Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF

Steyr

NEW DELHI:

Top-notch fighters and other aircraft from India and UK will match their combat skills in the `Indra-Dhanush' joint exercise at Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal later this month.

While the British Royal Air Force will deploy their spanking new Eurofighter jets for the exercise slated to begin from October 20, the IAF fleet will be led by the `air dominance' Sukhoi-30MKI fighters.

"The exercise will be held in an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) environment, with air defence being a major thrust area. We will be fielding different types of our fighters," said a senior official.

Both the Indian and British forces are also expected to use their mid-air refuelling aircraft, like the IL-78 and VC-10 tankers, during the combat manoeuvres.

"The aim of the joint exercise is to learn from each other and enhance mutual operational understanding. With every exercise, IAF has gained valuable experience and gained respect as a highly-professional and motivated force," the official added.

The exercise comes at a time when the $10.4 billion project to acquire 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for IAF is in the final stages of selection process.

Apart from Eurofighter, the other five contenders in the hotly-contested race to bag the lucrative MMRCA project are the F/A-18 `Super Hornet' and F-16 `Falcon' (both US), Gripen (Swedish), Rafale (French) and MiG-35 (Russian).

A major Indo-UK defence deal has been the `Hawk' AJT (advanced jet trainer) project. As reported earlier, India is going in for another 57 Hawks as a "follow-on" order to the ongoing Rs 8,000 crore AJT project, finalised in March 2004 with BAE Systems, under which IAF is already getting 66 Hawks.

Blazer

Amazing that the F22 won't be there..guess the EU don't want the stealth fighter making a joke of the eurofighter..
probably why the F16c and F18 are there..definitely not as manoeuvrable as the EF but the F18 would might give it a bit of trouble..reckon this is just an pr exercise for the eurofighter in the hope they can flog a few more to gullible politicians/nations.
Fancy the SU-30s to take down more than a fair share of the EF..especially if their pilots are half decent.

Steyr

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Amazing that the F22 won't be there..guess the EU don't want the stealth fighter making a joke of the eurofighter..
probably why the F16c and F18 are there..definitely not as manoeuvrable as the EF but the F18 would might give it a bit of trouble..reckon this is just an pr exercise for the eurofighter in the hope they can flog a few more to gullible politicians/nations.

Wrong.

The F-22 wont be there as firstly this is an Indian Air Force/Royal Air Force Exercise only and secondly under US Law the F-22 is not capable of being sold overseas due to the amount of Technology on board here that the US dont want anybody else to have.

Japan asked to buy it but the US said no and even if the ban was lifted they dont make them anymore and even if the USAF gave some up to be sold to anybody friendly they would still be buying a "watered down" version of an F-22.

Blazer

Steyr wrote: »

Wrong.

The F-22 wont be there as firstly this is an Indian Air Force/Royal Air Force Exercise only and secondly under US Law the F-22 is not capable of being sold overseas due to the amount of Technology on board here that the US dont want anybody else to have.

Japan asked to buy it but the US said no and even if the ban was lifted they dont make them anymore and even if the USAF gave some up to be sold to anybody friendly they would still be buying a "watered down" version of an F-22.

I'd bet they'd sell it to Israel
Considering they're buying the F35 off them I don't see the point of withholding the F22.

Captain Chaos

Steyr wrote: »

they dont make them anymore and even if the USAF gave some up to be sold to anybody friendly they would still be buying a "watered down" version of an F-22.

They are still making them, they are not all delivered to the USAF yet (they have about 162 out of the 187 on order). They will all be delivered at the end of next year or 2012. Production of some long lead time parts has finished however as they are all ready.

Congress has ruled to keep the F-22 jigs and tooling in storage (is was assumed that once F-22 production finished the tooling will be destroyed) so if needed in future they can start building again but if the decision were given it would be very expensive and take some years before the next was delivered but at least the option is now there.

Steyr

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They are still making them, they are not all delivered to the USAF yet (they have about 162 out of the 187 on order). They will all be delivered at the end of next year or 2012. Production of some long lead time parts has finished however as they are all ready.

Am fully aware of that, but i meant it in a General way of saying it that it is done as soon as the last batch have been built it's game over which it is technically now anyway.

pclancy

Its very sad a country that has 400+ million of its population below the poverty line can spend $10.4 billion on its air force...

Steyr

Sc@recrow wrote: »

I'd bet they'd sell it to Israel
Considering they're buying the F35 off them I don't see the point of withholding the F22.

Not a hope, Japan is a huge buyer of US Mil equipment too and Aircraft built under licence etc so even if they say no to Japan then the likes of anybody like Isreal or even Australia wont get a look in.

Blazer

that's a pity..I'd have liked to see other airforces buying them and seeing more of them at airshows etc..
Hadn't realised they was practically stopped building them as it's been a while since I followed their progress on it.

N7777G

The Indian Air Force & RAF took part in similar exercises at Waddington in 2007.

some pics ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3219986119/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3500640743/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3500642149/

Tenger

Sc@recrow wrote: »

I'd bet they'd sell it to Israel

Strangely I would assume they would sell to Japan quicker than they would sell to Israel. With the IDF more probable to get into a shooting war with their neighbours the chances of 'losing' an F-22 would be greater. The USA would go to great lengths to deny any wreckage to another nation, I believe they bombed/thermite charged the F-117 shot down over Serbia

And the JSF is of a lower magnitude of tech to the F-22. They are designed as 1st day of war air superiority fighters. In an ideal situation the F-22s will effectively give the US the upper hand in any future war right from the start.

Edit: OK hands up , my memory of dodgy war book is unreliable. I still think the 'theory' of the fictional F-19 lives on in the F-22.

And Red Storm Rising reads like a boys own 1950s adventure. Must dig it up again.

cyrusdvirus

Tenger wrote: »

Strangely I would assume they would sell to Japan quicker than they would sell to Israel. With the IDF more probable to get into a shooting war with their neighbours the chances of 'losing' an F-22 would be greater. The USA would go to great lengths to deny any wreckage to another nation, I believe they bombed/thermite charged the F-117 shot down over Serbia

And the JSF is of a lower magnitude of tech to the F-22. They are designed as 1st day of war air superiority fighters. In an ideal situation the F-22s will effectively give the US the upper hand in any future war right from the start.

I think the F-117 was designed for this purpose too. I can remember reading Red Storm Rising many years ago (still a good read) and the F-117 were able to take out the Soviet AWACS very early on thus givne the NATO forces the upper hand in the air war.

Ah tenger...PLEASE!!!:p

That 'version' of the stealth fighter wasn't an f117... they were talking about bell shapes and after burners and aam's and 2 seaters and everything...

Wiki.........and yes, i know its not the most reliable source in the world......BUT WERE TALKING ABOUT A FICTIONAL AIRCRAFT HERE!!! wrote:

In his 1986 novel Red Storm Rising, Tom Clancy featured the "F-19A Ghostrider" (nicknamed "Frisbee" by the pilots and crew) as a secret weapon used to combat a Soviet invasion of Germany. This vehicle was considerably more capable than the F-117, being a supersonic fighter rather than a subsonic precision bomber. The F-19A as described in the book featured underwing hardpoints for various ordnance, including air-to-air missiles and BLU-107 Durandal runway-cratering bombs. The aircraft also has circular wings instead of angular ones, hence the name.

Steyr

N7777G wrote: »

The Indian Air Force & RAF took part in similar exercises at Waddington in 2007.

some pics ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3219986119/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3500640743/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3500642149/

Exercise INDRA DHANUSH

SNAKEDOC

i didn't think the Americans participated in any foreign events. i thought that they only used red flag as their training base and invited the Indians Brits and others to take part. they have what constitutes as half of the European land mass as a shooting range why go anywhere else. about the f22 going to any events other than air shows doubtful as they haven't even finished the full handover and training of all aircrew's yet it would b embarrassing to say the least if they showed up with their shiny new planes only to have their arses handedd to them by a few Indians in out of date mig's or sukhoi's

Steyr

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

i didn't think the Americans participated in any foreign events. i thought that they only used red flag as their training base and invited the Indians Brits and others to take part.

Its to do with Familiarisation/Similar Training Overseas like when they go to Maple Flag in Canada. It's also good for all the associated Units for Logistical/Tactical Deployments like C-17 wings that would transport spares etc.

They do alot of "COPE" Exercises such as "COPE INDIA", "COPE JADE", "COPE NORTH", "COPE THUNDER", "COPE TIGER".