Unfair claim against Driver

milos

Hi Am new to this forum but I have to get some advice on this situation.
Over 18 months ago my wife had a very very minor fender bender with another car.
Nobody was hurt ,no damage to my car, slight damage to their car i.e badge, paint ect.
Have just found out that my insurance company paid them €82,888.39.
have seen the medical report on the driver of the other car which clearly states that she did not recieve any phsycal or mental injuries after the crash.
How did my insurance company come up with this amount and can I do anything against this false claim

Milo ANNOYED

coylemj

That's a pretty hefty settlement for your insurance to pay out considering the medical report said that she didn't suffer any significant injuries. Short answer to your question is 'no', you can't do anything about it if as you say the money has already been paid out, it's their money but of course you can be prepared for an increase in premiums for the next few years and don't bother shopping around when your policy comes up for renewal, nobody will give you a quote.

Can you enlighten us...

1. How did you get to see the medical report?

2. Did you get a civil bill to sue you in the courts or did the insurance company settle with no pending civil court case?

3. What was your take on liability - was it all your wife's fault or did you claim in your report to them that there was blame on both sides?

x in the city

80k wtf

please do tell more...

Trampas

that is how insurance is high in ireland.

recession and comp culture kicks in

djimi

Did you ask your insurance company to detail what they paid out for? If no medical claims were involved then the only way they could justify that kind of money is if she wrote off a Ferrari or something...

mondeo

I'd be looking for a break down of costs....Go to the insurance ombusman and possibly investigate it if the insurance are refusing to give any out info to you. that claim sounds ridiculous!

My sister got run over by a car 2 years ago and she only got 30k and she was flung about 20 ft up the road with multiple injuries... And this one gets 82k :rolleyes:

Bonito

WTF? That has to be wrong? Did you have your no claims protected? If not, prepare to be raped in every possible way! They'll go as far as nasal penetration!

milos

My insurance company have sent me a new type of motor renewal form that lists all claims on my insurance.
In the small print I seen that they had paid out this hugh amount on 23rd january 2006
My no claims is now at 75% but this is the first time I have seen the amount paid out.
In regards to her medical report a copy was sent by her solicitor with a SMALL claims court summons about 3 months after the incident.

Ps The car was an 04 mondeo with previous heavy damage to the rear.
My car was a 2005 ford Focus 1.6. The "crash" did not even dent the paint on my car.
PPs. She drove her car home after the event

coylemj

You said in the original post that the accident happened 'over 18 months ago', if the insurance company paid 83K to someone in January 2006 it would have been in respect of an accident that happened in 2005 or even earlier, that's five years ago minimum.

If they had paid that kind of money to someone, you'd have noticed your premium skyrocket at the next renewal but now you're saying you only became aware of it when you looked at the list of claims outlined on your current renewal document - doesn't add up, probably a misprint.

Absurdum

with all due respect, we only have one side of this here, you need to contact your insurance company with these questions

milos

I knew my initial insurance would increase and it did. It doubled to nearly €1500.
But I knew I would have to pay the extra for the coming years, i was working, things were good so I was able to cope without questioning the extra premium.
But that is not my point.
I am outraged to find out only now what the insurance paid this woman.
Today with a smaller car I am paying €550 for my cover.
My only complaint is that I had no input in the claim against me or the result

squod

80 grand. I konow which insurance company it wasn't so :rolleyes: Has to be more to this story

Jet Black

milos wrote: »

My insurance company have sent me a new type of motor renewal form that lists all claims on my insurance.
In the small print I seen that they had paid out this hugh amount on 23rd january 2006
My no claims is now at 75% but this is the first time I have seen the amount paid out.
In regards to her medical report a copy was sent by her solicitor with a SMALL claims court summons about 3 months after the incident.

Ps The car was an 04 mondeo with previous heavy damage to the rear.
My car was a 2005 ford Focus 1.6. The "crash" did not even dent the paint on my car.
PPs. She drove her car home after the event

Small claims has a max payout of 2000 euro?

cadaliac

coylemj wrote: »

You said in the original post that the accident happened 'over 18 months ago', if the insurance company paid 83K to someone in January 2006 it would have been in respect of an accident that happened in 2005 or even earlier, that's five years ago minimum.

If they had paid that kind of money to someone, you'd have noticed your premium skyrocket at the next renewal but now you're saying you only became aware of it when you looked at the list of claims outlined on your current renewal document - doesn't add up, probably a misprint.

