Dental Implant for €1200 !!!

Stu

I had the prep work done with a different dentist, i.e had one of my front teeth removed after a football accident where the tooth cracked in half but the break was above the gumline so the tooth didn't fall out but become loose.

I heard about the prices of this Northside dentist through my Dads mate and thought he was winding me up but i booked a consultation anyway. The place is nice enough and the dentist is a Polish Women who was very professional and explained every detail to me regarding, insertion of the implant, post OP pain and further visits after the initial implant healing period.

I went in a day later (last tuesday), had the implant done in 40 minutes, got a prescription for Pain Meds and Antibiotics from the Dentist and was told what to eat/Drink etc and how long the swelling and pain would last for. By yesterday, the swelling and pain was completely gone and i get the crown fitted in about 5 months time.

I paid €600 up front and will pay another €600 on the day i have the crown fitted. The cheapest price i found anywhere else was €2000 and that was up north. The prices at this particular dentist are 40% cheaper than anywhere else i could find in Ireland but the Dentisty was top notch and in these Recession times i'm sure a 40% saving on implants will appeal to everybody.

I am not a shill but the prices are too good not to pass this info on to people. Dentists have been ripping people off in Ireland for far too long, especially when it comes to Implants so if anybody wants the name of this Dentist, PM me and i'll pass them on to you.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

What kind of implant was used was it one of the big 5 systems? What kind of crown? what kind of abutment? Cheap implant systems such as some clones are very cheap, have poor manufacturing tollerances, have little literature backing them up and are incompatable with most available components. It too late now to ask but see the problems here. It like buying a 80 euro rolex, yeah it tells the time but its not a quality item. Also lets hope the implant is in the correct position, was a stent used from a waxup?

http://strongasanoxandnearlyassmart.blogspot.com/2009/01/dental-implants-in-hungary-not-good.html

And see how we can have a discussion without names........best of luck with it it will either be the bargain of the year or not. But defo find out what implant it is, they are not all the same, and when it comes to retreatment in some years time you will need to be able to get components.

BTW I know of an irish specialist dentist in dublin who will pace and restore a single implant for less that 2k.

Post a pic of the final result, it would be interesting to see.

Stu

The Reason the Implant was so cheap was because this Particular Dentist has branches in 3 different countries and have their own Lab where they make their own parts, therefore keeping the price down.

I did my research firstly by getting any info i could find online about this dentist in question and secondly, i contacted the Irish Dental Association to make sure she was registered. She told me she had been doing implants for 15 years and is a dentist for 21 years and i really can't fault anything about the procedure.

The implant i got is an "Alpha Bio" implant (10 year warranty) and all this information is freely available on their website which is very comprehensive and gave me the impression of a very professional service before i even booked an appointment. There are no hidden charges, i wasn't even charged for the consultation, just 2 flat fees of €600 euros. I'm back in 2 weeks to get the stitches out.

We need more fair priced, transparent dentists in this country. Irish Dentists heads are so far up their own arses regarding prices and hidden charges that this competition is badly needed.

Fitzgeme, i wouldn't go abroad for an Implant. I want to be able to contact my dentist at all times and be able to see her if necessary. Often times, implants done in foreign countries are done in 1 go, i.e, implant/abutment/crown on the same day and then you go home. This is absolutely crazy and bad practise in my opinion and significantly increases the chances of implant failure and extra trips abroad to try and rectify the problem. No thanks.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Those alpha bios are popular in poland and hungary. It seems a reasonable system although the connection is specific to that system. It will be difficult for anyone in ireland to get these parts as they are not sold here.

Post a pic in 5 months, the proof of the pudding.....

Big_G

We're delighted for you that you feel you got a good service for a good price. Could you please refrain from the type of language that you are using including 'heads up arses' etc. I have a feeling that there is a litte bit of trolling going on here and if there is one more post like the above I will close this thread and ban you Stu.

That is all.

Big_G

WRT alpha biotec I think it is an Israeli company recently bought by Nobel Biocare. One of their implants is the design template for the new Nobel Active AFAIK. Personally don't like the design, although I have no experience clinically with this system. It's a bone level implant without a correctly designed internal taper so expect to see bone loss crestally in about 3-4 months.

Stu

Big G, you are not an authority on Alpha Bio Implants to keep your opinions to yourself. I researched this particular implant and it appears to be a leading technology in the implant field so i was happy to have this particular implant fitted.

The company who owns the Dental Practise i used has 17 branches in Poland and more Branches in Spain so i felt that i wasn't taking a risk at the price of €1200. I can walk 20 minutes to the Dental practise if i ever need to see the Dentist who fitted the Implant.

A 10 year guarantee would imply that the Implant is of top quality. Many dentists only offer a 1 year guarantee on the implant failing and if it does fail after 1 year you have to stump up the price of an other Implant.

