Kenny will axe State cars - What will Bertie do now?

dixiefly

Enda Kenny says that he will abolish the automatic State cars for ministers and ex-Taoisigh.

There will be a car pool instead which will be given out on a priority basis so sometimes ministers and ex-taoisigh will have to find there own way to places they are going.

This is a perk for politicians provided by politicians that will be rightfully ceased.

Interesting to note that Bertie has let his driver's licence lapse obviously noting his "driver for life" situation. Let him get the News Of The World to provide him with a driver.

Next to be hit also should be the insane practice of providing 24/7 garda protection to ex-Taoisigh no matter where they are in the country. I am sure when a list of people most vunerable to kidnap etc is done, people like Garret Fitz etc would e well down the list. And if they are worried about their security let them pay for the privelage!

Well done Enda Kenny.....People dont like your manner but I say substance and policies are more important. Also unlike Cowen (and to an extent Gilmore) Kenny is not afraid to implement policies that effect himself or his colleagues / supporters.

Independent.ie
It's the bus for Bertie as FG vows to axe all ministerial cars
By Fionnan Sheahan
Friday October 15 2010

FORMER Taoiseach Bertie Ahern can start taking the bus if Fine Gael gets into power, as the party will remove his full-time state car and driver.

Following the example of new British prime minister David Cameron, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has promised to bring in a ministerial car pool to cut the €5m bill for the perk.

Mr Cameron told his ministers to "take the Tube" (the London Underground) and Mr Kenny will also tell ministers to take public transport or drive their own cars, where possible.

Fine Gael said the same rule would apply to former Taoisigh, such as Mr Ahern, who would have to apply for use of a car and driver on specific occasions -- and only get one if it is available.

The party pledged to halve the cost to the taxpayer of providing ministerial cars. Only the Taoiseach and Justice Minister in a Fine Gael-led government would be guaranteed a garda car and driver all the time for security reasons.

Mr Ahern famously allowed his driving licence to lapse while he was Taoiseach but appeared guaranteed to have a driver and car provided for the rest of his life.

The taxpayer spends around €84,000 a year providing the former Taoiseach with a state car and driver. But the furore over his decision to be filmed in a cupboard for a newspaper TV ad sparked a call by former University of Limerick president Ed Walsh for Mr Ahern's state car to be taken off him.

Ministers

Mr Ahern was also criticised by opposition parties last year for using his state car to travel to signings of his biography.

Figures compiled by Fine Gael transport spokesman Simon Coveney revealed that the 27 ministerial cars and 54 garda drivers cost €11m in the past two years.

Proposing to halve this cost, Fine Gael's new public sector reform plan says that in government the party will:


Encourage ministers and junior ministers to take public transport or make use of their own personal car, giving them mileage costs like TDs and senators.
Bring in a car-pooling system, where state cars are available at short notice with security-cleared drivers.
Ensure garda drivers are only provided to the Taoiseach and the Justice Minister, and in other circumstances where a requirement is determined.

Fine Gael confirmed former Taoisigh would be included in this arrangement but not former Presidents, who would retain existing privileges as former Heads of State.

Mr Coveney said the present cost was "unjustified and unsustainable" and the "sense of entitlement" had to end.

"There can be no sacred cows when the country is in fiscal crisis, and the Government must lead by example in cutting unnecessary expenditure.

In government, Fine Gael will ensure that 'Mercs and Ministers' will no longer be automatically associated.

"While the savings will not make a dramatic impact on the Exchequer, it will send out a clear message that reform in the public service is starting from the top down," Mr Coveney said.

- Fionnan Sheahan

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godtabh

I like the way kenny puts together polices based on the previous days news headlines

gandalf

godtabh wrote: »

I like the way kenny puts together polices based on the previous days news headlines

TBH this should have ended years ago and given we have a shortage of Gardai why should 54 of them be used a glorified chauffeurs?

Given the crime problems we have those men could be better used in real Police operations!

What do you think godtabh?

trad

Don't Enda and Eamonn Gilmore not have cars and drivers funded from the public purse?

dixiefly

godtabh wrote: »

I like the way kenny puts together polices based on the previous days news headlines

With due respect that is a nice easy soundbite to make.

I do not believe that Enda Kenny comes up with policies off the cuff like that....though he has made some gaffes in the past.

This added to aboloshing the seanad should be added to other actions like eliminating the permanent gardai for ex-taoisigh, no pensions for ex td's / ministers if they are paid by the State/ EU.

