the Department of Finance EVER got their estimates right? They never seem to have the correct figures.

they're the dept of FINANCE....that term in itself practically defines lies and dodgy accounting by now. best changed to the department of whatever the ecb want imo

Gummy Panda

Up the bum, no harm done

Duggy747

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Up the bum, no harm done

Bar the occasional severe anal prolapse

Notorious97

KungPao wrote: »

I think I'm ready, I just hope they lube up.

Lube? You would be lucky if these pri*ks in government spit on it nevermind lube up

Mark200

Notorious97 wrote: »

Lube? You would be lucky if these pri*ks in government spit on it nevermind lube up

What's the difference?

stovelid

/Runs with prevalent AH zeitgeist and runs hands together thinking of further corrections in the property market and an abundace of cheaper houses as families get thrown out on the street.

thebigbiffo

stovelid wrote: »

/Runs with prevalent AH zeitgeist and runs hands together thinking of further corrections in the property market and an abundace of cheaper houses as families get thrown out on the street.

further AH responses to come:

we're all f'uckin screwed




em

i can think of any more

fakearms123

I have applied the vasoline to the rim and is ready to take the entire load in the anus!

Noreen1

If the current worst case scenario is currently placed at 14-15 Billion, then what will the "estimate" be next year? 30 Billion? Maybe 40?

Let's be realistic. If 14 Billion (say, 5 Billion this year?) is taken from low to middle income families, we will be in a depression well before 2014.

Meanwhile, we can afford up to 34 Billion for the super-rich Anglo bondholders, and a further 11 Billion in tax writeoffs for the super rich. (and I'm not talking about people who earn up to 150,000 a year, here!)

Seriously, you couldn't make this up in your wildest nightmares!!

Anyone who says FF/FG are centre right parties is seriously deluded. Their policies are extreme right. Savage the sheep to keep the lovely wolves in their cosy cartels.:mad: And we should be grateful to those wolves for stealing our futures.:mad::mad:

Well, I'm not grateful! I'm seriously ticked off!
Would all those groups who support justice, and equality in Ireland please get together, and form a political party.
There is room for a party who support the low to middle income families, right up to Small/Medium Enterprise owners. Responsible policies are needed like never before - we just don't have a political party who can/will implement them.
We do, however, have plenty of good people working in groups that seek social justice. It's time for them to get into politics!!

Noreen

bnt

pickarooney wrote: »

What about if everybody just started charging less for everything? As in, from 1st January everything costs 10% of what it did previously. I can't see any flaws in this plan.

Got a job? If so, your salary is a cost to your employer. Fancy getting paid 10% of your current salary? If you take one zero off of all costs, then nothing changes, just the numbers.

If there was a time for "protests", it was five or so years ago, when people lost their financial sense and bought in to the property bubble. If there was ever going to be an argument that "the people" as a group were wiser than the government or bankers, that was the time to make it, by not buying in to the hype. That was how I "protested" - by staying away from it all.

After how "the people" acted in the last decade, please don't try and tell me "people power" is the answer today. You, "the people", were stupid then, and I have no reason to believe you're any wiser now. The politicians are a mere reflection of the will of the people: you broke Ireland, and now you own it.

mikom

I wish I could tell you that Paddy Irishman fought the good fight, and the FF sisters let him be.
I wish I could tell you that, but Ireland is no fairy-tale world. He never said who did it...but we all knew.
Things went on like that for a while. Irish life consists of routine, and then more routine.

Every so often, Paddy Irishman would show up with fresh bruises. The FF sisters kept at him. Sometimes he was able to fight them off... sometimes not.
He always fought, that's what I remember.
He fought because he knew if he didn't fight, it would make it that much easier not to fight the next time.
Half the time it landed him in the infirmary... the other half, it landed him in solitary. Warden Harneys "grain & drain" vacation. Bread, water, and all the privacy you could want.

judestynes

pickarooney wrote: »

What about if everybody just started charging less for everything? As in, from 1st January everything costs 10% of what it did previously. I can't see any flaws in this plan.

It would seem that the retailers are the only ones who are doing anything to help out with the way things are, finally they're being a bit more realistic in the pricing. Now why couldn't they do this during the tiger years. Perhaps then we'd all have a bit more moolah in the bank so that we could spend our way out.

mickydoomsux

Meh. Saw this coming. We've been a low tax economy for so long that it had to be adjusted upward so we could have a proper un-inflated economy like the rest of the normal EU countries.

