The Labour Party

McDougal

A vote for them is a vote for Enda Kenny to be taoiseach

Anyway there is no meaningful differences between Labour and FF or FG. Labour support the plan to reduce the deficit to 3% by 2014 the same as FF and FG. This means huge cutbacks to public services, welfare and jobs. Labour fully support doing whatever the EU says. They blindly support the EU. Look at Labour's record in power. Nothing but acting as a crutch to FG and enforcing hardship. They can't be trusted either. Remember in 1992 when Spring put FF into power after promising not to? After the first Lisbon treaty Gilmore said it was dead but they were canvassing for it again a year later telling us it would bring jobs and investment. FF, FG and Labour should all merge into one big free market party.

Liam Byrne

McDougal wrote: »

A vote for them is a vote for Enda Kenny to be taoiseach

Anyway there is no meaningful differences between Labour and FF or FG. Labour support the plan to reduce the deficit to 3% by 2014 the same as FF and FG. This means huge cutbacks to public services, welfare and jobs. Labour fully support doing whatever the EU says. They blindly support the EU. Look at Labour's record in power. Nothing but acting as a crutch to FG and enforcing hardship. They can't be trusted either. Remember in 1992 when Spring put FF into power after promising not to? After the first Lisbon treaty Gilmore said it was dead but they were canvassing for it again a year later telling us it would bring jobs and investment. FF, FG and Labour should all merge into one big free market party.

They're all the same, yeah ?

So corruption and track record to date has no bearing on your evaluation ?

Het-Field

My God. What rubbish. If you have listened to the Labour Party over the past year, they have spouted endless leftist rhetoric, and are beholden to the idea of "progressive taxation", and "wealth taxes". They are left. And no matter what combination of parties make up the next Dail, Labour would be there.

Am I to assume you would prefer some kind of extreme leftist clique running the show ? If so, I suggest you take a look at all the countries behind the old white line between the east and west of Europe. Extreme leftism failed. Get over it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

McDougal

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They're all the same, yeah ?

So corruption and track record to date has no bearing on your evaluation ?

No they are not all the same but a vote for Labour means you are getting Kenny as taoiseach and the other blueshirts

Het-Field wrote: »

My God. What rubbish. If you have listened to the Labour Party over the past year, they have spouted endless leftist rhetoric, and are beholden to the idea of "progressive taxation", and "wealth taxes". They are left. And no matter what combination of parties make up the next Dail, Labour would be there.

Am I to assume you would prefer some kind of extreme leftist clique running the show ? If so, I suggest you take a look at all the countries behind the old white line between the east and west of Europe. Extreme leftism failed. Get over it.

Plenty of rhetoric alright and no clear positions. Labour in opposition spout populist crap but in government they are about the status quo.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The stability and growth pact is broken all the time by France. One rule for them and another for the little peripheral nations.

Het-Field

McDougal wrote: »

No they are not all the same but a vote for Labour means you are getting Kenny as taoiseach and the other blueshirts.

That is not a certainty. Depending on whether there is a leadership putcsh in FG, or if the suffer a further demise of popularity in the opinion polls we could be in a very tight election which could ensure that Labour could have a choice of partners.

McDougal wrote: »

Plenty of rhetoric alright and no clear positions. Labour in opposition spout populist crap but in government they are about the status quo.

I agree that the rhetoric has given rise to a lack of clarity, however, Labour WILL not back down as they have to keep their Union base happy. They will also seek to maintain their new found support within the public sector


The stability and growth pact is broken all the time by France. One rule for them and another for the little peripheral nations.[/QUOTE]

McDougal wrote: »

"A bigger boy told me to do it". What France do is their own business. We are not a comparator to France. Never were, and never will be. Ireland must look after it's own affairs. France are a leftist model in terms of wanton public expenditure. However, they have managed to pull themselves back from the brink of disaster.

Shea O'Meara

McDougal wrote: »

A vote for them is a vote for Enda Kenny to be taoiseach

So what am I to do? ....should I just not bother so?

You cast your vote based on the party's track record and policies. So If I want to vote Labour I shouldn't if I don't like Kenny? A vote for any party is possibly a vote for any other party by that logic.

A vote for Labour is a vote for Labour, it says it on the piece of paper;)
And play the ball not the man...FG are a party with policies not a dictatorship.

McDougal wrote: »

Anyway there is no meaningful differences between Labour and FF or FG.

