Pushed or Pulled Thoughts on this

Zambia

I stumbled across this thread in AH.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056050129

It's on emigration from Ireland and a few posters are pretty dirty on people who take their education and go. There is also a huge degree of people saying "This place is sh*te, Im away" however they dont elaborate where.

I was more in favour of coming to live here than leaving Ireland. As in I had more pull factors here than push from Ireland.

What do you reckon are you drawn to Aus/NZ or pushed from Irealand?

Mackman

I was reading that thread myself, interesting debate.

Originally i was drawn to Australia. the OH has family here and the two of us were unemployed at the time. So we said we would travel Oz for a while and do some work. 18 months later and we're still here. While we were over here things just went from bad to worse back home.
So now im being kept away from Ireland. I would much rather be over there. So its a bit of both for me.

Martin Walker

First of ill give you some background on me.
Im a Barber have been for ten years and im from Antrim in Northern Ireland.
The whole economic downturn didnt really effect me in my line of work because hair always grows and in my shop it wasnt expensive for a haircut £6 sterling so i always had a steady income. Some weeks were better than others infairness but thats the way it goes.
I first came to Australia 5 years ago on a 12mth WHV and loved it. The thing that got he hooked was when i stopped in Cairns and worked for three months in a couple of Barbershops. It was awesome. Without doubt the best thing ive ever done in my life.
In August this year i returned to Australia on a defacto spouse visa.

Now. Im not here in Australia because its better. Or because i can get work. Or that i can make more money. Im simply here because the lifestyle in Australia is better suited to the type of person i am. So i personally was pulled to Australia rather than pushed.

In fairness anyone who thinks that a move to Australia is the best option because Ireland and the UK are in economic turmoil are misguided.
Yes things at home are bad. But it is no land of milk and honey over here either. Cost of living is high. So too are wages but it does seem to level its self out. You dont really "make" more money out here than you do at home. Also moving your life and family to the other side of the world is a massive risk. Especially if youve never been before and dont know the Auzzie culture. In my opinion people that move here because they are pushed run the risk of things not working out and then being stuck far from home comforts and possibly in a worse position than the one they were in at home.

jank

Irish people in their nature are bipolar. During the boom we were the big $hits. Now we are nothing more than a European version of Zimbabwe. The truth is in there somewhere.

My opinion, well Ireland at its current form is finished. The old way of doing things is over and a new Republic and Constitution will and should be drawn up. This will come apparent in the next few years once the EU/IMF come in and bail us out. 19th century quangos and pot hole politics simply wont do in the 21st century.

On why I came to OZ/NZ well always wanted to go to NZ and I haven't been disappointed. This was meant to be a big round the world trip but with the GFC on top of myself getting a pretty good job well I'll stick it out here for a couple of years first to see what happens. Don't think I could ever see myself in OZ for the rest of my life but could see myself in NZ tomorrow. Maybe I just need to move around OZ a bit. So just going to see how it pans out here in this side of the world and see what Ireland is like when the flames are out in a couple of years.

If I see that there is a genuine attempt to change things at home I would go back no bother but if they just try and rebuild the country using the same $hit methods as before I don't think I could go back. Which is a shame....

Life is strange sometimes, you don't know where it brings you.

Xavi6

I was born here but moved to Ireland as a baby so the curiosity to come back was always there. I just wanted to sample the lifestyle etc, but the mother convinced me to go through college first.

I left Ireland in January 07 just before the recession kicked in so at that stage it wasn't an issue for me. Indeed I turned down a pretty sweet job to come out here.

I was only going to do a year, despite being a citizen, but with the mess over there now I'm prolonging my stay for as long as I feel like.

Basically I was pulled then pushed I guess.

Slunk

It was a bit of both for me really. Hours were cut in my job, my friends had lost there jobs and they had gone over on the WHV and there was only two of us left here so we are heading over in two weeks. Ive also done a fair bit of travelling and really like it so looking forward to it. Plus im just generally pissed off here with the amount of scumbags ruining it for others and getting little or no punishment, the country is basically ****ed for the next few years.

It wasnt a big dream I had for ages to go, just came up one day, why dont we follow the others over so we booked it, but ever since we decided to go im seeing more and more reasons why it was a good idea and now I cant wait to get out of here.

Mahatma coat

As A Kid I always knew I'd be emigrating someplace, I left Ireland in 2002 which inhindsight was probably the height of the Boom, but from an Early age I always tossed up the idea of Continenta lEurope, America or Australia, Australia was always the one that rang truest to my Outlook on life, I have not been dissapointed, I'm Goin home in a BOX

mandrake04

Heres my Story.

