Beef Finishers

newholland

What would be the best approach for buying cattle in the mart and finishing them for the factory. Specifically how what would the suggestions be on the following

Breed
Gender
Age at Purchase
Rations during time on farm
How long to keep them for

How much gross profit could you expect on this type of venture. Have all sheds and land in place.

blue5000

Not being smart but just go into any mart and watch what goodman agents are buying. He is rarely wrong......:cool:

reilig

newholland wrote: »

What would be the best approach for buying cattle in the mart and finishing them for the factory. Specifically how what would the suggestions be on the following

Breed
Gender
Age at Purchase
Rations during time on farm
How long to keep them for

How much gross profit could you expect on this type of venture. Have all sheds and land in place.

I'll let other people advise you on breeds, gender and age, but I'll tell you that its a game in which margins are very tight and its easier to lose money at it than make profit. Personally i wouldn't dream of doing it at the moment - cattle prices are pretty high, Grain prices look like they will be a record high over this winter and beef prices in the factory are currently nothing to write home about and will they go up??? If you have your own supply of grain for fattening, then go for it. But if you haven't, I'd think long and hard.

pakalasa

An experienced cattle dealer told me once that winter finishing is a sure way to go bust!

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

An experienced cattle dealer told me once that winter finishing is a sure way to go bust!

I agree. Its fine for the likes of Goodman (as Blue pointed out above), but he doesn't have to rely on another factory to pay him for his beef.

vanderbadger

sold 2 to 2 1/2 year old cattle there 6 or 7 weeks back, they were all 650 + kg, they werent finished but were good cattle, they made in or about 400 with weight, slightly less in some cases, now they were my own cattle born and reared on the farm so they hadnt cost me to buy in but I have fed them for 2 winters and and they got a good bit of meal all this summer and would have gotten meal over the previous winters as well although not a huge amount...sold a few weanlings there the other week , in one case a 400kg weanling made 800 euro, not far of what the 2 year old made..so IM saying to myself what is the point of keeping on those cattle and feeding them..the only advantage for me is that i work and a few cattle can be easy enough to manage compared to cows and calves but going forward once i get the calving a bit more compact and get an ok bunch of cows together then i will be selling them all on as weanlings..the lads that buy these expensive weanlings that arent for export..i dont know how they make a living..

Shauny2010

[QUOTE=in one case a 400kg weanling made 800 euro, not far of what the 2 year old made..so IM saying to myself what is the point of keeping on those cattle and feeding them...[/QUOTE]

I agree, the only thing I notice is that your still not making a pile of money from weanlings either.
The cost of the cow, her replacement, the ones that are not in calf, the small heifer calves!! etc etc
I`d like to find some alternative.......................................:)

reilig

Shauny2010 wrote: »

I agree, the only thing I notice is that your still not making a pile of money from weanlings either.
The cost of the cow, her replacement, the ones that are not in calf, the small heifer calves!! etc etc
I`d like to find some alternative.......................................:)

If you don't make money from weinlings this year then its time to give up, sell your cattle and draw your single payment by just stocking to the minimum rate.

This year has seen the best prices for weinliings that I have ever seen in 10 years of selling weinlings. Heavier weinlings are going ok - anything over 400kg is making at least the Eur 2 per kg.
However, the farmer with lighter spring born weinlings between 200kg and 350kg is getting up to Eur 2.50 per kg.

Lads, we've complained for long enough about prices of weinlings. It really can't get too much better than this and long may it last. Fair play to the exporters who have developed a whole new market for our weinlings - it will take time for them to put a squeeze on the factories but hopefully we will see price rises with them in time.

poor farmer

you should consider buying a fishing rod

newholland

I understand the tight margins etc I am only looking for advice on the questions that I asked. Next week I will have all the cattle sold and need to buy replacements. I have a few hundred bales of silage enought space to hold 60+ cattle in comfortable conditions so what else can i do?

another thing to bare in mind is if I sell the bales and keep not cattle this could have siginifican sfp implications going forward

blue5000

Hi newholland,

Sorry I thought you were larry on here lookin for new ideas. What sort of cattle did you have last yr, and how did they do?

Good quality cattle are scarce enough in the marts as far as I can see local to me. At long last there is a price gap opening up between plain fresian types and better quality continentals, but numbers are down, which should in theory lift the price of beef. I reckon it is a good time to buy cattle now, as to what breed/weight/sex/age its entirely up to you.

