The Knowledge Based Economy on tour.

AlekSmart

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/football-fan-who-left-elderly-woman-crippled-for-life-walks-free-from-court-2368754.html

With each passing day modern Ireland`s image becomes nearer the classic 19th Century Punch cartoon.

Ignorance,aggression and the ever present willingness to "bate the head offa ye" are fast reemerging as our national traits.

In this case it`s not young Mr Kelly`s part in destroying an old womans quality of life that rankles with me nor is it his part in adding to the stress and grief of another family,no,its the all too typical Irish refusal to accept that there are consequences to our actions.

No doub t we`ll hear,"Ah sure they were only young lads having the craic "..."It was an awful accident"...."nobody could have foreseen it" etc...

We might even be treated to "If them Austrians had only let the lads take the bike dis wud nevera happened"...

What is it about our culture that sends our youth off on these wild flights of fecklessness both at home and abroad and expects tolerance of it?

Whether it`s lying around drinking and ingesting narcotic substances,begetting children or attacking foreign workers we appear to be developing quite nicely into the exact type of people civilized societies quite rightly shun.

Perhaps we as a society need to start feeling embarrassed when yet another young,supposedly intelligent,educated Irish person is arraigned on such charges in a foreign land...perhaps until we do our willingness to accept,even encourage this type of stuff will remain our defining National Characteristic ?

Yitzhak Rabin

Obviously, we are not the only country with extremely lax sentencing. How that lad only received a suspended sentence is beyond me. He may not have killed that poor woman, but he has certainly ended her life.

What happens when people have to pay 300,000 medical bills. Who actually pays that? Is it the victim? or the accused because, that chap wouldn't earn 300,000 in a decade of sundays.

Amhran Nua

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whether it`s lying around drinking and ingesting narcotic substances,begetting children or attacking foreign workers we appear to be developing quite nicely into the exact type of people civilized societies quite rightly shun.

Bald racism. Every developed country has these problems, and most of them a lot more so than us. I haven't seen any race riots of the kind enjoyed by the US, the UK, France, and our other "civilised" neighbours, so no, you don't get to hold up the actions of a few miscreants as representative of an entire nation.

OhNoYouDidn't

Bohs hoolies acting the maggot, run from a square go, accidentaly floor an old woman and then hide behind the rest of their fans.

Sounds like their MO alright, ask any LoI fan.

Not sure how you can extrapolate that the entire country are vermin though...

Coillte_Bhoy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Bohs hoolies acting the maggot, run from a square go, accidentaly floor an old woman and then hide behind the rest of their fans.

Sounds like their MO alright, ask any LoI fan.

Not sure how you can extrapolate that the entire country are vermin though...

Oh right, so it's just because he'[s a Bohs fan is it?? Such bull****.

OhNoYouDidn't

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Oh right, so it's just because he'[s a Bohs fan is it?? Such bull****.

He is a Bohs fan. He was on an away trip with Bohs. Bohs have previous for this. An accident happened when they were up to shenanigans and a lady got very seriously injured. The rest of the Bohs fans closed ranks.

Whats in dispute?

Coillte_Bhoy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

He is a Bohs fan. He was on an away trip with Bohs. Bohs have previous for this. An accident happened when they were up to shenanigans and a lady got very seriously injured. The rest of the Bohs fans closed ranks.

Whats in dispute?

And a fan of no other club would have acted like this on an away trip?? And fellow fans would not have closed ranks?? Gimme abreak.

OhNoYouDidn't

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And a fan of no other club would have acted like this on an away trip?? And fellow fans would not have closed ranks?? Gimme abreak.

Who knows? No fans of any other club stuck a granny in a coma, so its a hypothetical quesion.

Bohs have pointedly failed to in any way tackle their hooligans and now an old ladies life is destroyed.

LostinBlanch

Personally I was disgusted to hear about this. I don't care who he is, or what club he supports that is just the behaviour of a sc*mbag.

I seem to remember some Bohs fans a few years ago in Derry going into a loyalist bar to beat up whoever was in there. They were arrested and jailed within a couple of days IIRC.

