Will I get course? Crap degree and no experience.

Choclolate

I have a low grade honours degree in Science and maths.

10 years expereince in management in the Pharm Industry.

No teaching experience.

Is there any chance I will get on a Secondary Teaching course next year ie should I even bother to apply.

readystudypass

First thing to do is check if your degree is on the list of recognised degrees on www.teachingcouncil.ie

43 points was enough to get you into the PGDE last year but that was random selection. You can get up to 5 points for appropriate full-time professional experience and up to 2 points for appropriate part-time professional experience. There are no points for unqualified teaching experience in a secondary school anymore.

If you were really lucky and got the maximum 7 points from your professional experience (you would have to have worked 5 years full-time and 2 years part-time for this), you would then need 36 points from your degree. According to www.pac.ie , 36 points equates to 48% in your honours degree. If you have less than 48% you could do a masters (in anything) for 6 points, in which case 40% (32 points) in your honours degree would get you over the line assuming you are given the maximum points for professional experience.

You could easily get nothing for your professional experience. It depends on your specific role. Also points will most likely differ for 2011 entry as the points calculations have altered.

Choclolate

Thanks for the detail.

My degree is recognised.

I have 10 years experience in management, technical engineering/science and being self employed and owning my own business.

I got 43% in my degree - it is an honours degree.

Do you think I should bother to apply and go straight to England?

Thanks again.

legaleagle10

Choclolate wrote: »

I have a low grade honours degree in Science and maths.

10 years expereince in management in the Pharm Industry.

No teaching experience.

Is there any chance I will get on a Secondary Teaching course next year ie should I even bother to apply.

I would talk to the course manager if possible and explain the situation why and how you ended up with the low grade i.e immature, stress at the time, you realise now what you want to do etc.. explain yourself...of course if the answer is cause you were out partying or plain couldnt be ar*ed probably best to leave this advice out.:)

Choclolate

Thanks.

But will anyone actually talk to you.

My understanding was that it was like the CAO - it was based on points and nothing else.

Will it adversly affect my application is I canvise the college?

Any info would be great.

legaleagle10

Choclolate wrote: »

Thanks.

But will anyone actually talk to you.

My understanding was that it was like the CAO - it was based on points and nothing else.

Will it adversly affect my application is I canvise the college?

Any info would be great.

Hi Chocolate, well my advice would be to see if there is a course administrator/manager and speak to them- there has to be in most courses, these are the people who let you in to the college courses.

Most of college courses are based on points system but the fact you have a degree is great, dont be worrying about the fact that its "low grade" - lots of people get low grades in their degrees, maybe you were off the week of the finals!?. Im a firm believer that finals/leaving cert etc are not an accurate representation of students (you could be consistent and great all year and unfortunatly so, screw ur finals up due to pressure, strees etc)

ANYWAY..i would advise you to talk to a career guidance person, they are usually free of charge - look at the college websites i.e DIT/DBS/St Pats etc and see if you can book an appointment with them. Explain your situation, there may be other paths to it or maybe a degree you can take in order to get to where you need to go.

If you are over 24-26 (open to correction on age) you could be eligble to apply as mature student, but there are usually ways around everything but they are not always well known! Admittedly, I havent much a clue about teaching but I do know a bit about admission to colleges. So I would try to first talk to career guidance then book an appointment (or ring) course administrator.

Choclolate

Thanks, I will do that.

I have a maths and engineering degree (still cant spell).

I am 35 years old - completed degree a long time ago (before laptops in lectures and mobiles in the pub).

All advice welcome.

dory

legaleagle10 wrote: »

If you are over 24-26 (open to correction on age) you could be eligble to apply as mature student, but there are usually ways around everything but they are not always well known! Admittedly, I havent much a clue about teaching but I do know a bit about admission to colleges. So I would try to first talk to career guidance then book an appointment (or ring) course administrator.

There's no such thing as a mature students when it comes to postgraduate students, that's an undergrad thing.

My advice would be to go get a postgrad diploma or a masters. Both of these can up your points.

legaleagle10

Choclolate wrote: »

Thanks, I will do that.

I have a maths and engineering degree (still cant spell).

I am 35 years old - completed degree a long time ago (before laptops in lectures and mobiles in the pub).

All advice welcome.

http://educationposts.ie/..
might be handy? as I said not a clue

Choclolate

Not too many jobs about.

Seems to be alot more in Primary - I though secondary would have more oppertunities.

How many unemployed secondary teachers are in the country.

Not too many openings for Maths either I notice.

What would the average length of time a qualified teacher will be searching for a job?

readystudypass

You could try getting into the graduate diploma in education (Secondary) in DCU. Entry is not based on points, although a decent degree would normally be expected. However your professional experience should stand to you there.

Rapunzels

You should see if Trinity College's admissions policy is still the same as it was when I did it. It was separate to the NUI and you applied with a personal statement, 2 references as well as your grades and experience.
Then if you were selected for interview, you may or may not be admitted to the course.
The job situation as regards permanency is catastrophic in secondary schools at the moment. Most people I know who are qualified >10 years are not permanent. There is the "CID" - contract of indefinite duration - which is given after 4 consecutive contracts in the same school and is based on the hours you taught there. These can be elusive, and are very much subject dependent.
You will, however, almost certainly get substitution work, if not a year's contract upon the completion of the course. This is my understanding of it anyway.
The public perception of "handy number" though is very much untrue, the job situation is getting worse each year, the allocation to schools is being slashed each budget, and the kids are getting bolder and bolder..
If I were you, I'd try a bit of subbing if you can get it before the course, just to make sure it is for you.
The application is usually in December for the following year.
Good luck.