Just so you know, the powers that be love nothing better than a disgruntled voter, who's so disgruntled he doesn't cast a vote.

Scofflaw

You cast your vote based on the party's track record and policies. So If I want to vote Labour I shouldn't if I don't like Kenny? A vote for any party is possibly a vote for any other party by that logic.

Under the Irish system that's almost true, at least in a black and white sense. You don't know when you're voting for a party what coalition may come out of it - you have to vote for your preferred party and hope that whatever coalition they wind up in they'll be able to implement at least some of the policies your preference for them is based on.

Admittedly, people don't seem to be very good at applying that logic.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Nijmegen

You vote for the party they want, and given that we end up in coalition more often than not you hopefully get your party a big enough seat at the table to make a contribution.

The problem I have with Labour is that they are joined at the hip to the unions, who seem to be living in a fairy land when it comes to bridging our €20bn a year deficit.

McDougal

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

So what am I to do? ....should I just not bother so?

You cast your vote based on the party's track record and policies. So If I want to vote Labour I shouldn't if I don't like Kenny? A vote for any party is possibly a vote for any other party by that logic.

A vote for Labour is a vote for Labour, it says it on the piece of paper;)
And play the ball not the man...FG are a party with policies not a dictatorship.

Just so you know, the powers that be love nothing better than a disgruntled voter, who's so disgruntled he doesn't cast a vote.

No you should vote but if you want change don't vote for Labour

mayo_lad

McDougal wrote: »

No you should vote but if you want change don't vote for Labour

do you mean change like this http://www.faircare.ie/ instead of just throwing money at it

or this http://www.finegael.ie/upload/NewERA2010.pdf actually stimulating the economy instead of taking money out of it

or this http://www.finegael.org/upload/NewPolitics.pdf instead of the status qou

sensibleken

McDougal wrote: »

No you should vote but if you want change don't vote for Labour

Who would you suggest then? Christian solidarity party?

Liam Byrne

McDougal wrote: »

No they are not all the same but a vote for Labour means you are getting Kenny as taoiseach and the other blueshirts

As Het-Field said, that's not a definite, but even if it were I could live with that, not least because it ensures that the current shower of con-men are evicted.

Liam Byrne

Het-Field wrote: »

Am I to assume you would prefer some kind of extreme leftist clique running the show ? If so, I suggest you take a look at all the countries behind the old white line between the east and west of Europe. Extreme leftism failed. Get over it.

Extreme capitalism failed too. It's just that those with vested interests have the connections and money to try and jump-start it again.

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

Who would you suggest then? Christian solidarity party?

Christain solidarity party, Socialist Workers Party, Sinn Fein, Independents

I would not waste my vote with the labour party, they are the same shower of wasters as Fianna Fail.

Oisin Quinn a proposed labour party candidate in the next election is a son of Lochlainn Quinn one of the major players in AIB during the so called boom years.
If you are seeking for something new in Labour compared to FF or FG you are in for a surprise ? When Ruairi Quinn was Minister for Finance he gave substantial tax breaks to big business and speculators as the others and he certainly did not claw back any schemes introduced by previous ministers.

Liam Byrne

Scofflaw wrote: »

Under the Irish system that's almost true, at least in a black and white sense. You don't know when you're voting for a party what coalition may come out of it - you have to vote for your preferred party and hope that whatever coalition they wind up in they'll be able to implement at least some of the policies your preference for them is based on.

Admittedly, people don't seem to be very good at applying that logic.

cordially,
Scofflaw

All true, except when a party deliberately states / gives the impression that they won't join a specific other.

As a direct result of on what went on the last election - as I said elsewhere - I will be looking for a guarantee that none of the candidates that want my vote will sign up with FF or the Greens (or, to be fair, Lowry)

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

Christain solidarity party, Socialist Workers Party, Sinn Fein, Independents

I would not waste my vote with the labour party, they are the same shower of wasters as Fianna Fail.

Oisin Quinn a proposed labour party candidate in the next election is a son of Lochlainn Quinn one of the major players in AIB during the so called boom years.
If you are seeking for something new in Labour compared to FF or FG you are in for a surprise ? When Ruairi Quinn was Minister for Finance he gave substantial tax breaks to big business and speculators as the others and he certainly did not claw back any schemes introduced by previous ministers.

Great, vote in extremists with no experience.

