MG - Head Gasket

RoadKillTs

Hey lads,

Head gasket went in my car (no surprises there) and the mechanic has rang and said there is no point in him fixing it unless he can get a modified steel gasket from Rover.

He said it will be gone again in a few weeks if he doesn't use the right gasket?

Anyone know anything about this?

I mean I knew about the HGF issue with this model but I just presumed it could be fixed.

Edit: Could I just not buy this and get him to fit it? Link

Look at the amount sold!!

krissovo

I have the same head gasket in my MG ZR 1.8 and have so far had 26,000 miles of trouble free motoring since fitting. If these were on as standard then the engines would have had a trouble free life!

RoadKillTs

Hey krissovo,

Thats good to hear. I will suggest to the mechanic that I can buy one and he can fit it.

Be sure that he diagnoses any other related issue too, ie water pump, rad or inlet manifold gasket.

Max Power1

The steel gasket is a much better option if refitting. Much less prone to failure

shamwari

There's a revised head set which includes steel gasket, stronger bolts, and revised sump ladder. It is necessary to fit all of these because the new gasket is torqued tighter than the previous one, and those foot long head bolts go all the way through the block and tighten into the ladder. I would not fit a steel gasket on its own.

RoadKillTs

Thanks lads for the advice. Waiting on the mechanic to get back to me.

RoadKillTs

The garage got back to me and said they have a mechanic that can do it and it will cost 450 inc parts (sounds good) but he said he reckons theres only a 50% chance of it not happening again. (doesn't sound good).

Anyways have to get it done regardless.

If the head is fine and they use the upgraded gasket there is no reason it should go again. More than 50% of them don't fail at all from new I would think. Any idea of the root cause ? Was it overheating or losing coolant for a while before a terminal overheat ?

I'd get a different mechanic really, the lad you are talking to seems a numpty.

johnos1984

The gasket didn't go on its own.

I'd check the inlet manifold gasket as this is an area prone to failure letting the coolant leak out.

Get the uprated kit and fit EVERYTHING it generally successful, also get the head skimmed for a good finish.

Its also a good time to do the timing belt and waterpump as the engine will be stripped anyway.

RoadKillTs

Cheers James. Might have to.

@ John

The timing belt and water pump were both replaced a few months ago.

johnos1984

RoadKillTs wrote: »

The timing belt and water pump were both replaced a few months ago.

In that case assuming there hasn't been many miles covered you should be ok.

While your at it check coolant pipes and the radiator for age related wear as there is no point doing the HG if there are weak pipes needing replacement as if they fail you'll end up doing it again (or worse scrapping it)

They are a great engine when working and when looked after so happy motoring when its all done

dunsandin

The rover k series have a very small coolant capacity, and letting it get even a little low can be v bad. Because the coolant system is only just capable, you need to keep the whole system in tip-top condition and really be on top of your maintenance. The newer modified gasket includes longer headbolts that pass down through the block and bolt into a supplied carrier plate that sandwiches the head down better on the block and is apparently a permanent cure. A Rover technician at a recent technical think in said the fault was entirely with the user not maintaining the system properly, and not a design flaw-bull, its a flawed engine, but the newer replacement gasket/bolt kits do the job. In MG's, the mid-engine position makes the coolant system even more critical. New wp, new gasket, good coolant and fan/rad in good nick are very important.

dunsandin

dunsandin wrote: »

A Rover technician at a recent technical think in said the fault was entirely with the user not maintaining the system properly, and not a design flaw-bull, its a flawed engine, but the newer replacement gasket/bolt kits do the job.

Not really bull though, the rate of HG failure that is not due to an issue with the coolant system is very low, not nil but low. Fitting the improved head gasket and running it on low coolant allowing it to overheat will still warp the head if it's cooked enough. I've had a K series on 130K miles with the original HG (not uprated one) and it was perfect (engine wise) when I parted with her She did have a leaky water pump for a while but I never cooked her

mathepac

johnos1984 wrote: »

The gasket didn't go on its own...

On Rover K series engines they do, they are notorious for it, hence the reason Rover produced a kit including a new design of head gasket to rectify their poorly designed piece of automotive engineering crap engine.

johnos1984

mathepac wrote: »

On Rover K series engines they do, they are notorious for it, hence the reason Rover produced a kit including a new design of head gasket to rectify their poorly designed piece of automotive engineering crap engine.

