now the opposition have their chance!

seanin4711

If they dont agree with the plans the government have for the budget doesnt that mean election time?
DO they have the cahones to do it though?
Probably go along sheepishly but telling brian dobson and the country how much they oppose it!

Riskymove

seanin4711 wrote: »

If they dont agree with the plans the government have for the budget doesnt that mean election time?

no...unless a number of those supporting the Government opposse it

RichardAnd

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

SkepticOne

Fairly shrewd move by Gormley and now Cowen to invite the opposition into discussions. Either they agree with the government, in which case they can't complain when things go pear shaped later.

Or else they disagree, in which they are then blamed ("why couldn't they set aside petty party differences?") when things go pear shaped later.

Fianna Fail turning their own incompetence to their advantage.

Head The Wall

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

We don't have to go to the bond markets for a few months so there should be time for an election and it's painfully obvious that we are already overpaying on the bond market. If an opposition party came up with a credible manifesto and got elected that should placate the bond markets for now.

What the govt are doing at the moment is only going to end badly

SkepticOne

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

I would tend to agree with this, but not for the above reasons. It looks likely that at this stage things are going to come to a head with the bond markets and an approach to the IMF or the EU/IMF fund will have to be made. I think this will happen regardless of who is in power. It may as well, therefore, be the current governing parties that make this approach rather than the opposition.

unit 1

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

This is nonsense tbh. An election would take no more than a month at most, giving the country an opportunity to give a mandate to a new government lasting for 5 years and incorporating the full timespan of the so called 4 year betrayal plan.

imme

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

An election is a democratic expression, governments can go up to 5-year life span but it's not an imperative. Should we let international investors dictate when we have an election.

Liam Byrne

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

So basically you want FF's cuts, and no-one elses (even though, given the track record) other parties' cuts and budget are likely to be fairer, more ethical, more progressive and forward-thinking and less wasteful ?

As for what the view is "to the outside world", I've long argued that the fact that we support and condone and rescue con-men and dodgy organisations means that someone interested in an ethical structure in which to do business won't invest, because they'll be at a disadvantage.

The best thing this government could do is call an election in the morning and piss off into the sunset taking their NAMA, LTEVs and Anglo bailouts with them.

dunsandin

The Opposition seem to be long on rhetoric and outrage, but if the seats swap, and the roles are reversed, thats about all that will have changed, the players. The game will pretty much stay the same. I can't see either the Labour party nor FG making much difference. Different faces, same cards.

unit 1

Maybe we could just have a rotating "party in power" then, and no election. There's a word for that and I'm sure it's not democracy.

Nonoperational

Bond markets are gradually improving. Spread between us and german 10 yrs down to under 390 bp. Still shocking and will probably go back up tomorrow but it's a tiny move in the right direction. maybe.

Head The Wall

dunsandin wrote: »

The Opposition seem to be long on rhetoric and outrage, but if the seats swap, and the roles are reversed, thats about all that will have changed, the players. The game will pretty much stay the same. I can't see either the Labour party nor FG making much difference. Different faces, same cards.

The people working in the Public sector and civil service stay making their bad decisions, proposals etc regardless of what party is in power. This needs to be tackled pronto and we need some accountability in there

dunsandin

It's really the whole "Yes Minister" thing, there is a standing, unelected govt in the form of the civil service, and its a hard ship to turn. Take changing the dept of health as a small example, many have tried, few have prosperred. Politicians seem to dash themselves against the sea-wall of the CS and nothing much, fundamentally, changes.

SkepticOne

gpf101 wrote: »

Bond markets are gradually improving. Spread between us and german 10 yrs down to under 390 bp. Still shocking and will probably go back up tomorrow but it's a tiny move in the right direction. maybe.

Whether it is correct or not that bond markets are improving, I think this is what it is all about. It is fear that the yields spiral upwards and the government will be unable to borrow and the country will lose its financial sovereignty. The current government would rather not be in power when that happens or, if they are in power, have the blame shared with the opposition parties.

dan_d

Bigger picture.Right now we need this 4 year budget plan produced.In fact, the EU is demanding it be produced. Since the opposition are so vehemently declaring they'll be in power for at least some of that 4 years, then this is their chance to actually put in a bit of input and give the message to the outside world that Ireland Inc has a plan, regardless of who is at the helm.
That there is a level of certainty there.

As I've said before here - this goes way, way, way beyond simple party politics. And we ALL need to realise that.

xavidub

RichardAnd wrote: »

An election is not what this country needs right now. To the outside world, a government collapsing is a sign of instability which will drive our cost of borrowing up further. What we need is for FF to remain in power and for the cuts in the coming budget to be implemented quickly. This will lower our borrowing costs as we will be seen to be getting on top of things rather than just running around in circles.