Proper order too.

OhNoYouDidn't

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Personally I was disgusted to hear about this. I don't care who he is, or what club he supports that is just the behaviour of a sc*mbag.

I seem to remember some Bohs fans a few years ago in Derry going into a loyalist bar to beat up whoever was in there. They were arrested and jailed within a couple of days IIRC.

Proper order too.

And they are back at Bohs games. Which is my point that they have failed to deal with the Dorset St slumrats and this is what happened.

Coillte_Bhoy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And they are back at Bohs games. Which is my point that they have failed to deal with the Dorset St slumrats and this is what happened.

Those lads that caused the trouble in Derry are allowed back?? I didnt know that. That's crazy. Anyway, i have been on dozens of Irish away trips and there has always been a small scumbag element, mainly form Dublin, with the potential for a serious incident which thankfully never materialised. My point being that there is a significant scumbag element in Irish society and i think it's unfair to blame Bohs in particular. I take your point about the club not dealing with the issue though.

Einhard

Yeah, because the Germans have never shown themselves to be in any way aggressive....

Only the Irish...

My name is URL

AlekSmart wrote: »

No doub t we`ll hear,"Ah sure they were only young lads having the craic "..."It was an awful accident"...."nobody could have foreseen it" etc...

We might even be treated to "If them Austrians had only let the lads take the bike dis wud nevera happened"...

Who might we hear those lines from exactly? I certainly don't know anyone who would try to defend what that scrote did.

Ignorance,aggression and the ever present willingness to "bate the head offa ye" are fast reemerging as our national traits.
[...]
willingness to accept,even encourage this type of stuff will remain our defining National Characteristic

Absolute claptrap tbh.. any rational person would not define the traits of a nation, by the actions of a few of that nation's bottom-feeders. You seem to be doing it though

johnnyskeleton

Yet another example about how the Irish criminal justice system is completely out of whack with other european courts....

...oh wait....

Really, is there nothing you can't rant about when it comes to mentions of crime in the media?

AlekSmart

So no, you don't get to hold up the actions of a few miscreants as representative of an entire nation.

No indeed Amhran Nua,I`m not doing that,as yet,however those "few miscreants" appear to be increasing in both number and boldness by the day.

I suppose part of the reason for their empowerment is our native dislike for "holding up" their actions or confronting them with the consequences of them ?

It`s also quite illumination how many of the responses to the OP focused on this lad`s supposed status as a Bohemians FC supporter,something which had gone well over my head as I believed it totally irrelevant to the crime at hand.

Both Johnnyskeleton...

Really, is there nothing you can't rant about when it comes to mentions of crime in the media?

...and My Name is URL...

Absolute claptrap tbh.. any rational person would not define the traits of a nation, by the actions of a few of that nation's bottom-feeders. You seem to be doing it though

...appear to see my post as some form of attack on the notion of a civilized country where reasonableness prevails amongst the populace at large.

However ranting it may seem,I do feel that we as a society have a great tolerance for the types of abberant behaviour amongst our youth which has developed a tendency to leave death in its wake.

Whilst the media reportage may well be considered enough by some,surely it`s no bad thing to probe other peoples opinions,be they for or agin the proposition ?

Personally I feel Coillte Bhoy is quite correct here...

My point being that there is a significant scumbag element in Irish society and i think it's unfair to blame Bohs in particular

.

It is the extent of the term "significant" which should perhaps be concentrating our minds..?

Amhran Nua

AlekSmart wrote: »

No indeed Amhran Nua,I`m not doing that,as yet,however those "few miscreants" appear to be increasing in both number and boldness by the day.

You mean the newspapers are increasing their coverage of incidents. To my mind things are better than they used to be back in the 80s. Have you got any stats to back up this crime wave?

My name is URL

AlekSmart wrote: »

Personally I feel Coillte Bhoy is quite correct here....

It is the extent of the term "significant" which should perhaps be concentrating our minds..?

