Spoke tension

snollup

Looking for a little advise please.

Was cleaning the bike last night and noticed three or four spokes on the back wheel were really loose (as in just about to fall out).

What is the general rule when tightening spokes? I inagine they should all be at about the same tension?

Is this something I could do or am I likely to do more harm than good? Would I be better leaving it in to a bike shop to get sorted?

Thanks.

doozerie

Yes, the aim is for all of the spokes to have similar tension. On the back wheel though the spokes on the drive side usually (apart from some wheels) have a different tension to those on the non-drive side so don't aim for the same tension across both sides of that wheel. The easiest way to measure the tension is to pluck the spokes and work towards a sound in the same range for all of them.

Yes, you can do this yourself. Yes, you could potentially turn your wheel into an oval, pull it off centre (to one side), etc., but almost all of the "damage" that you can do can be undone by just being methodical and spending more time at it and in any case you should spot any such issues arising before they become a big chore to resolve. Wheels are not as fragile as they are often assumed to be and it's not a case of having to hit a very precise point in the adjustment range to achieve a good result (in fact, getting a wheel into the usable/acceptable range doesn't take long, the real time hog is getting it closer and closer to so-called perfect and even that gets quicker and easier with practice).

Given the number of spokes that you describe as being very loose right now, I would say the wheel is in a bad state and you'd probably have to go a long way to make it worse so do some reading, buy yourself a decent spoke key (I like the Park Tool ones), and give it a go yourself is my advice.

snollup

Thanks a mil for your reply. Will give it a go this eve.

CramCycle

Anyone know where you'd get a tensionometer in Ireland, I have terrible hearing

Lumen

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7131

doozerie

I have that Park Tool one but I suspect it is available from other sources for a better price than that. I might be wrong, as I bought mine several years ago (for a lot less than CRC's price if I recall correctly), but I think it would be worth looking around before opting for CRC.

In use, I've found my ear to be more reliable for me (probably just 'cos I am more used to doing it that way, even now), but having said that I have found the tensiometer useful. It can be hard to find recommended tension figures for specific combinations of hubs, spokes, and rims though, so unless you have an existing built wheel to check against then the tensiometer might well allow you to get the tension of all spokes close to each other but they might not actually be close to the correct tension. Mind you, that issue mainly arises when building wheels from scratch or when adjusting a wheel which has no remaining spoke which can serve as a reference.

There are apparently much better tensiometers available, but from what I have seen said about them they seem to cost several times the price of the Park Tool one.

doozerie

Just did a quick check to satisfy my own curiosity, and found the Park Tool tensiometer here on ebay for $69 including shipping. Given that it is Ebay you'd obviously have to decide for yourself whether to trust the seller, but that's a reasonable price.

Oh, and you shouldn't be stung for VAT and import duty on it as it is below the threshold value.

have2flushtwice

sorry to drag up an old thread, but how loose does a spoke have to be to be loose?!

I got a new bike at the weekend, and if i squeeze 2 spokes together with my fingers (where they touch as they cross over each other ) i can overlap them by maybe 5-8mm. is this too loose?
thanks

doozerie

I think it's impossible to say based entirely on how much they move - it's very subjective as it depends on the spoke pattern to a certain extent, the number of spokes in the wheel (less spokes means each spoke is under higher tension), your hand strength, etc.

Your easiest options are to pluck the spokes (spokes that are too loose will have a very flat sound) or compare with the spokes on a wheel that you believe to be okay. Otherwise, it may be a case of having to take it to a bike shop for an opinion.

D!armu!d

I have a couple of spokes on a back wheel that are really loose. When I try to tighten them the spoke & nipple just spin around together - WD40 isn't managing to separate them.
It feels as if the nipple is loose and not attached properly to the rim. Do I need to take the tyre off and tighten the screw from the inside?

serendip

D!armu!d wrote: »

I have a couple of spokes on a back wheel that are really loose. When I try to tighten them the spoke & nipple just spin around together - WD40 isn't managing to separate them.
It feels as if the nipple is loose and not attached properly to the rim. Do I need to take the tyre off and tighten the screw from the inside?

Don't understand. The spoke should not be able to "spin" because it's rotationally fixed at the hub.

serendip

D!armu!d wrote: »

I have a couple of spokes on a back wheel that are really loose. When I try to tighten them the spoke & nipple just spin around together - WD40 isn't managing to separate them.
It feels as if the nipple is loose and not attached properly to the rim. Do I need to take the tyre off and tighten the screw from the inside?

Could it be that the spokes are too long and the nipple has reached the end of the spoke's thread?

CramCycle

Depends what Diarmuid means by spin, are the spokes twisting? Means they are jammed/joined together, in which case, a drop of penetrating oil on each one and leave it for awhile to see does it become unstuck. Otherwise its a replacement job for those spokes.

The nipple is twisting freely? Threading is gone (have to be replaced), as Serendip said, wrong size spokes (replaced) etc.

The threads aren't catching as the nipple is going in a bit? Take off the tyre/tube and use a screwdriver, and some spoke/nipple glue (not sure of the name) to help it not unscrew as easily again.

D!armu!d

CramCycle wrote: »

The nipple is twisting freely? Threading is gone (have to be replaced), as Serendip said, wrong size spokes (replaced) etc.

The threads aren't catching as the nipple is going in a bit? Take off the tyre/tube and use a screwdriver, and some spoke/nipple glue (not sure of the name) to help it not unscrew as easily again.

The wheels are mavic aksiums and about a year old. The whole spoke & nipple are just twisting freely & not catching when I try to tighten. Sounds like it might need to be fixed in place again. Any idea what the glue is called?

Cheers

doozerie

The first question is what kind of wheel is being talked about here? Straight pull spokes? How do they attach at the hub? What kind of rim? What kind of nipple (exposed, hidden, etc.)? etc.

Nipples don't usually "attach" to the rim, they sit into it, but given the exotic nature of some wheels I don't think it's possible to guess what is being described in this case without more info.

doozerie

Aksiums have bladed spokes as far as I can remember. Hold the spoke while turning the nipple. You can buy a (cheap) tool to hold the spoke, it's basically a piece of plastic with slots cut into it, or make your own with a piece of wood. Or use a small adjustable wrench.

CramCycle

D!armu!d wrote: »

The wheels are mavic aksiums and about a year old. The whole spoke & nipple are just twisting freely & not catching when I try to tighten. Sounds like it might need to be fixed in place again. Any idea what the glue is called?

Cheers

Have you tried with the tyre off to make sure the nipple is down far enough?

If they are not catching then that stuff won't do anything, its something the LBS used to put on the threads (like plumbers tape only liquid) to stop them unscrewing if they had a tendency to do so.

I imagine then that either the nipples or the spokes have been stripped, in which case you will have to replace them, from a LBS about 15euro in labour + price per spoke (depending on the LBS), CSS done it for a guy in my class for this price. They asked for 30euro but when he went into collect, they said it was only 15euro the 30 is just a base price they give, and they call you if it goes over apparently.