Further down the road he needs to halve the number of T.D's

Lenny Lovett

But will he actually do it? And if so will we end up paying for the Ministers transport via their expenses instead? I'd be more im pressed if he did away with the expenses racket as well as the cars. Not many workers get paid expenses along with their salaries to go to work. Fair enough if they have to go abroad their flights and accommodation, food etc should be covered but that should be it.

thebman

godtabh wrote: »

I like the way kenny puts together polices based on the previous days news headlines

How do you know he hasn't had it for months and is merely mentioning it when asked by the media when it appears in the headlines?

Why are you assuming this policy didn't exist before the headline?

trad wrote: »

Don't Enda and Eamonn Gilmore not have cars and drivers funded from the public purse?

Yes and Enda is saying he will change it if elected. He can't change it from the opposition benches, FF/Greens could and aren't so I think that it is worth looking at here.

Seriously people looking for reasons to hate on FG in a thread where they say they will abolish a political perk ... ... makes it look like they have an agenda IMO.

ednwireland

hide from abramovich in a cupboard

oh sorry he's already doing that

Lenny Lovett

thebman wrote: »

How do you know he hasn't had it for months and is merely mentioning it when asked by the media when it appears in the headlines?

Why are you assuming this policy didn't exist before the headline?

Maybe he has but you must admit he's not telling us much of what he'd do if he was elected. We get an odd scrap here and there. It kind of implies that he hasn't got any policies. Doesn't it? Let's face it we haven't seen much of our opposition leaders these past six months or so. They should have been ripping into the Government and shouting their policies and plans from the rooftops. We haven't heard a peep from them really.

Cookie_Monster

Bertie will just be handed a licence by someone in the RSA, as for the rest of them the milage claims will probably outdo the cost of the cars.
They probably start trying to claim for depreciation and wear and tear too :rolleyes:

InigoMontoya

I can't disagree with the proposals, cutting out this sort of waste* is very desirable, but this isn't really what I want to be hearing from FG/Kenny right now, this is very much a detail in the greater scheme of things.

*As an example, in a work capacity I attended a certain event at UCD last year. When I arrived around 8.00 to prepare for the 9.00 event which had a keynote speech by a minister, there were already 2 or 3 gardai hanging around outside the building, waiting for him to arrive. This in addition to the garda driver who delivered him. Not only is this completely unnecessary, but over time this sort of overkill would give anyone an inflated sense of their own importance.

mike65

Why would bertie need a car? He lives in Drumcondra and "works" in the Dail, he can get a fecking taxi or a bike.

Avns1s

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Maybe he has but you must admit he's not telling us much of what he'd do if he was elected. We get an odd scrap here and there. It kind of implies that he hasn't got any policies. Doesn't it? Let's face it we haven't seen much of our opposition leaders these past six months or so. They should have been ripping into the Government and shouting their policies and plans from the rooftops. We haven't heard a peep from them really.

I think that's really Labour you are talking about. In fairness to FG, they have been quite clear in their policies in most areas for anyone who wished to listen. Even FF have given them parise for at least having substance to their arguments and policies unlike labour, and that must must have been a very hard thing for FF to do.

OhNoYouDidn't

Same people whining about Bertie and his car will be the same people demanding internment when some 'commie republican type' gives him an earful or a slap on the 16 bus.

average_runner

So Fine Gael is going to take the state cars away from all the ex taoiseachs, all the ex presidents and have a car pool for the ministers!

So now instead of a state car we say for minister of Marine, he will hire a taxi to drive him all around the place, and it wont be a normal taxi either!

Not sure what the costs savings be!!

And remember some ministers no matter what party they are in, like getting taxis to donegal to meet them coming off the plane there, this wont be a local taxi either, be whoever they have an agreement with!!

nesf

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Not many workers get paid expenses along with their salaries to go to work. Fair enough if they have to go abroad their flights and accommodation, food etc should be covered but that should be it.

Quite a few regular workers get expenses paid. It's extremely common for those who spend a lot of their working days away from base.

kevteljeur

I found myself considering this very issue last Friday; I was heading out to footie in Ringsend in the car on Pearse street, the traffic was very heavy because of the match, and when I looked into the car beside me, and who was sitting in the passenger seat of the top of the range Merc with smoked glass, but Bertie Ahern himself (with passengers). He was very pleased with himself.

Personal opinion on what the man has done for Ireland aside, he does have this facility at his disposal 24/7; I suppose that since he's a former head of state, he won't be losing this service. Unfortunately.



k

hallelujajordan

thebman wrote: »

Yes and Enda is saying he will change it if elected. He can't change it from the opposition benches, FF/Greens could and aren't so I think that it is worth looking at here.