Nah, same sort of thing happened me. It took 2 years to sort out. When I went to move insurance companies, it was then that I found out how much the other party was paid.
Actually it was a similar situation, but not on the same scale. I ran into the back of someone in heavy traffic at engine idle speed.
They managed to squeeze €16,500 from my insurance company.
The reason that I didn't find out the first year that my policy was up for renewal is because the case was still pending. So, on to the second year and so forth.
When I found out about the pay out, I contacted the insurance fraud line and reported it.
I really do not want to put the OP off but I was told "Well, if the insurance company have paid out already, there's not much we can do".
Well, aside from the colorful language and ranting and raving, I still fail to see what the insurance fraud line is actually there for.
In other words, I was supposed to be like mystic meg and predict the amount just before the ins company paid out, and inform the ins fraud people - just before they paid out. That way we can all sleep soundly. Pr1cks!
Anyway, regardless of my situation, yours surely will be looked at. FFS, €80k for someone who drove away........WTF?
Our country is full of people who will just take take and take some more unfortunalely. It is our duty to try and stop this bullsh1t.
OP - bring this all the way and keep us posted please. I personally regret that I didn't get a PI to follow the claimaint for a few weeks.
BTW, The Ins company would NOT release the medical report to me and asked " do you have his name and address?" Which I did not, I lost it, but I told them that I did.

!

x in the city

for scaldanlous libel such as this could the op not take the insurers to court..?

seems absurt to the extreme to get raped like that

coylemj

We can all blow hot air on this and like everyone else I feel there was a scam perpetrated on the insurance company by the claimant but as I pointed out in an earlier post, it was the insurance company's money and if they decided to hand over a big cheque there isn't really much the OP could do about it.

What's peculiar is that they must have handed over the cash without the other party even instituting a civil claim through the courts as the OP didn't seem to get any kind of court documents so it's a mystery how the other party managed to successfully spin a sob story to squeeze so much money out of the insurance company. For that level of money you'd expect that the other party would kick off a claim through the courts, normally insurance companies don't hand over that kind of money unless the driver they are covering gets sued, otherwise as far as they are concerned it's a nuisance claim and they offer peanuts to get rid of you.

Our man in Havana

The insurance fraud line is a joke. It is only a PR tool for the insurance companies.

Nonoperational

Jesus i got a fair whack in the rear bumper stopped at a roundabout and I only asked her for €180 to repaint the bumper! And she was doing at least 10/15 mph. IF there was an 80k payout then that actually really pisses me off.

Frelance

When exactly was it?
If its longer then 3 years ago so you dont even have to list it to some insurers
alot of money for something that appears so minor an accident though.
If you contact your insurer in writing they should be able to give you a breakdown of the costs to see were all that money went!

oldyouth

milos wrote: »

My only complaint is that I had no input in the claim against me or the result

I can't believe that your insurers settled any claim without your input such as a claims report, interview, declaration etc. The outcome from those must have led them to believe that further legal process would not, on probability, result in a better outcome. The amount awarded would then have been based on their experience in dealing with the medical facts presented to them.

Sounds crappy all the same

milos

I intend to approach my insurance company on Monday to enquire about this amount.
If I can take further action against this claim I intend to.
Will keep you posted...

Voodoomelon

My first thought was if there was absolutely no damage done to the OPs car, I completely fail to see how any kind of damage or injury could possibly be worth €80,000. Unless that little tip knocked her of the edge of a pier.

L1011

Per the IIF code of conduct, an insurer is to inform you of all stages of a claim. Clearly this one didn't...

Our man in Havana

Many don't. I could name a few.

djimi

I suppose there is always the outside change that this is a typo/clerical error and it should read €828.39...

Just out of interest, if the accident was as small and the damage was as minimal as you say it was why bother involving the insurance company at all?

guil

djimi wrote: »

I suppose there is always the outside change that this is a typo/clerical error and it should read €828.39...

Just out of interest, if the accident was as small and the damage was as minimal as you say it was why bother involving the insurance company at all?

i reckon ur on the money with the typo, theres no way they would only increase the premium to 1500 if they paid out 88k

op the premium you're paying now is still relatively cheap, i'm 24 witha full licence and 6 years ncb on a 05 1.4 focus i'm paying 530

Esel

coylemj wrote: »

You said in the original post that the accident happened 'over 18 months ago', if the insurance company paid 83K to someone in January 2006....

Do the sums again.

milos

To all that were following this post here are the settlement figures from my insurance company.
First. damage to her car = €3,000
damage to my car = there was none
Second, Whiplash?? = €39,525
Third, Legal and investigation fees = €40,363

Grand Total = €82,888

Insurance apologised for not letting me know sooner but it was only settled this year.
THIS IS WHAT FRAUD COSTS ALL OF US

bazzachazza

milos wrote: »

To all that were following this post here are the settlement figures from my insurance company.
First. damage to her car = €3,000
damage to my car = there was none
Second, Whiplash?? = €39,525
Third, Legal and investigation fees = €40,363

Grand Total = €82,888

Insurance apologised for not letting me know sooner but it was only settled this year.
THIS IS WHAT FRAUD COSTS ALL OF US

Thought you said she suffered no physical or mental injury ? So why did they cough up for whiplash ?

