Airport Police / Fire questions

Terrontress

Following on from some of Alpha Papa's excellent posts and pictures from the airport, I got wondering about the follwing:

You showed a picture of a Dennis fire appliance and referred to it as "domestic". Is this the appliance which would, for example, react to a fire in the departures area instead of one of the big six wheeled vehicles which would deal with a burning plane? I'd imagine the skills are very different. I'd also think that driving one of those six wheelers and being trained to enter a burning 737 is more prestigious than a role in DFB but the opportunity to put your training in to practise thankfully rarely occurs in the airport.

Is it the same guys who would put out either fire or are there two differently trained teams?

I also notice that there are vehicles such as Avensis as well as smart looking Discoverys. Given the amount of grassy areas airside, I presume that the Discos are for that work? Obviously an Avensis cannot go off paved areas. Is that the reason for having them? Again, is it a separate crew who would deal with airside policing than someone dealing with a lad stealing a bottle of duty free?

I have no reason to want to know this other than to satisfy my own curiosity.

Terrontress

I can 100% see the need for the airside fire service, given how technical it is. I'm sure driving one of the appliances is some craic. It looks like a lunar rover!

I am surprised at the need for the domestic element to be airport specific as I'd imagine the requirements are as dfb. Places like universities do not have their own fire service and, while there are a lot fewer people than at the airport, a lot of the risks must be the same.

That is not to take away from the job that the airport domestic firefighters do, which I'm sure is professional.

Alpha Papa

"fire service" means a service provided in accordance with Chapter 9 of Annex 14 of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) for response to emergency situations involving aircraft and for first response to emergencies in aviation related facilities at an airport

Above taken Airport Byelaws 1994

Each airport authority or regional airport have to have there own on site fire sevice to obtain there aerodrome licence from the IAA this is all in accordance with the ICAO Annex's in this instance an Airport Authority must have a fire service which can:

A. Respond to emergency situations involving aircraft

B. First response to emergencies in aviation related facilities at an airport


(aviation related facilities means a entire airport campus etc.. i.e the need for domestic appliance due to the size of Dublin Airport first response to the campus fires along with/or to put out a one pump stop to DFB appliances if they do not need to attend if AFRS S/O is happy etc..

Obviously due to DFB much larger resource pool and experience in this area (Building fires) aswell requirements under the Fire Services Act 1981 DFB being the local authority fire service and licencing agency) they will attend take command in serious domestic incidents as per agreements and MOU and use AFRS units as assists.


Some stats for you.

Dublin Airport is transport hub, its basically a mini provincial town.

There over 700 bus journeys daily to and from Dublin airport.

On Peak 60000-80000 passengers a day use Dublin airport think of the amount of motor vehicles both taxies and private cars utilising the campus roadways.

Aviation fuel depot is located in Dublin Airport.

There are many office blocks located here with almost 15000 staff employed directly in the airport that's a lot of toaster fires!

Cargo facilities manage many flamable goods aswell hazardous materials (HAZMAT)

Did you know that the AFRS has its own HAZMAT unit.

The airport by its nature attracts every type of person some of them at intent at causing trouble/nuisance and in past arsonists have paid visit to airport. It's a real threat and hence the need for domestic appliances also.

The difference between a university which i know you only used as example is a lot as seen above, its a hard comparsion but airport is better compared to a busy provincial town any where around the country.

ivabiggon

i have to say i've worked many of times with the airport fire service in my career and have the height of respect for what they do...even though the principle of fire fighting between the DFB and the airport fire service are technically the same their techniques and priorties are totaly different.....but.... if it was possible i would like to see an inter xchange between the airport and the DFB.
one....so the airport lads get a bit more exposure to real domestic incidents and RTA's, and try cut the edge of the training regime..as per say, because....and we all do it...in a training scenario there is a total different approach to incidents than real life; i'm talking of RTA's rescues and fires...and i'm sure it's the same in AGS.
the airport fire service already turnout with the DFB on the ambulances in their paramedic intership so why not do it from a fire and rescue side.

and two... their are alot of DFB would benefit from doing a shift or two with the airport lads to show them the real risks and responsibilities surrounding the airport as a small city and fill them in on their capabilities and expertise...but most of all....alot of our lads that have been promoted up through the ranks with very little fire fighting experience and alot of acedemic information from books and previous educational experience and are only too willing to throw around the "i'm the local authority fire service and i'm in charge and this is the way it's going to be done" s***e.. and to be quite honest this is embarrassing and show incompetence... and believe me i've seen it.

so in my humble opinion as a regular fireman and paramedic of close to 20 years and not an officer there is a huge scope here to be improvement.

