Temporary Exemptions for Foreign Registered Vehicles

ex6

Hi all,

I am foreigner living and working in Dublin.

Under what circumstances and for how long I can drive forgein registered car in Ireland. I have one understanding of this based on leaflets found in www.revenue.ie website but I got different advice from different people.

Please take a look and tell me if I am correct or not: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Facts supporting the idea that I am allowed to drive forgein car in Ireland:

1) I am in Dublin alone, my family is aboard
2) I do visit my family regularry (I fly back to them about once every 2 months).

Does 1+2 mean I am considered non-resident and am allowed to drive forgein car in Ireland.

Some opinions against this were that that
1) I am on permanent contract
2) I dont drive to visit my family, but fly there
3) I would have to spend more than 50% of my days off with my family (this is not written to revenue.ie leaflet, but was told to me by someone working in revenue.ie)

Also the page http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31983L0182:en:HTML what is linked to at the revenue.ie page states that it should be ok for me to drive my forgein car here for 6 months.

I have heared horror stories that forgein people who drive non/irish cars have been fined about 400 euro and in some cases the cars have been even seized.

If you are here permanently you should register the car here and pay road tax, end of story really.

ex6

RoverJames wrote: »

If you are here permanently you should register the car here and pay road tax, end of story really.

But that is the question - am I here permanently???

Ok my current job is good - nice coworkers, I like what I do, and pay is fine - gets the bills paid, but if recession is over, I would definately like to go back to "fatherland" and be with my family.

Cookie_Monster

if you live here for more than 183 days a year you become resident which in turn would (I imagine) mean you need to register you car as Irish

Tomas_S

I dont think there was a real law about it ever. I live here 8 years and people used to say different things like:
1 can drive it for 3 months
2 can drive it for 6 months
3 a year!
4 should have a ferry ticket with you to get back home etc

I drove lithuanian reg car for 4 yr and never had a prob. stoped few times in check point i said i was here few weeks. Gardai was happy with that
I think it has loads to do aswell how u drive if ur driving mad den cops gonna start pulling you over and den they will take your car.

ex6

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if you live here for more than 183 days a year you become resident

I am aware of that, but the page: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html specifically says:

revenue.ie web page wrote:

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

So even if I am in Dublin more than 183 days of one year, my personal ties outside Ireland would outweight my occupational ties. (at least this is how I understand this rule)

Cookie_Monster

ex6 wrote: »

I am aware of that, but the page: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html specifically says:



So even if I am in Dublin more than 183 days of one year, my personal ties outside Ireland would outweight my occupational ties. (at least this is how I understand this rule)

yes, maybe. it all depends on the revenue's definition of "regularly" tbh, ring them.

ex6

ex6 wrote: »

But that is the question - am I here permanently???

You're here as permanently as the rest of us, more so actually, some of us don't have permanent jobs

ex6

ex6 wrote: »

So even if I am in Dublin more than 183 days of one year, my personal ties outside Ireland would outweight my occupational ties. (at least this is how I understand this rule)

You go home 6 times a year :rolleyes:

ex6

Revenue page said: "provided the person returns there regularly" - once in every 2 month is IMHO pretty regular thing.

Does anyone have link for real Irish law about this. One thing is the "leaflet" that revenue has online. It is more like guidline, recomendation... But I would like to take look at the legal text that would be needed if I ever run into trouble with garda or revenue and it they want to fine me or seize my car. I want to know my rights.

I do work here and pay my taxes here, but if I am allowed to drive forgein car, I will do it. Car is already taxed, "NCT-d" and insured in my fatherland, why should I import it, pay tax on it ... again, and get **** expensive irish insurance on it when it is already insured and that insurance is valid in whole EU + some other countries.

CiniO

RoverJames wrote: »

You're here as permanently as the rest of us, more so actually, some of us don't have permanent jobs

But the revenue website states this:

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

Question is what doesn't it mean "returns there regularly"? Is it stated in any law act?
If not, in case of any trouble (car seized) it's probably up to the court to decide.