Big G, what reason would i have to be a troll. That comment is daft and you should know better being a MOD. All i am doing is pointing out the 40% cheaper prices of this Dentist because we are in a Recession and people should be made aware of these prices.

Regarding my comments RE: Irish Dentists. I was quoted an overall fee inc consultation of €3700 for an implant a few months back from a Dentist Located on South Circular road. He didn't even say it with a smile on his face, he was deadly serious :eek:.

An other Irish Dentist off Grafton Street quoted me a price of €2900 but said it may cost more if i needed a bone graft but couldn't give me an exact cost because it depended on how many consultations i had with him and the length of time it took to do a bone graft if i needed 1. :rolleyes:

Enough Said.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Jesus stu relax, (the head up the ass comment is out of order, but that seems you have a rather aggressive style)

If you needed a bone graft and didnt get it expect a compromised aesthetic on the final crown. The other dentist didn't say you needed one for the sake of it. If the new dentist didnt feel you needed one that great, but aesthetic standards differ between dentists.

If you are happy with cheap then thats great but don't expect it to be the best job in the world. Alpha bio is a fine company selling low cost implants manufactured and sold mostly to low cost economies (if they were brilliant then we would all use them wouldn't we seeing as they are so inexpensive), however the connection is not compatible with any of the big companies so expect problems getting parts in the future (when you need it replaced). Bone loss will depend on the placement, you can get it with any system if placed incorrectly or the bone is not properly grafted, bone level connections are fine so long as the connection is rigid.

My advice is not to hop on google now and try find things to support a decision that you already made, leave it there.I am sure it will be fine, post that pic in 5 months then you will put pay to the nay sayers....

BTW the number of branches a dentist has is irrelevant, it how they place the implant into your skull on the day, and how much care and attention then spend making the gums look good with temporaries and matching shade colour and texture...dont forget the bite either. I would doubt you will get a temporary at that price, it will be impression...crown fit.

Stu

Fitzgeme, would you not read my posts before commenting. The company who owns the dentist i got my implant done with have their own lab, producing their own parts. This is why they can keep costs down. I've already explained this in my first post. You are jumping the gun saying i might not be able to get parts when infact, i will never have a problem with an Alpha Bio Replacement Implant/Abutment/Crown over the course of the warranty and beyond.

As it happened i didn't need a bone graft and my teeth and gums are in excellent condition, i don't have any fillings, i look after my teeth, always have done. This is why i was able to have the Implant fitted the next day. The prep work had already been done with another dentist.

"Those alpha bios are popular in poland and hungary."

The dentist i went to is a Polish Owned Dentist and the information regarding the type of implants they use is freely available on their website.

Sorry if i come across a bit aggressive, its not intentional but i do have a problem with the prices most Irish Dentists charge for Cosmetic Work. in my Opinion, there is no Justification for charging €3000 or more for a 1 tooth Implant in 2010 in a country like Ireland.

I am very wary of much cheaper prices than the norm though and am meticulous when it comes to researching something as invasive as a Dental Implant which should last for life if fitted properly and looked after. As far as i'm concerned, i made the right decision after serious consideration and will post some pics when i have the crown fitted.

I felt that it was only right that i post my experience especially as you won't find prices anywhere close to what i paid for the implant and it will save some people a lot of money if they choose to have implants done with this dentist.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Sorry there stu but the abutment ( or the UCLA the lab use) and screw will not be made in the lab but by alpha bio, these are the parts along with screw drivers that you will have difficulty getting. As far as warranty goes, the implant will last longer than 10 years, its after that....

We know that alpha bio is being subsumed into Nobel Biocare so the product line will be phased out. Its happened a number of companies.

Needing a bone graft has nothing to do with you teeth and gum condition but the volume of bone and gum available. It possible to place an implant in very little bone but the results are often less than ideal. Here is a case of mine where the patient got two central implants and refused bone grafts, they integrated fine no problems but look off cause the bone was resorbed and the final teeth look too long. And it took a long time in provisionals to get it looking even that good... A denture has a pink bit that masks this effect.



It depends on the kind of result you want. Here is a case where we did bone graft and I would ask you which one it the implant? dont mide the fuz on my camera lens.



All these treatment take a lot of time. I could slap in an implant in any spot that will take it, let it heal, uncover, impression, lab, fit total chair time 90 minutes over 3 visits.
So 1200 euro minus 50% in costs = 600. Over 90 minutes = 400 euro an hour.