There's a perceived significant scumbag element in Ireland. It's mainly perceived to be that way by us though.

Which country should we be aspiring to reflect? Ireland has relatively low crime rates compared to other EU countries. We tend to class a larger portion of the population as being scumbags too.. and when something like this happens it gives the people justification they need to lament about how everyone else is allowing it to happen.

If what you're aiming to say is that sentencing is too lenient and inconsistent in Ireland then I'd agree with you.. but to chalk it down to the public tolerating serious crimes is ludicrous.

AlekSmart

There's a perceived significant scumbag element in Ireland. It's mainly perceived to be that way by us though.

Yup MNIU,and I suppose it was and will be ever thus.

What at one time might have been described as a "Silent Majority" could be percieved now as a dwindling group,but then perhaps that`s the price of keeping ourselves safe ?

Maybe we are,in the big-picture,a model of peace and tranquility,but we sure have a burgeoning level of anti-social misfittery swirling around us which I suppose we can recognize...or not ?

But to chalk it down to the public tolerating serious crimes is ludicrous.

I`m not necessarily "chalking it down" to anything,more attempting to portray my own opinion that,yes,the level of public tolerance in Ireland for low-level anti-social and criminal behaviour virtually guarantees us the spin-off...it`s within our own gift to alter that.

Amhran Nua posted....

You mean the newspapers are increasing their coverage of incidents. To my mind things are better than they used to be back in the 80s. Have you got any stats to back up this crime wave?

I`m not sure if AN,you suggest that the Media should downplay their portrayal of such "incidents" ?

Somehow hoping that if we "Say it ain`t so,Ma" then it will magically disappear ?

To my mind,no matter how lurid the coverage of an incident is,the end result remains the same as we see depictions of real grief and suffering on the faces of many who are not part of the criminal milleu....I believe these people do count for something.

AN may well have a belief that some official statistics exist which portray us as having a relatively calm ordered socirty in comparison to the 1980`s...perhaps they do,but I`d be ever dubious of such statistics as they depend for their veracity on the ethos of those collecting and collating them....

I suppose it`s like the two Brian`s assuring us all that corners have been turned whilst all we keep coming upon are more of the very same items ?.

Amhran Nua

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not sure if AN,you suggest that the Media should downplay their portrayal of such "incidents" ?

Two things you can be sure of: the media will drum up as much hysteria as possible to sell newspapers, and that you won't be allowed to get away with tarring the whole country with the same bent brush.

OhNoYouDidn't

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Those lads that caused the trouble in Derry are allowed back?? I didnt know that. That's crazy. Anyway, i have been on dozens of Irish away trips and there has always been a small scumbag element, mainly form Dublin, with the potential for a serious incident which thankfully never materialised. My point being that there is a significant scumbag element in Irish society and i think it's unfair to blame Bohs in particular. I take your point about the club not dealing with the issue though.

I'm blaming B*hs in particular because this was B*hs. I agree there is an element of bad luck here, could have happened on any footie trip or stag, but you ignore a problem to this extent and this is what happens.

sickofwaiting

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Yet another example about how the Irish criminal justice system is completely out of whack with other european courts....

...oh wait....

It's not comparable.

This guy tried to steal a bike...that was basically his crime. He didn't intentionally knock over the old woman, if he was being chased by a group it's highly likely he didn't even realise that he'd knocked her down and injured her.

Whereas in Ireland you have people intentionally committing very serious crimes and getting a slap on the wrist. Go to Austria and rape someone and see if you get a suspended sentence. Or kick someone to death as part of a group and see what happens to that group (as opposed to the group in the Brian Murphy case).

murphaph

Given Alek Smart's profession, I tend to take his opinion seriously. He would be more likely than most to see "a certain element" pass his way than a lot of us.

Wrt crime stats: Irish people, in my opinion, are less likely to actually report crime. Say a load of lads are out for pints of an evening. A scuffle ensues, someone's nose is bloodied. This is assault (a serious crime in pretty much every other western European jurisdiction), but we all know that the likelihood of this ever being reported to AGS is actually quite low.

Lots of things go unreported in Ireland, so called "petty crime" is regularly unreported. I know from my own experience that a lot of larceny is never reported, particularly shoplifting, as stores don't have the time to wait for what could be an hour or two for the Gardai to show up.

I personally do not see why we should have to tolerate ANY anti-social behaviour (crime). We had a harsh system under the bould brits, maybe we have swung way too far the other way since they departed our shores. I am a conservative and make no apology for that. I believe crime should be punished and punished harshly.

murphaph

sickofwaiting wrote: »

It's not comparable.

This guy tried to steal a bike...that was basically his crime. He didn't intentionally knock over the old woman, if he was being chased by a group it's highly likely he didn't even realise that he'd knocked her down and injured her.

Whereas in Ireland you have people intentionally committing very serious crimes and getting a slap on the wrist. Go to Austria and rape someone and see if you get a suspended sentence. Or kick someone to death as part of a group and see what happens to that group (as opposed to the group in the Brian Murphy case).

I agree with you that he received no custodial sentence because he did not set out to harm the woman. That's a matter for the Austrians. I favour the model of some US states in which they have a simple law: If you commit a crime, any crime, and the result of that crime is the death of a person, you will be charged with murder.

AlekSmart

My Name is URL posted.....

Who might we hear those lines from exactly? I certainly don't know anyone who would try to defend what that scrote did.

............

Sickofwaiting then posted....

It's not comparable.

This guy tried to steal a bike...that was basically his crime. He didn't intentionally knock over the old woman, if he was being chased by a group it's highly likely he didn't even realise that he'd knocked her down and injured her.

But anyway to move on a wee bit.......

Amhran Nua posted....

Two things you can be sure of: the media will drum up as much hysteria as possible to sell newspapers, and that you won't be allowed to get away with tarring the whole country with the same bent brush.

In this particular instance,the Irish Indo article was quite factual containing only the accounts of the Court Proceedings and the Austrian Prosecutor`s opinions.

Perhaps it`s worth re-reading as I cannot see any overt hysterical line in the report..by all means lash the Media when they do attempt it but in this case it`s just the facts.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-2368754.html

As for tarring the whole country,I`ll readily admit that that`s not my intention here,so you`ll just have to take my opinions at face value.

What I do believe is that occurrences such as this are representative of a behavioural process which when tolerated,excused and overlooked eventually tars the entire country with that bent-brush without any assistance from the likes of myself.

Amhran Nua

AlekSmart wrote: »

As for tarring the whole country,I`ll readily admit that that`s not my intention here

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whether it`s lying around drinking and ingesting narcotic substances,begetting children or attacking foreign workers we appear to be developing quite nicely into the exact type of people civilized societies quite rightly shun.

So what exactly was your intention? To highlight some sort of national failure to report crime as evidenced by the report of crime in the newspaper? We don't appear to be developing into "the exact type of people civilized societies quite rightly shun" and unless you have the numbers to back it up, I suggest you retract your racist comment. And why would civilised societies shun people who beget children? Have they no intention of existing in 50 years? The whole thread is a giant slur on the national character of Irish people, whatever that may be.

AlekSmart

So what exactly was your intention? To highlight some sort of national failure to report crime as evidenced by the report of crime in the newspaper? We don't appear to be developing into "the exact type of people civilized societies quite rightly shun" and unless you have the numbers to back it up, I suggest you retract your racist comment. And why would civilised societies shun people who beget children? Have they no intention of existing in 50 years? The whole thread is a giant slur on the national character of Irish people, whatever that may be.

Yup Amhran Nua,I suppose that`s a good enough reason to start with,presumably seeking a sense of wider opinion on the issue is ok with you ?

I`m not so sure I`ll withraw what Amhran Nua precieves as a racist comment as I did`nt make it with any specific Race,Colour or Creed in mind but rather the "Sense of Irishness" we try to portray and in some cases embrace....funny,carefree,literate.