I'd strongly go for it, that person who has family abroad, and goes to visit them reuglarry, and only works here, is not an Irish resident.

BeardyGit

This one's actually plain and simple. To be considered non-resident for tax purposes you must 'reside' outside the state for 183 days or more per annum. You're a resident for tax purposes.

Unsure? Try claiming back all the income tax, PRSI, income levy etc that you pay each year and see how far you get. Tax is tax. If you're liable to pay income tax without an entitlement to claim it back for last year, you're liable to pay VRT, NCT it as appropriate and pay the applicable rate of motor tax.

Honestly, you're wasting your time trying to read between the lines and introduce or interpret shades of grey when it comes to a black and white tax liability.

There's a distinction between being a registered, permanent resident in Ireland, and being 'currently resident'. It's the latter that determines your categorisation in relation to your question. If you've lived here for 6 months or more - You're resident, even if you've visited home during that time.

If you've owned the vehicle for 6 months while you 'resided' outside the state, you'll be entitled to have the VRT waved (assuming you've come from another EU member state where all taxes on the vehicle had been paid) but if you lived here, bought a car in your Fatherland as you've called it, then brought it here and are seeking to avoid or justify avoiding paying the VRT etc., you're fighting a losing battle.

It's either one or the other really. Nothing open to interpretation there really, is there?

Unsure? Call the Customs & Excise unit in Revenue and give them your PPS number and date you bought the car and they'll put you straight!

ardmacha

To be considered non-resident for tax purposes you must 'reside' outside the state for 183 days or more per annum. You're a resident for tax purposes.

This is misinformation and typical of many half baked postings here. You are seeking normal residence for car ownership purposes based on family ties and this has nothing to do with income tax.

You may be covered, but the further away your family are the more difficult it is to show that your ties remain there. It is different for someone from Tyrone who goes there every weekend and continues to play a part in the life of their native area.

get **** expensive irish insurance on it when it is already insured and that insurance is valid in whole EU + some other countries.

This is fine if your insurance company is aware that you are spending the entire time in Ireland. Logically if you are spending your entire time here then the insurance should be the same price as the risk is the same.

And of course if you decide to "move" then no VRT will be payable and you'll be honest with your insurance company.

Cookie_Monster

never mind...

Tigger

Tomas_S wrote: »

I
I drove lithuanian reg car for 4 yr and never had a prob. stoped few times in check point i said i was here few weeks. Gardai was happy with that

but you were lying right?

BeardyGit

ardmacha wrote: »

This is misinformation and typical of many half baked postings here. <snip>

How is this misinformation? See here:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/tax-residence.html#sec1

So, what say you? Ah, I see what you mean. Back in a few minutes

CiniO

what the hell is "normal residence"?

you can be
resident
or
ordinary resident
or
both or neither that's all.

the criteria are the same for all tax purposes, not just income tax

There's also a thing called: habitually resident.

All three of them might be different.

And I thing there is a thing callen normally resident as well.

CiniO

RoverCraft wrote: »

How is this misinformation? See here:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/tax-residence.html#sec1

So, what say you? Ah, I see what you mean. Back in a few minutes

Yes - but being resident for tax purposes doesn't necesserily mean being resident for other purposes.

Cookie_Monster

CiniO wrote: »

There's also a thing called: habitually resident.

All three of them might be different.

And I thing there is a thing callen normally resident as well.

i read about that after posting, apologies.
I'll have to give out to my tax lecturer next week for not mentioning them.

OP just ring the revenue and get clarification.

BeardyGit

Okay, I stand corrected ardmacha - Thanks.

So, allow me to expound on your own information devoid response

The period of 6 months is the recurring theme when it comes to taxation.

