Impact of running for two weeks pre DCM ?

pgmcpq

Ok .... so let's say that running is out for two weeks prior to DCM. So taper is complete rest. Core/stabilty work continues, but no leg based excercise - no biking (and sadly no pool available).

What's the likely impact on race performance ?
Would the loss of taper time require a change of race goal ?

Gringo78

pgmcpq wrote: »

Ok .... so let's say that running is out for two weeks prior to DCM. So taper is complete rest. Core/stabilty work continues, but no leg based excercise - no biking (and sadly no pool available).

What's the likely impact on race performance ?
Would the loss of taper time require a change of race goal ?

Of you were intending to race it to your max capability, that max capability will now be lower than what it could have been.

If you had a specific time target, and that target was conservative, then you may still be able to achieve it. If your target time was optimistic before you got injured then you need to revise it down.

ecoli

You will lose race specific fitness for the first five days at a slow rate after this the effects will have a snowball effect.

You legs will also prob suffer a bit more on the day (may take longer to get into your rhythm etc.)

Las of all you are gonna suffer a hell of alot more the morning after

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news even 15 min jog every second/third day would help ALOT

pgmcpq

Gringo78 wrote: »

If you had a specific time target, and that target was conservative, then you may still be able to achieve it. If your target time was optimistic before you got injured then you need to revise it down.

ecoli wrote: »

You will lose race specific fitness for the first five days at a slow rate after this the effects will have a snowball effect.

You legs will also prob suffer a bit more on the day (may take longer to get into your rhythm etc.)

Las of all you are gonna suffer a hell of alot more the morning after

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news even 15 min jog every second/third day would help ALOT

Thanks guys ... Glad I asked ....though that is a grim outlook - worse than I would have guessed. Need to have heart to heart with the physio.

RacoonQueen

pgmcpq wrote: »

Ok .... so let's say that running is out for two weeks prior to DCM. So taper is complete rest. Core/stabilty work continues, but no leg based excercise - no biking (and sadly no pool available).

What's the likely impact on race performance ?
Would the loss of taper time require a change of race goal ?

From experience(twice), depending on how close to 100% you are on race day(in my two instances - I was still bruised and swollen then in the other I was felling better but no where near strong enough to run a marathon) - so I was no where near back to where I was and two weeks wasn't enough for me with either. If you're close to 100% and injury free and strong you'd still need to readjust your goal time after two weeks off.

The psychological impact, for me, was probably far greater than the physical, especially the second time. So you'll have to account for that as well and no matter how many times you tell yourself over the next two weeks that you won't still aim to get as close as possible to your original target time, you probably still will(I hit halfway in Barca in 1:47:xx with a 3:30ish even splits goal...).

If the bosses OK it and you can still run, the goal of your day will just be to enjoy. It's disappointing when you've worked hard to train for a specific goal only to see it snatched from you but you do get satisfaction from finishing a marathon when there was a chance you wouldn't make the start line. On the day, let your body dictate the pace, not your watch, not your head and definitely not your heart.

I wish I could say you'll be fine and you'll ace it and all, but I've two bad experiences(3 if you count the one I dropped out of). Hopefully you'll have a better day than either of mine. :pac:

pgmcpq

RacoonQueen wrote: »

From experience(twice), depending on how close to 100% you are on race day(in my two instances - I was still bruised and swollen then in the other I was felling better but no where near strong enough to run a marathon) - so I was no where near back to where I was and two weeks wasn't enough for me with either. If you're close to 100% and injury free and strong you'd still need to readjust your goal time after two weeks off.

The psychological impact, for me, was probably far greater than the physical, especially the second time. So you'll have to account for that as well and no matter how many times you tell yourself over the next two weeks that you won't still aim to get as close as possible to your original target time, you probably still will(I hit halfway in Barca in 1:47:xx with a 3:30 even splits goal...).

