ISP's Locking down Internet Content IRELAND

mikerowsopht

So we all know that this is going to happen sooner or later and I know in some cases it's happening already on a very small scale....
both in Ireland & other countries within the EU

ISP's locking down the Internet, telling you what websites you can or cannot look at.

They will block downloading of Music and Torrents & P2P applications. It's just a matter of time before the internet we know of today disappears.

In the future all you will be able to do is view legitimate corporate or government websites, check the weather, search google and check your bank account.

Obvioulsy although it could be implemented tomorrow if needed be it will be a long time down the road ( hopefully )

For Example Eircom have already blocked access to thepiratebay as a starter

So how long do you think it will be before ?

P2P apps disappear
torrent clients and torrent sites disappear
Porn Sites disappear to get moved to the new .xxx domain
& basically the entire Internet getting locked down

You cannot block the whole Internet but Ireland has a very limited amount of ISP's and if only 1 court hearing goes the wrong way or the law gets changed all the ISP's would have no choice but to block certain content.

As I work in IT I know all the ways around this problem but I also know that even the ways around can also be blocked so..............

NothingMan

The filesharers and porn peddlers are and always will be well ahead of the isp's. Nothing will change significantly.

Mark200

Any source, no?

Edit - Oh wait you're just rambling about nonsense.

loike

hippy

Helix

Wont happen, too much money to be made for the isp who doesnt do it. Almost a 100% market share there for the taking. OP is just scaremongering reactionary rubbish, esp in light of the upc win

lazyQuestions

necessity breeds invention, if they keep charging what they charge some genius in japan or china will find a way to sort it out.

Gone Drinking

mikerowsopht wrote: »

As I work in IT I know all the ways around this problem

Real penis > E-penis

Amhran Nua

mikerowsopht wrote: »

So we all know that this is going to happen sooner or later

My bum it will happen. Eircom is already losing floods of customers over their three strikes policy, and rightfully so, and the courts have said that UPC can tell the music industry to take a hike. Its as inevitable as we let it be. The continuation of safe harbour provisions for ISPs are the only way forward.

kirving

You work in IT? Right...

Not going to happen, ever.

Scuid Mhór

it would never happen under my watch.

mikerowsopht

Kevin Irving wrote: »

You work in IT? Right...

Not going to happen, ever.

I disagree, I think it will happen eventually, not soon but eventually.
Obviously I am in the same boat as you guys and don't want this to happen.

When cars first came out there was no traffic, no traffic lights, no speed limits, no drink driving etc etc...

Like I said all it would take is 1 big court case to win and if it comes to law then the ISP's won't have a choice.

If it happened all they would have to do is block the ports the program uses, block all torrent and porn sites and block all web proxy sites.
It could be done, don't think it couldn't.
All that's stopping this from happening is law.
It could also be done at the route of where all the isp's get their connection from.

obvioulsy I would purchase broadband account in Switzerland and do all my "downloading" there and then download what I've downloaded over there to my connection using an encrypted FTP connection or something like that.

The reason I started this thread was because of this one which really pi$$ed me off. Bono ur crap anyway

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056061844

But No I don't agree with any of it. But IT WILL happen

2 yrs
10 yrs
50 yrs

it will happen

NothingMan

mikerowsopht wrote: »

it will happen

No, it won't.

Amhran Nua

mikerowsopht wrote: »

But No I don't agree with any of it. But IT WILL happen

2 yrs
10 yrs
50 yrs

it will happen

It really depends on who you think will last longer, the European Parliament or the music industry.

mikerowsopht

NothingMan wrote: »

No, it won't.

yes it will...
...
..
eventually
all good things come to an end

Scuid Mhór

mikerowsopht wrote: »

I disagree, I think it will happen eventually, not soon but eventually.
Obviously I am in the same boat as you guys and don't want this to happen.

When cars first came out there was no traffic, no traffic lights, no speed limits, no drink driving etc etc...

Like I said all it would take is 1 big court case to win and if it comes to law then the ISP's won't have a choice.

