TDs' €2.3m in summer expenses

Lenny Lovett

According to today's Independent, we paid our hard working TDs €2.3million in expenses while they were on their holidays. I'm glad we look after them so well considering what a fantastic job they all do for us.

They are 'living in a parallel universe' and lack 'moral authority', says leading economist
THE nation's TDs received over €2.3m in expenses payments between June and September, despite the Dail's 12-week break, the Sunday Independent can reveal.
Figures published by the Houses of the Oireachtas showed that between the beginning of June and the end of September, members claimed €2,303,138, in total, between them -- even though the Dail rose on July 8 and only returned on September 29. The figures also showed that despite there being no committee hearings in August, as well as no Dail sittings, the 163 members of the lower house claimed €575,000 in expenses during the month.
The amount paid to members was heavily criticised yesterday. "They are living in a parallel universe and such revelations erode their moral authority," leading economist Jim Power said.

It's outrageous really. It adds up to an average of €13,000 each. About €3,000 per month ON EXPENSES!!! When they weren't even working????? WTF is that all about?

Overall, the top claimant was Fine Gael Cork South West TD PJ Sheehan, who received €21,180. Mr Sheehan recently resigned as his party's deputy spokesman on agriculture, after the Sunday Independent revealed that he was involved in a drunken incident with a female garda who claimed he threatened her.
"I have no comment other than to say I am the furthest TD from the Dail and the closest to the White House. You would want to cop on. . ."

I think Mr Sheehan needs to cop on... Actually, No. WE need to cop on and boot the whole damn lot of them out and fast!

round tower huntsman

im no longer surprised or shocked at revelations about the trough our td's and top civil servants have their snouts stuck into.

Laminations

All the party leaders need to be brought to account on this, how is it justified?

At the same time:

'Cut TDs pay be almost 20%'
'Vouched expenses only'
'Cut numbers of TDs in Dail'

Why is it SF who are making these promises? The party I love to hate and can never see myself voting for are the only ones talking about serious political reform. The rest don't seem to be clues into the reality of this crisis or the palpability of public anger

flutered

Laminations wrote: »

All the party leaders need to be brought to account on this, how is it justified?

At the same time:

'Cut TDs pay be almost 20%'
'Vouched expenses only'
'Cut numbers of TDs in Dail'

Why is it SF who are making these promises? The party I love to hate and can never see myself voting for are the only ones talking about serious political reform. The rest don't seem to be clues into the reality of this crisis or the palpability of public anger

the others have their snouts in the trough

kippy

Is anyone surprised really?
We let this ****e go on and have done for years.
Next time some count comes to the door looking for your vote tell them what you want to see changed. Enough people asking politicians for change, effects change. Email/write to you local representatives outlining your dismay and lack of a vote next time out. Be an actual keyboard warrior.
Posting on here sadly changes absolutely nothing.

FG released a bit of a spiel on a few changes they would implement in government, they didnt go far enough.

caseyann

Why are people still allowing this to happen,i mean what is it going to take for people to say no, they dont own the country or the money.
Demand payment reductions on the Ministers :mad:
They are meant to work for the people.

We face this also with IMF.Thank the gods i am going next week
http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/imf-taking-control-would-cause-untold-social-harm-warns-economist-477127.html

But for my family and friends i am worried for the countries future under these criminals.

galwayrush

There's 2.3million that could be diverted to a C.F. treatment centre straight away,:rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy

They are only on hoidays from the Dail, they are not necessarily 'on holidays' per se. But hey dont let facts get in the way of a rant and btw i do think the whole expenses regime is a disgrace and needs radical reform

Liam Byrne

While it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that they were milking us dry, I'm going to be consistent and ask whether anyone has seen similar reported in a reputable paper ?

Overheal

Liam Byrne wrote: »

While it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that they were milking us dry, I'm going to be consistent and ask whether anyone has seen similar reported in a reputable paper ?

Google Senator Expenses.

Even from a US IP it's all over the googleweb

Lenny Lovett

Liam Byrne wrote: »

While it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that they were milking us dry, I'm going to be consistent and ask whether anyone has seen similar reported in a reputable paper ?