However the best practice is....wax up the final tooth, surgical stent, grafting and soft tissue if needed and implant placement in an ideal location for loading and aesthetics. Wait for healing, temporary tooth to shape the tissues for some months, tissue preserving impression, off to lab, custom abutment and crown. Fit crown with temp cement wait some time, final cement. Total chair time maybe 5 hours. over 9 visits. Its the time you pay for. Time = attention = details = results. Fast = cheap = compromise.
2500 euro - 50% costs = 1250euro, over 5 hours = 250 euro per hour

So who is the greedy dentist, the cheap one of the expensive one? BTW the dentist wont make that much because costs are more than that and tax is at 50% but it illustrates the point well. The cheap dentist is often the one making the all the money and providing only adequate treatment.

It depends on your expectations. So long a you dont think that all implants are the same?????

Stu

It depends on how you look at it Fitzgeme. Some people might think that €1200 is too cheap for an implant therefore it can't be of good quality. I personally think that as long as you are diligent in your research and you are happy that you are in good hands then thats all you can do.

The dentist told me i didn't need a bone graft and was ready to have the Implant. She took an xray of my teeth, gums and bone and showed me why i was ready to have the implant. She took an other xray after the implant was done and it looked fine and i was happy with how the procedure went.

All i need is a front tooth so i'm not anticipating any problems and as i said, if anybody wants the name of the dentist, PM me and i'll be happy to give your their website.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Lets wait to see the after pictures before we hand out the recommendations there stu, you have no idea of how good or bad the jobs is yet, only the price. I have a feeling you were ready for the implant because there was a free slot the next day Its a bit more complex than you first thought isn't it!

the bitter taste of low quality last long after the sweet taste of low price is gone.

Stu

Fitzgeme, your a Cynic and thats fair enough but the Alpha Implants have a 95% success rate which is in line with the overall trend for Implant Success.

The reason i had the implant done the following day was because i'd already had the prep work done and the healing process was complete from when i'd had the tooth removed. There is nothing sinister going on, i was ready to have the implant done, simple as.

I will post my pictures in 5 months time. All types of implants can fail for various reasons regardless of who the manufacturer is but i am very confident that i have made the right choice and am in good hands.

Big_G

Stu wrote: »

Big G, you are not an authority on Alpha Bio Implants to keep your opinions to yourself.

This from the person who was recently complaining about freedom of speech...

Stu wrote: »

Big G, what reason would i have to be a troll. That comment is daft and you should know better being a MOD. All i am doing is pointing out the 40% cheaper prices of this Dentist because we are in a Recession and people should be made aware of these prices.

As a mod, I do know better. I know your history here and I know that you don't have a particular fondness for Irish dentists and their pricing. I also know that you know that there are Irish dentists here posting and reading. It is not so much what you are saying but how you are saying it. You should know that your comments and style are inflammatory and I feel designed to rise certain people. Hence, troll...

Stu

It's a bone level implant without a correctly designed internal taper so expect to see bone loss crestally in about 3-4 months.

Big G, Scaremongering from a MOD who is not an authority on the particular type of Impant i got is bang out of order. You should know better but then i take everything you and Fitzgeme say with a pinch of salt anyway but nonetheless, you really should refrain from the above type of comments and Moderate the forum constructively in the future.

BryanL

i take everything you and Fitzgeme say with a pinch of salt anyway

So you disregard two professional opinions but put your faith in google, a cheap implant system at bone level and a polish dental franchise?

Good man


Fitzgeme, i'm guessing lateral? It looks too good,LOL

Stu

It was a brainless comment from Big G. I have a 10 year guarantee on an Implant with a 95% success rate. If a mod wants to discredit me for getting a particular type of implant then he probably has an ulterior motive for doing so.

I've given an honest opinion on the Dentist i went to and am happy with the procedure and have 3 more visits to the dentist before i will have everything complete. If the MODs want to be cynical then thats up to them but the dentist who did my implant has 15 years experience doing implants which is a hell of a lot more experience than most irish dentists many of whom charge nearly 3 times as much.

Irish Dentists are still charging Celtic Tiger Prices in the middle of a Recession. Thank god for some competition. It is badly needed in the Dental Industry in Ireland (down south) and long overdue in my opinion.

BryanL

Stu wrote: »

It was a brainless comment from Big G. I have a 10 year guarantee on an Implant with a 95% success rate. If a mod wants to discredit me for getting a particular type of implant then he probably has an ulterior motive for doing so.

If the MODs want to be cynical then thats up to them but the dentist who did my implant has 15 years experience doing implants which is a hell of a lot more experience than most irish dentists many of whom charge nearly 3 times as much.

QUOTE]

Big G's comment would be based on peer reviewed studies of implants placed at that level in the bone, so not quite brainless.

Your dentist might have had a good reason to place it at that level, but that doesn't detract from Big G's professional opinion.

Most dentists, I should say good dentists are cynical/sceptical of the claims made by various product manafacturers. You shouldn't take any offence at that, for a dentist it really is best practice.

