Give vitiman D to babies til 1 year old? (not enough sunshine in Ire)

worded

Is this a good idea?

OH has heard it from several people.

Nevyn

This seems to be the latest thing re feeding babies, given the fact my two grew up just fine with out it, I would not be putting much stock in it unless we had HSE and Drs running an awareness campagain. Only for you to be sure is you ask the local health nurse (baby nurse) or your gp about it, get a professional opinion.

Das Kitty

The nurses are advising it due to babies developing rickets recently. It's happening because children are being covered up from one end if the year to the other. The darker the skin the more sun exposure is needed for the body to metabolise vitamin D from sunlight. If you have a really light skinned baby and you bring them out on cloudy days without suncream they'll easily get enough.

PHNs are advising it for all babies now though to be on the safe side, which is understandable really.

seamus

Vitamin D is one of the fat-soluble vitamins which means that excess is stored in the body fat for later use. The obvious side effect here is that continual overdosing of vitamin D leads to a build-up of the vitamin in the body which is toxic and can lead to kidney damage and hypertension.

This is an especially large risk in babies who require approximately 10% of the vitamin D intake of an adult, so adult supplements are absolutely unsuitable for feeding to infants.

So always get a professional opinion and only use whatever supplements may be recommended by a health professional.

wolfpawnat

Are people aware that 30 min outdoors per day, not even in direct sunlight fulfills an adults requirements for sunshine Vit D. Baby should be fine with that

Cat Melodeon

Research shows that cases of rickets in Ireland are increasing.

Research fails to show that recent immigration flows have made the population of Ireland more diverse and that darker skinned babies are more susceptible to developing rickets in our northern climate.

A walk a day should be more than enough.

I breastfed and found trying to get the drops into my infant awkward, so I didn't bother and my (admittedly very fair-skinned) son has been fine. My PHN was very pro-Vit D, my GP was ambivalent.

Deliverance

Not a 100% sure on this but the vitamin cannot be processed by the body without sunshine as a catalyst. It is the only vitamin that is produced within the body with the help of the sun?

In the summer weather I plaster my child in sun lotion. But I wait awhile to let her absorb some rays so as the body can absorb some sun.

At the same time I wonder if Alaskan studies show the same health probs?

Das Kitty

No you don't need sunshine for vitamin D to be processed in the body. It can be ingested also.

They're finding it a problem amongst lighter skinned children in Australia though due to the success of their sun safety campaign.

sesna

seamus wrote: »

Vitamin D is one of the fat-soluble vitamins which means that excess is stored in the body fat for later use. The obvious side effect here is that continual overdosing of vitamin D leads to a build-up of the vitamin in the body which is toxic and can lead to kidney damage and hypertension.

This is an especially large risk in babies who require approximately 10% of the vitamin D intake of an adult, so adult supplements are absolutely unsuitable for feeding to infants.

So always get a professional opinion and only use whatever supplements may be recommended by a health professional.

Agreed, there is a baby liquid version available though, with a dropper bottle for dosing.

lonestargirl

Deliverance wrote: »

Not a 100% sure on this but the vitamin cannot be processed by the body without sunshine as a catalyst. It is the only vitamin that is produced within the body with the help of the sun?

Das Kitty wrote: »

No you don't need sunshine for vitamin D to be processed in the body. It can be ingested also.

Das Kitty is correct, vitamin D is produced by cholesterol in the skin upon exposure to sunlight but sunlight is not needed for it to be used/processed by the body.

This is one issue I won't need to worry about, I went to the beach last weekend without suncream (hey, it's October) and got burned.

Deliverance

Interesting. My dad worked outdoors all his life as a labourer. Plenty of sun. The Mam fed him with good food. Veg meat etc.

He ate like a champion and consumed the carrots, turnips meat etc after a hard days work. He was always a champion for alcohol as well though. Theirin lies the problem?

Khannie

Thaedydal wrote: »

This seems to be the latest thing re feeding babies, given the fact my two grew up just fine with out it, I would not be putting much stock in it unless we had HSE and Drs running an awareness campagain.

In fact our government does recommend supplementing 200 iu's of Vitamin D daily. If you are bottle feeding (exclusively) then there is no real need as all formula is currently fortified with enough to hit the 200iu's goal. Once you move off forumula though (or if you are breastfeeding, even partially), you should be supplementing.