Well, I haven't heard any Politicians claiming the report was wrong and there was a few of them on Marian Finucane's Show today. They swiftly brushed over it

thebman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

They are only on hoidays from the Dail, they are not necessarily 'on holidays' per se. But hey dont let facts get in the way of a rant and btw i do think the whole expenses regime is a disgrace and needs radical reform

Yes but we need a complete breakdown of what these expenses were when the cost is so high and the dail is not sitting.

Its just ridiculous to expect people to pay blindly for whatever they feel like which seems to be the current situation.

Seth Brundle

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

They are only on hoidays from the Dail, they are not necessarily 'on holidays' per se. But hey dont let facts get in the way of a rant and btw i do think the whole expenses regime is a disgrace and needs radical reform

What work were they, our national legislators, doing then?
What legislation were they all working on during their summer holidays?

thebman wrote: »

Its just ridiculous to expect people to pay blindly for whatever they feel like which seems to be the current situation.

They can claim mileage etc on a fixed monthly figure IIRC and no need to provide details (sure doesn't Bertie claim it despite being driven everywhere in his state funded garda car).
The reality is that our politicians are allowed submit expenses that were it a private comany, they would find themselves in serious difficulty were revenue to find out.

Fo Real

I was raging when I read this in the Sindo. The abusive drunk, PJ Sheehan, sitting proudly at the top of the expenses list. And then he had the audacity to tell a journalist, who called him up on it, "to cop on". He should have been expelled from Fine Gael after the incident with the female Garda imo. Any party that harbours these kind of drunken buffoons will certainly not be getting my vote.

Unsurprisingly, King of the Gombeens - Mr. Jackie Healy Rae - comes in at second place. Another uneducated heavy drinker. It should be compulsory for all TDs to have a university degree to ensure they have a reasonable level of education and can conduct interviews with the media (beyond brash insults like "cop yourself on").

We're being taken on a ride. These guys can't believe their luck. Transport, hotel rooms and drinks to the tune of €20,000+ all paid for courtesy of the sucker taxpayer. Do we have anybody from Sheehan's Cork South West constituency or Healy Rae's Kerry South one on this forum? Care to explain how these gombeens are repeatedly elected?

dashboard_hula

I remember the BBC providing excel files of MP expenses during the height of the scandal in the UK - I presume they requested it under the FOI Act and that something similar could be done here?

Perhaps I'm not reading enough Irish based news, but doesn't revelations of exorbitant handling of TD/Senator claims tend a bring a reaction of:

"Those skiving feckers! Something should be done!"
.
.
.
.
*tumbleweed*

Until the next round of revelations.

Why is this? I'm not trying to pawn off the responsibility to someone else to handle, if it's a cultural failure then I'll hold my hand up and say I was too busy chewing my nails about the size of my tax levy to pay much attention but I think it's an interesting question.

Also I'm knackered and mightn't be making much sense.

kippy

dashboard_hula wrote: »

I remember the BBC providing excel files of MP expenses during the height of the scandal in the UK - I presume they requested it under the FOI Act and that something similar could be done here?

Perhaps I'm not reading enough Irish based news, but doesn't revelations of exorbitant handling of TD/Senator claims tend a bring a reaction of:

"Those skiving feckers! Something should be done!"
.
.
.
.
*tumbleweed*

Until the next round of revelations.

Why is this? I'm not trying to pawn off the responsibility to someone else to handle, if it's a cultural failure then I'll hold my hand up and say I was too busy chewing my nails about the size of my tax levy to pay much attention but I think it's an interesting question.

Also I'm knackered and mightn't be making much sense.

Read post 5 again.
Standard fare.

dashboard_hula

kippy wrote: »

Read post 5 again.
Standard fare.

I know what can be done, and your suggestions are grand - that's the minimum of what I'd expect people to do - but in fairness at the next GE, I would imagine that a canned response to the question of TD expenses would be one of the first things to be devised.