However if we are prepared as a society to assure ourselves that all is ok,then the 21st Centurry Jay Leno caricature will become just as widely accepted as the Punch Magazine one was 150 years ago. It`s all a matter of what one`s tolerance for acceptance is ...mine and Amhran Nua`s clearly differ...and that`s surely a good thing to be free to express,is it not ?

The element of having children is not an issue of itself,one can have a single child or multiples of them,but the issue of parental responsibility for those children is very much a live one,as when that responsibility is avoided,the general expectation is for somebody else to step in and make up the loss.

As for my views being a "giant slur on the Irish People"

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole here,but once again it`s how you view it I suppose.

The greater mass of the Irish People are just attempting to get by and escape from the deprivations imposed upon them by a small number of well connected individuals who subverted the administration of the entire country and essentially bankrupted it....

Whether or not we are prepared to watch a similar situation develop in relation to the general Social mores of our society is another issue...some,such as Amhran Nua perhaps may be happy with the status quo,others like myself are somewhat fearful of continuing as we presently are...if that concern is considered racist,fair enough,but there you have it.

Nodin

Whats this all to do with politics....?

AlekSmart

Whats this all to do with politics....?

Depends Nodin I suppose on one`s definition of what constitutes Politics. ?

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not sure if AN,you suggest that the Media should downplay their portrayal of such "incidents" ?

Somehow hoping that if we "Say it ain`t so,Ma" then it will magically disappear ?

I think you realise full well that his point is that you can't extrapolate a general trend from a specific incident. If I open a newspaper and read about a bus crash, it doesn't tell me anything about the other thousands of busses that arrived without a hitch and gave people a good service. So your attempt to suggest that the Irish abroad have a bad rap is like reading about a bus crash and avoiding using public transport for fear that it might happen to you.

AlekSmart wrote: »

To my mind,no matter how lurid the coverage of an incident is,the end result remains the same as we see depictions of real grief and suffering on the faces of many who are not part of the criminal milleu....I believe these people do count for something.

If someone gave you a book about 20th century history, your head would probably explode because of all the pain inflicted on man by his fellow man. But I don't see you saying anything about that.

AlekSmart wrote: »

AN may well have a belief that some official statistics exist which portray us as having a relatively calm ordered socirty in comparison to the 1980`s...perhaps they do,but I`d be ever dubious of such statistics as they depend for their veracity on the ethos of those collecting and collating them....

That's right, trust your gut and bias over independently verified statistics.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I suppose it`s like the two Brian`s assuring us all that corners have been turned whilst all we keep coming upon are more of the very same items ?.

Yeah kinda. Except in that analogy, you are the two brians and AN is pointing to the reality. You are the one constantly pushing an agenda that crime is out of control, only for rational posters to point out that you are not correct based on statistics. Just so long as you realise your views are pure soap box then expect fairly short shrift from me, although feel free to post in AH for some gut feelings and plenty of thanks for each of your posts.

johnnyskeleton

sickofwaiting wrote: »

It's not comparable.

This guy tried to steal a bike...that was basically his crime. He didn't intentionally knock over the old woman, if he was being chased by a group it's highly likely he didn't even realise that he'd knocked her down and injured her.

So it would be comparable to a car accident due to careless/danagerous driving which leaves someone seriously injured? In Ireland prison sentences are common for such accidental injuries.

sickofwaiting wrote: »

Whereas in Ireland you have people intentionally committing very serious crimes and getting a slap on the wrist.

Such as? There have been occasions where a suspended sentence is given on a serious offence, but usually serious crimes are dealt with by way of prison sentence.

sickofwaiting wrote: »

Go to Austria and rape someone and see if you get a suspended sentence.Or kick someone to death as part of a group and see what happens to that group (as opposed to the group in the Brian Murphy case).

Do you have any statistics to demonstrate a disparity of sentencing? I'm sure in Austria, just as in Ireland, a suspended sentence for rape is possible, if unlikely. In the latter case, some of them received jail terms.

johnnyskeleton

murphaph wrote: »

Given Alek Smart's profession, I tend to take his opinion seriously. He would be more likely than most to see "a certain element" pass his way than a lot of us.

What is his profession? It doesn't seem to say it in the OP and he does not give out personal information in his profile. In any event, if someone claims to be of a certain profession, that doesn't carry a whole lot of weight in an anonymous forum.

If he/she is some sort of garda or police officer then surely there is an element of bias in his or her views making them less objective?

murphaph wrote: »

Wrt crime stats: Irish people, in my opinion, are less likely to actually report crime. Say a load of lads are out for pints of an evening. A scuffle ensues, someone's nose is bloodied. This is assault (a serious crime in pretty much every other western European jurisdiction), but we all know that the likelihood of this ever being reported to AGS is actually quite low.

About the same as anyone reporting same to any police organisation around the world. If you are involved in a drunken brawl to which you and a friend are equally responsible, you would be mad to report it. Equally, the fact that you may not want to report on a friend who bloodies your nose applies universally and is not a unique Irish thing.

murphaph wrote: »

Lots of things go unreported in Ireland, so called "petty crime" is regularly unreported. I know from my own experience that a lot of larceny is never reported, particularly shoplifting, as stores don't have the time to wait for what could be an hour or two for the Gardai to show up.

A lot of the time it is reported. Further, petty crime often goes unreported/unpunished across the world due to a number of factors. It is often unnoticed, police forces often don't have the staff or resources to be following up every incident etc. I know of very few shops that would catch someone shoplifting and simply not be bothered waiting for the gardai to arrive, but even taking that as true, it should not affect the statistics because the report would nevertheless have been made.

murphaph wrote: »

I personally do not see why we should have to tolerate ANY anti-social behaviour (crime). We had a harsh system under the bould brits, maybe we have swung way too far the other way since they departed our shores. I am a conservative and make no apology for that. I believe crime should be punished and punished harshly.

That's fine as a general proposition, but what specifically do you want done? We could have more police which costs more money, or we could have more prisons, which also costs more money? We could have preventative measures, which cost money, or we could have awareness campaigns etc, all of which cost money.

We could reintroduce the death penalty but in the US the costs of the death penalty are apparently almost as high as those of a lengthy prison sentence.

Finally, we could bring in birching which would probably satisfy a lot of people's bloodlust but would annoy our european neighbours who have made us swear against torture and unusual punishments.

So, the choices are that we can either put money into the problem, which we don't have, or we can break an international treaty we have signed up to with our allies (the same treaty which prevents the Turks joining the EU).

So forgetting any issue of theory, what in reality would you do?

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not so sure I`ll withraw what Amhran Nua precieves as a racist comment as I did`nt make it with any specific Race,Colour or Creed in mind but rather the "Sense of Irishness" we try to portray and in some cases embrace....funny,carefree,literate.

Irish is a race, and by suggesting that "attacking foreign workers" is one of the markers of what you despise, then it is in fact linked to race.

AlekSmart

Irish is a race, and by suggesting that "attacking foreign workers" is one of the markers of what you despise, then it is in fact linked to race.

Can`t say I despise it,Johnnyskeleton,I just look at it,listen to it,and wonder what can be done by any society and its constituent peoples to rein it in.

It`s probably just the easier option to shrug one`s shoulders, turn up the volume on the I Pod and walk hurriedly on by.

It`s perhaps salutory that of the 3 high-profile Non-National murders they involved Working folk being killed by non-working folk,maybe it counts for something,maybe not. :mad:

OOps nearly forgot,just to put the oul "Proffession" thing to bed.

I work as a Busdriver.

I was brought up by parents with a high regard for members of the "Proffessions"....Doctors,Solicitors,Bank Managers....(:eek:) etc.

They would never in a million years have described Busdriving as a Proffession.

There are ongoing attempts to raise the profile of the job and introduce various "Proffessional" sounding enhancements and requirements I prefer to simply trust my gut and regard it as just a Job which I do my best at...full stop.