Don't know why you think Irish dentists doing implants are not as experienced as your dentist?

The difficulty for a lot of people in any business post"Tiger" ( I never saw one!) is that most fixed overheads(property or practices) were acquired during the tiger years!

A few of the Dentists on here have already emigrated because of the costs of working In Ireland. But still come on here giving advice, opinions and getting involved in discussions because they enjoy dentistry.
Despite being accused of being robbing, thieving scum in most threads:D

I wonder is it like that on the estate agent, mortgage adviser, builder, carpentry or trades,etc. etc forums?:D

Stu

Bryan L, the comment that Big G made about my Implant and the problems i will face after a few months was bang out of order. I don't care what expertise he thinks he has, hes a mod and is supposed to be constructive with his criticism, not try to scaremonger.

I covered every base and discussed the type of implant i was getting in great detail with the Dentist the day before i got the implant. Infact i wrote down all the questions i had and brought them to the consultation with me and every question i asked was answered and explained to me in detail.

The MODS don't seem to like the fact that somebody else can do an implant for far cheaper than an Irish Dentist. Thats the impression i'm getting. Even though i've explained why i am getting as good treatment as i would with an irish dentist if not better, the MODS are trying to discredit with their "we know best" attitude.

Actaully Bryan L, if you want a plumber or Carpenter nowadays, you'll get them to do a job for a third of the price they were charging 3 years ago. Estate agents are in the same position, many are closing up shop but dentists are still living in a bubble in my opinion. They haven't brought their prices down to reflect whats happening with the economy and thats why we need outside competition to shake things up.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Ok chaps, let's leave it there and take it up in five months when stu post a close up in focus picture of the final crown with the lip up showing the gum.

Big_G

Stu wrote: »

It's a bone level implant without a correctly designed internal taper so expect to see bone loss crestally in about 3-4 months.

Big G, Scaremongering from a MOD who is not an authority on the particular type of Impant i got is bang out of order. You should know better but then i take everything you and Fitzgeme say with a pinch of salt anyway but nonetheless, you really should refrain from the above type of comments and Moderate the forum constructively in the future.

I won't tolerate you criticising my moderating style on thread, as a long time poster on boards, you should know that that is not tolerated in any forum on boards.

That is your last warning. Don't come on here shouting about how you are right and everybody else is wrong and calling comments brainless etc. Keep it civil or begone.

I think I know a little bit more about implants than you. Fitzgeme knows more than me. Just because you will may have bone loss after the first few months doesn't mean the implant will be a failure. It's just I think that there are better designed implants out there. It's more a criticism of your dentist than of you.

I do know that there are some nice things about the design, including its self tapping threads which is what Nobel Biocare (which is one of the big implant companies) liked about it. But thats more for the dentist than for you, it means that you can correct a poorly angled osteotomy by a few degrees when placing the implant.

My comment was designed to show you that you don't know what you don't know about implants. Infact, I am learning about implants on a year long course at the moment with a surgeon who places 800 implants a year. It is making me realise the things that I don't know. It could fill a book.

People in this forum are generally here to help. You accuse Fitzgeme of cynicism, but you yourself say that you take everything we say with a pinch of salt. Pot/kettle no?

Anyway no more criticism on thread of my moderation. If you have a problem pm me or one of the cat mods. Or take it to the help desk or dispute resolution.

If you persist, you will be banned. Last warning.

Stu

This is the problem Big G. It's OK for you to criticise the Type of Implant i've had done but apparently i can't criticise you for your negative comments about my implant. Double standards me thinks.

If you are easily riled then i'm afraid thats your problem but i'm entitled to give my opinion when you or anybody else tries to pick holes in my choice of implant and i'll always fight my corner if i feel i have to.

Anyway, I'm really not here to argue the toss with you guys but i feel strongly that Irish Dentists are overcharging people, not only for implants but for all dental work and if i find a considerably cheaper dentist who can carry out the same work at a fraction of the cost to the same or higher standard then i have to make it known to people who might be looking at the Dental Forum for prices on Implants.

Anyway, i'll leave it at that and resurrect the thread and put up some pictures after i've had the crown fitted.

ballsymchugh

should've been posted in bargain alerts in fairness. it's blatantly obvious the op won't have anything said against what he had done.