If the tax breaks by Ruairi Quinn youre refering to are the reduction in the corporation tax to 12.5%, the single most important factor in stimulating foreign direct investment. Along with the free 3rd level education, also a Quinn initiative, then more of that please!

Maybe Quinn brining the General Government Balance from a deficit of 2.1% in 1995 to a surplus of 1.1% in 1997 was also a bad thing

Robert Dublin

Extremeists I think this is a bit rich from a party whose leader was a former member of the Official IRA

What is socialist about giving big business a tax rate of 12.5% compared to a minimum of 20% to 40% for the ordinary worker ?
Why did the great reformer Ruairi not end the practice of the top earners in the country paying an average rate of tax of 6% by the use of tax write offs and acc. capital depreciation ???
As stated FF = FG =Labour. Right wing parties.
This model has shown to be flawed hence the mess we are in.
By the way what is labours current tax policy ?
If you have no policy you do not offend anyone. Oh isnt it great to be populist.

McDougal

mayo_lad wrote: »

do you mean change like this http://www.faircare.ie/ instead of just throwing money at it

or this http://www.finegael.ie/upload/NewERA2010.pdf actually stimulating the economy instead of taking money out of it

or this http://www.finegael.org/upload/NewPolitics.pdf instead of the status qou

Basically FG are just advocating privatisation and dressing it up as some revolutionary new idea?

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

What is socialist about giving big business a tax rate of 12.5% compared to a minimum of 20% to 40% for the ordinary worker ?
Why did the great reformer Ruairi not end the practice of the top earners in the country paying an average rate of tax of 6% by the use of tax write offs and acc. capital depreciation ???
As stated FF = FG =Labour. Right wing parties.
This model has shown to be flawed hence the mess we are in.
By the way what is labours current tax policy ?
If you have no policy you do not offend anyone. Oh isnt it great to be populist.

the 12.5% stimulated investment, foreign investment which created jobs for you and me. The free 3rd level education was an added bonus for companies and great for us. Really this is basic stuff.

It doesnt matter whether it was socialist, it mattered whether it worked

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

the 12.5% stimulated investment, foreign investment which created jobs for you and me. The free 3rd level education was an added bonus for companies and great for us. Really this is basic stuff.

It doesnt matter whether it was socialist, it mattered whether it worked

The Labour party holds itself out to be a socialist party. No one knows if this is the case as Labour does not seem to have a policy on anything apart from Liz McManus who believes in having more Female Td's and then announces her retirement at the next election because of this and looks to have her son nominated for gender balance. I mean this is basic stuff.
Every business in the country was allowded this 12.5% corporation tax rate whether it was a company employing 1 person engaged in property speculation and again why should such property speculation entities walk on the back of the ordinary worker.W
Why did the great reformer Ruairi not claw back / restrict the huge tax write off's for the wealthy in this country. My point being Labour is as right wing as FF and at the next election we could find ourselves with a FF/ Labour government.
By the way free education was started in this country by Donnacha O Malley in the 1960s.
It should be nothing short of an embarrassement for any party that it took
until then to bring in free 3rd level as I agree that it will create a better future. By the way What is Labours policy with regard to the reintroduction of fees ?? Do we Know ??

McDougal

sensibleken wrote: »

Great, vote in extremists with no experience.

If the tax breaks by Ruairi Quinn youre refering to are the reduction in the corporation tax to 12.5%, the single most important factor in stimulating foreign direct investment. Along with the free 3rd level education, also a Quinn initiative, then more of that please!

Maybe Quinn brining the General Government Balance from a deficit of 2.1% in 1995 to a surplus of 1.1% in 1997 was also a bad thing

Aye and Quinn promised all the multinationals he would support their non-union policy. All the corporations who came in in the Quinn era are non-union. Anyway building an economy on FDI was completely unsustainable. It was always going to leave as soon as cheaper markets opened up like in Poland.

McDougal

sensibleken wrote: »

the 12.5% stimulated investment, foreign investment which created jobs for you and me. The free 3rd level education was an added bonus for companies and great for us. Really this is basic stuff.

It doesnt matter whether it was socialist, it mattered whether it worked

There is far too much yankee finance capital in Ireland as it is. We need to diversify from it rather than constantly trying to kiss corporate arse like Quinn.

sensibleken

McDougal wrote: »

There is far too much yankee finance capital in Ireland as it is. We need to diversify from it rather than constantly trying to kiss corporate arse like Quinn.