Elessar

All of what AP has said is true. One major reason an airport needs its own fire service is because the regulators (ICAO and ECAC) have set the standard for response times to fire emergencies in an airport - no longer than 3 minutes. That would be an impossible response time for the DFB 99.9% of the time.

Also, after the catastrophic dusseldorf airport fire in 1996 an agreement was reached between the DFB and APFS that the DFB MUST respond to every fire alarm activation in the airport along with the APFS. Two tenders and a DO if I'm not mistaken. Activations happen a lot in T1 due to the nature and age of the building, but the DFB respond to every one regardless.

sdanseo

Well when I worked in the Airport I had to call on them once.

There are many benefits to having this service in house. When I called them, it was for a bin fire as alerted to me by a member of the public. Not a very big deal, but one that needed dealing with. I radioed it in to Airport Fire rather than DFB and thus

1. Didn't call a DFB unit from Swords for something that only needed a quick dousing of water (but, in the opinion of the Airport Police Officer with me at the time, still needed Fire Brigade attendance).
2. Got a quicker response than waiting for DFB
3. DAA didn't have to pay FCC €500-1000 for the privelige of 10 minutes' work.

Makes financial, practical and operational sense to have a couple of landside (not domestic) tenders available. There are a lot of buildings, a lot of cars, a lot of flammable materials and not forgetting thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in the Airport complex at any given time. One DFB tender stationed 4km away doesn't really cut it.

It's common practice around the world too, with similar operations in the UK.

@ Terrontress' question about whether the same lads deal with airside policing as the "lad stealing a bottle of duty free", the answer is no, there would be no difference. Unless a Garda is nearer, APS and APFS are the first and normal line of response, fire, rescue, police or medical, in the Airport and even its environs. Any detained suspects in a crime are handed over to An Garda Síochána in due course.

airfield

I bet this is unknown to most but the Airport Police have unwarranted access even without owners consent to any lands even if there not owned by the Airport/DOT to investigate any incident or threats involving any aircraft. This power comes from Section 19 of the ANTA (Amendments) 1998.

This is a genuine question. The above refers to an authorised person. Is there a difference between an authoised person and an authorised officer
Sec. 2 states:
“authorised officer” means—

(a) a member of the Garda Síochána,

(b) in relation to a State airport—

(i) a person, or a person belonging to a class of persons, authorised in writing by the company to perform the functions conferred on an authorised officer by or under this Act or the Act of 1988, or

(ii) unless and until the Minister otherwise determines under subsection (4) of section 48 , a person who immediately prior to the commencement of this section was an authorised officer within the meaning of paragraph (b) of the definition of authorised officer in section 15(1) of the Act of 1950 (as amended by section 25 of the Act of 1988), or

(c) in relation to an airport in the State, other than a State airport, a person, or a person belonging to a class of persons, authorised in writing by the Minister to perform the functions conferred on an authorised officer by or under this Act or the Act of 1988;

“authorised person” means a person appointed in writing by the company to perform the functions conferred on authorised persons by or under this Act;

Actual Paramedic

Nothing in law though to state the airport needs an ambulance service though?

I am with Ivanbiggon on this, the service should be a statutory run system with rotation of staff from the airport and another station. The AGS could run the airport police if given the extra funding and manpower

deadwood

Didn't take long for the airport police - "are they or aren't they" - question to arise!

Are the airport firemen real firemen?:D

ivabiggon

i was only promoting closer training and skills swaps etc.
i never said DFB should take it over either ambo or fire side.
having said that i wouldn't mind getting in there close to retirement and seeing my last 5 years out on the airport side.

i know this has been trashed out somewhere else.
but looking from the outside i would think it would be a good idea to have the airport police on the same stature as AGS all in the same uniform and same powers, a bit like the british system. but i think that would involve setting up another sub section like the traffic corp ie. transport police with equal powers.
AGS already have the us of air laws at there disposal.
it's a bit to confusing particularly from a first time visitors point of view into the country.