No wonder at age 33 my ****ING premium is still going up !!!!!!!

You still can't do anything about it milos. I suspect your premium might be going up again in multiples.

Nonoperational

What a disgraceful claim. Disgraceful and annoying.

Zubeneschamali

oldyouth wrote: »

I can't believe that your insurers settled any claim without your input such as a claims report, interview, declaration etc.

Happens all the time. Happened to me.

Zubeneschamali

milos wrote: »

Second, Whiplash?? = €39,525
Third, Legal and investigation fees = €40,363

Whiplash symptoms can show up long after the accident, and after someone is initially cleared as uninjured. No doctor will swear in court that someone is lying about whiplash pain, as it can't be proven. So insurance companies usually just pay up, it's cheaper than defending a case in court and losing.

I surprised by the 40K legal costs, if they just caved in day one, the claim would have been halved.

Alun

milos wrote: »

First. damage to her car = €3,000
damage to my car = there was none
Second, Whiplash?? = €39,525
Third, Legal and investigation fees = €40,363

Actually, that last bit in bold concerns me too. Ambulance chasers the lot of them.

listermint

Thats pretty discraceful.

Its the ridiculous culture that has crept in here from the US and its only getting worse. Everyone wants something for nothing. People dont have a concience anymore.

My father was crashed into by a drunk driver last year. The guy was pissed drunk and was driving his young friends car. She was a passenger.

They wrote of my fathers car as the were doing about 80k and hit the rear of him he was doing about 50k.

he claimed 3 days off work to visit the doctor and refused to even look for any additional from the job or the insurer. Different times... If it was the woman involved in this case probably would have doubled that figure.:mad:

PCPhoto

milos wrote: »

To all that were following this post here are the settlement figures from my insurance company.
First. damage to her car = €3,000
damage to my car = there was none
Second, Whiplash?? = €39,525
Third, Legal and investigation fees = €40,363

Grand Total = €82,888

Insurance apologised for not letting me know sooner but it was only settled this year.
THIS IS WHAT FRAUD COSTS ALL OF US

she/he got 40K for a minor accident ..... bit excessive

it is possible to suffer whiplash (soft tissue injury) from a minor tip/shunt ....but at most this would result in a few months of discomfort (approx €5-10K ...maybe €15K at a stretch in Civil Court)

Legal and investigation fees - while I personally think legal fees in this country seem excessive - I'd wonder if there is a breakdown of who earned what ..... investigation fees would require an assessor to view the damage to the car/area of accident (they're generally €300 per hr - but you can find cheaper) - engineers report ??? would have cost a bit - if it was needed, I just cant understand where the fees come from - legal/investigation ....if there was no opposition by insurance company there was limited proof needed - I'm guessing the insurance company didn't fight the case....doctors fees/visits ...physio (doc is min €50 per visit, physio the same.... even if the person visited the physio twice a week for a month they wouldnt have been a bill this high)

was there any loss of earnings ? not trying to raise doubt here but is there any chance the person involved with the accident is related to someone in the insurance company and/or was coached and/or has a history of motor accidents.

there are a lot of serial claimers out there - waiting for you to do the inevitable.

I dont want to change the topic - but when I was a kid and fell while playing football and injured myself ...it was MY FAULT ....ITS PART OF GROWING UP !!!
- these days....when a kid falls playing football and is injured...
it "MUST" be the ball...
or a hole on the pitch which shouldn't be there,
or the kids studs were loose and this was the reason why he/she was unbalanced.
or there was no proper supervision (assuming playing with a club at the time)

either way - parents these days look for an excuse to sue so they have a nice "nest egg" for their kid - which they take a slice out of "for the kid"

Declanm5000

Im not surprised by the settlement amount.
I had an accident in 2004. Was only settled last year. The 2 women involved were not seriously injured. One was a claim freak and had previously made 3 claims (Toymaster for falling, Local Council for tripping on a path and someone else). I had a witness to her saying that she was "going to get al she could out of me". I reported this to the insurance company but obviously nothing came out of it.
Found out last year that the cost of the claim amounted to a little over €150,000.00 (Their car was worth about €1,000.00 - 1994 Astra hatchback) My Audi was not covered fully comp as I had recently bought it and had not upgraded to fully comp so I had to live with the €12,000 car loan and the increased premium in excess of €2,000 per year for 5 years.
So where the figure of €150k came out of I will never know but I know something, and it is small consolation, the thieving claimant will never have any luck and I wish her all the bad luck in the world.
So its the norm for this country. No wonder its on its knees.