I came on a WHV at the age of 28 with the idea of trying to stay for a few years, I had lived in England for a while and when I came back to my home town the place was full of foreigners and it just didn't feel like home anymore. I thought Australia would be a good spot for a bit of excitement and knew that a year was not enough so looked at the DIMA website and decided that sponsorship was more than doable in my situation.

I left on my own 15th Oct 2004 and was traveling around Asia for 3 months, was aiming at landing in Sydney on 27th Jan in time for NYE and started looking on the net for jobs around December and applied for about 50 jobs that I knew I was capable of doing. Heard nothing but got fed up with Asia an changed my flight to Sydney to 24th Dec. Met a couple of decent lads in the Mercantile on Xmas eve and they invited me to their place for Xmas dinner over in Coogee, there were about 22 there from all over Ireland but mostly from Tyrone and Kerry. One of the guys was moving out of their house in Randwick and heading to Perth after NYE, I was able to take over his room and so I was still looking for a job through January which is not the best time of year. Got to the end of January and an ideal job cropped up in my industry and it was with a competitor company than i was working with in London. So I applied and got the expected phone call a few days later and I explained about the WHV etc.. this put the manager off a bit but I mentioned about the Sponsorship and he said come in for a chat anyway.

Went to the interview and met the Technical services Manager and he liked my CV & references, he wasn't sure about the then 3 month WHV rule but I had printed out the info for the 457 sponsorship and give it to him (he never heard of sponsoring before) he said he would talk it over with the HR manager when he came back from holiday.

I thought it was game over but I was only on week 5 and this was my first interview in 4 years so I wasn't too worried I still had 11 months left on my visa. Got a phone call a day or so later the Technical Manager spoke to the HR manager who had told him that all the Japanese Directors and managers working in the company were sponsored and it wasn't a problem but they wanted to give me a 6 month trial provided I could get a NSW drivers licence. This was a bit of a problem I could only work for 3 months but I decided to wing it anyway.

Started the job at start of February and worked for about 4 months and made a good impression, the company decided to end my probation period early and I got a pay rise. I mentioned that it was time to get the finger out with sponsorship so they got KPMG to do it on their behalf and they paid for it. That took about 6 weeks and I had got granted a 4 year 457 visa, I knew the day I got 457 I should have applied for PR because I knew then I wasn't going home. Anyway after a few years I started about thinking of getting the PR sorted, with all the rule changes I decided ENS was my best bet since its Priority 1. Spoke with my boss and he didn't want to lose me so they got KPMG on the case and they paid for everything again. Sort of glad I didn't go the independent route as I had originally planned or I would have had to pay that for the application myself.

All in all I am pretty appreciative of my situation, I had plenty of friends who were dying to get sponsored and didn't. I reckon I was one of the lucky ones and I definitely wouldn't say finding a sponsor is easy at all, I have made too many farewell trips to the Airport to say its just easy.

I know my Parents & brother miss me but to be honest they told me that at the moment Australia is the best place for me, I would have probably been struggling with work at home. I get paid more here than I did back home and if I had to work at the same level as I do now I would have to go back to working in London and treated like a 2nd class citizen because I was a Paddy.

Really Australia has provided me with plenty of opportunities, I just bought my own house here but I still have a property and a few acres back in Ireland. Basically got my Citizenship acceptance letter the other day and just have to do my oath and thats me.

I would like to go back and live in Ireland at some stage but I reckon that it will never be what it was.

Mahatma coat

Yeah, aside from KPMG thats the story for a lot of us here, If you asked my Boss why he sponsored me all them years ago, he probably couldnt explain, but he'd say its down to my unique skillset and Irish outlook on the situathaitoun:) but mostly cos I'm the only one who can make the Coffee Machine work Propper :D:D

jank

A common trend seems to be catching a break and to spot an oppertunity when it arrises. I caught two huge breaks but grabbed them with both hands and feet. Now I am sponsored in OZ with an ENS over a year away while having NZ PR in the bag in case I get fired/layed off in the meantime. I like to hedge my bets!