work

Stu.
I certainly agree with you dentistry can be expensive and you are right to ask questions. It is hard to understand why you seem to dislike irish dentists so much, they are just small business health providers employing many people and contributing way beyond anything fair to our economy (like all small private employers). Most (not all, like any job) of them really try and provide a good service for a good price. For a high quality implant placed correctly (surgically) and restored ideally (with a provisional crown and then the final restoration) the expense to the dentists involved should amount to at least €900 -€1200 and this is without there being any complexities. Every person’s anatomy is different (in shape and physiology) and needs to be cared for differently.
Stu, no matter how you cut it €1200 for an implant crown means you have an implant and crown of low quality. Cost is your most important issue, and on that you did really well.
It is very easy to blind a layperson with information (I apologise if this sound condescending it is certainly not meant to be). You quote a 95% success rate, but what is success? You mention a 10-year guarantee but what is guaranteed?
Stu generally a poor implant will work (in fact this is probably the biggest problem with them), that is it will stay in the bone for at least 10 years, but success is wildly different to this. Cheap dental clinics are here to stay (in Ireland and abroad) but do not fool yourself into thinking there is anything good about the treatment. Nobody can provide a quality restored implant for this price in Ireland and if they say it is top quality they are lying or ignorant.
All that being said Stu if you are happy and if you stay happy that is all that matters to you. Stu I would be delighted to get your feedback on my post but please use non-inflammatory language as I have refrained from it.
All the best

Stu

Hi Work.

If an Irish Dentist has to outlay €900 - €1200 for a dental Implant then how can they justify charging over €3000 for a 1 tooth Implant. Anybody with half a brain can see that Irish Dentists (south of the border) are ripping people off. A 66% markup. Lets try that (in this recession) with Tradesmen and Supermarket prices etc and see what happens.

The first question i asked at the consultation was. "How can you undercut Irish dentists by 40% or More". The Dentist who is doing my Implant have a Franchise in Ireland, Poland and Spain and have their own Lab, making their own Dental Parts so can keep their costs lower.

Some people don't want to believe that implants can be done cheaper but at the same standard as an Irish Dentist for a fraction of the price. Thats absolutely fine with me, i went into this with my eyes wide open. I researched everything in detail and having thought it through and having had a detailed consultation with the dentist, i knew i was in good hands and was getting a good quality Implant at a fair price.

We can argue all day long about how long the Implant will last, the validity of the Guarantee, yada, yada, yada but i had the Implant done by a dentist with 15 years experience doing Implants and it was done in 40 minutes with no pain and before and after xrays with indepth explanations about aftercare and subsequent visits.

Cynicism to a certain degree is fine, but people who completely dismiss dental work that is cheaper without taking everything i have said into consideration are narrowminded and far too rigid in their thinking.

Big_G

Stu wrote: »

This is the problem Big G. It's OK for you to criticise the Type of Implant i've had done but apparently i can't criticise you for your negative comments about my implant. Double standards me thinks.

That is correct, criticise the post and not the poster. Also, it is not so much what you say but how you say it. This has been stated before, not just by me but by others too.

Stu wrote: »

If you are easily riled then i'm afraid thats your problem but i'm entitled to give my opinion when you or anybody else tries to pick holes in my choice of implant and i'll always fight my corner if i feel i have to.

I'm not easily riled. Again, other posters have pointed out that your style is inflammatory. I think my response is appropriate. There is no need to fight anything, you can argue your points backed up with evidence. No need for aggressive/abusive/inflammatory language to try and emotively force your point across.

Stu wrote: »

, I'm really not here to argue the toss with you guys but i feel strongly that Irish Dentists are overcharging people, not only for implants but for all dental work and if i find a considerably cheaper dentist who can carry out the same work at a fraction of the cost to the same or higher standard then i have to make it known to people who might be looking at the Dental Forum for prices on Implants.

Really? Not here to argue? Funny that...

Stu wrote: »

, i'll leave it at that and resurrect the thread and put up some pictures after i've had the crown fitted.

We'll let you have the last word of course.

Big_G

Stu wrote: »

Hi Work.

If an Irish Dentist has to outlay €900 - €1200 for a dental Implant then how can they justify charging over €3000 for a 1 tooth Implant. Anybody with half a brain can see that Irish Dentists (south of the border) are ripping people off. A 66% markup. Lets try that (in this recession) with Tradesmen and Supermarket prices etc and see what happens.

There aren't very many charging that much for a single tooth implant. 2000- 2500 is more realistic at the moment in the Republic. So a 50% markup is what is there. This is a service also and not a product. So you are paying for the expertise of the operator. It costs a significant amount of hours and money to train to place implants. It's not just drilling a hole and bangin in a screw and flopping a crown on top. There has to be a return on that time and money investment for the dentist. That is where the fee comes in. I would submit that your dentist is possibly earning near the same fee as Irish dentists are. And I question 15 years of experience with implants, with that much experience, he/she should be charging a lot more as that would put them in line with the most experienced implant surgeons in Ireland. He/she may have meant 15 years of experience in dentistry, or restoring implants. With any job, more experience commands more money, no? I would also submit that comparing the fee structure with tradesmen is not realistic, for the above stated reasons of training, continuing education requirements etc. Plus the fact that we're dealing with the unpredictable human body.