Viper_JB

Hi op, this would make a really good article for a news paper, you should contact a few in your local area and explain the situation to them, only way to highlight the situation and maybe get something done.

Zubeneschamali

Viper_JB wrote: »

Hi op, this would make a really good article for a news paper.

But it's not news! It happened to me in 1990, it happened to other folks before that, and it's been happening all the time since.

Viper_JB

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But it's not news! It happened to me in 1990, it happened to other folks before that, and it's been happening all the time since.

Ya I know sure same thing happened to my brother in the 90's, giving somoene a lift home from college, in a minor accident on the way back and he claims of my brothers insurance for whiplash gets in the area of 15k...scumbag. Could do with a bit more attension, something may get done if enough people are high lighting the issue.

djimi

There is something very wrong with the system in this country is someone can get away with €40k in damages from what sounds like a nothing accident.

Perhaps the answer is to take the legal process out of the hands of the insurance companies. They cover the costs but you appoint your lawyer/solicitor to represent you, and the cases are dealt with properly in court and given the attention they deserve. Perhaps if people thought there was more effort involved and insurance companies couldnt just pay them to go away then they might not be so quick to make fraudulant claims.

Triangle

Lads you seem to think this is the insurance companies fault.......Do you think they want to give away the money?

The managers in my place are reviewed on their savings in cases (yes I work in an Ins. company)

The problem is with the legal system - there is no common sense, just black and white.
Just look at all the developers declaring themselves bankrupt while hiding assets in their wives names!

Anyway - just think a bit of perspective is needed.

kippy

Jaysus,
Seriously, this really highlights the issues in this country with compensation and insurance as well as our costs to get these types of things settled.

Now,
I have absolutely NO problem with people who genuinely get injured as a result of some one elses mistake and this injury either causes them discomfort or a loss of earnings in some manner. Yes, these people should be compensated. But it really is gone beyond a joke.90K settlement, 150k settlements - jaysus.

I've been involved in a few scrapes, went into the back of some German tourists a good number of years ago (totally my fault) they were driving a brand new rented car, cost me 2K to get sorted - just paid for the car no issues with injuries, I was worried for ages after that they would claim for more - fair play to them they didnt.
Since then I've had a number of incidents (2) where people have rear ended me.
I've gone out of my way to get the cheapest quotes possible to get the car back to normal as I feel that is how I would like to be treated should the same happen me (as did when I did actually go into someone)

There are some people out there who have no conscience, no human decency and will screw their fellow human being for as much as possible.

kippy

Triangle wrote: »

Lads you seem to think this is the insurance companies fault.......Do you think they want to give away the money?

The managers in my place are reviewed on their savings in cases (yes I work in an Ins. company)

The problem is with the legal system - there is no common sense, just black and white.
Just look at all the developers declaring themselves bankrupt while hiding assets in their wives names!

Anyway - just think a bit of perspective is needed.

Perspective yes, I agree.
However there are serious issues with the costs of certain claims and indeed the fees requried to settle these claims in this country.
Instead of helping to fix the issue they carry on paying out. You know why? Because they pass the costs on to ALL of the people they insure to recoup it.

Zubeneschamali

kippy wrote: »

Instead of helping to fix the issue they carry on paying out. You know why?

If it was cheaper to defend every case, then an insurance company which defends cases aggressively would have lower costs and hence higher profits. Soon they would all do it. But in cases like the one above, where the total award is just a few tens of thousands, legal costs mean its cheaper to settle out of court.

In the case above, legal costs were 40K, the same as the actual award to the "injured" party, and they didn't even go to court.

Go to court on every iffy claim, and you can multiply the legal costs by 10. Even if you win most times, you end up paying more money total.

milos

Little bit more
Since that "accident" my cars has been rear ended twice
Both very minor
One caused €900 damage. The second €400
Repaired both without going through insurance companies
or claiming fake injuries.
People who caused these accidents were genuine and did not deserve to be ripped off.
I hope what goes around comes around

Zubeneschamali

BTW, if you are worried about your insurance company giving away money, you can opt to defend yourself: just write to the insurance company telling them under no circumstances to pay out any claim on your behalf, that you'll defend it yourself.

Of course then you have to pay the €40K award and €100K legal fees yourself when you lose.

kippy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

BTW, if you are worried about your insurance company giving away money, you can opt to defend yourself: just write to the insurance company telling them under no circumstances to pay out any claim on your behalf, that you'll defend it yourself.

Of course then you have to pay the €40K award and €100K legal fees yourself when you lose.

So people.
Why dont you just come out an say it:
Legal fees are too high in this country to justify calling the bluffs of the people involved.
Is is that or is it:
The laws in this country facilitate fraud.


BOTH of these are surely good reasons for insurance companies to try change things.