Zambia

Yeah So far I am the only skilled PR from Ireland I can see. Most appear to be

WHV - > 457 - > 176

But the WHV does appears in mine further back

Doc

Well my story is that once I finished my leaving cert I wanted to study Architecture but at the time the points requirements and demand for places in architecture was ridicules there was only two places you could study it in Ireland so I decided that I would go to England where there was much more choice and my leaving cert was worth more. After getting the first part of my degree I returned to Ireland and worked for a year living in my family home. After that I returned to study for another 2 years in London.

Once Id finished my degree in London I worked in England for 3 years, the last 2 of which I spent working for a property development and rental company in London who would punches houses refurbish and enlarge them if possible and rent the rooms of the houses out to young professionals. My job involved the redesign of the properties to maximize the space for the rental market while adding as much value to the house as possible.

As the housing bubble started to burst I knew that my company was going to be in severe trouble as the whole model for the business was that the value of the houses would go up. I had always wanted to go traveling / backpacking but had always put it off because I didn’t have anyone to go with or I had to finish my degree or a million other inconsequential reasons now that I think about it, so I started saving to do this. When the axe eventually fell on the company I had my money saved I went home for Christmas and new years booked a one way ticket to Bangkok and set of to see a bit of the world. I traveled around SE Asia for about 4 ½ months and during that time was in contact with my old flatmate from London who was from Melbourne she said I should come over and see her in Australia. I decided it would be a good place for me to earn more money to keep traveling so I sorted my WHV and got a really cheap flight from KL to Melbourne despite not meeting the minimum requirements for the amount of cash I needed to enter the country.

I slept on my old flatmates floor for 3 weeks until I found my own place but was struggling to find a job. Eventually I got so low on finds I had to make a choice between buying a flight home or risking it all and using the money to stay a bit longer. I couldn’t decide what to do so I asked a magic 8 ball “If I stall will it work out well for me?” I was prepared to go with whatever it said. The little triangle thing came to the top saying “A definite yes!” so I didn’t buy my ticket home and stayed. The next day a company rang me asking me to come in for an interview (The first interview I had been offered). After my interview they offered me a week’s trial. After the weeks trial they not only offered me the job but said that they had two registered company names one for the residential side of their business and the other for the commercial side and that after the 6 months restriction on my visa they would swap me over to the other one. I have now become the first person the company has sponsored.

I don’t know how long I will stay in Australia my job isn’t exactly what I really want to be doing but it pays okay they sponsored me and it allows me a good lifestyle here. I know back home there is little or no work in my field so I don’t think it would be wise for me to return there soon as both my parents point out every time I talk to them.

So to sum up I guess you could say I was pushed out but also that Australia has kind of pulled me in too as I originally thought I would just earn enough to keep going but when I did I decided to stay. It’s kind of grabbed a hold of me but I think if Ireland sorts itself out I would be happy enough to go home but who knows what will have happened by the time that comes around?

jank

Got to love those magic 8 balls!

jank

Can we keep this thread on topic please? Its a good one and I dont want to see it derailed

Doc

jank wrote: »

Got to love those magic 8 balls!

I love that 8 ball!

I organized a pub crawl using that 8 ball for all our dissensions.

"Should we go into this pub", "Yes", "should we order pints?", "No", "Should we order shots?", "A definite yes!".

That was a good night!

Zambia

I agree with jank , dont worry 43 when i get to a pc i will move it to a place and we will answer it there.

Traq

I'd have to say I was definitely pulled here rather than pushed. I work in IT and had a pretty cushy number back home. I left Ireland in mid 2007, after getting a career break from work, with the view to travelling around Asia/Australia and NZ for a while and then heading back home to resume work.

I spent about three months travelling around SE. Asia and then spent another few months just lazing about surfing in Australia when I first got here, and had planned on just sorting out a small contract job in Melbourne to tide me over for the next bit of my travels. When I got to Melbourne though I just loved the city, and really took to it very quickly. I ended up in a house share with some really cool people and made a lot of great friends very quickly. The contract job I picked up for a few months then turned into an 18 month contract and I got sponsorship on the back of that, and then the contract job turned into a permanent position so I've definitely put down roots here for the time being.

I know the IT industry is ok at home, so there's not the fear of having absolutely nothing if I go home, but I'm very happy with my life in Melbourne at the moment, it's a great city, I have a great bunch of friends and a pretty active lifestyle here so all in all I'm pretty content!

TheUsual

:rolleyes:
Jesus lads, you would swear a nuke went off in Ireland while you were away.
Yes, posh restrauants and over-priced rip-off pubs and coffee shops are failing. As they should. It was a dead end business even in the good times.
But you know what, people are still buying mobiles phones, laptops and food, and yes shoes and cars. Maybe not houses but that's healthy.