If it happened all they would have to do is block the ports the program uses, block all torrent and porn sites and block all web proxy sites.
It could be done, don't think it couldn't.
All that's stopping this from happening is law.
It could also be done at the route of where all the isp's get their connection from.

obvioulsy I would purchase broadband account in Switzerland and do all my "downloading" there and then download what I've downloaded over there to my connection using an encrypted FTP connection or something like that.

The reason I started this thread was because of this one which really pi$$ed me off. Bono ur crap anyway

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056061844

But No I don't agree with any of it. But IT WILL happen

2 yrs
10 yrs
50 yrs

it will happen

right. because even if a law as ridiculous as that was passed, nobody would protest against it?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I'm sure all the IT heads will be able to stay ahead of the game but as for the average joe internet user like me, I'm not so sure.
If it's too difficult I can't be arsed

smash

mikerowsopht wrote: »

They will block downloading of Music and Torrents & P2P applications. It's just a matter of time before the internet we know of today disappears.

They can't really do this. Not all torrents are illegal.

mikerowsopht wrote: »

In the future all you will be able to do is view legitimate corporate or government websites, check the weather, search google and check your bank account.

And Porn

mikerowsopht wrote: »

For Example Eircom have already blocked access to thepiratebay as a starter

Really that was just to shut up the whingers, you can still access thousands of other torrent sites.

mikerowsopht wrote: »

P2P apps disappear
torrent clients and torrent sites disappear
Porn Sites disappear to get moved to the new .xxx domain
& basically the entire Internet getting locked down

It will never happen.

mikerowsopht wrote: »

As I work in IT I know all the ways around this problem but I also know that even the ways around can also be blocked so..............

Then you'll also know that what you're afraid of will never happen.

mikerowsopht

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

right. because even if a law as ridiculous as that was passed, nobody would protest against it?

don't reckon so, we didn't protest when the banks lost Ireland over 30 billion

I don't see why anyone would protest over this or anything else in this country becoz the Irish are lazy & yes I am Irish & yes I am lazy

mikerowsopht

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerowsopht
They will block downloading of Music and Torrents & P2P applications. It's just a matter of time before the internet we know of today disappears.

They can't really do this. Not all torrents are illegal.

Quote: Ye I know they're not all illegal but 99% of them are
Originally Posted by mikerowsopht
In the future all you will be able to do is view legitimate corporate or government websites, check the weather, search google and check your bank account.

And Porn

Quote: porn will get moved into the newly setup .xxx domain although only blocked at the parents request. Much easier to block a domain as opposed to invdividual websites and meta tag data
Originally Posted by mikerowsopht
For Example Eircom have already blocked access to thepiratebay as a starter

Really that was just to shut up the whingers, you can still access thousands of other torrent sites.

Quote: You can access them for now, enjoy them while you can. ThePirateBay was just for starters. I am waiting on the main course and dessert
Originally Posted by mikerowsopht
P2P apps disappear
torrent clients and torrent sites disappear
Porn Sites disappear to get moved to the new .xxx domain
& basically the entire Internet getting locked down

It will never happen.

Quote: it will eventually but hopefully we will both long be dead before that happens
Originally Posted by mikerowsopht
As I work in IT I know all the ways around this problem but I also know that even the ways around can also be blocked so..............

Then you'll also know that what you're afraid of will never happen.

Pyr0

NothingMan wrote: »

The filesharers and porn peddlers are and always will be well ahead of the isp's. Nothing will change significantly.

God bless these men.

smash

@mikerowsopht - learn how to quote replys properly, I can hardly read that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Don't care, not in Ireland.

fergalr

Sometimes I think with the standard of discussion you sometimes get on the Internet, blocking it mightnt be a bad thing...



mikerowsopht:

I think you are right to be concerned.

I'd like to think that if something awful like the Holocaust was going on today in a country like Germany, someone would leak the details on the Internet; and it wouldn't come as a shock to the world - and arguably to most germans - years later. Maybe people would have stopped it sooner.