Can't he just decide not to use his car now if he feels so strongly about it . .

Cosmic Penguin

Avns1s wrote: »

I think that's really Labour you are talking about. In fairness to FG, they have been quite clear in their policies in most areas for anyone who wished to listen. Even FF have given them parise for at least having substance to their arguments and policies unlike labour, and that must must have been a very hard thing for FF to do.

I get the sense that FF are bigging up FG a little, as the prospect of a Labour led govenment scares the bejaysus out of them.

As it should all of us who work outside of the public sector

Lenny Lovett

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Not many workers get paid expenses along with their salaries to go to work. Fair enough if they have to go abroad their flights and accommodation, food etc should be covered but that should be it.

nesf wrote: »

Quite a few regular workers get expenses paid. It's extremely common for those who spend a lot of their working days away from base.

Yes but if you read what I originally posted above, I have no problem with them getting expenses when they have to travel away from home. I don't believe they should get expenses for travelling to and from the Dáil. Nobody else gets travel expenses for their trip to work. It's ridiculous.

Fattes

I suppose that since he's a former head of state, he won't be losing this service.Bertie is not a former head of state! He is a former TaoiseachFormer heads of state have lived in the Áras.

bamboozle

i admire Enda Kenny for this move as it is completely necessary (plus its sickens me to think Bertie will be driven around for life). We are broke and our government need to realise that they need to cut the ridiculous expenses currently being incurred.

Example needs to come from the top and all waste and frivilous expenditure needs to cease.
FG have said they will reduce use of govt jet, they will reduce the number of govt cars and garda drivers and they are in favour of a referendum regarding the abolishment of the toothless €48m a year white elephant that is the Seanad.

as my granny would say, watch after your penny's and the pounds will take care of themselves!

Brian Cowan seems quite happy to sanction use of the govt jet for ferrying around FF td's and junior ministers to ensure they are in the dail to vote, not to mention secret trips for Noel Dempsey from Donegal to London. Cowan is failing to show any restraint in needless expenditure.

http://irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/jet-sent-to-collect-td-for-vote-on-reshuffle-115460.html

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/callearys-government-jet-travels-cost-34000-133129.html

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/news/article/24850/

thebman

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Maybe he has but you must admit he's not telling us much of what he'd do if he was elected. We get an odd scrap here and there. It kind of implies that he hasn't got any policies. Doesn't it? Let's face it we haven't seen much of our opposition leaders these past six months or so. They should have been ripping into the Government and shouting their policies and plans from the rooftops. We haven't heard a peep from them really.

There are plenty of policies on the FG website TBH and they aren't going into these level of detail on many of them as its not practical to I would imagine. FF don't have their policies in that level of detail either on their website.

When the media is highlighting a particular topic, then Enda can and obviously is highlighting some of the details of what he wants to do if he gets into power.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Can't he just decide not to use his car now if he feels so strongly about it . .

I don't know if he can or not or how difficult it is or why he might choose not to do this. You'd have to ask him.

thebaldsoprano

godtabh wrote: »

I like the way kenny puts together polices based on the previous days news headlines

I'd say a little more thought went into it than that

However, I'd hazard a guess that this came out of the focus groups mentioned in Creighton's Glenties speech. It's possible that this is being misrepresented, but it looks a bit narrow - I'd prefer to see a broader policy to cut the cost of TDs to the taxpayer including considerable salary and expense cuts, particularly for ministers. The current situation where the Taoiseach is paid more than Angela Markel, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy is a joke.

I'd be a little skeptical about this until broader measures are brought in, at the moment it looks like a vote grabbing exercise.

Sgt. Bilko 09

Article from the times

THE PROVISION of Garda drivers and State cars to Cabinet Ministers, former taoisigh, the President, Chief Whip, Ceann Comhairle and others has cost almost €11 million in the past two years, it has emerged.
This represents expenditure of €105,000 per week, or €15,000 per day. Fine Gael has vowed to end the practice of supplying the cars and Garda drivers, saying if it were in government a car pooling system would be introduced.
The party’s transport spokesman, Simon Coveney TD, said a Fine Gael government would also introduce a system where cars would be driven by civilians, with Garda drivers used only for the taoiseach and minister for justice. Those entitled to drivers and cars would also be encouraged to drive themselves in their own cars and claim mileage for their journeys.
Fine Gael said it would cut by half the cost of providing cars and drivers.
Mr Coveney used written Dáil questions to Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern to obtain details of the cost of providing the cars and Garda drivers to 27 office holders and former office holders.
He said it was “incredible” that €10.9 million had been spent on the cars and drivers in the past two years at a time when the Republic was “on its knees”.