Ok yr and a half cattle seem to be better value than younger cattle, should be less hassle health wise as well.

Shauny2010

reilig wrote: »

If you don't make money from weinlings this year then its time to give up, sell your cattle and draw your single payment by just stocking to the minimum rate.

I haven't sold anything yet but you need to be getting 500+ per head before your in profit at this game.I've seen weanling heifers making a lot less than 500.

I just think even with these prices the margins are too small, Ill not be giving up my day job (Its needed to subsidise the farm!!:))

reilig

Shauny2010 wrote: »

I haven't sold anything yet but you need to be getting 500+ per head before your in profit at this game.I've seen weanling heifers making a lot less than 500.

I think that figure is very dependent on a lot of factors including when the weinling was born and how much meal you feed.
From what I have seen of marts in the last few weeks, if you are getting less than €500 for a continental heifer then you're not creeping her or she was born in very late spring and therefore can't have cost you too much money. But I suppose in saying that, if you were breeding something non continental like Angus etc, then you may struggle to get to €500.

In loughrea last friday night, 50% of the animals were Limousin or LMX, 20% were BB. About 20% were chaorlais and the last 10% were a mix of everything else. The mart has a special arrangement wth dealers/exporters where they put their cattle into specific pens in the unused part of the mart as they come out of the sales ring. Practically every animal that was red, white, blue or yellow (LM, LMX, CH, BBx and CHX) went into these pens. There appeared to be a lot of farmers there prepared to buy for to fill sheds for the winter, but the majority of cattle went into these pens - and certainly, any animal with any bit of quality went into these pens. Farmers were not able to buy because we have never had prices as good. A lot of people were complaining, but all sellers were happy. Again, I stress, If you are not making a profit from weinlings this year, you are doing something seriously wrong and you need to consider an alternative enterprise or just draw your single payment by keeping a minimal amount of animals.

The only problem is that most profit made this year is going to have to go to clear loans and overdraughts that were built up over the last 10 years of bad prices. And with the nature of cattle prices and issues that can affect cattle prices, is it likely that prices will be as good next year too???

Tipp Man

Finished cattle need to be making 1500 at the factory for everybody along the line to have a decent living and a decent return on capital.

As it is it takes a good bullock to make 1100 or more. Until the price of cattle @ factories increases by about 20% then there will be nothing in it for anyone

Beef farming as a full time enterprise is finished in this country anyway, once the SFP goes in a couple of years then the margins are just too tight and without a job/second income it is nearly impossible to live from them.

I reckon by 2020 nearly all beef in this country will be produced by part time farmers

reilig

Tipp Man wrote: »

Finished cattle need to be making 1500 at the factory for everybody along the line to have a decent living and a decent return on capital.

As it is it takes a good bullock to make 1100 or more. Until the price of cattle @ factories increases by about 20% then there will be nothing in it for anyone

Beef farming as a full time enterprise is finished in this country anyway, once the SFP goes in a couple of years then the margins are just too tight and without a job/second income it is nearly impossible to live from them.

I reckon by 2020 nearly all beef in this country will be produced by part time farmers

I think that the removal of the SFP will have a bigger impact on meat factories than it will have on beef farmers. Farmers won't continue to keep cattle at a loss (as they are doing now and living off the SFP). With no SFP, we will see a lot of farmers stop keeping cattle and going for something that pays, perhaps it will be forestry or bio fuel (who knows). Or nothing if there is no maoney to be made from any type of farming. The one thing that we do know is that farmers won't sell their beef at a loss if there is no SFP. If the meat factories can't get beef, then they will have to increase their prices. The ideal thing would be to have our live exports to continue to flourish to keep beef for factories scarce and force them out of the articifial priceing system that they currently operate. Remember, margins may be tight, but its the factories that are making them tight by paying way below the market value for beef.

My Mystic Meg prediction for 2020 is that there will be far less part-time farmers in the country as most of them currently only survive on the SFP rather than any profit that they are making. I predict that it will take a beef farm of 400 acres to yield the equivalent of the average industrial wage in 2020. No part-time farmer will be able to compete with these big farms.



I'm off out now to meet my bank manager about a loan to buy 300 acres of land and when I return I will give my notice in this job

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

.

My Mystic Meg prediction for 2020 is that there will be far less part-time farmers in the country as most of them currently only survive on the SFP rather than any profit that they are making. I predict that it will take a beef farm of 400 acres to yield the equivalent of the average industrial wage in 2020. No part-time farmer will be able to compete with these big farms.