An election is exactly what we need, to give us a government with a strong mandate which is more reassuring to the markets than anything else.

srvhead

xavidub wrote: »

An election is exactly what we need, to give us a government with a strong mandate which is more reassuring to the markets than anything else.

Exactly!

xavidub

Labour in 'having to come up with actual policies' shock

meditraitor

xavidub wrote: »

Labour in 'having to come up with actual policies' shock

The opposition as a whole are light on policy..... FG are as bad as labour and there is a very good reason for it.

Sticky_Fingers

meditraitor wrote: »

The opposition as a whole are light on policy..... FG are as bad as labour and there is a very good reason for it.

+1

I have yet to hear FG or Labour give any indication as to how they plan on dealing with the crisis apart from vague noises. They need to pull the finger out and get their act together by showing the public some concrete plans on how they will tackle the problem. It just reinforces the (possibly true) notion that like FF they are hoping to just muddle through their term in office.

meditraitor

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

+1

I have yet to hear FG or Labour give any indication as to how they plan on dealing with the crisis apart from vague noises. They need to pull the finger out and get their act together by showing the public some concrete plans on how they will tackle the problem. It just reinforces the (possibly true) notion that like FF they are hoping to just muddle through their term in office.

Its funny that its mainly the FG supporters pushing the Labour is light on policy agenda.

Did you read the FG policy document -NewERA...... had to laugh at their proposals.
Healthcare for example, they basically cut and past some wiki info on the Dutch system and said they would implement it... the cut and paste some french nonsense for their NRB National recovery bank.

18bn from the pension reserve for Job creation....... LOL

A few other soundbites about making big shops (tesco I presume) stop forcing farmers to pay for shop space.... how in the name of jupitor is that going to safeguard 200,000 farming jobs?

Soundbite , soundbite , soundbite.......

Have a read, its about as funny as the post by the "employee of the department of finance leak" thread from earlier

http://www.finegael.org/upload/Policy_Doc.pdf

lynski

Can I ask this question here?
why is it by grace and favor of the taoiseach that our public representatives, who we elected, get access for departmental information?
Am I missing something? why can't my td walk into any dept and barring classified info, get any info they want?

dan_d

lynski wrote: »

Can I ask this question here?
why is it by grace and favor of the taoiseach that our public representatives, who we elected, get access for departmental information?
Am I missing something? why can't my td walk into any dept and barring classified info, get any info they want?

I kind of wondered this myself.

Given the seriousness of what's been happening the last 2 years, I found it surprising to hear the taoiseach saying yesterday "now the opposition know the extent of what we have to deal with regarding budget cuts" (I'm paraphrasing).

Surely they should have been made aware long before now??

meditraitor

dan_d wrote: »

I kind of wondered this myself.

Given the seriousness of what's been happening the last 2 years, I found it surprising to hear the taoiseach saying yesterday "now the opposition know the extent of what we have to deal with regarding budget cuts" (I'm paraphrasing).

Surely they should have been made aware long before now??

Now we get to the crux of the argument, why do you think the opposition have not been able to formulate a proper fiscal policy to deal with the current economic problems, or to put it another way why would they?

johnboy_123

Hi all did anyone here John Bruton saying how FG would save 12billion by cuts/reorganisation of the Public sector and abolishing the HSE...If this is docuemented FG have my vote

meditraitor

johnboy_123 wrote: »

Hi all did anyone here John Bruton saying how FG would save 12billion by cuts/reorganisation of the Public sector and abolishing the HSE...If this is docuemented FG have my vote

LOL, thanks man..... I was having a pretty bad morning and that just livened it up no end.

Just glad I wasnt eating or drinking when I read that;)

johnboy_123

meditraitor wrote: »

LOL, thanks man..... I was having a pretty bad morning and that just livened it up no end.

Just glad I wasnt eating or drinking when I read that;)

Good I can bring joy in the morning...

meditraitor

johnboy_123 wrote: »

Good I can bring joy in the morning...

At least it proves one thing about FG, they do learn! They have stolen Labours soundbite reputation and built on it with fantasy and populist crap.

johnboy_123

probably but labour are keeping stum about everything

meditraitor

johnboy_123 wrote: »

probably but labour are keeping stum about everything

Thats called honest politics, if you dont have all the information its better to keep sctum than to invent solutions. . FG will never learn.

lynski

dan_d wrote: »

I kind of wondered this myself.

Given the seriousness of what's been happening the last 2 years, I found it surprising to hear the taoiseach saying yesterday "now the opposition know the extent of what we have to deal with regarding budget cuts" (I'm paraphrasing).

Surely they should have been made aware long before now??

Perhaps it is naivety on my part, but I would love to hear a good reason why my TD cannot walk into the Dept of health and find out exactly how much my local health center costs to run?