If you have all the answers I would love to hear them, and I would also like to hear which parties policies support them

McDougal

sensibleken wrote: »

If you have all the answers I would love to hear them, and I would also like to hear which parties policies support them

I'm all for developing Irish resources. Nationalise all our oil and gas and explore for more fields. Use the oil and gas for the benifit of the people not for corporate profits. Tell the Spanish, French and EU to get stuffed and build a fishing fleet and start exporting hundreds of millions worth of fish every year. Leave the euro and devalue the punt. Encourage indigineously owned industry like Finland did with nokia and Netherlands with Phillips. The problem with the American corporations is that they repatriate all their profits. With an indigineous company the profits stay in Ireland.

Riskymove

the bottom line is still that the alternative to a FF Taoiseach is a FG one

its just maths really at this point

voting for anyone else will not lead to a change

a Government without FF or FG is nigh on impossible given current vote share and candidate numbers

sensibleken

McDougal wrote: »

I'm all for developing Irish resources. Nationalise all our oil and gas and explore for more fields. Use the oil and gas for the benifit of the people not for corporate profits. Tell the Spanish, French and EU to get stuffed and build a fishing fleet and start exporting hundreds of millions worth of fish every year. Leave the euro and devalue the punt. Encourage indigineously owned industry like Finland did with nokia and Netherlands with Phillips. The problem with the American corporations is that they repatriate all their profits. With an indigineous company the profits stay in Ireland.

Well im all for nationalising corrib, but I dont think you understand how EU trade works.
Yes they take a lot of fish, in return we get farming subsidies. This is to ensure we dont become reliant on a fish based economy, over fish it and f*ck ourselves again.

Beside which. If we leave the EU most of the money we make will be from exports, which will not be as favoured as exports from EU countries, therefore there will be less of a market for them, therefore we will not be able to sell as much fish.

leaving the euro will mess us up even more. It wasnt the euro that got us into this mess so devaluing a new punt would not fix the actual problems (ie the price of investment) this is why zimbabwe is not a booming economy since devaluing its currency.

I think every party says they want to encourage indiginous industry. the specifics are. strange you chose Nokia as an example considering they lobbied the Finish government to introduce laws allowing them to electronically surveillance their own employees.

so who do you intend to vote for?

McDougal

sensibleken wrote: »

Well im all for nationalising corrib, but I dont think you understand how EU trade works.
Yes they take a lot of fish, in return we get farming subsidies. This is to ensure we dont become reliant on a fish based economy, over fish it and f*ck ourselves again.

Beside which. If we leave the EU most of the money we make will be from exports, which will not be as favoured as exports from EU countries, therefore there will be less of a market for them, therefore we will not be able to sell as much fish.

leaving the euro will mess us up even more. It wasnt the euro that got us into this mess so devaluing a new punt would not fix the actual problems (ie the price of investment) this is why zimbabwe is not a booming economy since devaluing its currency.

I think every party says they want to encourage indiginous industry. the specifics are. strange you chose Nokia as an example considering they lobbied the Finish government to introduce laws allowing them to electronically surveillance their own employees.

so who do you intend to vote for?

Even non-EU members have free trade with the EU. And the euro and ECB interest rates played a huge role in our crash.

I'll vote for whoever is on the left and anti-EU

Riskymove

McDougal wrote: »

Even non-EU members have free trade with the EU. And the euro and ECB interest rates played a huge role in our crash.

you dont even have to go that far...some countries are in the EU but not part of EMU

Robert Dublin

McDougal wrote: »

Even non-EU members have free trade with the EU. And the euro and ECB interest rates played a huge role in our crash.

I'll vote for whoever is on the left and anti-EU

So its a Nil pointe for labour then

McDougal

Robert Dublin wrote: »

So its a Nil pointe for labour then

Not even a transfer for those sell outs

Shea O'Meara

McDougal wrote: »

No you should vote but if you want change don't vote for Labour

So I'm lost...
I can't vote Labour because they are a vote for Kenny, who is the same as FFail?
What if I vote for FG even if I don't wanna, do I get Labour or does reality fold in on itself?

Shea O'Meara

Yeah they are like a navy and some kind of dark blue...

'A Fianna Fail-led Government inherited an economy in 1997 in pristine condition; thirteen years later a Fianna Fail-led Government pleads for bi-partisan cooperation in order to keep the IMF from the door. It is a scale of collapse not experienced by any other western democracy.......

In 1997 Fianna Fail and their P.D. allies inherited an economy in surplus. A dozen years later the economy is bust and our society is broken. For a dozen years those at the top of Fianna fail lived high on the hog because they thought they were worth it. Cowen, Martin, Ahern Dempsey, O’Cuiv, O’Donoghue and O’Dea. Today their reputation is in shatters. Their legacy has turned to dust. Some of them are so delusional they will fight their seats again; others of them will slink away into obscurity. The damage they have done will be reviled wherever green is worn. Obscurity would be a fitting end when compared to the unseemly antics of the man who presided over them. To end up in a Rupert Murdoch cupboard is the final insult to a people who gave him a lot of rope. “I think our friends in the News of the World still like us Taoiseach” Fianna Fail adviser Marty Whelan scribbled before the 2002 General Election. “I suggest you drop them a thank you note.” With O’Reilly and Murdoch supporting him. I am sure he thought he was unbeatable. And indeed he was. And now the former Leader of the Republican Party ends up playing hide and seek in a TV ad for The News of the World. You couldn’t make it up. There can be no recovery until they are gone. '
Pat Rabbitte Oct 14 2010
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/128705358645367161.html

Robert Dublin

Yeah the great monterist Ruari Quinn was good at balancing the books.
Such a pity he left the health service, education and social welfare underfunded.

McDougal

Robert Dublin wrote: »

Yeah the great monterist Ruari Quinn was good at balancing the books.
Such a pity he left the health service, education and social welfare underfunded.

Robert Dublin

McDougal wrote: »

Seanie Fitz, Gerry gannon, Paddy Kelly and all the 12.5% brigade must wake up every morning worshipping this image.
It is a pity he did nothing for the ordinary worker.

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

Yeah the great monterist Ruari Quinn was good at balancing the books.
Such a pity he left the health service, education and social welfare underfunded.

um. that government increased social welfare spending by reversing the FF cuts by its predecessor government.

You need to balance the books before you can spend money on anything. you cant spend money you dont have.

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

um. that government increased social welfare spending by reversing the FF cuts by its predecessor government.

You need to balance the books before you can spend money on anything. you cant spend money you dont have.

No it did not.
The cuts in Health were more severe under Quinn.
Sure the next time your mum is lying for 36 hours on a trolley in A & E she can always rest assured at least Ruairi balanced the books.
Oh I forget that probably wont happen as you and your labour party cronies have private medical insurance.
What is Labour's current health policy ??
Opus Dei is more open than Labour nowadays.

McDougal

sensibleken wrote: »

um. that government increased social welfare spending by reversing the FF cuts by its predecessor government.

You need to balance the books before you can spend money on anything. you cant spend money you dont have.

It's predecessor government? Labour were in that one too!

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

No it did not.
The cuts in Health were more severe under Quinn.
Sure the next time your mum is lying for 36 hours on a trolley in A & E she can always rest assured at least Ruairi balanced the books.
Oh I forget that probably wont happen as you and your labour party cronies have private medical insurance.
What is Labour's current health policy ??
Opus Dei is more open than Labour nowadays.

im not in labour, nor am i neccesarily going to vote for them.

You seem to be under the impression that the current state of the HSE is because of Ruairi Quinn. I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion, perhaps with some sources?

Edit: quick look at their website shows their policy on universal healthcare. As with all parties I would imagine a full manifesto will come out when an election is on the cards

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/broad_consensus_now_gathering_behind_.pdf

McDougal

Robert Dublin wrote: »

No it did not.
The cuts in Health were more severe under Quinn.
Sure the next time your mum is lying for 36 hours on a trolley in A & E she can always rest assured at least Ruairi balanced the books.
Oh I forget that probably wont happen as you and your labour party cronies have private medical insurance.
What is Labour's current health policy ??
Opus Dei is more open than Labour nowadays.

Labour support Fine Gael's "money follows the patient" ie privatisation

sensibleken

McDougal wrote: »

It's predecessor government? Labour were in that one too!

and bertie was minister for finance.

sorry it was actually the previous FF/PD government cuts that were reversed

sensibleken

McDougal wrote: »

Labour support Fine Gael's "money follows the patient" ie privatisation

where did you get that from? when have labour said they support privatising the health service

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

im not in labour, nor am i neccesarily going to vote for them.