I'm off out now to meet my bank manager about a loan to buy 300 acres of land and when I return I will give my notice in this job

Agree with most of what you say especially about the factories but not sure about above. I think there will be just as many part timers by 2020, or maybe even more, certainly in beef. Part time farmers won't have to compete with 400 acres beef farmers as there will be very very very few beef farms of that size in the country. Certainly in Munster farms of that size will be ploughed or milked.

I have no problem at all with part timers, I just think its a real shame that our beef industry is reduced to this, and that you couldn't survive on a beef farm without another income

P.S. is it the 313 acres in Meath that your after, nice bit of land it looks. a 4 million loan should do it:D

reilig

Tipp Man wrote: »

Agree with most of what you say especially about the factories but not sure about above. I think there will be just as many part timers by 2020, or maybe even more, certainly in beef. Part time farmers won't have to compete with 400 acres beef farmers as there will be very very very few beef farms of that size in the country. Certainly in Munster farms of that size will be ploughed or milked.

I have no problem at all with part timers, I just think its a real shame that our beef industry is reduced to this, and that you couldn't survive on a beef farm without another income

P.S. is it the 313 acres in Meath that your after, nice bit of land it looks. a 4 million loan should do it:D

That's the land I'm after allright

If there is no SFP, I can't see part-time farmers operating at a loss. I know that a lot of farms are currently operating at a loss on paper, but take away the SFP and you might need two off farm incomes in order to keep a farm going at the current level. Farmers will have to choose to only farm in a way that makes profit or not farm at all. Economies of scale will kick in and only the bigger farms will be able to make money. I'm not saying that there will be no part-time farmers, I'm saying there will be much less.

pakalasa

Are prices that good for weanlings at the moment?
Going by the Farmers journal price watch, they are back up to 2008 level, but no higher.

As for the future of Beef here, the world population is growing and meat, at the end of the day, is a luxury food. If our production costs are always that bit lower than mainland europe, then we should have some bit of a future, albeit part-time.

Dozer1

Agree with reilig, prices are good at the moment but any profit is gone on paying off for the last few years losses. Farm scale and fragmentation is a huge issue for the small scale producer or part time farmers. When your farm isn't in one block it increases cost such as transport extra housing and handling facilities. If some work could be done around this I believe cost savings could be made and maybe us part timers will survive.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Are prices that good for weanlings at the moment?
Going by the Farmers journal price watch, they are back up to 2008 level, but no higher.

As for the future of Beef here, the world population is growing and meat, at the end of the day, is a luxury food. If our production costs are always that bit lower than mainland europe, then we should have some bit of a future, albeit part-time.

The price watch isn't telling the whole truth - or maybe that's the wrong way to say it, but the price watch isn't giving the whole picture. Prices for heavy weinlings aren't the best that they have ever been, but they aren't too bad. But I have never seen prices so good for lighter weinlings. In years gone by, a 200kg, 5 month old chaorlais or limousin bull weinling struggled to make €400. That's €2 per kg. Today, unless your bull calf is all skin and bone, he'll make €2.50 per kg. Unlike other years, cattle under 300 kg are being bought by exporters - a lot going to the North and to the UK.

sprouty

Anybody consider contract rearing dairy heifers instead of sucklers??

No capital outlay,no mart,no factory,no getting out of bed at 3am on a Feb nite to pull a calf(after being attacked by the cow!!) etc etc
Still farm your own land & use existing facilities.

Not sure of SFP implicatios but the cattle would be in your herd no so should be OK.

With the fragmentation on farms & the desire of dairy farmers to have nothing on the milking platform except milking cows this is an area of growth.

In parts of New zealand up to 80% of heifers are contract reared......just a thought.
I'm going to look more closely at it next year-looks more suitable for al lot of us part timers?

ellewood

yea i think contract reariing hfrs would be a great idea has anyone done it or has anyone any idea of how it would work

snowman707

I was at central auctions nenagh last week and good value to be had in the bullock ring, particularly for the first 20 pens or so, sale livened up a bit as the day went, admittedly most stock were off fr cows

ie lovely black hereford 400kgs. selling for €600 to €620 ( would easily grade R)

with the prices the factories pay in this country, attempting to buy "fancy" stock against the shippers is financial suicide