If the bosses OK it and you can still run, the goal of your day will just be to enjoy. It's disappointing when you've worked hard to train for a specific goal only to see it snatched from you but you do get satisfaction from finishing a marathon when there was a chance you wouldn't make the start line. On the day, let your body dictate the pace, not your watch, not your head and definitely not your heart.

I wish I could say you'll be fine and you'll ace it and all, but I've two bad experiences(3 if you count the one I dropped out of). Hopefully you'll have a better day than either of mine. :pac:

Cheers, I remember your Barcelona run. Brave effort - braver than I am. After one **** experience this year already I am not going to risk another - nor risk messing up the trip for the other guys. So ... regardless of the physio I will try a short run before the end of the week. If it fails I will admit defeat and go cheers Mrs P. Fingers crossed.
Worst comes to the worst I will bounce back - like the boys in Slovakia today ....:( ?

menoscemo

Really hope you get better. Your training has been briliant (if a little too much at times) and you really came on amazingly in this training period. Worst comes to the worst and you don't train at all, as long as your fit on the day you'll still break 3:30 at a canter (wasn't that the original goal?)

plodder

I think I remember reading in P&D that fitness is lost at much the same rate that it's gained at. I just can't believe given the training volume you've put in, that it would be all that disastrous. I think I mentioned on your log that I got an injury like that 2 1/2 weeks before my first marathon. Don't know if you've got it assessed yet, but mine was only a small tear. But, I was ok again for the race. That was 6 years ago now, but IIRC intensive ultrasound and electrical stimulation by the physio did the business.

Brianderunner

Got injured 10 days before Rotterdam this year after 4 months of solid training. Only managed one jog beforehand. I fell apart on race day and dropped out at 15 miles. As RQ said you are gone psychologically more than physically. A lot would depend on whether you are a naturally fit person or if you have to work to maintain fitness. Pulling out of a marathon is a horrible decision to make, you may hate yourself for weeks after, whereas if you give it a shot and it doesnt go well, at least you gave it a lash. Good luck with whatever you decide.

neilc

pgmcpq wrote: »

Ok .... so let's say that running is out for two weeks prior to DCM. So taper is complete rest. Core/stabilty work continues, but no leg based excercise - no biking (and sadly no pool available).

What's the likely impact on race performance ?
Would the loss of taper time require a change of race goal ?

Last year my taper was 3 weeks of no running as well. It definitely will affect your performance. My advice FWIW would be to run it just for the enjoyment and not PB's. I know how frustrated you must be.
Neil

runforrest

I suffered bad inversion injury 2 weeks before paris marathon did a small amt of bike work 2 short runs week before and did 3.38 dub 09 3.36 pb i agree most is psychological i went in with no expectations and ran on how i felt the muscles have memory

Krusty_Clown

Sorry to hear about the injury pgmcpq, but I wouldn't get down-trodden just yet. P&D would say that if you miss one week of training, you should just pick up where you left off. If you miss two weeks of training, then you might need to adjust your goals. If those two weeks happen to be during taper, it's a better (but not ideal) situation as you are maintaining, rather than building fitness.

I reckon you've trained to a level well beyond your target, so assuming that you get back out running after getting an all clear from the physio, I reckon you should stick to your guns. Obviously, if the injury is persistent, you should revise your goal. Listen to your physio, and if you need a physio over here, just holler. As others have pointed out, you can minimize the loss of fitness through other activities, and the rest in the legs might even do you some good.

geld

I'm out with a cold at the moment and haven't run since last Thrs. I think it is gone from the chest and am tempted to try a run tomorrow morning after reading this. Still have a tickly cough which I can't seem to shift.

Don't like the sound of not being able to run before DCM:(

pgmcpq

menoscemo wrote: »

Really hope you get better. Your training has been briliant (if a little too much at times) and you really came on amazingly in this training period. Worst comes to the worst and you don't train at all, as long as your fit on the day you'll still break 3:30 at a canter (wasn't that the original goal?)