:rolleyes:

And every French car is a piece of crap*

The engine was a world leading design when it was launched for lightness and power from a single unit in its class.

Most HGF in the engine happens because of neglectful owners or mechanics who don't understand the unit

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

On Rover K series engines they do, they are notorious for it, hence the reason Rover produced a kit including a new design of head gasket to rectify their poorly designed piece of automotive engineering crap engine.

Anyone who genuinely reckons the K series is a piece of automotive engineering crap really knows sweet f all about cars or else is a total and utter f**ktard, so take your pick :cool: New design of head gasket doesn't rectify folks ignoring a rising temp gauge.

The folks at Lotus and Caterham know a thing or two about engines me thinks :pac:

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

or mechanics who don't understand the unit

or mechanics who put a new head gasket on it without fixing the root cause, inlet manifold gasket in many cases

dunsandin

The K series is not a crap engine, its just fragile, and most of its fragility is derived from a lack of development, which stemmed from a lack of funds for development. With just a tad more engineering, it would have been brilliant. The same goes for Fiats FIRE engine - a true design classic, but compromised by a dedication to least cost production.

Webmonkey

RoverJames wrote: »

or mechanics who put a new head gasket on it without fixing the root cause, inlet manifold gasket in many cases

True and pity, as the inlet manifold gasket is so easy to change esp when the head off.

dunsandin

dunsandin wrote: »

The K series is not a crap engine, its just fragile, .

Very well put

unkel

dunsandin wrote: »

The rover k series have a very small coolant capacity, and letting it get even a little low can be v bad. Because the coolant system is only just capable, you need to keep the whole system in tip-top condition and really be on top of your maintenance. The newer modified gasket includes longer headbolts that pass down through the block and bolt into a supplied carrier plate that sandwiches the head down better on the block and is apparently a permanent cure.

Well said! We all recognise the design problem, but as johnos1984 pointed out, the K-series was a very innovative, lightweight and free revving engine. Well over 100BHP from a 1.4l petrol engine about 20 years ago was pretty good going compared to the mere 75-80BHP some manufacturers produce out of their 1.4l petrol engines today

dunsandin

Anybody who ever drove an 800 series rover could never descibe the marque as crap. The 75 is a beautiful design also, but Rover always was underfunded and overstretched, just as they got it almost fully together they ran out of dough. The unions did them no favours either. Anyone remember when the sd1 came out? It was the "must have car". Sadly, it was crap:DStriking motor though.

johnos1984

dunsandin wrote: »

Anyone remember when the sd1 came out? It was the "must have car". Sadly, it was crap:DStriking motor though.

My SD1 was great but I found out later on it was built during a QA inspection day.

Not many of them happened though

dunsandin

johnos1984 wrote: »

My SD1 was great but I found out later on it was built during a QA inspection day.

Not many of them happened though

I remember when my friends dad got one brand new, oh the excitment, oh the leaks, oh the towtrucks! Looked very radical though, I still love the look and that long, sweeping bonnet.

johnos1984

dunsandin wrote: »

I remember when my friends dad got one brand new, oh the excitment, oh the leaks, oh the towtrucks! Looked very radical though, I still love the look and that long, sweeping bonnet.

My gaskets started to weep after a long hot trip to Cork.

I never had a break down but going through the 5 pages of service history I understood why.

It was serviced ever thousand miles or so.

Such a nice car and I will have one again.

And that bonnet...............well when you accelerate and brake you will understand what pitch and dive is

Loved it though, I got far more attention then any boy racer could

mathepac

RoverJames wrote: »

...
The folks at Lotus and Caterham know a thing or two about engines me thinks ...

Ah yes well-designed reliable Toyota engines as "options". :rolleyes:

johnos1984

mathepac wrote: »

Ah yes well-designed reliable Toyota engines as "options". :rolleyes:

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyone who genuinely reckons the K series is a piece of automotive engineering crap really knows sweet f all about cars or else is a total and utter f**ktard

mathepac wrote: »

Ah yes well-designed reliable Toyota engines as "options". :rolleyes:

The fog thickens :pac: