Breakfast diners/ Ireland-US initiative

cailinban

Hi there, *mods please remove if unsuitable for this forum, I was unable to find a suitable forum on the drop down list*

I wondered about the US phenomenon of breakfast diners, and I wondered if anybody had any insight as to why this does not exist in Ireland -that is, a Dennys for example.

My reason for asking this is mainly for opinions, or anyone who is knowledgeable in this area.

I wondered if Ireland or its major cities would be a suitable place to set up one such business as a non-franchise situation.

Thanks for any input in the right direction

lion_bar

I know people who used to laugh when they saw pizza delivery on american tv shows and reckoned it would never work here.

One well know rugby pundit is also alledged to have turned down McDonalds because he didn't think it would work here. So american concepts can transfer.

Having said that i think Ireland is pretty well served by businesses selling breakfasts. You have lots of cafe's who are open from breakfast with a wide variety and standard of fare, you have McDonalds, you have breakfast roles in petrol stations, you have canteens in some workplaces and you can walk into most hotels and sit down for breakfast.

I've looked at denny's website and can't really see anything extraordinary about it, though that fried cheese melt looks deadly.

suey71

I'm surprised there are no Taco Bell restaurants here. If I'm not mistaken they are owned by the same people who own KFC.

maxwell smart

I think that there are simply not enough people in Ireland who would go out and sit down in a diner and eat an average cover of, say, €15.

Would the people who stop at the garage go into Denny's (or equivalent?) instead? I think people who stop at the garage don't have the time to sit down. So that's a large sector of the market gone.

Its a question of demographics in my opinion.

Remember, KFC has failed twice in Ireland. Dunkin Donuts failed, 7-11 failed.

Some concepts just don't translate well.

Personally I would be a customer, I love Denny's.

bigneacy

A Denny's style restaurant could do well here... The reality is, they didn't know if McDondalds would work here and it did, they didn't know if Dunkin' Donuts would work here and it didn't.

It really could go either way. Also the name Denny is pretty much synonomous here with breakfast, might be a good idea to see about getting the rights to the name to use as a restaurant? (just a thought).

The problem with the breakfast roll market is that they need quick and convenient solution. The addition of a drive thru-esque concept would satisfy that portion of the market.

The hard part would be to get the balance right - the reason dennys in america works is because of the friendly, homely atmosphere. For it to work here in Ireland you would have to strike the balance between local greasy spoon and a sleek starbucks. Somewhere in the middle would probably work well. And also, try to find the balance between overly american and overly local. Irish opinion is split pretty much 50-50 on how we feel about america/americans.

Personally i'd like something of the sort. Sounds like a nice place to go and eat breakfast... "some more coffee, hun" :cool:

Jesus Wept

maxwell smart wrote: »

I think that there are simply not enough people in Ireland who would go out and sit down in a diner and eat an average cover of, say, €15.

Would the people who stop at the garage go into Denny's (or equivalent?) instead? I think people who stop at the garage don't have the time to sit down. So that's a large sector of the market gone.

Its a question of demographics in my opinion.

Remember, KFC has failed twice in Ireland. Dunkin Donuts failed, 7-11 failed.

Some concepts just don't translate well.

Personally I would be a customer, I love Denny's.

For €15e, probably not.
You typically get well fed in American diner's for considerably less.
I'm not sure if or why this isn't possible here.

American diners > McDonalds > Café in this country > Breakfast roles.
But my tastes probably vary from the majority.

There are few KFC's around, in what sense did they fail?
Don't remember 7-11 coming here, they failed?

Gloomtastic!

My favorite time to eat in America was always breakfast, loved Dennys.

Our local caf here in north Dublin does a bomb still but it is seriously bad and a rip-off. But people don't seem to know what a decent breakfast is or maybe they just don't care! Having said that, they love their breakfasts in the UK and there are none there either - Little Chef might be the closest.

With a 'new' concept like this I'd create my own franchise as opposed to lumbering yourself with franchise fees etc

The retail parks would bite your hand off at the moment and a nice site beside a Woodies would be a good place to start........

bigneacy

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

The retail parks would bite your hand off at the moment and a nice site beside a Woodies would be a good place to start........

A cafe opened near woodies in the middle of the retail park here in Dundalk. It is so busy you wouldn't believe.... They need about 10 or 11 staff to keep the place running, and the food isn't even that nice. I'd say they are turning over between 3000 and 5000 a day. Not bad at all for a non-franchised food place. McDonalds would be proud of that figure!

Gloomtastic!

bigneacy wrote: »

A cafe opened near woodies in the middle of the retail park here in Dundalk. It is so busy you wouldn't believe.... They need about 10 or 11 staff to keep the place running, and the food isn't even that nice. I'd say they are turning over between 3000 and 5000 a day. Not bad at all for a non-franchised food place. McDonalds would be proud of that figure!

Do it, review it, change it! But you'll only know if you do it!!!!!!

Jesus Wept

I didn't think a retail park would be a good location.

Gloomtastic!

The-Rigger wrote: »

I didn't think a retail park would be a good location.

It's perfect and it has loads of parking!

bigneacy

Yeah..... easy parking is one of my main factors for choosing where to get food... Unless its a large city then a central location isn't hugely relevant. Don't get me wrong, its not irrelevant, but its not hugely important either. People will travel if its good. A retail park would be ideal.

Jesus Wept

I'm not a car owner, so not having to drive is the main factor for me.

maxwell smart

The-Rigger wrote: »

For €15e, probably not.
You typically get well fed in American diner's for considerably less.
I'm not sure if or why this isn't possible here.

American diners > McDonalds > Café in this country > Breakfast roles.
But my tastes probably vary from the majority.

There are few KFC's around, in what sense did they fail?
Don't remember 7-11 coming here, they failed?

The €15 cover was just a guestimate based on the investment needed for an "American" style diner based on Denny's. You do get very well fed for a lot less in the states, but the waiting staff work for basically bugger all plus the tips, that won't work here!

KFC is now in its 3rd launch in Ireland, the first two franchise holders having failed with their launch. Looks like its doing well now.

Chet Zar

Yer all gonna laugh...but I'm just back from breakfast in Denny's Great breakfast too!! In Vancouver.

2 French toast, scrambled eggs, 2 strips of bacon, 2 sausages, hash browns, 2 orange juices = CAD 17/12 euro.

Funnily enough, I've been vaguely wondering lately why Ireland doesn't have the breakfast diner concept...I think it would be a smash hit personally. Whatever about the finer details (wages, cost of buying/leasing a premises, equipment, insurance etc), no matter how bad a recession people will always need to eat and a lot the time these places set up in the right locations could turn out to be goldmines...people love to go in and order a big breakfast of a Saturday morning, bring the kids, do the shopping etc.

Hmm....

J_Wholesale

There is a real problem getting a decent breakfast in this country if you eat breakfast before work. As far as I'm concerned McDonalds's and petrol station rolls don't count. Fast food (which is all they are) is fine for some people, but not for anyone who really cares about what they eat.

Things may be different in Dublin, but around the country you simply can't sit down for a breakfast at 7:30 in the morning. Cafes often don't open for breakfast until 9:30 - probably because they aim to serve the the benefits and shopping crowd, not the actual workers - and the cafe owners like their beauty sleep.

I've been crying over the lack of decent cafes in Ireland for years, so yes please - bring it on!

cailinban

Hi all,

thank you to the posters and the cafe-goers who shared their opinions in this regard. We're going to do a bit of research between the UK and Canada and the United States over the next year and hopefully develop a plan. Dublin seems like it might work as a starting point but we also looked starting in Galway or Cork on account of the business hubs and not to mention the universities there.

I'll post any feedback on this if we get it started. We found a likely investor who owns two hotels and a pub who said he'd be interested in helping us get off the ground if and when the time comes.

Watch this space!

Mr.Boots

Dennys=Horible.
Good concept but poor quality.
We dont have enough fat people in ireland (yet) for it to work.

ssbob

cailinban wrote: »

Hi all,

thank you to the posters and the cafe-goers who shared their opinions in this regard. We're going to do a bit of research between the UK and Canada and the United States over the next year and hopefully develop a plan. Dublin seems like it might work as a starting point but we also looked starting in Galway or Cork on account of the business hubs and not to mention the universities there.

I'll post any feedback on this if we get it started. We found a likely investor who owns two hotels and a pub who said he'd be interested in helping us get off the ground if and when the time comes.

Watch this space!

Hey Cailinban,

Have a look at Tony's Bistro on North Main Street in Cork, they are breakfast specialists, sit doewn breakfasts from €6-€12, would be a great starting point. They're restaraunt is a bit small but if you have a look at the clientele going in there then you would get a great feel for what you need.

It would make sense to try and link this to a hotel/bar chain.

Good Luck with it.

Macers

suey71 wrote: »

I'm surprised there are no Taco Bell restaurants here. If I'm not mistaken they are owned by the same people who own KFC.

They're running a pilot premises in UK soon with a view to coming back into the market across Europe.

I deal with the company..