Stu wrote: »

first question i asked at the consultation was. "How can you undercut Irish dentists by 40% or More". The Dentist who is doing my Implant have a Franchise in Ireland, Poland and Spain and have their own Lab, making their own Dental Parts so can keep their costs lower.

Just because your implant was cheaper does not mean that Irish dentists are ripping people off. You refuse to accept the other possibility which is that you may have gotten an inferior service. It seems to me that their explanation is cheap lab fee. Cheap lab fees are usually explained by lesser materials and processes and/or cheaper economies.

Stu wrote: »

people don't want to believe that implants can be done cheaper but at the same standard as an Irish Dentist for a fraction of the price. Thats absolutely fine with me, i went into this with my eyes wide open. I researched everything in detail and having thought it through and having had a detailed consultation with the dentist, i knew i was in good hands and was getting a good quality Implant at a fair price.

People who have more training, expertise and experience of implants than you do. But what do they know? We all have a vested interest to keep implant prices high so less people can afford them.

Stu wrote: »

Cynicism to a certain degree is fine, but people who completely dismiss dental work that is cheaper without taking everything i have said into consideration are narrowminded and far too rigid in their thinking.

We have taken what you have said into account. You have patently ignored what has been said to you, by people who know more about the business, science and art of dentistry than you. But you are right and everybody else is automatically wrong because you did some research on the internet before having a treatment done.

I think your implant will be adequate for you because your main driving factor is cost. I am due to get an implant soon and I can tell you, I will be paying a lot more than 1200 quid and I'm in the biz as they say, with access to a free lab (my dad) and expert implant surgeons.

fifofum

In fairness to the poster, he's tried his best doing all the research& asking his dentist all the pertinant questions. It can be exceptionally difficult with all the information on the internet, as some is marketed by the companies themselves, & you can get research papers to back up/contradict just about anything.
With the myriad of info all apparently backing up the posters' opinion,& a "bargain price" as further incentive, what else could/should he have done/asked prior to getting the implant?

ballsymchugh

stu, if you post in other forums about bargains, you will get the exact same kind of replies from people who know better. i'm sure you've done extensive research, but say you're looking to buy a tv, and you go to richersounds subforum. they know exactly what they're talking about and will tell you if the bargain you think you're getting is worth it. same with the guys in the digital terrestrial tv forum. they know the ins and outs of what will make a great tv, and it's rarely the cheapest.
all your getting here is honest replies, but you're not taking them too well, and everyone just gets riled.
by the way, how long after the implant placement was the 'after' radiograph taken? am wondering what the point was if it was just taken in the same day/week.

Big_G

fifofum wrote: »

In fairness to the poster, he's tried his best doing all the research& asking his dentist all the pertinant questions. It can be exceptionally difficult with all the information on the internet, as some is marketed by the companies themselves, & you can get research papers to back up/contradict just about anything.
With the myriad of info all apparently backing up the posters' opinion,& a "bargain price" as further incentive, what else could/should he have done/asked prior to getting the implant?

Agreed. However, if he had come on here and asked: implant €1200 - too good to be true?, he would have gotten a round of yesses. But he shouldn't either come on here and attack people for telling him other information that he missed in his research, or that nobody but a dentist would know.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Could I just comment that any implant with a moderatly rought TiO surface will get good success rates, and the success of the implant intergrating is almost certain for any implant. That not the difference between implant.

The availabilty of components when it inevetably come to retreatment is a factor ( all dental work will fail given enough time)

The quality of the crown and the design of the abutment are factors in how it will look, how long it will last.

The quality of the screws used.

The connection of the implant can cause later bone loss if its not stable or as Big_G points out if its bone level you can get extra bone loss. This is not failure, the implant will remain stable, however the gum might receed causing it to look bad, and trap plaque.

All these factors are in the dentist hands, and when you run to a low cost, you cut corners, get cheap abutments and crowns, use cheaper screws and take less care grafting and placing the implant.

Very rarely in this life do you get high quality and low price. When it come to medical implant in my body and the tooth on them I would spend the few extra quid and go get the best job possible.

The internet is not the place to research medical proceedures and implants, All you will get is positives. A balanced view can only come when you now the history of the technoligy and have experiance using various systems. However usually (not always) you can tell a good dental job cause it take lots of time, many visits and cost a bit more.

Stu

I had a PM from a women being quoted €6000 for 2 implants for her daughter. She didn't know where she was going to get the money from but then at those prices, the dentist is probably the best in his field, the implant must be the best that money can buy and should last for 200 years and her daughter will never have any problems down the line because she paid top dollar. :rolleyes:

Poor me, i'll be gummy in a few years with the shoddy dental treatment i'm getting. I really should have listened to the "experts" and found the most expensive Irish Dentist, i'm sure the MODS could have pointed me in the right direction on that score.