I work in public transport and we've been told to expect about 10% of a cut in wages/hours around budget time along with whatever the Dept of Finance has planned. Annoying, but i'll be ok because i had it pretty good for so long and i was always 'waiting for the other shoe to drop' so i have a decent amount of savings.

th3 s1aught3r

I wouldnt believe any of those estimates or what figures they come up with. Last years budget we were told at the time would be the end of the pain. Then we had estimate after estimate of the cost of the banks bailout, all wrong.
I dont trust any of the self serving filth in government or finance departments

Noreen1

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I wouldnt believe any of those estimates or what figures they come up with. Last years budget we were told at the time would be the end of the pain. Then we had estimate after estimate of the cost of the banks bailout, all wrong.
I dont trust any of the self serving filth in government or finance departments

+1. We were told it was going to be the cheapest Bank Bailout in History.
I've lost count of the number of times we've "turned the corner".

Every single "estimate" produced has been seriously flawed.

At this point in time, two years after the crash, the only thing "Joe Public" knows for sure is that the super-rich are going to be protected - at all costs!
Neither we, nor our children, matter one jot to the people we elected to serve us. (I did not vote for FF, by the way.)
All that matters is tugging the forelock to bondholders, and our EU overlords.
I don't know about anyone else, but I feel that I am being treated like a serf - and I don't like it one little bit!:mad:

We used to live in a society where social justice and equality were aspired to, alas, no longer.:(

I've always believed Capitalism was good for the economy. I still believe that SME's (Small/Medium Enterprise) will be the foundation on which Ireland will be re-built - but not if they are taxed into the ground, and denied working capital by the very banks they are being heavily taxed to bail out.
Neither can SME's survive if Joe Public has no disposable income, which is precisely the route our Government seems determined to take.

We need a party that puts people first - people being the Irish citizens - not the Golden Circle.

If it was possible to create such a party, would you support it?
I would!

Noreen

twinytwo

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I wouldnt believe any of those estimates or what figures they come up with. Last years budget we were told at the time would be the end of the pain. Then we had estimate after estimate of the cost of the banks bailout, all wrong.
I dont trust any of the self serving filth in government or finance departments

And we were told voting yes to lisbon was good for us
contraception was evil
Bertie wasnt crooked
and bono was god........

see how these things go

Snakeblood

Noreen1 wrote: »

We need a party that puts people first - people being the Irish citizens - not the Golden Circle.

If it was possible to create such a party, would you support it?
I would!

Noreen

Not that we shouldn't try, but as soon as people get into power they start doing tiny favours for people in the locality and larger favours eventually, till you get a cesspit of hateful evil like Fianna Fail. And people still vote for them.

We need to redraw the electoral map so doing a favour for one family doesn't really help your reelection. Not even in the largely inbred areas.

That and get past the GPO idea of political allegiance.

twinytwo

Snakeblood wrote: »

Not that we shouldn't try, but as soon as people get into power they start doing tiny favours for people in the locality and larger favours eventually, till you get a cesspit of hateful evil like Fianna Fail. And people still vote for them.

We need to redraw the electoral map so doing a favour for one family doesn't really help your reelection. Not even in the largely inbred areas.

That and get past the GPO idea of political allegiance.

Im sure we could find a few honest people who would actually put the country and its people ahead of themselves and their chums...

thanks Mr. Haughey:mad:

ascanbe

Noreen1 wrote: »

+1. We were told it was going to be the cheapest Bank Bailout in History.
I've lost count of the number of times we've "turned the corner".

Every single "estimate" produced has been seriously flawed.

At this point in time, two years after the crash, the only thing "Joe Public" knows for sure is that the super-rich are going to be protected - at all costs!
Neither we, nor our children, matter one jot to the people we elected to serve us. (I did not vote for FF, by the way.)
All that matters is tugging the forelock to bondholders, and our EU overlords.
I don't know about anyone else, but I feel that I am being treated like a serf - and I don't like it one little bit!:mad:


We used to live in a society where social justice and equality were aspired to, alas, no longer.:(

I've always believed Capitalism was good for the economy. I still believe that SME's (Small/Medium Enterprise) will be the foundation on which Ireland will be re-built - but not if they are taxed into the ground, and denied working capital by the very banks they are being heavily taxed to bail out.
Neither can SME's survive if Joe Public has no disposable income, which is precisely the route our Government seems determined to take.

We need a party that puts people first - people being the Irish citizens - not the Golden Circle.

If it was possible to create such a party, would you support it?
I would!

Noreen

The reason that all the 'estimates' we've been fed over the last few years have been so ludicrously inaccurate is that they were not real estimates at all.
They were simply lies, designed to keep the public docile/compliant while the government pushed through the grand heist that is the Anglo bailout/Nama.

PeterIanStaker

Ush1 wrote: »

Nice thread title just above the catholic one.

Govt and RCC have a lot in common - they rape you and then deny it.

judestynes

Whats needed now is a political party that doesn't do politics, sounds strange but it's the best way forward and serious changes to the political structure of the state. No politician can serve more than 6 years in public office, no matter how good at their job they are. That would eliminate the possibility of becoming jaded or corrupted. Also a cap on earnings by public officials, no TD earns more than €35,000 no minister more than €50,000 including the Toiseach. The best way to keep a thing pure is to remove money from the equasion.