This leaking could happen, because the Internet was designed in a very open way, largely due to an accident of history. The core protocols were written by researchers (often grad students), rather than business people, or government departments. It just got much bigger than the people funding it ever thought it would.

We now have this global communications medium that anyone can put content on, with no filtering or control. That is pretty remarkable, and was a hugely democratising change. Previously, if you wanted to put your message where a lot of people could see it, you needed enough resources to get on TV. Now, you can just upload to youtube.

There is no central control hierarchy that first approves your content.
That is a huge shift. It has changed how politics works, how discussion works, how we relate to each other - it is a large social force. With an open internet, its much harder for people in dodgy regimes to get away with dodgy things, without anyone knowing. The traditional model of many dictatorships where you can control the flow of information and hide the bad **** going on, is now much harder.

Clearly there are bad sides. People have a vehicle to distribute things they really shouldn't. I'd like to think that the good outweigh the bad, and that when you make humans more free to express themselves, you'll get more good expression than bad expression.



That said, there are a lot of interest groups that don't like an open internet.

It fundamentally clashes with the political worldview of media moguls like Rupert Murdoch. Guys like that set out to put a strangehold on the flow of information. They don't want to acquire 1 newspaper, or TV station, to get across their point of view - they want to own them all, so that the only point of view available is their own.
And guys like Murdoch then use this influence, to alter politics.

This isn't a conspiracy theory - its just how business works in a lot of countries - look at the UK headlines before general elections, for example.


Anyway, interests like big media moguls don't like the open internet, at all. The recording industries, likewise.

Many of these groups were caught off guard by how quickly the internet grew and gained popularity.
They've been trying to catch up, and to find a strategy to force it to be regulated. Their first few strategies failed, but they are adapting and learning. They are well resourced and smart, and are gaining ground.

The recent '3 strikes' case of UPC was a setback, in an Irish context; but the fact is that '3 strikes' legislation is slowly being adopted across Europe. One of the main Irish ISPs (Eircom) has adopted it. This is a real move towards a regulated internet.

People that don't see this as a big change, or that write this straight off, are, frequently, muppets. Most people are frogs easily boiled.


It is quite possible that the business interests in favour of an open Internet will win out against those against. But its not at all a foregone conclusion. So far, the recoding industries have proven very effective lobbyists; Murdoch style media moguls certainly know that game too.



From a technological point of view, as long as you can get an encrypted (or steg'd) channel out to an arbitrary IP, you can establish a dark net. It is pretty much impossible to stop this, with the current architecture of the Internet.
However, you can and can't do theoretically, technologically, doesn't matter as much as what the average use is able to do.


Its probably possible to filter the internet enough, in practice, that Joe Bloggs uses a fully regulated internet. Really, thats what the discussion must hinge on.


Things might be fine, maybe business interests that want an open internet will outweigh the ones that don't. But its worth keeping an eye on. The enactment of the 3 strikes laws aren't a good start.

fergalr

Oh, and Bono writing his f**king platitudes like his does is a hypocritical, self-interested, uninformed, sock puppet.

He should listen to his mate, Kofi A. Annan:

To defend the Internet is to defend freedom itself.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/04/AR2005110401431.html

Duggy747

Seems to me someone has been tooting too much on the ol' wacky tobaccy and reading Orwell's 1985 too much.

There's the same chance of me pulling Jennifer Connelly as this happening.....................it could in 2, 5, 10, 50 years......................but it never will.

bobbytables

This comes back to the age old security problem. The security process cannot ultimately stop anybody from doing anything forever, it can only do so temporarily at best.

If you put a wall up in front of me today, and what's behind the wall is of enough value to me to try and get to it, I will try. If many people are in the same boat, they can work cooperatively to gain momentum. So your wall might stop me/us from getting to what is of value today, but given enough time and energy, either the wall will be knocked or a way around it will be found. Another wall will be erected and the cycle starts again, and it will never stop.

This cyclical pattern is not new, nor does it only apply to IT.

