GBB rifles?:)

Nonamigo

Seen today very nice GBB rifles. Has anybody had any experience using them? How practical are they with 30 rd mags? I know it gives more realism to airsoft but can they actually compete with AEGs with their massive mags? Felt in love with GBB don't want to regret after the first skirmish:)

evilrobotshane

They're more finicky than AEGs, less reliable, and there's a number of things that can go wrong with them - but if you're willing to put in the work they'll do the job. If you're wondering what it's like to skirmish with 30 rounds in a magazine, why don't you load 30 rounds into your AEG magazines and give it a go?

Lemming

Nonamigo wrote: »

How practical are they with 30 rd mags? I know it gives more realism to airsoft but can they actually compete with AEGs with their massive mags?

You can make the same argument for any sort of capacity mag below "hi-cap", and it's more down to your mindset and the style of play required to take advantage of what you have. So the other guy has a box mag, out play him, out think him, etc.

As shane said, load 30 rounds into a few mags, and have a go yourself if you feel up to it. Nice cheap way to get an idea of the difference.

evilrobotshane wrote: »

They're more finicky than AEGs, less reliable, and there's a number of things that can go wrong with them - but if you're willing to put in the work they'll do the job.

There are a number of things that can go wrong with AEGs too. GBBRs are, on the surface of it, generally more straight forward/simple in operation and easier to access internally than an equivalent AEG. You have no gear box or motor to worry about, or wiring, or batteries. You do however have a bolt and trigger assembly in their stead. The only really complex part of a GBBR is the magazine (M1 Garand being a direct exception), since you have seals and a valve to concern yourself with. But that is no different to any GBB pistol mag - it's just bigger.

GBBRs are, as a tech, still maturing by comparison to AEGs, and a lot of the cheaper options require work out of the box to make them skirmish-capable, which may give the impression that they're more finicky than an AEG. They are however more expensive given you either need to sort out a cheaper gun, or shell out for a better gun that is ready out of the box, and then the mags are expensive too by comparison to their AEG counterparts.

They are affected more notably by cold weather, and of course, can also be less consistent depending on what sort of gas you're feeding from, and how much of it is left.

As much as I say that GBBRs may be simpler/straight forward in operation than an AEG, I'd be hestitant to recommend one to a new player as their first gun because they are a maturing concept and you will need to do your own maintenance work when/where necessary, particularly with the mags to ensure the seals life span.

Nonamigo

Very informative answers. Thanks a bunch. I think I'll wait a bit when they become more popular amongst airsofters and then I'll get one beauty:) thanks a lot lads

Inari

Just to add to what Lemming said, GBBRs are relatively new, and there are definitely a good few negatives. However, you have a much more immersive gun, which is more realistic in terms of mechanism, recoil, rounds per mag, mag weight etc. It really depends on what you're looking for.

AEGs have a tonne of advantages, but they come at a price - less realistic etc. Those advantages fade when trying to make it more realistic. To put it bluntly, the main part of airsoft is personal selection; you pick what you want to use, and then you learn how to use it effectively. So if you'd prefer to fire a GBBR more than an AEG, and if you prefer the feel to it...then you have your answer. The rest is experimentation with playing style etc.

Riko

I just got myself a WE Scar.

But beware I am not a skirmer or something like that, I am just a target shooter, garden shooter, or however you wanna call it.
So, that is a difference, the purpose you gonna use it for.

Since I am a not a skirmer, I am not bound by fps rules.
And I am seeking for ways to get as many fps as I can with my gas blowback

About the rifle itself, I can only imagine that you have to maintain such a gun much more than a AEG. (but since I have no AEG, I dont know)
The looks of both types of rifles can be very close to the real thing, but a GBB rifle handles like a real one.
The bolt movement, the kick, its all mechanical, that was the main reason to go for a GBB rifle.