My question was a) whether the FOI Act applies in Ireland in this case, although I could probably find that out myself, and I will and b) why low level rabblerabble seems to be the public response to these reports. Or perhaps to flesh out my point, despite the public outrage that I've seen on talk radio and newspapers (and I had to go looking for it), why is the govt ignoring it..and more to the point, allowed to?

kippy

dashboard_hula wrote: »

I know what can be done, and your suggestions are grand - that's the minimum of what I'd expect people to do - but in fairness at the next GE, I would imagine that a canned response to the question of TD expenses would be one of the first things to be devised.

My question was a) whether the FOI Act applies in Ireland in this case, although I could probably find that out myself, and I will and b) why low level rabblerabble seems to be the public response to these reports. Or perhaps to flesh out my point, despite the public outrage that I've seen on talk radio and newspapers (and I had to go looking for it), why is the govt ignoring it..and more to the point, allowed to?

Sorry,
These expenses and what they are for are available under FoI, thats how the papers got them.
What you have seen isnt actually public outrage.
Politicians only respond to the chance of them losing their seats. If enough people from their own areas contact them outlining what they want to see changed, change will happen.

Nijmegen

The issue with FOI and expenses is that there are no receipts for TD's expenses.

They introduced a "reformed" system in the recent past, whereby you got more money for expenses if you provide receipts. Most TD's opted to go for the lower amount, but claimed without receipts.

They did release bits and pieces of the information, but you can't break it down to taxi receipts and hotel bills for the most part.

http://thestory.ie/2010/06/02/td-expenses-2005-to-2008/

Back in 2008 the herald did the sums and figured that for each day the Dail sits, we get hit for €95,000 in expenses.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/836495000-a-day-in-td-expenses-for-each-dail-sitting-1583089.html

Frankly, all TD's should have to submit vouched expenses, and perks like the travel allowance should be cut down to size. It's illegal for me to give myself or my workers a tax free allowance for travel to and from work in general. Accepting that most TD's live further from their 'place of work' than the rest of us, they ought to be given something, but not this gravy.

As for expenses during the summer, TD's do have a function year round as constituency workers and so forth... But €2.3m is a joke, a sick joke.

Another interesting one about expenses: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0602/1224271677114.html

Trevor Sargent claimed almost €150 a day in travel and accomodation expenses. He's a Dublin TD. What f'ing planet are these lads on?

caseyann

dashboard_hula wrote: »

I remember the BBC providing excel files of MP expenses during the height of the scandal in the UK - I presume they requested it under the FOI Act and that something similar could be done here?

Perhaps I'm not reading enough Irish based news, but doesn't revelations of exorbitant handling of TD/Senator claims tend a bring a reaction of:

"Those skiving feckers! Something should be done!"
.
.
.
.
*tumbleweed*

Until the next round of revelations.

Why is this? I'm not trying to pawn off the responsibility to someone else to handle, if it's a cultural failure then I'll hold my hand up and say I was too busy chewing my nails about the size of my tax levy to pay much attention but I think it's an interesting question.

Also I'm knackered and mightn't be making much sense.

That is the problem ly down and take it,public are cowards no meaningful sizable amount and all people worry about is whether they get paid.Because the government made it so they wouldnt want to leave work and strike a whole country together.
James connolly:“If you strike at, imprison, or kill us, out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you, and perhaps, raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”

here.from.day.1

What kind of €3k per month expenses are these people claiming?? Is it all travel?

Seth Brundle

mileage, telephone, whatever they can think of!

caseyann

kbannon wrote: »

mileage, telephone, whatever they can think of!

Toilet flushing of all their Crap and rubbish discarding and recycling so they can use it again and again

Wicklowrider

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Well, I haven't heard any Politicians claiming the report was wrong and there was a few of them on Marian Finucane's Show today. They swiftly brushed over it

While I appreciate and agree with your point Marian Finucane ( or any other RTE main player) has some neck to highlighting waste of public monies.

Fo Real

Wicklowrider wrote: »

While I appreciate and agree with your point Marian Finucane ( or any other RTE main player) has some neck to highlighting waste of public monies.

Agreed. RTE/TDs expenses - It's all public money at the end of the day.

Amhran Nua

dashboard_hula wrote: »

"Those skiving feckers! Something should be done!"
.
.
.
.
*tumbleweed*

Until the next round of revelations.