So perhaps just like the Unbiased Garda,the unbiased Busdriver will have to remain a bridge-too-far ?

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

Can`t say I despise it,Johnnyskeleton,I just look at it,listen to it,and wonder what can be done by any society and its constituent peoples to rein it in.

It`s probably just the easier option to shrug one`s shoulders, turn up the volume on the I Pod and walk hurriedly on by.

It`s perhaps salutory that of the 3 high-profile Non-National murders they involved Working folk being killed by non-working folk,maybe it counts for something,maybe not. :mad:

Honestly, and I hate to use up my 1 personal abuse warning, but you've become a parody of yourself.

When you started off this debate (indeed, these debates as it is all you ever seem to talk about) you take the stance that you are the voice of reason, wanting to debate rationally what others do not.

For instance, you said earlier:

Whilst the media reportage may well be considered enough by some,surely it`s no bad thing to probe other peoples opinions,be they for or agin the proposition ?

And then when confronted with other people's opinions you go into this bizzare "ah sure be jaysus, who is to say, sure I'm for the ordinary decent folk, not them evil professionals, I don't need to answer your points, I just know I'm right, and my tears will say more than any logical argument could ever say" act.

You either want a reasonable debate in which case answer my points, or else you want a rant, in which case go to after hours (where you will be safe). But for decency's sake, stop reverting to this cap fiddling plain people of Ireland act every time you can't answer a point rationally.

It`s probably just the easier option to shrug one`s shoulders, turn up the volume on the I Pod and walk hurriedly on by.

You are suggesting that I do that? Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

OOps nearly forgot,just to put the oul "Proffession" thing to bed.

I work as a Busdriver.

I was brought up by parents with a high regard for members of the "Proffessions"....Doctors,Solicitors,Bank Managers....(:eek:) etc.

They would never in a million years have described Busdriving as a Proffession.

There are ongoing attempts to raise the profile of the job and introduce various "Proffessional" sounding enhancements and requirements I prefer to simply trust my gut and regard it as just a Job which I do my best at...full stop.

So perhaps just like the Unbiased Garda,the unbiased Busdriver will have to remain a bridge-too-far ?

Some other poster referred to you as being in a profession that gave you greater experience of this than others. That's why I asked. No need to rant.

AlekSmart

Honestly, and I hate to use up my 1 personal abuse warning, but you've become a parody of yourself.

When you started off this debate (indeed, these debates as it is all you ever seem to talk about) you take the stance that you are the voice of reason, wanting to debate rationally what others do not.

Jeepers Johnnyskeleton,don`t go using up your personal-abuse warning on me...i`m surely not worth wasting it on ?

Perhaps you are indeed correct,and people recognize the utter worthlessness of my contributions.

For sure I failed to appreciate the depth of feeling regarding the Bohemians FC angle,however it represented an interesting insight into how some might use the football fan angle to explain or rationalize any given action.

However maybe that line of thought is somewhat irrational too so it`s probably best left for another time & place ?

I really can`t see where the Stance-Taking issue comes from but again you appear to be unhappy with my expressed opinions and whilst I appreciate your guidance re After Hours posts, I do hope you won`t be offended if I respectfully decline to partake on this occasion.

Perhaps a major problem in modern Ireland is the extent to which the virtues of "reason" and "rational debate" you refer to,have been somewhat turned on their head by the events of the past two years.

I`m not certain that is of my making,but I do admire your certainty on these issues.


As for the Busdriving issue,you`re again most likely correct...I should have just said,Busdriver.

Then again,perhaps the question could have been truncated too....

What is his profession? It doesn't seem to say it in the OP and he does not give out personal information in his profile. In any event, if someone claims to be of a certain profession, that doesn't carry a whole lot of weight in an anonymous forum.

If he/she is some sort of garda or police officer then surely there is an element of bias in his or her views making them less objective?

How about reducing it to simply....."What is his profession ?".

But for decency's sake, stop reverting to this cap fiddling plain people of Ireland act every time you can't answer a point rationally.

.......I really can`t see the twain meeting here any time soon ?