Big downside (in oposite to AEG's I can imagine) is the maintainance like I just said.
When I bought it, it wouldn't even shoot like it should, I got build up of bb's in the barrel.
But that was due to a lack of, silicone oil!
You would be surprised what a little silicone oil can do to a gbb rifle, it realy does wonders
Later on, I saw splinters around my mag feedlip, my trigger area, my valve area....
And that issue was due to the fact that the feeding lip on the mag sat 1mm to low, after some searching and forum help (thank god for internet huh) I found a modification topic. (not much work, just 1 screw, add a small piece of credit card and close it again)
So that problem is also gone.
With this particular gun you will have to buy some upgrade parts from RA Tech, because if you dont, you will brake those stock parts for sure!
I have made precaution and already installed them.
But now it seems there was 1 part that needed upgrading, the hammer. (there is a roller on the hammer wich is hold into place by a pin, but that pin does fall off all the time, and with the ratech part you got a hammer with a included roller + stronger)

So, yeah, the big downside with these gbb rifles is you have to pay more attention to them in terms of maintainance.
To be safe I always check the lower receiver and the valve area for something unusual and every 3 magazines I spray the valve area a bit with silicone oil just to keep is smooth.
Second "downside" is the replacing certain stock parts for stronger parts....
But once you done that and you maintain it like you should, you will have a lot of fun with this gun!
The big upside is, they look great (but okay so do AEG's), and they handle like the best! In other words, they are so realistic its scary!

When i think of it, the basic gun + the upgrades are still cheaper than a basic AEG
And its not like AEG's are bulletproof either....

Dunno about accuracy, I hear different things, but like I said, thats not important for me, since I am not skirming
As for now, I am only waiting for some spare mags, the ratech trigger upgrade parts and an extra valve (to tinker with it a bit so I get higher fps)
So for me the conclusion is Gas Blowback Rifles for the win!

MerryDespot

I have a couple of different GBBRs Nonamigo, and it's all to do with the type of GBBR you end up with.
For example, as Lemming has pointed out, the M1 Garand GBB (awesome awesome gun) is the most finicky GBBR internally (at least out of Western Arms, WE or AGM versions, which I've messed with). But it does use the same 8 round clip limit as the real steel. Lemming has advised that he has managed to skirmish with one - albeit with a heavy increase in the effort required to get a kill. I didn't get mine to skirmish - it was more a collectors piece. I couldn't do a Lemming with it - no way would I have the patience to skirmish with it against people with aegs.

I also have an AGM M4 and a WE Scar. The AGM M4 (basically a clone of the western arms) is heavily modified - it's accurate in semi auto mode - I'd say as much as my nicest aeg. In auto it's less accurate of course.

The WE is stock - in terms of accuracy it's less accurate than the AGM, but more accurate than the AGM was before it was upgraded. Both are green gas, which limits their usefulness in Irish weather - as they're more prone to cool down.

To be honest I prefer the AGM/Western Arms mechanism - but the newer WE open bolt design is similar and I'd think that the WE GBBRs work better out of the box.

In terms of skirmishing them - with the scar and m4 you have 30 round mags. That's certainly workable in terms of a skirmish - though remember that mags are expensive enough - expect to pay between 30 - 45 quid a mag depending on where you source them. To have a full loadout you'd be best to have 6 - 10 - and that's quite expensive.

All GBBRs require maintenance - I think Lemming has listed before what he does as part of his 'normal' routine when finished for the day using a GBBR. I tend to strip the gun down, clean it, oil/grease it (using the proper silicone oil and grease), reassemble it and clean/check the mags as well after each game. Aegs rarely require that level of work after a skirmish.

But I happily put up with these issues for the realism that you get from a GBBR. There's nothing quite as satisfying as the bolt locking back when your mag is empty, changing mag, and then hitting the bolt release to hear and feel the bolt slide closed!