Bunch lying morans only in the job for the quirks!!

THE USE of the Government jet to fly Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey from Dublin to Derry for a speaking engagement and on to London cost €13,000 according to the Department of Transport.

Mr Dempsey has been accused of wasting taxpayers’ money and widely criticised for using both Government jet and his State car for the trip. He was flown to Derry on the Gulfstream IV jet where he was met by his Garda driver and ministerial car and driven just under 100km to Glenties, Co Donegal, to speak at the MacGill summer school last month. He then returned by car to Derry airport and flew on the jet to London

If it wasn't for legal representative for the irish times this information would not have been put into the public

Meanwhile its funny how they no were the taxpayers money is been p**sed away but No they decide to increase tax for the public and in the meantime they don't get pay cuts or adjust the pensions for ex minister who amoung the highest paid pensioners in the world who also get secetarail allownace and the stupid people in office decid pay cuts for army and gardai who are the very same people chuffeur the party people around and put there lives on the line every day.
How thick are these people seriously need big changes

Cookie_Monster

nesf wrote: »

Quite a few regular workers get expenses paid. It's extremely common for those who spend a lot of their working days away from base.

you get mileage based on your place of work to your outside working location, not from home to work though.

TD's should be getting mileage from the dail to wherever they are working that day. Not from home to the dail every day

nesf

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Yes but if you read what I originally posted above, I have no problem with them getting expenses when they have to travel away from home. I don't believe they should get expenses for travelling to and from the Dáil. Nobody else gets travel expenses for their trip to work. It's ridiculous.

If your normal job was away from home base though you would get paid for travelling from home to regular work sites. In a TD's case their normal place of business is their constituency office and they get mileage for travelling to Dublin. This is reasonable as they're expected to both work in their home constituency and work in Dublin which would be very hard on TDs from Ireland's rural west to do without expenses being paid.

There are many areas of expenses that are a joke but getting mileage to travel to the Dáil isn't really one of them.

hallelujajordan

thebman wrote: »

I don't know if he can or not or how difficult it is or why he might choose not to do this. You'd have to ask him.

mmm curious, how difficult can it be . .

Dear minister for Justice,

I don't need my car, please sell it and redeploy the Garda. . .

Yours, Enda. .

Actions speak louder than words Mr Kenny !

gazzer

I hope that this proposal comes in and that the bollix Ahern has to drive himself around for the rest of his life.

Nijmegen

There's so much gravy in Irish politics it's almost hard to pick which thing to scrap first.

The issue is that, as we've seen in Fianna Fail, the politicians complain the most when it's their toys threatened with cuts.

I'd say if FG had recently been in power their TD's would remember the perk and voice dissent at cutting it.

bamboozle

Nijmegen wrote: »

There's so much gravy in Irish politics it's almost hard to pick which thing to scrap first.

The issue is that, as we've seen in Fianna Fail, the politicians complain the most when it's their toys threatened with cuts.

I'd say if FG had recently been in power their TD's would remember the perk and voice dissent at cutting it.

is this the standard response of FF'ers now? for whatever happens or is suggested 'sure FG wouldnt have been any different.'

in all probability FG are going to be in power next, if in Power E Kenny has said he will cut these expenses.

Lenny Lovett

nesf wrote: »

If your normal job was away from home base though you would get paid for travelling from home to regular work sites. In a TD's case their normal place of business is their constituency office and they get mileage for travelling to Dublin. This is reasonable as they're expected to both work in their home constituency and work in Dublin which would be very hard on TDs from Ireland's rural west to do without expenses being paid.

There are many areas of expenses that are a joke but getting mileage to travel to the Dáil isn't really one of them.

I can't believe that the Dáil is not a TD's normal place of work. Can you show me where there's official confirmation of that please? If what you say is correct then that's a ridiculous state of affairs. So every single one of them is therefore entitled to travel expenses? It just gets more ridiculous.

dynamick

This is the same Enda Kenny who claimed a ministerial pension for 12 years while also being paid as a TD because he has been minister for tourism for a few months in the 90s.

The same Enda Kenny who says he will abolish the Seanad but forgot that he would need a constitutional amendment to do so.

The same Enda Kenny who when asked his party's policy on water charges, simply didn't know.

The same Enda Kenny who is only in opposition because his party refused to share power with sinn fein, yet when he was asked later why he wouldn't share power with Sinn Fein had this to say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-iqGmIFdC0

Lenny Lovett

He wants to be David Cameron when he grows up!

murphaph

hallelujajordan wrote: »

mmm curious, how difficult can it be . .

