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"no, I'm actually an athiest"

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    #1982
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    MrStuffins wrote: »

    So, again, are you telling me it is ok to support an organisation that facilitates child-rape, as long as your parish gets its fair share?

    No that's not what I said at all.

    It is most certainly not ok to support Child Rape.


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    #1983
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    steve06 wrote: »
    My biggest issue with people who support the catholic church is that they try and go back to statistics and basically say "well other people did it to and they weren't priests" as if it makes it in any way better..

    It doesn't. Nor was it ever intended to do that. It's a counter to the false claims that priests are more likely to abuse someone than a plumber or a mechanic or a greengrocer. People are going to be so busy watching the priests they will miss the teacher abusing students etc.


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    #1984
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    No that's not what I said at all.

    It is most certainly not ok to support Child Rape.

    Then stop contributing to the Church!


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    #1985
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    steve06 wrote: »
    No, but there was before they were convicted.

    Really? I didn't know that, that's awful.

    Links? Not because I don't believe you btw, I'm just curious:)


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    #1986
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Then stop contributing to the Church!

    Sir Yes Sir!


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    #1987
    Saganist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Saganist


    Have we gotten to the bottom of God's existence ( or lack thereof ) yet. ?


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    #1988
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    prinz wrote: »
    It doesn't. Nor was it ever intended to do that. It's a counter to the false claims that priests are more likely to abuse someone than a plumber or a mechanic or a greengrocer.

    Well if you look at those trades or any other trade and get a ratio of child molester per capita so to speak, then I'm pretty sure that the level of child molesters in the RCC would be the highest.


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    #1989
    mossyc123
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    steve06 wrote: »
    No, but there was before they were convicted.

    So is Audrey's couple of quid a week Ok with you guy's now or not?! Benevolence fund for unconvicted paedophiles?!


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    #1990
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    steve06 wrote: »
    Well if you look at those trades or any other trade and get a ratio of child molester per capita so to speak, then I'm pretty sure that the level of child molesters in the RCC would be the highest.

    I doubt that very much. I'm sorry but being a priest does not make you more likely to abuse than any other man.

    In fact most children are abused by fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles etc who most likely are not clergy.


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    #1991
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    So is Audrey's couple of quid a week Ok with you guy's now or not?! Benevolence fund for unconvicted paedophiles?!
    The catholic church is still paying out, and details of all the molestation that took place still has not come to surface. So any contribution to the church, is still a contribution to the fund.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I doubt that very much. I'm sorry but being a priest does not make you more likely to abuse than any other man.
    I never said it did, I'm saying for a small enough group, the level of abuse is pretty high.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    In fact most children are abused by fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles etc who most likely are not clergy.
    But like I said, there's more fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles etc than there are priests.


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    #1992
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Saganist wrote: »
    Have we gotten to the bottom of God's existence ( or lack thereof ) yet. ?

    Turns out due to the multi-verse hypothesis he both does and does not exist simultaneously an infinite amount of times.

    So we are all right. Yeeehaaa! Everybody wins.


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    #1993
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    So is Audrey's couple of quid a week Ok with you guy's now or not?! Benevolence fund for unconvicted paedophiles?!

    In fairness I probably am wrong to donate but I assumed my cash was for my Parish.

    My mistake.


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    #1994
    Saganist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Saganist


    strobe wrote: »
    Turns out due to the multi-verse hypothesis he both does and does not exist simultaneously an infinite amount of times.

    So we are all right. Yeeehaaa! Everybody wins.

    Are you trying to say that he is unknowable ?


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    #1995
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,164 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Sir Yes Sir!

    No need to be smug about it :P


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    #1996
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Saganist wrote: »
    Are you trying to say that he is unknowable ?

    I think he's saying god is a cat :eek:


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    #1997
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    No need to be smug about it :P

    I was actually trying to be light-hearted :D


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    #1998
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Malty_T wrote: »
    I'd actually have hoped you have picked a different publication as the IC doesn't seem to know anything about statistics or comparisons, tbh. ;)
    No, they don't :)

    The IC produced the "4% of convicted pedophiles are priests" headline and I worked backwards from there.


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    #1999
    Saganist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Saganist


    prinz wrote: »
    I think he's saying god is a cat :eek:

    Makes more sense than most other "Gods" out there !