I started a thread on this a while back (link). The long and short of it is that you should absolutely be supplementing vitamin D in this country (probably all of your life!). It is especially important during winter and spring months. It is effectively impossible to get enough sunlight at this lattitude during those months to meet your Vitamin D requirements. If you are using sun cream on your kids during summer months then you should be supplementing then too.

Just because your kids didn't get rickets, doesn't mean they had the ideal levels either.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Are people aware that 30 min outdoors per day, not even in direct sunlight fulfills an adults requirements for sunshine Vit D. Baby should be fine with that

That is during the summer months, on a sunny day, with arms and face exposed and no sun cream on. People forget the sun cream thing. If you have sun cream on your kids (and who doesn't?) you're preventing vitamin D synthesis.

Khannie

Just wanted to directly add this quote from the FSAI's report. I think it sums things up nicely:

We conclude that all infants aged 0-12 months living in Ireland would benefit from vitamin D supplementation.

That's was the end of that for me when I read it.

FSAI says 200iu's. American Paediatrics association has recently upped their recommendation to 400iu's. I go with the 400iu's for my own kids because we use sun cream religiously.

Grawns

I think we're all supposed to be taking a vitamin d supplement but I certainly give one to my 20 month old and have done since birth I gave the one with the dropper but after 3 months I switched to vitabotics wellbaby as it has lots of iron and zinc too. She was breastfed until 18 months.You can get 3 for 2 in boots and each bottle lasts a month. Bridget loves it. I guess if a baby is on vitamin d fortified formula it's not necessary though.

FoxT

I would not give a child ( especially < 2 years old) any vitamin supplements w/o consult with GP first. Caveat: If you are not a native to Ireland & have reason to believe that your child may have special nutritional needs, then
- Draw your GPs attention to your concerns
and
- If not satisfied, find another GP.

I hope this is helpful - I believe that children are very resilient if cared for properly but all parents have to be wary of 'big pharma'

- - FoxT

krankykitty

Deliverance wrote: »

Interesting. My dad worked outdoors all his life as a labourer. Plenty of sun. The Mam fed him with good food. Veg meat etc.

He ate like a champion and consumed the carrots, turnips meat etc after a hard days work. He was always a champion for alcohol as well though. Theirin lies the problem?

Did he get rickets?

Khannie

FoxT wrote: »

I would not give a child ( especially < 2 years old) any vitamin supplements w/o consult with GP first.

That's 50 blips for advice that the Food Safety Authority of Ireland are already giving you free of charge. It's like going to the doctor to ask if fried food is bad for you. I just don't see the point of it.

mohawk

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Are people aware that 30 min outdoors per day, not even in direct sunlight fulfills an adults requirements for sunshine Vit D. Baby should be fine with that

A baby under 6 months should never be exposed to direct sunlight! You aren't supposed to put suncream on them at that age.

Formula fed babies don't need to be supplemented but breastfed babies might be. If the mother is deficient then the milk will be too. Canada currently recommends that breastfed babies recieve a vitamin d supplement.

wolfpawnat

Khannie wrote: »

That is during the summer months, on a sunny day, with arms and face exposed and no sun cream on. People forget the sun cream thing. If you have sun cream on your kids (and who doesn't?) you're preventing vitamin D synthesis.

mohawk wrote: »

A baby under 6 months should never be exposed to direct sunlight! You aren't supposed to put suncream on them at that age.

If ye re-read my post, cloudy days are good too, direct sunlight is not necessary . More time than if it were sunny, but thats according to the medicine lecturers in UCD and RCSI. Others may have their own opinions

Khannie

wolfpawnat wrote: »

If ye re-read my post, cloudy days are good too, direct sunlight is not necessary . More time than if it were sunny, but thats according to the medicine lecturers in UCD and RCSI. Others may have their own opinions

It's not an opinion thing. I'm not saying you can't achieve getting your vitamin D from the sun during summer months (you definitely can, and I try to).

What I am saying is that kids (and especially infants) generally wont for one (or a combination of) a few reasons:

1) They're generally well covered up
or
2) They're wearing sunscreen
or
3) The sunshine is not strong enough (e.g. during winter)

As I said, during the winter months at our lattitude is is basically impossible to synthesise enough vitamin D, especially if you're not shiny white (anyone with dark skin will have real difficulty in Ireland).

Also, at the risk of repeating myself....the food safety authority recommends supplementing *all* children under 12 months with vitamin D. 200iu is a proven safe amount and would definitely prevent the occurance of rickets if all parents did it.

Here's another quote from that report:

This new vitamin D only supplement should be given to all babies irrespective of how they are fed so that they receive a minimum of 5ug of vitamin D every day from birth to 12 months of age.