Dear minister for Justice,

I don't need my car, please sell it and redeploy the Garda. . .

Yours, Enda. .

Actions speak louder than words Mr Kenny !

I'm struggling to tell whether or not you agree with the proposal (regardless of where it came from). Do you agree that it would be a good idea to cut mercs and drivers from former taoisigh and most ministers or do you believe the practice should continue?

Rented Mule

dixiefly wrote: »

Next to be hit also should be the insane practice of providing 24/7 garda protection to ex-Taoisigh no matter where they are in the country. I am sure when a list of people most vunerable to kidnap etc is done, people like Garret Fitz etc would e well down the list. And if they are worried about their security let them pay for the privelage!

Spelling mistakes aside, you really need to take a better look at the outside world, if you think this is a 'privelage'. Regardless of your politics, you take care of the safety of any former Head of State.

ardmacha

Spelling mistakes aside, you really need to take a better look at the outside world, if you think this is a 'privelage'. Regardless of your politics, you take care of the safety of any former Head of State.

Garret Fitzgerald was Taoiseach, not Head of State. Do other small countries, Finland, Denmark, Slovakia, Estonia etc have these cars and police guards for former prime ministers? Do even large countries have these ministers carted around in government limos for family and policitical business?

murphaph

Rented Mule wrote: »

Spelling mistakes aside, you really need to take a better look at the outside world, if you think this is a 'privelage'. Regardless of your politics, you take care of the safety of any former Head of State.

Arrghh! ex Taoisigh are not (generally) ex heads of state! The head of state of Ireland is the President! No living ex taoiseach is also an ex head of state at the present time! Eamon DeValera was the last one that I can think of.

In any case, the security risk to the likes of Garrett Fitzgerald would be very low and as Coveney said on the radio this evening, their handsome pensions allow them to cover their own security costs if they have genuine concerns (which I doubt!) about them.

The risk of kidnapping for example would be much higher for a bank or supermarket manager! But they aren't protected round the clock by the taxpayer.

Nijmegen

bamboozle wrote: »

is this the standard response of FF'ers now? for whatever happens or is suggested 'sure FG wouldnt have been any different.'

in all probability FG are going to be in power next, if in Power E Kenny has said he will cut these expenses.

Calling me a FF'er might suggest you've not followed me on this forum :-) I'd happily string a lot of them up...

My big problem is that there is a general leadership deficit in Ireland, and all past behaviour leads one to conclude that a majority of TD's have their snouts in the trough and would be hard pressed to ever take a real moral stand on much of anything.

Look at PJ and his drunken rant. He shouldn't be a TD.

Look at the last time FG came to power, blind broke and £4m in the red. Within a year they were back in the black. FF doesn't have a monopoly on Galway tent type operations.

murphaph

Nijmegen wrote: »

Calling me a FF'er might suggest you've not followed me on this forum :-) I'd happily string a lot of them up...

My big problem is that there is a general leadership deficit in Ireland, and all past behaviour leads one to conclude that a majority of TD's have their snouts in the trough and would be hard pressed to ever take a real moral stand on much of anything.

Look at PJ and his drunken rant. He shouldn't be a TD.

Look at the last time FG came to power, blind broke and £4m in the red. Within a year they were back in the black. FF doesn't have a monopoly on Galway tent type operations.

Spot on, however I detect that FG are reading the electorate a bit better these days and are realising that these sorts of measures are desired by the public, and are responding with policy.

Agent Smith

trad wrote: »

Don't Enda and Eamonn Gilmore not have cars and drivers funded from the public purse?

Enda's isnt anyway, Dont know about gilmore

Manic Moran

Mr Cameron told his ministers to "take the Tube" (the London Underground) and Mr Kenny will also tell ministers to take public transport or drive their own cars, where possible.

Simultaneously, the Met's Special Protective Services division went ape at the thought of all the extra money it would cost to provide the same level of protection in manpower and surveillance at a tube station which could have been provided for the cost of a single driver and an armoured Jaguar.

Wonder what the resale value would be of a carpooled limo driven pretty much constantly as opposed to a 'personally issued' limo which was only driven at the requirements of a single person?

NTM

bijapos

While I welcome any initiative to reduce unnecessary state expenses it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Kenny does not want to abolish the perk by any means, he wants to introduce a "Ministerial car pool" and it is how this will be defined in the future that will be interesting.

Nevertheless he has laid down a kind of marker and that is to be welcomed. He now needs to hit out on TD's pensions, unvouched expenses and the rampant waste by Councillors around the country if he wants to prove this is not a publicity seeking gesture.