Thanks I think the problem resulted from the lack of a proper warm up Sunday. Race required a ferry trip and the ferry did not leave enough time. So by the time I made it to the portopotty and dropped off baggage the race was underway. Since I was not pushing it I figured it would be ok. Then when it was over I mistook the strain for a cramp and promply tried to stretch it out - the worst thing I could have done.

plodder wrote: »

I think I remember reading in P&D that fitness is lost at much the same rate that it's gained at. I just can't believe given the training volume you've put in, that it would be all that disastrous. I think I mentioned on your log that I got an injury like that 2 1/2 weeks before my first marathon. Don't know if you've got it assessed yet, but mine was only a small tear. But, I was ok again for the race. That was 6 years ago now, but IIRC intensive ultrasound and electrical stimulation by the physio did the business.

Probably solerus muscle strain. Got five PT appointments between now and the flight to Dublin - the last one by a matter of hours ! However I have been told no running ... which led to the original question.

Brianderunner wrote: »

Got injured 10 days before Rotterdam this year after 4 months of solid training. Only managed one jog beforehand. I fell apart on race day and dropped out at 15 miles. As RQ said you are gone psychologically more than physically. A lot would depend on whether you are a naturally fit person or if you have to work to maintain fitness. Pulling out of a marathon is a horrible decision to make, you may hate yourself for weeks after, whereas if you give it a shot and it doesnt go well, at least you gave it a lash. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Uggh. Given the trip involved I'd rather avoid that scenario. Problem is my back up marathon Philly has sold out - first time ever as far as I know it has sold out this early. So if not Dublin .... but I am not really interested in doing Dublin unless I can give it a decent go. One walking wounded marathon a year is as much as I can take !

neilc wrote: »

Last year my taper was 3 weeks of no running as well. It definitely will affect your performance. My advice FWIW would be to run it just for the enjoyment and not PB's. I know how frustrated you must be.
Neil

Probably would skip it and focus on some shorter races later this year.

Bottom line - if I really cannot run for the next two weeks I will probably accept defeat. If I can get running at all by Friday ( 5 days) and if I can get in any kind of taper program as ecoli suggested above, and if I have no pain, and if I think I can do 3.30 - then I'll give it a crack. The leg has improved a lot even in the last two days (though I am getting funny lucks at work with the trouser leg rolled up and the heat/ice pack wrapped around my calf ) but I can still feel it. I'm reluctant to buck the PT's advice.

RacoonQueen

pgmcpq wrote: »

Cheers, I remember your Barcelona run. Brave effort - braver than I am. After one **** experience this year already I am not going to risk another - nor risk messing up the trip for the other guys. So ... regardless of the physio I will try a short run before the end of the week. If it fails I will admit defeat and go cheers Mrs P. Fingers crossed.
Worst comes to the worst I will bounce back - like the boys in Slovakia today ....:( ?

Thanks, brave is a nice way to put it.

Don't let a previous crappy experience play on your mind though, just go out and do the best you can do. Based on your training you'll probably still ace it. I know it sucks now, once you have your number in your hand though, the buzz kicks in again and you realise it's all going to be great.

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the injury pgmcpq, but I wouldn't get down-trodden just yet. P&D would say that if you miss one week of training, you should just pick up where you left off. If you miss two weeks of training, then you might need to adjust your goals. If those two weeks happen to be during taper, it's a better (but not ideal) situation as you are maintaining, rather than building fitness.

I reckon you've trained to a level well beyond your target, so assuming that you get back out running after getting an all clear from the physio, I reckon you should stick to your guns. Obviously, if the injury is persistent, you should revise your goal. Listen to your physio, and if you need a physio over here, just holler. As others have pointed out, you can minimize the loss of fitness through other activities, and the rest in the legs might even do you some good.

Well when I mentioned the Dublin trip to the PT he looked at me and said "I guess you have the flights booked." So ....while he soften the stance a little before I left he did repeat the "no running". Actually he began with "Look, I know what you runners are like ...." So while the leg seems much improved I have to be realistic about the outlook.

pgmcpq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

I'm not dead yet !