Noreen1

judestynes wrote: »

Whats needed now is a political party that doesn't do politics, sounds strange but it's the best way forward and serious changes to the political structure of the state. No politician can serve more than 6 years in public office, no matter how good at their job they are. That would eliminate the possibility of becoming jaded or corrupted. Also a cap on earnings by public officials, no TD earns more than €35,000 no minister more than €50,000 including the Toiseach. The best way to keep a thing pure is to remove money from the equasion.

That would work in the sense that it would remove the "career" politicians who "serve" solely because they get well paid.

Unfortunately, it would also ensure that we ended up with yet another second-rate, under-qualified group of people to represent us, since our brightest and best would hardly be happy to work for that salary. Right now, imo, we need our brightest and best.

For too long, we have had political dynasties. It's time we realised that we need people who are qualified for the job. People who are qualified for the job does not include someone with a degree in social studies as Tanaiste, or someone qualified in Legal Studies as Minister for Finance..........

We also need to elect people from a diverse range of backgrounds, to ensure understanding of how ordinary people live.
For years, we have elected people from privileged backgrounds, because people on an average industrial wage do not have the money to stage an election campaign as an Independent candidate. Therefore, they either do not enter politics, or get sucked into the party "machine".
Therefore, the vast majority of Irish people are represented by people who have no real concept of how the decisions they make on our behalf affect us...........

The six year rule would ensure that we had a constant stream of inexperienced people to represent us, which would leave us at a severe disadvantage on the International stage........though I take your point about jaded politicians.:)

What we need in the forthcoming budget is some common sense.
If substantial amounts are removed from the income of the vast majority of the citizens - then the SME's will fail.
SME's are acknowledged as the lifeblood of employment in this Country.
It's that simple - yet I doubt if anyone in the Dept. of Finance truly understands that!:mad:

Noreen

judestynes

@ Noreen.

I disagree with your opinion of the 6 year rule, I doubt any td was elected straight out of college, most have put work in at grass roots level and there are many very committed local politicians who give their time freely because they believe in their cause as such have gained valuable experience. I do see your point of course that on the international stage experienced politicians are whats required but in the immediate future Ireland and the Iirsh really need to dig their own patch first. You have an excellent point about SME's which unfortunately I think will be ignored by those in office, as number crunchers do have a tendency to look at what things cost instead of what they make.
Whats missing most from the political elite is a sense of fear. I do believe they feel they have nothing to fear from the population in general. Even if they lost their seats in goverment ..... so what. It's not like they'll be left penniless. They'll be well looked after with an excellent state pension if if they ran their departments into the ground.

Noreen1

judestynes wrote: »

@ Noreen.

I disagree with your opinion of the 6 year rule, I doubt any td was elected straight out of college, most have put work in at grass roots level and there are many very committed local politicians who give their time freely because they believe in their cause as such have gained valuable experience. I do see your point of course that on the international stage experienced politicians are whats required but in the immediate future Ireland and the Iirsh really need to dig their own patch first.

Whats missing most from the political elite is a sense of fear.

Re: the six year rule. I think perhaps the electorate needs to be less naive about repeatedly voting in the same party, rather than running the risk of removing good representatives from office.
My local representative was elected to the County Council, if not directly out of College, certainly within a year or two. He became a TD at the next election.....

In fairness, I may despise the party he represents, but he is hard-working, and committed to the Community.( Nevertheless, I will not vote for him, because of the party he represents.)

Be that as it may, my point about Politicians needing to be qualified for the job stands.
Your local politician may be an excellent teacher/social worker/whatever. That does not qualify them to run a small company, much less a country, any more than I would dare to presume that I could walk into a classroom and teach 20-30 children.

I firmly believe that a Minister for Finance needs a background in Economics. Ideally, some experience in Business Management would help a lot, too.
Likewise for Minister for Agriculture/Marine/etc.
There is no earthly point in asking someone to be Minister for Agriculture who has never set foot on a farm - and so on.

We need people who understand the issues - and that is precisely what we do not have. We will never have truly representative, and effective Government, until the Electoral process is revised.
There are many good people in this country, who would make superb public representatives, who are prevented from presenting as candidates because of the enormous cost of election campaigns. That needs to change - but it will never happen unless the public demand it. The current system favours the Party faithful too much for any party to seriously consider changing it.

I agree with your point about digging our own patch first - but I would tend to dig very deep - and root out all the weeds, before re-sowing the patch.:D

+1 on your point about politicians not having any sense of fear.
The system favours them so much that there is no real competition outside of existing parties.
If we can change that, then we can really move forward, into the type of society that the electorate need and deserve.
JMO.