Having done my homework and having a fairly firm grasp of the english language, I'll set out the following for discussion:

The OP can use their vehicle in the state for a period not exceeding 6 months in any 12 months. That will mean that if their car is brought to Ireland they'll have 6 months use before it needs to spend 6 months out of the state (not just over and back from the UK!) before they could bring it back again. Or 2 months here, 3 months out, 4 months here, 3 months out - Whatever way the 6 months per annum is carved up.

Extract from the EU directive linked to by the OP:

"Temporary importation of certain means of transport for private use
Where a private vehicle, caravan, pleasure boat, private aircraft, tricycle or bicycle is imported temporarily, the item imported shall be exempt from the taxes specified in Article 1 for a period, continuous or otherwise, of not more than six months in any 12 months, provided that: (a) the individual importing such goods: (aa) has his normal residence in a Member State other than the Member State of temporary importation;
(bb) employs the means of transport in question for his private use;


(b) the said means of transport is not disposed of or hired out in the Member State of temporary importation or lent to a resident of that State. However, private vehicles belonging to a car-hire firm having its head office in the Community may be re-hired to non-residents with a view to being re-exported, if they are in the country as a result of a hire contract which ended in that country. They may also be returned by an employee of the car-hire firm to the Member State where they were originally hired, even if such employee is resident in the Member State of temporary importation."



So, if the OP transfers residence to Ireland they'll need to formally import the vehicle immediately. Likewise it would be reasonable to assume that if the vehicle spends more than 6 months in any 12 month consecutive period, it should be imported formally.


All of this assumes the directive has been ratified, something I couldn't be arsed confirming at this time!

ardmacha

Having done my homework

If you had done your homework you would have read the EU directive

Article 7

General rules for determining residence

1. For the purposes of this Directive, "normal residence" means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.

However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.

2. Individuals shall give proof of their place of normal residence by any appropriate means, such as their identity card or any other valid document.

3. Where the competent authorities of the Member State of importation have doubts as to the validity of a statement as to normal residence made in accordance with paragraph 2, or for the purpose of certain specific controls, they may request any additional information or evidence.

BeardyGit

ardmacha wrote: »

If you had done your homework you would have read the EU directive

Article 7

General rules for determining residence

1. For the purposes of this Directive, "normal residence" means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.

However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.

2. Individuals shall give proof of their place of normal residence by any appropriate means, such as their identity card or any other valid document.

3. Where the competent authorities of the Member State of importation have doubts as to the validity of a statement as to normal residence made in accordance with paragraph 2, or for the purpose of certain specific controls, they may request any additional information or evidence.

The whole point of this is to provide some form of 'interpretation' surely.

Do me a favour and try to interpret it in some way, rather than just quoting verbatim what's already available to be read by all. As far as I see it, this bit just serves to reinforce my reading of the rules/directive as they apply -

Ex. article 7, section 3:

"However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly."

This is not EXCLUSIVE of the 6 months in 12 rule - They apply equally. The OP can argue that their place of normal residence is outside the state, but they'll still need to register the vehicle to legally keep it in Ireland for more than 6 months in twelve.

If you disagree and want to discuss it further, you'd better try explaining your position and understanding a little better. Right now you're doing little to argue your point.

Atomic Pineapple

Do you not have to register a foreign reg car here if your here for any other reason other than on holiday?

The question might be best answered on vrt.ie

http://www.vrt.ie/phpbb2/

ardmacha

There seems to be a subtle difference here between the Directive and the revenue leaflet. The revenue have definitions of residence and require ROI residents only to drive ROI cars, while non residents may temporarily import vehicles. There is no explicit mention of the vehicle itself being anywhere, other than that you can only stay a year.

All in all I doubt if the OP can successfully do what he intends. He could write to the revenue formally and seek an opinion and if they are happy then he is in good order. If he does not, they could seize his car and let him argue his case, which could get very messy, although they might just let him transfer residence in that case. There is no particular cost in transferring residence, other than more expensive insurance, which should be more expensive anyway and the need to pay VRT on any future replacement car, if he is still here.