Lemming

MerryDespot wrote: »

the M1 Garand GBB (awesome awesome gun) is the most finicky GBBR internally (at least out of Western Arms, WE or AGM versions, which I've messed with). But it does use the same 8 round clip limit as the real steel. Lemming has advised that he has managed to skirmish with one - albeit with a heavy increase in the effort required to get a kill. I didn't get mine to skirmish - it was more a collectors piece. I couldn't do a Lemming with it - no way would I have the patience to skirmish with it against people with aegs.

M1 Garand by Marushin; none of this lower classes WA/WE/AGM malarky

What restricted me most was actually the lack of magazines. I only have one, so I was constantly having to reload every 8 rounds which drastically reduced both the level of fire I could put down (8mm is rather notable when you're on the receiving end) and the rate of said fire. And all said and done, shame you haven't skirmished yours Merry ... getting a kill with it is immensely gratifying, especially when it's something like someone bolting across ground and you lead them with the barrel before pulling that trigger.

That everyone else had AEGs - and a mixture of hi/mid caps didn't faze me in the slightest. It's more down to the mindset of the player than anything else. Just remember, if you're firing semi auto and your target is p*ssing away at you on full auto, he'll run out of ammo before you do ... ROF means squat, other than how quickly the mag runs dry, and it only takes one to get a hit. But that's another discussion and off-topic for this thread.

I also have an AGM M4 and a WE Scar. The AGM M4 (basically a clone of the western arms) is heavily modified - it's accurate in semi auto mode - I'd say as much as my nicest aeg. In auto it's less accurate of course.

The WE is stock - in terms of accuracy it's less accurate than the AGM, but more accurate than the AGM was before it was upgraded. Both are green gas, which limits their usefulness in Irish weather - as they're more prone to cool down.

I've not used a WE beastie yet, although my AGM m4 has been pulled apart and stock parts have been modified for performance. It was dirt cheap to buy, but to get it into a skirmishable state, a lot of work was required and I'd have been better off holding off and getting something ready out of the box. As the expression goes; "Buy cheap, buy twice".

All GBBRs require maintenance - I think Lemming has listed before what he does as part of his 'normal' routine when finished for the day using a GBBR. I tend to strip the gun down, clean it, oil/grease it (using the proper silicone oil and grease), reassemble it and clean/check the mags as well after each game. Aegs rarely require that level of work after a skirmish.

As much as the above reads like much work, most of the regular maintenance work you'll need to do is on the magazines, which are arguably the most complex part of any GBBR (M1 not withstanding of course). You'll periodically need to pull the GBBR itself apart in detail, or if you've really put it through the environmental wringer (mud & crap, etc.), but breaking down most GBBRs is less daunting than their equivalent AEG in my opinion.

Riko

MerryDespot wrote: »

But I happily put up with these issues for the realism that you get from a GBBR. There's nothing quite as satisfying as the bolt locking back when your mag is empty, changing mag, and then hitting the bolt release to hear and feel the bolt slide closed!

thats the best summary one can make about GBBR

MerryDespot

Lemming wrote: »

As much as the above reads like much work, most of the regular maintenance work you'll need to do is on the magazines, which are arguably the most complex part of any GBBR (M1 not withstanding of course). You'll periodically need to pull the GBBR itself apart in detail, or if you've really put it through the environmental wringer (mud & crap, etc.), but breaking down most GBBRs is less daunting than their equivalent AEG in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more Lemming - I still can't get my head around taking apart aegs, but GBBRs are a lot easier to get to grips with when you take them apart.

I agree on the Marushin M1 too - it's less to do with the limitations of the gun and more of my own lack of patience as a player. That and the fact that I haven't been able to get any 8mm bbs in Dublin in ages, and I'm all out...

The only thing that nacks me off about the AGM is the body finish. It's horrible black with no trades and it looks fairly 'replica-ish', if that makes sense. I'm toying with the idea of getting a proper trade-stamped replacement body, but I haven't got around to it yet.

War Machine 539

Riko wrote: »

I just got myself a WE Scar.

But beware I am not a skirmer or something like that, I am just a target shooter, garden shooter, or however you wanna call it.
So, that is a difference, the purpose you gonna use it for.

Since I am a not a skirmer, I am not bound by fps rules.
And I am seeking for ways to get as many fps as I can with my gas blowback

About the rifle itself, I can only imagine that you have to maintain such a gun much more than a AEG. (but since I have no AEG, I dont know)
The looks of both types of rifles can be very close to the real thing, but a GBB rifle handles like a real one.
The bolt movement, the kick, its all mechanical, that was the main reason to go for a GBB rifle.

Big downside (in oposite to AEG's I can imagine) is the maintainance like I just said.
When I bought it, it wouldn't even shoot like it should, I got build up of bb's in the barrel.
But that was due to a lack of, silicone oil!
You would be surprised what a little silicone oil can do to a gbb rifle, it realy does wonders
Later on, I saw splinters around my mag feedlip, my trigger area, my valve area....
And that issue was due to the fact that the feeding lip on the mag sat 1mm to low, after some searching and forum help (thank god for internet huh) I found a modification topic. (not much work, just 1 screw, add a small piece of credit card and close it again)
So that problem is also gone.
With this particular gun you will have to buy some upgrade parts from RA Tech, because if you dont, you will brake those stock parts for sure!
I have made precaution and already installed them.
But now it seems there was 1 part that needed upgrading, the hammer. (there is a roller on the hammer wich is hold into place by a pin, but that pin does fall off all the time, and with the ratech part you got a hammer with a included roller + stronger)

So, yeah, the big downside with these gbb rifles is you have to pay more attention to them in terms of maintainance.
To be safe I always check the lower receiver and the valve area for something unusual and every 3 magazines I spray the valve area a bit with silicone oil just to keep is smooth.
Second "downside" is the replacing certain stock parts for stronger parts....
But once you done that and you maintain it like you should, you will have a lot of fun with this gun!
The big upside is, they look great (but okay so do AEG's), and they handle like the best! In other words, they are so realistic its scary!

When i think of it, the basic gun + the upgrades are still cheaper than a basic AEG
And its not like AEG's are bulletproof either....

Dunno about accuracy, I hear different things, but like I said, thats not important for me, since I am not skirming
As for now, I am only waiting for some spare mags, the ratech trigger upgrade parts and an extra valve (to tinker with it a bit so I get higher fps)
So for me the conclusion is Gas Blowback Rifles for the win!

Where did you get that silencer?

Riko

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Where did you get that silencer?

WGC shop, I just took the longest silencer available
335 mm I think it was.

There were 2 335 mm if I remember correctly, I think I have the g&p one....

War Machine 539

How much did it cost? Im looking for one for a sniper project? Sweet gun man by the way, beautiful setup!

Riko

War Machine 539 wrote: »

How much did it cost? Im looking for one for a sniper project? Sweet gun man by the way, beautiful setup!

thx Here's a sum up of the parts

from redwolf
- WE Scar 225 euro
- Ra Tech upgrade kit for WE Scar 110 euro

from WGC:
- Ra Tech Long (500mm) inner barrel 50$
- G&P Scorpion Series Aiming Laser with Flashlight 144$
- Spartan Doctrine silencer 335mm 16.2$

from ehobbyasia:
- G&P Knight's Type Sniper Version Mount 64.99$
- G&P M4 Extension Sniper Mount Base Type A 64.99$
- Scope 85$
- Silverback bipod 28.5$

from Airsoftglobal:
- WE Outer barrel for M4 (clockwise) 12$

Total: 335 euro + 333 euro (WGC - ehobbyasia - airsoftglobal) = € 668


Ordering next week:
- extra mags: 2 gas and 1 co2
- RA Tech trigger kit
- madbull propane adaptor
- extra RA Tech Npas valve (for fps tuning)
- extra bolt carrier and (evike)
- extra charging handle (evike)

War Machine 539

Figured the silencer was Spartan doctrine! I have been cannabalizing parts for My own sniper variations! Im going to have to buy a few as barrel extensions! :P