Choclolate

Thanks for the advice.

But can the employment prospects be any worse than other professions?

Is maths a goof subject to do, used to be.

AS far as handy - I havent had a handy number in 10 years, cant imagine it will get any worse. Kids getting bold, can they be that bad.

Whats the worst that can happed?

Rapunzels

do you have any friends who are teachers? or any experience in a school beyond your own schooling? have you even set foot in an Irish secondary school in the past 10 years?

what's the worst that can happen? lots. and it can be great, but it ain't easy.

I didn't compare teaching to any other profession as regards employment opportunities, because I have no experience in another profession nor any interest in another profession... so I can't compare.

I'd definitely recommend finding out more about the working conditions before embarking upon the course. and if you can, spend some time in a classroom. good luck.

seriouslysweet

Do a day in a school in your area that is middle of the road and you'll see how bad kids can be! I'm in 5th year and I'm in the best class in my year and you'd never believe what is said and done to teachers, I feel so so so sorry for them.

Lord TSC

No offence intended here but you're coming across as very naive and innocent to me.

Employment prospects may be no worse but they certainly are no better than every other industry out there. I may not have extensive experience (I only just finished my PGDE last year) but there simply is not a lot of jobs out there. Go pick up the Irish Independent and take a look at how few teaching jobs are being advertised. And then see how many you could even apply for if you ignored location and just took your qualifications into account.

On top of that, there are hundreds of qualified teachers coming out of the system every year and there are not the jobs out there to support them. Even with a good qualification, it can be hard to find a job and you’d be stupid to think you’ll simply walk into a job.

Truth be told (and this isn’t aimed directly at you but more is meant as a general rant), I’m getting a tad sick of reading people coming on this board and asking how to get a job in teaching after being released from another profession. I’ve seen quite a few topics of people who come on and think walking into a teaching job will come naturally to them, despite no teaching experience in the field. They come on and think that they can handle kids despite not even being in a school environment for years, and think “Sure what’s the worst that could happen.” I was lucky during my PGDE; I got a nice school AND I went in with expectations of having trouble students and it still shocked me how tough the job could be. Meanwhile, people, who teaching isn’t even a first choice for but rather a fall back because their main choice didn’t work out, think that it’s the easiest job in the world.

*Sigh*. As I said, it’s nothing personal against you Chocolate. But if you’ve not been in a classroom for years and if you are that naive about teaching, perhaps you should do some more research and, as Rapunzels said, see if you can talk to as many teachers as possible. Cause it’s my belief that if you go in with a view like your current one, you’ll likely be eaten alive...

Sorry for the rant. Guess the whole unemployment thing is getting to me....

electricalser

Yes Chocolate you should certainly apply!

Im doing the hdip in dcu at the moment its part time and classes are held on tuesdays and wednesday evenings from 5-8.

my degree is also a pass degree , I have 4 years full time teaching experience but out of 75 on the course there are plenty who have no experience at all. there are also people in their 30's 40's and 50's who have decided to switch to teaching.

Best of luck!

Choclolate

I dont want to pick a fight with techers - but lets be fair - anyone can apply for an engineers job, but teachers like to think teaching is there for them and because they have studied teaching they should get a job and nobody outside teaching can understand the pressure. I never worked in an office before I took my last job, nothing could have prepared me and nobody cared but I got on with it as I am sure I wil in a classroom.

I want to apply and if I ever qualify I want to apply for jobs in the market with a qualification behind me.

If someone with no teaching experience and no qualification want to go against me - fair enough - and if they get the job they may earn a little less than I would have.

But a teaching qualification is no better than any other qualification and I have no sympathy for qualified teachers without a job.

I have applied for engineers jobs which have gone to unqualified experienced individuals for 1/2 the money I would have looked for. But that is life. Alot of teachers seem to think that their profession should be protected.

In the real market there are 10000s of unemployed many of which could do the job of a teacher with little training, but will never get the oppertunity because of union protection of teaching positions.

A dose of the real world and budget meetings in a profit making organisation will make you realise how the office can be as intimidating as the classroom.

People breakdown crying everyday in the real world, crack under the pressure and get bullied in work, they go in the next day and battle on because if they dont - they get FIRED.

I am not picking a fight but as much as I neded a reality check maybe teachers need too.

spurious

'union protection of teaching positions'.

Are you talking about the Teaching Council and the requirement that teachers be qualified in their subjects? Do you think this is a bad thing?

Choclolate

Yes - The alternative is

1) People submit a CV

2) The managmenet chose from CVs which they want to interview.

3) Depending on the job they decide who should get it.

A maths teacher - I would want someone with a maths qualification.

In a rough school I would want someone with a teaching qualification and experience.

Teaching PE and religion in the local school maybe a good degree and sports experinece and some voluntry experience may be OK.

Its called the jobs market.

The reason people want to train as a teacher is they want the protection of the teachers job market.

Do a qualification and only people with that qualification can get the job.

Nice one

spurious

Teaching PE and religion in the local school maybe a good degree and sports experinece and some voluntry experience may be OK.

Tell that to the next child gets a broken ankle in PE because their 'engineer' teacher hadn't a clue about exercises they were getting the kids to do. Better still, tell it to the court as you are sued.


This thread has become silly and is veering off-charter. Locked.