Honestly folks....if you're not supplementing your infants with Vitamin D, there's a very good chance that they're deficient. You can get abidec vitamin D only drops in your local pharmacy which are aimed directly at infants and I would strongly urge you to do so.

implausible

This has all come about because incidents of rickets are on the increase and that is for two reasons:

1. Our population is changing due to immigration and obviously, dark-skinned people are at a far higher risk as Ireland doesn't have the amount of sun their skin requires

2. Irish people have become far more vigilant, even over-vigilant, about using sunscreen (Gwyneth Paltrow is a perfect example of what can happen when you use it too much), blocking the limited bit of sun we do get.

The statistics are up and that's why the FSAI have issued a blanket recommendation for Irish babies.

I'm breastfeeding my young fella and we go for a walk nearly every day for at least half an hour. I have no notion of giving him supplements that I feel he doesn't need. I hate to trot out the old argument of 'my parents managed fine without it', but the sun is the same as it always was, our generation is just spending far less time out in it!

fi1979

When my little girl was born in April there was no mention of vitamin D. However when the public health nurse came for the 3 month check-up, she came armed with pamphlets on vitamin D, and advised that all infants under the age of 12 months are now recommended to be given a vitamin D supplement daily.

Everyone is entitled to raise their kids as they see fit. However my tuppence worth is that I have to put my trust in the medical profession and their advice. Therefore I am getting every recommended vaccine for her and giving her every recommended supplement (which is just the vitamin D since I was told about it). I don't believe in dosing them wily nily with multivitamins, but if I am told by the doc or phn that she needs this and it is in her best interest, I will give it to her.

katkev

My doctor told me to give vit D from the first week until my on is a year old. I give him Abidec everyday, 5 drops, especially for babies...

cbyrd

Just had the 7 - 9 month development test and i was advised that it is now recommended for a 5microgram dose for babies up to 12 months. this is 2 drops of the specific vitamin D in the bottle with the dropper.
Baby skin is more sensitve and shouldn't be exposed to the sun for long without protection, here's a link so you can get the offical line on it


http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/healthpromotion/Vitamin_D_and_your_baby/Vitamin%20D%20Information%20for%20professionals.pdf

pickarooney

Many doctors here (300+ days of sunshine a year) insist that babies who don't have daily doses of Vitamin D from a bottle will suffer dire consequences. I've always thought is was utter bullѕhit but my girlfriend insisted on doing it with our first, just to be safe. We didn't bother with the second. Unless you're a dark skinned person living at the North Pole there's really no point at all IMO.

Nevyn

Well long gone are the days when the baby was dressed and wrapped up and stuck in the buggy outside the door for an hour or so each day and with more and more parents having cars babies are driven from a to b and then are back inside fairly swiftly, even a 10 mins walk to the local shop has people driving rather then walking these days so babies are in
and covered up more then ever.

Khannie

pickarooney wrote: »

Unless you're a dark skinned person living at the North Pole there's really no point at all IMO.

What are you basing that on?

It's utter nonsense by the way. During winter months at this lattitude you absolutely *cannot* synthesise enough Vitamin D to meet your requirements. It doesn't matter how shiny white you are. It's a limitation of our lattitude. That doesn't mean you're going to get rickets. In most people, vitamin D deficiency is asymptomatic.

bourgie

For what it is worth, I am in France and we are recommended to give Vit D supplements to breastfed babies and my GP asks at every visit about it. Not sure how long it has been in force but certainly since 2007.

pickarooney

Khannie wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

It's utter nonsense by the way. During winter months at this lattitude you absolutely *cannot* synthesise enough Vitamin D to meet your requirements. It doesn't matter how shiny white you are. It's a limitation of our lattitude. That doesn't mean you're going to get rickets. In most people, vitamin D deficiency is asymptomatic.

If it's asymptomatic what exactly is the problem?

Khannie

pickarooney wrote: »

If it's asymptomatic what exactly is the problem?

I laid that trap well...eh?

The problem is this: While you may not display signs of any illness (e.g. rickets) from a vitamin D deficiency, proper intake has been shown to positively affect many aspects of human health including your immune system and, among other things, cancer rates.

More information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Health_effects

So: Your children are probably Vitamin D deficient by virtue of where they live and the likelyhood that you cover them in sunscreen during the summer months (the time when they are capable of building up a reserve in their fat stores). Also, there are very few natural food sources of D3 (the good one). Now this deficiency is unlikely to present itself as a problem or disease per-se, but optimal levels can benefit them in lots of ways.