I also work in IT, and agree that the Web has spiraled out of control in terms of content. I'd imagine that Tim Berners Lee recognized the potential of what he started in a technical sense, but unless he was was chronically addicted to porn himself, he wasn't going to predict the distribution & caliber of content, as content is only a variable in the equation.

Hmmmm, unless....

Saila

the world would break if the intertube stopped working as normal, let me know when they you think the sky is due to fall on our heads.

Celly Smunt

i could only imagine that this would damage income on the side of the isp and increase profit in the entertainment industry.

good move for isp?-no
possibility of isp's implementing this?-very very very very very small

put your business head on

mikerowsopht

But its worth keeping an eye on. The enactment of the 3 strikes laws aren't a good start.

Couldn't agree more

Saila

pmcmahon wrote: »

put your business head on

ontop of the tinfoil hat or

Aldebaran

I'm downloading the internet right now, just in case.

dlofnep

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3804

mikerowsopht

pmcmahon wrote: »

i could only imagine that this would damage income on the side of the isp and increase profit in the entertainment industry.

good move for isp?-no
possibility of isp's implementing this?-very very very very very small

put your business head on

My business Hat is on and I completely agree with what you are saying.. However if the Music Industry pushed enough in relation to copyrighted material and illegal downloading that will open the door for the law to be changed regarding the Internet.

Once the laws are changed ISP's will have no choice regardless of whether or not they loose business.

Once that door is opened all hell will break loose in the future

Celly Smunt

mikerowsopht wrote: »

My business Hat is on and I completely agree with what you are saying.. However if the Music Industry pushed enough in relation to copyrighted material and illegal downloading that will open the door for the law to be changed regarding the Internet.

Once the laws are changed ISP's will have no choice regardless of whether or not they loose business.

Once that door is opened all hell will break loose in the future

however,the music industry is now heavily based on the internet,to damage a marketing medium that you can use for pretty much free marketing is just silly-ness at best,it won't happen

fergalr

pmcmahon wrote: »

i could only imagine that this would damage income on the side of the isp and increase profit in the entertainment industry.

good move for isp?-no
possibility of isp's implementing this?-very very very very very small

put your business head on

Put your own business head on.

The ISPs, in general, obviously aren't going to do this voluntarily. No one is saying that.

If they do it, it'll be because of laws resulting from political lobbying. Lobbying by the entertainment industry, by traditional media (ask Rupert Murdoch how much he likes the open Internet, and services like Google News), and other interests - even Telcos.

Lobbying by managers of bands like U2 writing opinion pieces in national newspapers.


ISPs are not good at lobbying, they don't have the experience. They just aren't in the same ballpark of financial scale as the companies lined up against them.
That's why we see streams of bills aimed at restricting internet access, rather than ones aimed at guaranteeing it, and why we don't get ISPs writing opinion pieces in their favour.

minidazzler

In fairness, if it was all banned, back to usenet, get your stuff there.

Use Tor, takes longer but mostly untraceable except at exit nodes.

Use Freenet, again, a bit slow, but it would work.

Nothing can stop the changes that have happened or the progress that continues to be made! Save global thermonuclear war because joshua doesn't like naughts and crosses.

iPlop

This is basically about the internet turned into the "sky" type brand.Fully regulated and if you want the good stuff you will have to pay for it.The "freeview" internet will be third party outdated and slow and possibly blocked in areas.



Google-Verizon Deal: The End of The Internet as We Know It

Email Comments 3,287
For years, Internet advocates have warned of the doomsday scenario that will play out on Monday: Google and Verizon will announce a deal that the New York Times reports "could allow Verizon to speed some online content to Internet users more quickly if the content's creators are willing to pay for the privilege."

The deal marks the beginning of the end of the Internet as you know it. Since its beginnings, the Net was a level playing field that allowed all content to move at the same speed, whether it's ABC News or your uncle's video blog. That's all about to change, and the result couldn't be more bleak for the future of the Internet, for television, radio and independent voices.