Noreen

gizmo

You should all come over here to the UK, I hear everything is fine right now...:pac:

gerrycollins

judestynes wrote: »

@ Noreen.

I disagree with your opinion of the 6 year rule, I doubt any td was elected straight out of college, most have put work in at grass roots level and there are many very committed local politicians who give their time freely because they believe in their cause as such have gained valuable experience.

I agree with what you are saying about the local TD starting from the ground up and been a hard working local representative however when push comes to shove each TD is still answerable to the whip even the independants can be bought in a time where the national interest should come above the local.

Also when they lose the whip they retain their seat however you will find mostly they will vote with their party. that to me is not democratic its the TD looking after no 1 themselves.

@Noreen some of your points are very well made however some points made liken me to think that your idea will in reality turn into a communist view point where the country is ran by a committee of directors experienced in each of their fields and we the shareholders have little input at the end of the day(no difference to the current situation)

I think politicans should man up but seriously they should only recieve a basic but attractive salary but have to save up like you and me for their own pension which should transfer out when they lose their seat etc just like you and I in the real world if we change jobs etc. That might make them work better and harder.

they need to reduce the amount of TD and quangos basically look at their own house first becasue now worst than you or I they went a bit crazy in the boom years and now should cut back as much as the rest of us if not more to show leadership.

judestynes

The sense of fear I referred to is, even if they lost their seat... so what. They still have a big fat pension, even if they did the worst ever job while they had a seat or even a portfolio. Or a td or councilor, once ousted for being completley rubbish or corrupt get still find themselves with a nice cushy seat in the seanad. Theres no accountability, million upon million of taxpayers money wasted on tribunals when every Joe Soap knew who was getting what from who and the only jail time doled out was for contempt of the court. The goverment has completely lost touch with exactly who works for who. It's high time the people of Ireland stood up and reminded the government who their bosses actually are. Their bosses are us, we should decide how much they earn, when their holidays are, where they need to go on"government business" Their positions exist to provide for the people, the people don't exist to provide them with a position. Theres a huge difference between "governing" and "ruling".

The main reason I thought about a finite public life of any elected representitive would be to prevent corruption. If a public official, say perhaps a county councilor or even a td, six years isn't long enough to build up cosy business relationships with big business but it's long enough to achieve personal goals or get started on better services for constituents and a successor can finnish.

Noreen1

judestynes wrote: »

The sense of fear I referred to is, even if they lost their seat... so what. They still have a big fat pension, even if they did the worst ever job while they had a seat or even a portfolio. Or a td or councilor, once ousted for being completley rubbish or corrupt get still find themselves with a nice cushy seat in the seanad. Theres no accountability, million upon million of taxpayers money wasted on tribunals when every Joe Soap knew who was getting what from who and the only jail time doled out was for contempt of the court. The goverment has completely lost touch with exactly who works for who. It's high time the people of Ireland stood up and reminded the government who their bosses actually are. Their bosses are us, we should decide how much they earn, when their holidays are, where they need to go on"government business" Their positions exist to provide for the people, the people don't exist to provide them with a position. Theres a huge difference between "governing" and "ruling".

+ 1000

judestynes wrote: »

The main reason I thought about a finite public life of any elected representitive would be to prevent corruption. If a public official, say perhaps a county councilor or even a td, six years isn't long enough to build up cosy business relationships with big business but it's long enough to achieve personal goals or get started on better services for constituents and a successor can finnish.

I am absolutely in favour of stamping out corruption. And a six year rule would certainly help in this regard. But it would also have the disadvantages I mentioned earlier.

Just off the top of my head:
Maybe a better solution would be to set up a Government watchdog, accountable to the public, whose members had a finite contract? Say, 1 year training, followed by 2-3 years "on the job"? Possibly staggered so that general elections were held midway through the watchdogs contract of employment?

Fair enough, we might find ourselves in a situation where an election was held early - but even if that were the case, it would still work out cheaper to pay the extra years salary, than the situation we now find ourselves in.

I know that solution could end up problematic, but it would at least be preferable to the situation we find ourselves in now, and could be fine-tuned over time.


Noreen

judestynes

Thats another excellent idea, I wouldn't limit that watchdog to just the goverment, also cover judges, county councilors top civil servants. I think you should run for office... I'd vote for you.

Noreen1

:eek::eek: I have absolutely no interest in running for political office!:D
But thanks for the compliment.

Noreen

phill106

We definitely need a new political party. Elect people who are skilled. Some expert economist for dept of finance. A business mogul in charge of enterprise etc.

judestynes

phill106 wrote: »

We definitely need a new political party. Elect people who are skilled. Some expert economist for dept of finance. A business mogul in charge of enterprise etc.

Hand the reigns over to Micheal O'Leary you mean:eek::eek::eek::eek: