** How, Who and Where the debate with Paul Gogarty will work.... PLEASE READ.

DeVore

Hello there. Here's the things you need to know.

1. On Wednesday there will be a subforum created here for the Q&A with Deputy Gogarty. In that forum the following people will debate with him and conduit questions from the floor (aka the main forum):

Nijmegen
Gandalf
oppenheimer1
donegalfella
Terry
bijapos
deelite
Johnny Skeleton
Scofflaw


I will host and try to keep things running properly. I may also engage in the debate and conduit questions.

2. There will be several broad topics chosen from the suggested topics thread created in the subforum. Probably 3-5 of them.

3. There will be corresponding "round-table" threads created here for general discussion and response from the public.

4. The debate will last all of Wednesday and possible roll into Thursday.

5. Normal civility rules will apply.

Questions?

DeV.

Einhard

This might sound like a silly question, but is this actually going to be live? In real time? And if so, shouldn't he have better things to be doing with his time?








*shields himself from the backlash.

Nijmegen

Why shouldn't a TD take 1 day out of 365 to devote to answering questions from the people?

dan_d

Can't have it everyway...it's better that they engage with the public than not I suppose.
Fair play to Boards for organising it. DeVore, do you get the credit?:D

DeVore

It will be as live as possible, Mr Gogarty is in and out of the dail but will be grabbing time in between, so there may be intermittent pauses and delays but otherwise yes, its live.

DeV.

Darsad

DeVore wrote: »

Mr Gogarty is in and out of the dail

Thankfully it looks like it wont be too long until he and the rest of his cult are permanently OUT !!

Riskymove

will the swear filter be turned off?

DeVore

You know when you use emotive words like "cult" I'm sure in your mind it sounds cool but to me anyway you sound foolish and emotive. The impact of your point (not that you actually expressed a point but lets pretend for the sake of elucidation) is lessened because the mental image of you changes from a reasonable person into someone who's a bit of a frother and who likes to make wild sweeping statements driven not by their intellect but by their unbridled emotions coupled with a lack of eloquence.
Any point you may have had doesnt have an impact because people dont listen to that sort of person.

I've no particular love of the current government, but I'm not going to lower myself to invective... it lets them walk away from engagement with me too easily.

DeV.

DeVore

Riskymove wrote: »

will the swear filter be turned off?

No. Normal rules will apply, it will just be read only for anyone not on the list of debaters.

DeV.

Darsad

Im sorry but I certainly dont use the word cult to sound cool .
The definition of cult is an organisation or gathering who,s beliefs or practices are viewed as strange by others.
Given the mess we are in the furore caused by ongoing green ineptitude, ill advised and conceived policies heaping further costs and taxes on society combined with the caliber of their membership the word cult elequently expressed or not is in my opinion a fitting tag for the Greens.

DeVore

Pull the other one mate, its got bells on it....

DeV.

johnnyskeleton

If I have to do this debate, can you at least change my username to "Deputy_Stagg" for the day?

Not intentionally jabbing with a stick here, but who will be the moderators for this forum on the day? Will Scofflaw have full moderator powers, and how will that affect him impartiality? He is known to be a green supporterl.

Lenny Lovett

Nijmegen wrote: »

Why shouldn't a TD take 1 day out of 365 to devote to answering questions from the people?

Perhaps he could take his one of 365 days to answer our questions on a Saturday or Sunday rather than dodging being diverted from the important Dail business on Wednesday given that they only sit for two and a half out of seven days of the week.

Papa Smut wrote: »

Not intentionally jabbing with a stick here, but who will be the moderators for this forum on the day? Will Scofflaw have full moderator powers, and how will that affect him impartiality? He is known to be a green supporterl.

I'm surprised Scofflaw is debating "against" Mr Gogarty too. How many other Greens are propping him up in this debate?

Laminations

Just re the above, DeVore I know the interviewers disclosed party affiliations, leanings to you but could the rest of us get a breakdown for interpretation of any possible biases- Scofflaws views are well know, and I'm somewhat aware of the leanings of the other debaters but it'd be nice to have some more info

Overheal

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Perhaps he could take his one of 365 days to answer our questions on a Saturday or Sunday rather than dodging being diverted from the important Dail business on Wednesday given that they only sit for two and a half out of seven days of the week.

Seriously,

How often do you get to converse with your elected officials? How often am I always reading rabble about Politicians ignoring their constituency. And now that they're paying attention and sitting down to talk with the constituency you find something unsettling about that..

I'm surprised Scofflaw is debating "against" Mr Gogarty too. How many other Greens are propping him up in this debate?

So only people who think someone is absolute bile should be allowed to speak to such persons?

I'm not allowed to be critical of an official that I elected into office? Im not allowed to ask them questions? After I vote them in and give them my support I should just shut up sit down and let them do as they please without keeping involved? Does an employer not supervise an employee?

DeVore

Fair enough, I will ask. I cant force them but I dont think any have existing strong ties to the Green part. I'll ask people to declare any party or political affiliations at the start of the day.

Personally, I have none.


DeV.

DeVore

Here here overheal... I guess I can please some of the people some of the time haha...


I've chosen these people to be as broad a cross section of posters here and the public at large from people who work in the home to political activists from entrepreneurs to salary workers, from the staunchly opposed to the undecided to the aligned with the GP, though it must be said, more of the former and fewer of the latter.

DeV.

Lenny Lovett

Overheal wrote: »

Seriously,

How often do you get to converse with your elected officials? How often am I always reading rabble about Politicians ignoring their constituency. And now that they're paying attention and sitting down to talk with the constituency you find something unsettling about that..

I just find it unnecessary for him to do so on a day when he should be attending to Dáil business. Also many of us will not be able to follow the debate through the day due to work commitments but then again he's not addressing us all is he? He's only debating with a small few contributors... A weekend day would've been better.

Overheal wrote: »

So only people who think someone is absolute bile should be allowed to speak to such persons?

I'm not allowed to be critical of an official that I elected into office? Im not allowed to ask them questions? After I vote them in and give them my support I should just shut up sit down and let them do as they please without keeping involved? Does an employer not supervise an employee?

Now you're just being silly!

Liam Byrne

DeVore wrote: »

I've chosen these people to be as broad a cross section of posters here and the public at large from people who work in the home to political activists from entrepreneurs to salary workers, from the staunchly opposed to the undecided to the aligned with the GP

That's how it came across to me, and it'll be interesting if some of the more objectionable stances and policies are defended by supporters, and - given some of the Green approach re (for example) rural citizens and the apparent Green two-fingers to anyone who dares to live outside a city - whether they'll actually realise that being in Government involves representing every citizen or stick to their core support and agenda.

Yitzhak Rabin

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I'm surprised Scofflaw is debating "against" Mr Gogarty too. How many other Greens are propping him up in this debate?

Why should it be 10 posters "against" Mr. Gogarty. As far as I am aware the point of this exercise isn't so we can have a good aul rant at a TD. A discussion is much more interesting when it encompasses all viewpoints and not just two polar opposites. Regardless of whether you like his politics or not, no one can deny Scofflaw is one of the most articulate posters here, and there is no reason why he shouldn't be part of the discussion.

Overheal

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I just find it unnecessary for him to do so on a day when he should be attending to Dáil business. Also many of us will not be able to follow the debate through the day due to work commitments but then again he's not addressing us all is he? He's only debating with a small few contributors... A weekend day would've been better.

If you're talking about the limits on whom would be speaking with Mr. Gogarty, the model was chosen to stop what would otherwise become a needless volume of rabble. Case and point: After Hours.

If you feel your questions and concerns aren't being addressed in the debate I believe there is already a thread up where you can pose your questions, and as DeV has said here there will be an Open-forum thread for each topic, that any registered user can comment on and participate in. Despite what way you want to swing it though, he will be adressing the public, even if moderation dictates the signal-to-noise ratio and trolling be controlled by setting up a subforum for the event.

And perhaps Mr. Gorgarty will return for a follow-up day in the future if it goes well? I suppose it could be a Saturday. Bearing in mind that the day was probably picked based on traffic. It's funny how most of us are on here during the work day.

It's not as though DeV created the format of the debate to specifically favor the Green Party or anything. In fact it was DeV that raised the first rather public objection the format of the debate is deliberated only to be fair and impartial, as you would expect in any Debate set-up.

Now you're just being silly!

In what manner?

yekahs wrote: »

Why should it be 10 posters "against" Mr. Gogarty. As far as I am aware the point of this exercise isn't so we can have a good aul rant at a TD. A discussion is much more interesting when it encompasses all viewpoints and not just two polar opposites. Regardless of whether you like his politics or not, no one can deny Scofflaw is one of the most articulate posters here, and there is no reason why he shouldn't be part of the discussion.

I don't know why, but he just seems so.... cordial?

Thomas Bateman

DeVore wrote: »

Hello there. Here's the things you need to know.

1. On Wednesday there will be a subforum created here for the Q&A with Deputy Gogarty. In that forum the following people will debate with him and conduit questions from the floor (aka the main forum):

Nijmegen
Gandalf
oppenheimer1
donegalfella
Terry
bijapos
deelite
Johnny Skeleton
Scofflaw


I will host and try to keep things running properly. I may also engage in the debate and conduit questions.

2. There will be several broad topics chosen from the suggested topics thread created in the subforum. Probably 3-5 of them.

3. There will be corresponding "round-table" threads created here for general discussion and response from the public.

4. The debate will last all of Wednesday and possible roll into Thursday.

5. Normal civility rules will apply.

Questions?

DeV.

I for one would like to ask him why the greens are upholding the no good nicks in FF and keeping them in power. Are we allowed ask that, I wonder. :rolleyes:

Yitzhak Rabin

Overheal wrote: »

I don't know why, but he just seems so.... cordial?

Thats what you think, p1ss him off enough and he gets all moderately on your @rse! :pac:

Overheal

Thomas Bateman wrote: »

I for one would like to ask him why the greens are upholding the no good nicks in FF and keeping them in power. Are we allowed ask that, I wonder. :rolleyes:

Post your questions for Paul Gogarty HERE.

@Lenny Lovett: again, Case and Point

Thomas Bateman

yekahs wrote: »

Thats what you think, p1ss him off enough and he gets all moderately on your @rse! :pac:

Yes he is quite an angry man.

K-9

Good God but some people will moan about everything.

I really think Liam Byrne should be involved in this debate..(if possible)..

Terry

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If I have to do this debate, can you at least change my username to "Deputy_Stagg" for the day?

With al due respect, and in un-boardsie language, **** you johnnyskeleton.

Papa Smut wrote: »

Not intentionally jabbing with a stick here, but who will be the moderators for this forum on the day? Will Scofflaw have full moderator powers, and how will that affect him impartiality? He is known to be a green supporterl.

I have been given the opportunity to pose questions.
DeVore knew what he was doing when he chose people.
Do you honestly think that DeV would have chosen me if he was going to censor people?
Do you really think that I'm going to tow the company line?

If I'm censored, then I'll head out to deputy Gogarty's clinic and ask my questions in person.
I will not allow boards to censor me or my questions when it comes to politics. I trust that DeV won't censor my questions.

With all due respect, Deputy Stagg is my local TD. He has done quite a lot for me and my family for the past 30 years.
I've been eligable to vote for 16 years, and I have voted for Emmet Stagg every time.
I take issue with deputy Gogarty's "fúck you" comment. I feel insulted as a supporter of Mr. Stagg.

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I just find it unnecessary for him to do so on a day when he should be attending to Dáil business. Also many of us will not be able to follow the debate through the day due to work commitments but then again he's not addressing us all is he? He's only debating with a small few contributors... A weekend day would've been better.

Dáil business?
Surely you mean FF and FG pushing legislation which the majority of people do not want, with the GP puppets following along in an attempt to stay in power.

If you work 9 to 5, then you miss every dáil debate.
Why should this be any different to you?
TD's in the dáil do not address anyone on a daily basis. I don't know where you got the idea that they do from.

What we have here is a sitting TD willing to field the questions of several people of different political persuasions. That's democracy at its finest.
I don't agree with deputy Gogarty's political view, but he willing to answer my questions. I admire him for that.
Were he local, I'd give him my number 2 vote.

Thomas Bateman wrote: »

I for one would like to ask him why the greens are upholding the no good nicks in FF and keeping them in power. Are we allowed ask that, I wonder. :rolleyes:

I'd ask that, but I'm sure others are going to ask the same thing.
Do you have anything original to ask of him? I'd be quite willing to forward any original questions once they are not silly or repeated.

If anyone has a well thought out question and come back for Minister Gogarty, then feel free to PM me.
I'll review them all before 9am tomorrow morning, and then choose the ones I feel to be valid. I will then pose those questions to Minister Gogarty.

Please note that I have my own questons to ask of him, so I will have to limit others. I will choose one or two of the best regardless of political affiliation.

Democracy. It's not perfect, but it's the best system available.

DeVore

Scofflaw has agreed to not take any moderator actions on any of the debating threads or the threads here relating to the PG debate.

On unrelated threads he will still be acting as moderator. Its really a sign of how much we rely on the Pol Mods and how much work they do, that I feel uncomfortable being without even one of them, for just a day or two

DeV.

ps: I genuinely and honestly believe that Terry would actually march down to his clinic with a list of questions LOL. Plus, he's really big and could easily bash me.

Democracy in action. Terry and Scofflaw debating


May I be the first to say, good luck, I'm very proud of boards taking this enormous step, and happy Mr Gogarty has taken this challenge on. A lot more politicians would have hid from this.

And lastly, may I say, I would have loved to have put myself forward, but some of us have jobs :P (occassionaly:))

Look forward to the read when I get home.

Slydice

DeVore wrote: »

Scofflaw has agreed to not take any moderator actions on any of the debating threads or the threads here relating to the PG debate.

really?

Scofflaw wrote: »

TrollBGone.

moderately,
Scofflaw

gandalf

Even I wouldn't count taking out an obvious troll as action that is influencing the direction of the debate threads.

Scofflaw

gandalf wrote: »

Even I wouldn't count taking out an obvious troll as action that is influencing the direction of the debate threads.

Particularly not an obvious re-reg. I admit I had applied troll spray before I noted that I was in a Gogarty thread.

slightly embarrassed,
Scofflaw

Slydice

Scofflaw wrote: »

Particularly not an obvious re-reg. I admit I had applied troll spray before I noted that I was in a Gogarty thread.

slightly embarrassed,
Scofflaw

I'll let it slide . Though to be honest Scofflaw, I read this:

DeVore wrote: »

In that forum the following people will debate with him and conduit questions from the floor

and I expected that while the representatives may stray from that, I thought they'd conform to at least some of it.

So far, it looks like you only made 4 posts to post in place of PaulGogartyTD or to post as if you were in his place or you looked to be posting for PaulGogartyTD to give, as gandalf put it:

gandalf wrote: »

your slant as a Green Party supporter

I didn't see you debate with him or act as a conduit for any questions... or even ask a question.

Scofflaw

Slydice wrote: »

I'll let it slide . Though to be honest Scofflaw, I read this:

and I expected that while the representatives may stray from that, I thought they'd conform to at least some of it.

So far, it looks like you only made 4 posts to post in place of PaulGogartyTD or to post as if you were in his place or you looked to be posting for PaulGogartyTD to give, as gandalf put it:


I didn't see you debate with him or act as a conduit for any questions... or even ask a question.

To be honest, I never put my name in the hat for the debate - indeed, excused myself early on - since it would be very hard for me to ask what were primarily hostile questions in such a way that the questioner would necessarily have been happy with. So, although DeVore included me on the list, I didn't really feel like I had much contribution to make - on the other hand, since I was quite explicitly included as a Green party "supporter", I certainly didn't see any reason not to act as one.

Also, real life intruded in the form of a quite pressing legal issue, and as a result I hardly had any time during the day.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DeVore

I included Scofflaw because I wanted a sampling across the spectrum.

I am very happy with everyone's contributions and how they conducted themselves. I strong armed two people, JohnnySkeleton and Scofflaw and I thank them for their involvement.

DeV.

Scofflaw

DeVore wrote: »

I included Scofflaw because I wanted a sampling across the spectrum.

I am very happy with everyone's contributions and how they conducted themselves. I strong armed two people, JohnnySkeleton and Scofflaw and I thank them for their involvement.

DeV.

I have to say that I thought it went very well - I think both "sides" did credit to themselves.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DeVore

Yes, I think its gone as well possible in fact!! I'm sure not everyone is happy with the answers, but forming an "hivemind" of consensus was not my objective here. Running a debate which generated light rather than heat was. I think, as you say, that both sides have been a credit to themselves and I'm proud to have hosted it on Boards.

I hope this makes some of the cynics rethink their assertion that you cant have a mature debate online.

DeV.

gandalf

To be honest I wouldn't have an issue with Scofflaws inclusion at all. As DeVore said we couldn't have all the contributing persons against Paul Gogarty otherwise it would just end up as a lynching. The only reason I was able to be around for most of the day was because the temporary contract that I was hired under was terminated due to a "change in role" last Friday so I had time to kill so to speak.

The debate went as I expected with some clarifications but nothing ground-breaking or dramatic.

Slydice

DeVore wrote: »

I'm sure not everyone is happy with the answers

Well, I was worried about him skipping over my question and answering others around it even here on the public board when I asked it (and more) again.

Though, it was reassuring to see your write this on the wrapping up thread:

DeVore wrote: »

There are some outstanding questions which I will round up as Mr Gogarty has indicated he doesnt want to leave any unanswered

Thanks DeVore

Here are the questions (just a copy and paste of my second post) again to save you searching :

PaulGogartyTD wrote: »

What else can I do? You can't hug everyone, you can't persuade everyone.

Well, if you are looking for suggestions, how about answering these two posts:

Slydice wrote: »

Q1: What exactly would FF need to do for him to stop voting with them in the Dail?

Q2: What does he think would FF need to do for the GP to stop voting with them in the Dail?

Q3: How does he feel about having voted to shackle the Irish people with 100b legacy of debt? URL="http://twitter.com/brianmlucey/statuses/25977679606"]1[/URL URL="http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/09/30/banking-statement-by-minister-of-finance/#comment-78337"]2[/URL

and:

yoganmahew wrote: »

- Is it still Green Party policy that NAMA is the only show in town?
- That it will improve liquidity in the banks?
- That it will pursue borrowers (and their wives where assets have been transferred) to their fullest ability to pay?
- That assets will not be sold back at a discount to the current holders of the loans? (With the difference written off).
- That NAMA will make a profit for the taxpayer?

- How much general government debt is manageable?
- 80% of GDP? 100%? 120%?

- Is it Green Party policy that the National Pensions Reserve Fund should be used to buy further equity stakes in the banks?

- What should bear the brunt of the budget balancing?
- Increased taxation or decreased spending?

seeing as how you seem to know what is important to our economy from what you said here:

PaulGogartyTD wrote: »

we go to the markets in January

and here:

PaulGogartyTD wrote: »

with us seeking loans in January

Also, what's your best guess on what will happen in the coming (six) months for Ireland, the Irish banking system and how Ireland raises money in the bond market?