How did this happen? We have a Federal Communications Commission that has been denied authority by the courts to police the activities of Internet service providers like Verizon and Comcast. All because of a bad decision by the Bush-era FCC. We have a pro-industry FCC Chairman who is terrified of making a decision, conducting back room dealmaking, and willing to sit on his hands rather than reassert his agency's authority. We have a president who promised to "take a back seat to no one on Net Neutrality" yet remains silent. We have a congress that is nearly completely captured by industry. Yes, more than half of the US congress will do pretty much whatever the phone and cable companies ask them to. Add the clout of Google, and you have near-complete control of Capitol Hill.

A non-neutral Internet means that companies like AT&T, Comcast, Verizon and Google can turn the Net into cable TV and pick winners and losers online. A problem just for Internet geeks? You wish. All video, radio, phone and other services will soon be delivered through an Internet connection. Ending Net Neutrality would end the revolutionary potential that any website can act as a television or radio network. It would spell the end of our opportunity to wrest access and distribution of media content away from the handful of massive media corporations that currently control the television and radio dial.

So the Google-Verizon deal can be summed up as this: "FCC, you have no authority over us and you're not going to do anything about it. Congress, we own you, and we'll get whatever legislation we want. And American people, you can't stop us.

This Google-Verizon deal, this industry-captured FCC, and the way this is playing out is akin to the largest banks and the largest hedge funds writing the regulatory policy on derivative trading without any oversight or input from the public, and having it rubber stamped by the SEC. It's like BP and Halliburton ironing out the rules for offshore oil drilling with no public input, and having MMS sign off.

Fortunately, while they are outnumbered, there are several powerful Net Neutrality champions on Capitol Hill, like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Henry Waxman, Jay Rockefeller, Ed Markey, Jay Inslee and many others. But they will not be able to turn this tide unless they have massive, visible support from every American who uses the Internet --- whether it's for news, email, shopping, Facebook, Twitter --- whatever. So stop what you're doing and tell them you're not letting the Internet go the way of Big Oil and Big Banks. The future of the Internet, and your access to information depends on it.

Author's note: Notice how a company can change their tune in the name of profitmaking. From Google in 2006: "Today the Internet is an information highway where anybody - no matter how large or small, how traditional or unconventional - has equal access. But the phone and cable monopolies, who control almost all Internet access, want the power to choose who gets access to high-speed lanes and whose content gets seen first and fastest. They want to build a two-tiered system and block the on-ramps for those who can't pay."

The After Hours Troll

Mark200 wrote: »

Any source, no?

Edit - Oh wait you're just rambling about nonsense.

It shows up when you actually edit smartarse.

Teutorix

The After Hours Troll wrote: »

It shows up when you actually edit smartarse.

Not within a certain time-frame smartarse

mikerowsopht

fergalr wrote: »

Put your own business head on.

The ISPs, in general, obviously aren't going to do this voluntarily. No one is saying that.

If they do it, it'll be because of laws resulting from political lobbying. Lobbying by the entertainment industry, by traditional media (ask Rupert Murdoch how much he likes the open Internet, and services like Google News), and other interests - even Telcos.

Lobbying by managers of bands like U2 writing opinion pieces in national newspapers.


ISPs are not good at lobbying, they don't have the experience. They just aren't in the same ballpark of financial scale as the companies lined up against them.
That's why we see streams of bills aimed at restricting internet access, rather than ones aimed at guaranteeing it, and why we don't get ISPs writing opinion pieces in their favour.

Thank you, someone that has actually read what I have said regarding : ISP's won't do this voluntarily but if the laws change then the door is opened it will be kicked wide open

Thank you for your advanced english explaining what I can't as I am dyslexic and can't explain myself that well

The After Hours Troll

Our internet history, personal details etc is already kept under file. The FBI and CIA have easy access to this information, they can track our every move. They have no jurisdiction here, but by damn the ***** can make jurisdiction.

The After Hours Troll

Teutorix wrote: »

Not within a certain time-frame smartarse

He's outside that time frame brains.