You seem to be under the impression that the current state of the HSE is because of Ruairi Quinn. I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion, perhaps with some sources?

You seem very impressed by the Labour party and Ruari Quinns tax policy that helped increase the wealth of property speculators and non job creating capitalists at the expense of the ordinary workers.
Are you now too embaressed to say that you are going to vote for them.

FF, FG and labour have been in government and have / had a policy of private medicine and health underfunding,its basic stuff Viz : deprive the HSE of funds.
Labours potential future partners FG and their spokesman (Leo Varakar)stated recently that they were looking at cutting up to €8b in one year in both current and capital budjets in year 1 the bulk in health.

The policy of all three parties has been a policy of private health by both fiscal and taxation policies when in government.

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

You seem very impressed by the Labour party and Ruari Quinns tax policy that helped increase the wealth of property speculators and non job creating capitalists at the expense of the ordinary workers.
Are you now too embaressed to say that you are going to vote for them.

FF, FG and labour have been in government and have / had a policy of private medicine and health underfunding,its basic stuff Viz : deprive the HSE of funds.
Labours potential future partners FG and their spokesman (Leo Varakar)stated recently that they were looking at cutting up to €8b in one year in both current and capital budjets in year 1 the bulk in health.

The policy of all three parties has been a policy of private health by both fiscal and taxation policies when in government.

and you seem to be denying that unemployment went down severely from 94-97.

where are you getting their policy of private health from?

I have no love for varadkar at all. but you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that cuts in public spending is not going to happen or can be avoided all you want.

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

and you seem to be denying that unemployment went down severely from 94-97.

where are you getting their policy of private health from?

I have no love for varadkar at all. but you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that cuts in public spending is not going to happen or can be avoided all you want.

The increase in employment was global not because of any of the muppets in government. UK , European and USA all had larger employment increases than ours.

Well if I knew what Labours current policy is I could comment ?

Are you saying that the HSE should take a haircut of €2B / €3B in year 1
and is this current labour policy ??
The public should know.

McDougal

The official Labour policy is universal health insurance.

sensibleken

Robert Dublin wrote: »

The increase in employment was global not because of any of the muppets in government. UK , European and USA all had larger employment increases than ours.

Well if I knew what Labours current policy is I could comment ?

Are you saying that the HSE should take a haircut of €2B / €3B in year 1
and is this current labour policy ??
The public should know.

well if you dont know the policy then dont say they support 'private health' whatever the hell that means. thats making stuff up.

No, Id rather not see any cuts in healthcare but were BROKE.

A quick google turned up labour spokesman Jan O'Sullivan opposing cuts that Harney is trying to bring in in the west of ireland.

But im not hear to spoon feed you information. If you want to know what someones position is look it up youself. Im not in labour and as i said im not sure who to vote for in the next election.

Robert Dublin

sensibleken wrote: »

well if you dont know the policy then dont say they support 'private health' whatever the hell that means. thats making stuff up.

No, Id rather not see any cuts in healthcare but were BROKE.

A quick google turned up labour spokesman Jan O'Sullivan opposing cuts that Harney is trying to bring in in the west of ireland.

But im not hear to spoon feed you information. If you want to know what someones position is look it up youself. Im not in labour and as i said im not sure who to vote for in the next election.

I am talking about previous health policy with the tax breaks afforded to Private medicine. the non capping of Med 1 claims for the super rich, the non capping of private medical insurance for all plans not just basic.

Yes but if labour agrees a €3B / €4B cut we will have a health service on par with Somilia except for those with private medical cover.

I did look up the Labour website and there is no mention of current health policy or proposed cutbacks.
Glib soundbites from Jan O Sullivan does not constitute policy.
I am still awaiting your spoonfeeding of the justification of the Great Ruairi's policy of the top earners paying miniscule tax compared to the ordinary workers in yesterdays post.
I Know who I will be voting for and it certainly wont be a shower like labour.