This applies to you too. It is highly likely that you are deficient and while taking in the RDA will prevent you from getting rickets, it is not the amount that you should be getting for optimal health. Personally, on days where I don't get a decent bit of sunshine, I take a vitamin D only supplement to the tune of 2500iu's. I reckon I should probably be taking more, but it's a safe amount for an adult to supplement and getting a vitamin D blood test (to see if I should be taking more) is pretty pricey. Having done quite a bit of reading I reckon that 2500iu's is a decent amount for me.

I make sure my kids get at least 400iu's per day each.

Carawaystick

What's the incidence of Rickets like among inuit or sami people?

Khannie

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2005/07/29/rickets-Inuit050729.html

Milk in the US and Canada is fortified with vitamin d too. Slightly wary of this except at very low levels. There was a public health disaster in Scotland in the 60s where foods were over fortified.

cynder

mohawk wrote: »

A baby under 6 months should never be exposed to direct sunlight! You aren't supposed to put suncream on them at that age.

.

I was told to leave my premature newborn in sunlight to help get rid of his Jaundice. Either to put him in front of the window or take him outside. I was told this on day 2 by the phn and had to do it until he was 6 weeks old, he was born in July 2005, so plenty of sunshine. Of course you shouldn't do it to a baby with the sun blazing, a bit of common sense, a bit of shde but also enough sun light. But i did use suncream on his exposed areas, no harm done he is a fine and healthy 5 year old.

ng1

Carawaystick wrote: »

What's the incidence of Rickets like among inuit or sami people?

The traditional Inuit and Sami diet is very rich in Vitamin D as Vitamin D is present in the oils and livers of cold-water fish.

Nevyn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11741262

12 November 2010 Last updated at 17:42 GMT

Increase in rickets in Southampton astonishes doctors

More than 20% of children tested for bone problems in Southampton showed signs of the crippling disease rickets, a health trust has revealed.

Consultant orthopaedic surgeon Prof Nicholas Clarke checked more than 200 of the city's children for bone problems caused by a lack of vitamin D.

He was astonished by the results, which, he said, were "very reminiscent of 17th Century England".

The disease can lead to deformities like bowed legs as well stunted growth.

Prof Clarke, based at Southampton General Hospital, said vitamin D supplements should be more widely adopted to halt the rise in cases.

The Department of Health said it would review the evidence.
'Middle class and leafy'

A lack of vitamin D can be caused by poor diets and insufficient exposure to sunlight, which helps the body synthesise the vitamin.

"A lot of the children we have seen have got low vitamin D and require treatment," he said.

"In my 22 years at Southampton General Hospital, this is a completely new occurrence in the south that has evolved over the last 12 to 24 months and we are seeing cases across the board, from areas of deprivation up to the middle classes.
Prof Nicholas Clarke Prof Clarke said vitamin D supplements should be more widely adopted to halt the rise in cases

"There is a real need to get national attention focused on the dangers this presents."

He added that the "modern lifestyle, which involves a lack of exposure to sunlight, but also covering up in sunshine" had contributed to the problem.

"The return of rickets in northern parts of the UK came as a surprise, despite the colder climate and lower levels of sunshine in the north, but what has developed in Southampton is quite astonishing," said Prof Clarke.

"We are facing the daunting prospect of an area like Southampton, where it is high income, middle class and leafy in its surroundings, seeing increasing numbers of children with rickets, which would have been inconceivable only a year or so ago."

Since the 1940s, it has been mandatory for all margarines, sold for domestic use in the UK, to be fortified with Vitamin D.

A Department of Health spokesman said the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition was due to review the evidence on Vitamin D, including options to improve its intake.

"The Government will consider the recommendations by the committee carefully," he said.

hunnymonster

I actually gave a lecture to primary schools kids on just this topic as part of science week last week. I was talking about bone health and how calcium and vit D relate to this. I have to say the kids were pretty clued in and knew what they should be eating and doing which is great. However, I did an exercise with them where I got them to analyse their diet from the previous 24 hours. About 25% of the 200 or so kids were not getting anything like enough Calcium and vitamin D in their diet.


OT: not related to vit D but the other really surprising finding I had was that the kids believed that adding sea salt to any food rather than table salt made it healthy. I didn't quite get to the bottom of it but I think they were getting sea salt and something like lo-salt confused.

Nevyn

Lack of iodine in sea salt compared to table salt.