Big_G

Stu wrote: »

I had a PM from a women being quoted €6000 for 2 implants for her daughter. She didn't know where she was going to get the money from but then at those prices, the dentist is probably the best in his field, the implant must be the best that money can buy and should last for 200 years and her daughter will never have any problems down the line because she paid top dollar. :rolleyes:

Poor me, i'll be gummy in a few years with the shoddy dental treatment i'm getting. I really should have listened to the "experts" and found the most expensive Irish Dentist, i'm sure the MODS could have pointed me in the right direction on that score.

This is a really helpful comment. You can't win the debate with rational arguments so you resort to sarcasm. Well done.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Stu post the pic when the jobs done, do you agree to that? If its good I will say so, if your happy you say so and we will let the forum readers decide if the 1200 euro implant was a good decision. I will leave the last word to you and then I think this thread is done. As for the woman with the daughter needing implants, I would advise she either gets the best jobs possible or none at all. You will make the girl live with any mistakes of the rest or her life, this aint no ebay purchase its surgery and your face.

Stu

Will do fitzgeme

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Nearly time Stu.......let open this one up for that picture you promised us....up close in focus and with the lips retracted so we can see the gums.

Stu

Not quite Fitzgeme. I Still have another 6 or 7 weeks before i get the Implant but i contacted the dentist about 2 weeks ago and she told me to give it at least another 6 weeks but i really hate wearing a denture and was impatient to get the it over and done with but as promised, i will post the pic when i get the implant fitted.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Gee I am getting impatient too, I cant wait. 5 months on a single implant without graft is a long time to wait for healing.

Please up close, in focus and with the lips retracted so we can see the gums. Maybe a little post-it with boards.ie written on it in one of the shots.

work

Careful there now Fitz or you might wet yourself in anticipation

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Please up close, in focus and with the lips retracted so we can see the gums.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

bump its been 6 months now, in ungrafted bone, this should be complete (twice over at this stage) and resplendant for us all to see. Either that or its fallen out or the result is too shocking to post...which is it.

Proof of the pudding time, stu you posted on another forum yesterday.........so Please up close, in focus and with the lips retracted so we can see the gums

Stu

Fitzgeme, i've had the Implant done and its been a complete success, just got it done last friday, i find it a bit freaky that you've been monitoring my posts to see what other forums i've been posting on but i will post a pic over the next few days when i get the time. I do have a life you know ! but i will only post a pic on 1 condition, that you allow me to post the name of the dentist i had the implant with. I've sent you a PM so have a read through it and let me know if your ok with what i've sent you in the private PM

Big_G

I can tell you right now I won't agree with that stipulation. That amounts to a manipulation of the rules that are there for good reason.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Humm I dont know, the rules are there for a reason, anyone that is interested can PM you for the name, also a google search of "1200 euro implant in dublin" has the name of the clinic in the ad words.

So without naming the clinic or dentist post the pic you promised or dont, the ball is in your court. You were so eager to prove us all wrong I dont know why your not jumping at this oppertunity. Its too late to be changing the rules you had no problem with before (and after they were explained at length to you remember). This is your chance to promote this clinic in the best way possible with impartial pictures of results.

Stu wrote: »

Anyway, i'll leave it at that and resurrect the thread and put up some pictures after i've had the crown fitted.

Stu wrote: »

i will post the pic when i get the implant fitted.

Stu wrote: »

Will do fitzgeme

tbh

ok lads, I've been pm'd about this thread by big_g, and I've had a read through. I want to make some points that are critical of, and supportive of, both sides in this debate. Fitz and Big_g, normally I would talk to you both privately first, but I think it's important that we should be as transparent as possible.

I'm writing this post in an effort to point out to both sides where the other is coming from, and I feel I'm qualified to do that as both a regular user of dental services, and as someone who spent a fair while helping fitz to mod this forum, and I also am a cmod here so I can see deleted posts, reported posts etc so I know what the lads have to put up with.

First of all - I want to state at the outset that I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the two mods here have one interest that overrides all others - and that is that people who post here get the best advice possible to get the best treatment available to them. I've literally zero patience for any accusations that the lads are trying to dissuade people to go abroad or seek cheaper treatment because of some desire to line their own pockets - I've never seen them tout for business and in fact I've seen them both give extensive advice for free.

Secondly, I understand Joe Publics frustration with high dental prices, and I understand the attraction of a bargain, especially one of the magnitude we see when we're talking about a difference of thousands of euros. However, this is balanced against the fact that the only thing I really know about a given course of action is the price - I don't really know the work that's involved, and I certainly don't know what margin the dentist is making.