Robert Dublin

Read this today in the Indo.
Fionnan Sheahan: 'Naked emperor' exposed as Gilmore's bluff is called
Monday October 18 2010

'A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.
'The Emperor is naked,' he said."
-- Hans Christian Andersen's 'The Emperor's New Suit'
EAMON Gilmore's lack of a credible cabinet of policies is the modern day political equivalent of the vain emperor's folly.
The attraction of the Labour Party leader has been his ability to tap into the mood of anger among the electorate with a Government that is well past its sell-by date.
He talks about the need to focus on jobs and growth as the means to restore the economy and how the coalition's approach has been all wrong from the start.
He frequently calls for a General Election and talks about becoming Taoiseach, thereby breaking the hold of the Civil War parties on that office.
He offered hope when the present Taoiseach provoked only dismay and the performance of the alternative was uninspiring.
He managed to paint a picture of a road to recovery from the malaise of 13 years of Fianna Fail in power -- but without prescribing the hard medicine.
He singularly avoided getting his hands dirty by putting forward areas where hard spending cuts hitting public services and middle-income tax hikes would be necessary.
His lack of policy was pointed to frequently in certain quarters.
But his inexorable rise in popularity continued unabated.
And then 'Black Thursday' happened and the full extent of the €50bn banking bailout became apparent. With it, came the knock-on effects of over €3bn in cuts and taxes being required in December's Budget and the need to outline a four-year plan to reduce the deficit.
The European Commission and the international markets needed to be convinced of the veracity of the claims being put forward both by the Government and the opposition parties.
Woolly figures about savings to be made from "efficiencies" and vague numbers around "abolishing tax exemptions" would no longer cut the mustard.
Where previously a disaffected public was the only audience that needed to be persuaded, there were now altogether more critical analysts.
Genuine plans would have to be presented for appraisal with sums involved far in excess than the previous experience.
The Labour leader ought to have realised that, once his party had reached such unheard of heights in the polls, his platform would come under ever greater scrutiny.
Buoyed by his standing in the polls, Gilmore fails to recognise the political climate has changed. He still thinks he can get away with ruling out a range of high-spending areas for cuts, while claiming his party is taking the responsible approach.
Gilmore's bluff has been called and it's not going to get any easier for him over the next six weeks.
Of course there will still be a following for somebody proposing there's an easy way out of the present difficulties. When you've already been hit hard by the recession, through job loss, mounting bills and threats to your home, the last thing you want to hear is that there's more pain to come.
It's easier just to block it all out and go for whoever is offering the effortless option.
But it's just not that simple.
The run-in to the four-year plan and the Budget will separate the chaff from the wheat when it comes to those willing to stand up to face the economic crisis with honesty.
In contrast to Labour, Fine Gael appears to be getting its act together.
The attacks on Enda Kenny's leadership will never cease, particularly from within his own party, but the heave against him failed and the grassroots revolution hasn't materialised.
Kenny is poised to be the Fine Gael leader going in to the next General Election and those seeking to serve as ministers in his government recognise that.
Over the course of the weekend, the party's brightest and best came out in order, singing from the same hymn-sheet and making it clear Fine Gael won't be found wanting when it comes to setting out a package of measures.
The line-up of the Fine Gael economic team of Michael Noonan, Richard Bruton and Leo Varadkar brings a formidable mix of experience, integrity and exuberance.
The party knows the only way to get the debate away from its party leader is through the displays of those around him and setting out policy.
The full extent of its plan to reduce the deficit has yet to be seen, but at least the party is coming at it with the correct attitude of acknowledging the reality.
The extent of the party's bravery will be tested when it publishes its public sector reform proposals. It will be a test of character to see if Kenny's party truly does grasp the nettle of contract changes, redundancies and pensions in the sector.
And Fine Gael has finally copped on to the fact that Labour is as much of an enemy to them at the next General Election as Fianna Fail.
Ruairi Quinn's 'helpful' offer of a pairing arrangement for Tanaiste Mary Coughlan three weeks ago was a kick in Fine Gael's teeth when the party was already on the ground.
It proved to Fine Gael that Labour was no ally as Gilmore's party was happy to profit from its ill fortune and even sparked a rethink of tactics within Kenny's ranks.
Unless Fine Gael definitively wins the next General Election, securing an unquestionable mandate to lead, the party's wish to pursue a policy of fiscal rectitude to control public spending and reduce the budget deficit will be hampered once again in Government by Labour's opposition to reductions in public services.
History will repeat itself just as in the 1980s, but the public can't say it hasn't been warned.
fsheahan@independent.ie
Irish Independent

steelcityblues

Nice of Mr. Gilmore's old comrade to remind readers of his past, this morning via the letters page.

I'm sure a token of appreciation has been sent to him from Labour HQ!


http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/