Celly Smunt

The After Hours Troll wrote: »

Our internet history, personal details etc is already kept under file. The FBI and CIA have easy access to this information, they can track our every move. They have no jurisdiction here, but by damn the ***** can make jurisdiction.

why would i give to ****s about the CIA and FBI?



nice troll btw

KevinVonSpiel

OP is clearly a visionary/prophet... all who say he's full of meadow mayonnaise are the kind of flat earthers who reject the thoughts of all great thinkers before later adopting those views as your own.

We're reading the thoughts of someone who's been to the top of the mountain.

Yet you do not heed his dire warnings.

Ye make me sick.

Celly Smunt

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

OP is clearly a visionary/prophet... all who say he's full of meadow mayonnaise are the kind of flat earthers who reject the thoughts of all great thinkers before later adopting those views as your own.

We're reading the thoughts of someone who's been to the top of the mountain.

Yet you do not heed his dire warnings.

Ye make me sick.

:pac:

The After Hours Troll

pmcmahon wrote: »

why would i give to ****s about the CIA and FBI?



nice troll btw

Cross the line or threaten America and you will care. Typing "I w-a-n-t to bmb d u-s" (forgive my phrasing) in proper language into google, will put you on a CIA watch list.

Teutorix

The After Hours Troll wrote: »

Cross the line or threaten America and you will care. Typing "I w-a-n-t to bmb d u-s" (forgive my phrasing) in proper language into google, will put you on a CIA watch list.

Awesome, im going to try.

bobbytables

Teutorix wrote: »

Awesome, im going to try.

/get's popcorn & stands by :P

fergalr

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, if it was all banned, back to usenet, get your stuff there.

Use Tor, takes longer but mostly untraceable except at exit nodes.

Use Freenet, again, a bit slow, but it would work.

Nothing can stop the changes that have happened or the progress that continues to be made! Save global thermonuclear war because joshua doesn't like naughts and crosses.

In the OPs original post, he described a scenario where you were only allowed access certain authorised websites.

Now, even in the worst case scenario, I think that would be a long way off. With even a little luck, it would never happen. Still its hard to talk about the future with confidence. You could produce such a whitelist, and if it was generous enough, most users wouldn't know, or care, at least at the start. This is done in some corporate IT settings, with reasonable success.


If there was a scenario where normal internet users were only allowed access vetted IPs that were on a whitelist, then all the things you just mentioned don't work.

strobe

mikerowsopht wrote: »

So we all know that this is going to happen sooner or later and I know in some cases it's happening already on a very small scale....
both in Ireland & other countries within the EU

ISP's locking down the Internet, telling you what websites you can or cannot look at.

They will block downloading of Music and Torrents & P2P applications. It's just a matter of time before the internet we know of today disappears.

In the future all you will be able to do is view legitimate corporate or government websites, check the weather, search google and check your bank account.

Obvioulsy although it could be implemented tomorrow if needed be it will be a long time down the road ( hopefully )

For Example Eircom have already blocked access to thepiratebay as a starter

So how long do you think it will be before ?

P2P apps disappear
torrent clients and torrent sites disappear
Porn Sites disappear to get moved to the new .xxx domain
& basically the entire Internet getting locked down

You cannot block the whole Internet but Ireland has a very limited amount of ISP's and if only 1 court hearing goes the wrong way or the law gets changed all the ISP's would have no choice but to block certain content.

As I work in IT I know all the ways around this problem but I also know that even the ways around can also be blocked so..............

Sorry if this has been said already but..... In a democratic capitalist country (Ireland and other countries in the EU) couldn't someone just set up an ISP company that didn't block content, advertise that fact, and instantaneously get 90%+ of the market switching to them, crippling all competition in a matter of weeks, thus forcing the competition to either permanently exit the market or re-enter and scrap their content controls? Or like somethin....whatever.

phill106

Aldebaran wrote: »

I'm downloading the internet right now, just in case.

Burn me a copy?