Why is this?

Well what can be done? Protest in the streets? That would mean standing shoulder to shoulder with the SWP, Sinn Féin and their buddies. Write letters, email, etc? Useless without a concerted effort behind it, its just random background noise to these TDs, filed under "the usual suspects". Their job as they see it is to listen to large families and do small favours for them, fill in the potholes and fix the fences. As long as they keep doing that they'll still keep getting the votes, even to the extent of being convicted of actual crimes. Set up a new political party? Well clearly either you want to be one of the hated politicians eager to stick your nose in the trough, or you haven't filled in enough potholes to be worth listening to, johnny-come-lately.

The mechanisms to provide accountability and focus the minds of TDs on the national level issues simply do not exist within the Irish political system. Transparency might be there to an extent, otherwise we'd never hear about this stuff, but accountability, no. Until this addressed by a systemic readjustment on a basic level, starting with the constitution, we'll still keep muddling through leaking disgrace from every joint, a shadow of the nation we could be.

deandean

I would advocate handing out swords to a lot of them, onto which they might fall.

stanislaw

it is disgraceful the spending thats going on.
But why are our politicians even paid expences in the first place.
should they not be treated like all self employed people, make their payments and claim it back through their taxes.
surely the cost of secretaries, advisers, premises, and consultants (and beauty therapists) are all employed by the politicians are all just the cost of being a politician and like all businesses you employ what you can afford. instead they are given free reign and allowed spend up to a very large set amount. ??????

thebman

Its a classic idea of those who make the rules are least likely to obey the rules.

When newspapers report on things like this, they simply put up the price of freedom of information requests on it to try to stop the people finding out rather than try to behave better.

I'd ask what planet are they living on but the real question is what planet are we living on that we let them away with this nonsenses?

What other country lets their politicians submit such high unvouched expenses?

They clearly need to be brought back to earth.

Coillte_Bhoy

kbannon wrote: »

What work were they, our national legislators, doing then?
What legislation were they all working on during their summer holidays?

Oh forget it:rolleyes:

Callan57

Laminations wrote: »

All the party leaders need to be brought to account on this, how is it justified?

At the same time:

'Cut TDs pay be almost 20%'
'Vouched expenses only'
'Cut numbers of TDs in Dail'

Why is it SF who are making these promises? The party I love to hate and can never see myself voting for are the only ones talking about serious political reform. The rest don't seem to be clues into the reality of this crisis or the palpability of public anger

Probably because they are unlikely to be in a position to implement them .... look North - when SF get at the tough the high moral ground doesn't be long shifting.

caseyann

The course of life and labour reminds me of a long journey I once took on the railway. Suddenly, there was a breakdown ahead, and passengers took the event in various ways. Some of them sat still resignedly, and never said a word. Others again, went to sleep. But some of us leaped out of that train, and ran on ahead to clear the road of all obstructions.” Michael Collins

Seems to be he said it best,Fence sitters and shouters and sleepers and the ones who take action.Never unanimous.

here.from.day.1

caseyann wrote: »

The course of life and labour reminds me of a long journey I once took on the railway. Suddenly, there was a breakdown ahead, and passengers took the event in various ways. Some of them sat still resignedly, and never said a word. Others again, went to sleep. But some of us leaped out of that train, and ran on ahead to clear the road of all obstructions.” Michael Collins

Seems to be he said it best,Fence sitters and shouters and sleepers and the ones who take action.Never unanimous.

Wasn't it during trying to clear an obstruction he was shot dead..? Hmm..

flutered

i emailed my three tds as regards this, john cregan dff assistant party whip, niall collins dff, and dan neville fg, the only reply i got was from niall collins, who assured me that tds are paid a fixed amount to cover all expenses, payed monthly in fixed amounts, and i could rest easy as there are no surplus, plus he had only one weeks hollidays this year, i emailed him back asking how come our ex t-shock could recieve goverment payments without having tax clearence, as it is required to recieve payment from the state, i have recieved no answer from him on this, this just proves what each party thinks of john c citizen, as if i did not know.