I understand the frustration that the dentists in the forum must feel when they see threads that go along the lines of "Don't get ripped off by Irish dentists - go to these guys instead, get the same work done for thousands less, and it's just as good" - when they are dealing with the fall out of some of these dentists months later.

It's very much human nature to say "look at me - I did a bit of research and I saved thousands". It's not human nature at all to come back and say "actually - I was wrong, the treatment didn't work and I had to spend more than i saved putting it right".
So - you don't see those posts on this forum, but the dentists do see them frequently in their practices.

Now, I can understand that the dentists may feel defensive when a post like the OP goes up, and I can understand them raising an eyebrow and saying "lets see how you go in six months" - this is both a natural defense of their reputation as professionals, and a product of their desire to make sure others (like me) don't see the OP and think it's a godsend.

However
I would just remind everyone that this forum is used by dentists and non-dentists alike, and to ask the dentists, and the mods, to remember that when the OP made the OP, he did it for the same basic reasons that the mods are modding the forum - to try and help people get good dental care (in this case, at an affordable price).

The line "Dentists have been ripping people off in Ireland for far too long" is totally unfair, inappropriate and irrelevant to the OP. If Stu has found a good deal, grand, but I don't like anyone putting the boot in.
Thinking of it rationally, stu, you were only ever going to piss off the dentists with a line like that. I'd hope you would apologize for that - up to you tho.

Fitz and Big_g - I know what you think the result of the procedure will be, and I know why you think that, but if you think about what you want to achieve (if it's a bad procedure, you want to OP to give it as much publicity as he did the price) - you're going about it the wrong way.
As I said, it's tough to admit you made the wrong call, and trying to force him to admit it (when he may have received excellent treatment, remember) will probably only make him ignore the post.

Please be open-minded to the fact that maybe this is a bargain, and if it is, it should be publicized in this forum. If the implant doesn't work, make it easy for Stu and other OP's to come back and say "yeah - my bad, it didn't work". You guys are dentists after all, people who feel they are being ripped off for dental work are more likely to believe Stu telling them the dangers than you guys (that doesn't mean they are right, but you can understand that I'm sure).

So - lets take a step back.

Stu, When you get a chance, and if it's ok with you, give us a look at the results. Lets forget about the battle lines that have been painted, and lets trust Stu to give an honest impression of how he thinks it went - good or bad - and lets trust Fitz and big_g to honestly appraise the work as best they can.
People reading the thread can then make up their own minds.

sorry for the long post!

Stu

Excellent Post TBH.

I have already said that i don't agree will some of the rules on this Forum, i.e - not being able to disclose the name of a Dental practise on the forum, especially when you've had good treatment at an affordable price.

I can understand the MODs censoring posts where people are complaining about a Dentist and putting the Dentists name on the forum, thats fair enough but positive feedback should be welcomed and not censored.

In the Broadband forum you can slag off or praise any of the Broadband providers for poor/good service without being censored but there are different rules on the forum, why?

As i said, i will post a pic if i am allowed to name the Dentist otherwise theres not a hope of me posting a pic. Lets call it "compromising" with each other.

tbh

Sorry dude - you can't name the practice. I understand your motives for wanting to, but trust me when I tell you that it's so much of a legal nightmare naming practices that to break the rule actually jeopardises the future of the forum.

I also have gotten great treatment for a practice that I've given details about in PM, but literally 99.9% of recs come from spammers. We've tried minimum post counts etc, but it always ends up the same way. I should point out that 100% of the dental spam is from non-Irish practices.

flahavaj

Why are you putting conditions on it now Stu? You were quite hapy to agree to post the pic months ago! Bad form tbh. As has been said, a google search or a PM easily reveals who it was anyway, the cat is already out of the bag......

tbh

Ok lads, he can post if he wants, but doesn't have to. Choice is his, let's leave it there.

Stu

If i went onto the Broadband forum and said "UPCs 20 meg broadband is excellent, fast speeds, very happy with it", there would be no censoring. Why is it any different on the Dental Forum? I fail to see where there might be a legal nightmare when giving positive feedback. It makes no sense to me and leads me to believe that there is an ulterior motive for the excessive censoring on this forum and i have my own theory as why the Mods block positive feedback.

If the mods are going to censor posts on this forum then it should apply to any forum that discusses the merits or drawbacks of a particular service otherwise the rules are objectionable.

tbh

Stu wrote: »

I fail to see where there might be a legal nightmare when giving positive feedback. It makes no sense to me and leads me to believe that there is an ulterior motive for the excessive censoring on this forum and i have my own theory as why the Mods block positive feedback.
.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not Stu, I've told you that that's the way it is. You can either trust me or not - it's clear that you don't and that's fine. Fitz, suggest we lock the thread now, it's clear stu doesn't wantto post a pic so I don't see what purpose keeping the thread open will serve.