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    #2000
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I doubt that very much. I'm sorry but being a priest does not make you more likely to abuse than any other man.

    In fact most children are abused by fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles etc who most likely are not clergy.

    The argument has been made that the requirements of the job are such as to make the career relatively undesireable to men with "normal" sexual tendencies.
    As a result, the people who do end up becoming priests show high numbers of people with... well, less "normal" leanings.
    It's not exactly a secret that the numbers of homosexual priests are utterly distorted when compared to the rest of society, and it's quite likely that the number of pedophiles in the clergy is equally higher than average.
    It just sort of comes with the job description...


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    #2001
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    I think we should roll up the smug in a rug, snug, like a bug.... and leave it there.


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    #2002
    mossyc123
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    steve06 wrote: »
    The catholic church is still paying out, and details of all the molestation that took place still has not come to surface. So any contribution to the church, is still a contribution to the fund.

    Paying out to the victims yes?
    Sounds like a good solution to me, patrons of the Church pay for the crimes of the Church. Would you prefer if the State had to pay all the Churches share as well?! I personally have no trouble with any money I put into the basket going towards victims of abuse


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    #2003
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But you can't blame the ordinary joe soap church goer for the priests and bishops and Vatican did.
    Like seriously, Audrey, are you actually reading my posts or are you just looking at one or two words in them?

    I didn't say anything about the ordinary punters. :confused:
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    If anyone knew what was going they were sworn to secrecy and too scared to come forward.
    Ah, that's ok then.


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    #2004
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Shenshen wrote: »
    The argument has been made that the requirements of the job are such as to make the career relatively undesireable to men with "normal" sexual tendencies.
    As a result, the people who do end up becoming priests show high numbers of people with... well, less "normal" leanings.
    It's not exactly a secret that the numbers of homosexual priests are utterly distorted when compared to the rest of society, and it's quite likely that the number of pedophiles in the clergy is equally higher than average.
    It just sort of comes with the job description...

    Where in the description of the priesthood does it say you have to be a Child Molester to join or that in joining you must agree to spend your life abusing children?


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    #2005
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Saganist wrote: »
    Makes more sense than most other "Gods" out there !

    But I'm more of a dog person....and dog is god in reverse.. :eek:


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    #2006
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I'm sorry but being a priest does not make you more likely to abuse than any other man.
    I've already quoted figures from the "Irish Catholic" which suggest that a priest is FORTY TIMES more likely to be a convicted pedophiles than a regular member of the public.

    Forty times more likely according to the IC.

    If you only take one thing away from this thread, then take that figure :)


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    #2007
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,976 ✭✭✭optogirl


    prinz wrote: »
    It doesn't. Nor was it ever intended to do that. It's a counter to the false claims that priests are more likely to abuse someone than a plumber or a mechanic or a greengrocer. People are going to be so busy watching the priests they will miss the teacher abusing students etc.


    Again, it is the organisation and how they deal with it that is the problem. If a plumber or mechanic or greengrocer abuses, their employer would not deny this and just move them to another area to continue their abuse.


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    #2008
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    robindch wrote: »
    Ah, that's ok then.

    I know it's not ok. I was trying to show that the silence around it wasn't necessarily because liked or agreed with what was happening.


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    #2009
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Shenshen wrote: »
    The argument has been made that the requirements of the job are such as to make the career relatively undesireable to men with "normal" sexual tendencies.
    ...
    It just sort of comes with the job description...


    And that argument has been demonstrated to have no basis whatsoever in terms of likelihood of abuse occuring.


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    #2010
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    Paying out to the victims yes?
    Sounds like a good solution to me, patrons of the Church pay for the crimes of the Church. Would you prefer if the State had to pay all the Churches share as well?! I personally have no trouble with any money I put into the basket going towards victims of abuse
    The RCC is one of the wealthiest and most powerful organisations in the world. They can afford to pay out without any more help or contribution.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Where in the description of the priesthood does it say you have to be a Child Molester to join or that in joining you must agree to spend your life abusing children?
    Nowhere, but it does discourage anyone with a normal sex drive to become part of it.


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    #2011
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Where in the description of the priesthood does it say you have to be a Child Molester to join or that in joining you must agree to spend your life abusing children?

    He didn't say that. At all.


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