I hate to say but we are all not dead here in Ireland. Yes, salaries are down a bit and show-off type behaviour is gone - good riddance. But life goes on in Ireland and we are having a baby boom at the moment. So the future for the Irish is good.

I'm not working for tourism but please don't write the place off before you visit ... a lot of extreme views from former builders and architects in my opinion who suffered the most in the property crash here.

Zambia

I hear ya, by the way whats the weather like ?

TheUsual

Zambia232 wrote: »

I hear ya, by the way whats the weather like ?

Not too bad for the time year I have to say.
Weak sunshine and not a lot of rain. And the farmers had a perfect summer this year from what I hear so they are happy as feck at the moment !

The leaves are turning brown, yellow and red ... my favourite bit of this time of the year I have to say... okay it gets cold but the countryside is beautiful.

Doc

TheUsual wrote: »

:rolleyes:
... a lot of extreme views from former builders and architects in my opinion who suffered the most in the property crash here.

Thats the point no jobs for us to go back to.

TheUsual

Doc wrote: »

Thats the point no jobs for us to go back to.

Not at the moment but maybe in the future once the surplus housing has been bought.
Stay where the work is - I worked abroad for 7 years myself. Come home when you get the work and it suits your family.

Zambia

TheUsual wrote: »

Weak sunshine and not a lot of rain.

You lost me at weak.

Any back on Topic...;)

TheUsual

Ha ha !
Say hello to the ozone hole !

Jagera

Interesting thread.

I'm Australian, and herself is Irish. We spent 5 years in Dublin, then 2 in Australia, and now are in neutral territory. For her, regarding where to live, the heart says one thing, and the head says another. It's Family vs Lifestyle.

Wherever we live, I miss things about the other place. We have 3 kids, one born here, one in Dublin, one in Australia. We are getting to the point of wanting to buy that long-term nesting house, and we have no idea where that will be.

So the answer to the push-pull question, I'd say for us it's 50/50, and as a result, we're effectively bouncing around until we stop somewhere.

thecandle

Left in Nov '06, more for a change of scenery than anything, so I'd say neither pushed nor pulled. I had options for work at home at the time, but felt like a change for a bit. Still here 4 years later, things have been going pretty well - I probably would've stayed this long regardless of how things are back home

claire*

Great topic.

Leaving a permanent job to go to australia!! dunno whether im mad or stupid or both! its a lifestyle choice for me, am fed up with ireland at the moment. plan to travel for 2-3 years, then come back to ireland.

PhiliousPhogg

New Zealand has the same problem of their best and brightest going abroad for the lure of better money. There is a big difference between wage levels in NZ and Aussie and there's nothing they can do. It's a fact of life that people will go where the money is if they they are willing to leave home.

Personally I don't see any moral issue with leaving Ireland behind in carnage after the government, who I voted against, dressed up a property boom as a housing shortage and ignored repeated warnings about high debt and took the credit for GDP growth and high employment and couldn't organise the health and other public services. Ireland lived as a low-tax high-cost economy and got badly burnt. Fair enough I got away with my free third level education but then guys my age who started working in trades straight after school were raking it in off the government-fuelled construction industry while I was a student and living off my parents. Anyway if Irish government policy is to attract multinationals with low taxes, why should I care about leaving Ireland for better economic conditions.

As I see it any Irish person who has the flexibility to go abroad is pretty much being pushed out of Ireland. If they have family or financial commitments they have to stay, these are the ones I feel sorry for. But from everything I've heard it is very hard to find work in anything construction related, and lots of people with degrees and skills are working in unskilled jobs and shops. And you need some pair of balls to start up a business in Ireland these days.

Of course it's difficult getting started up overseas. I laboured for 4 months and then worked in a lousy office job in Aussie before coming to New Zealand and striking it lucky with the job I have now. I'm a qualified accountant. I have 2 brothers in their 30s in Ireland who have gone back to study because they're out of work. I have one other sibling who is in the public service.

mandrake04

Had to have a laugh at that Happyman42 with his comment about Rats will always abandon a sinking ship

dublin15_2009

I fecked off to Aus this time last year , was just fed up with Ireland. Had been over there a few times before and liked it so thought why not go back..Packed in the job and off I went to Sydney. Got a job pretty much straight away..After 6 months though, Id had enough and I was on the way back to "sunny" Ireland and am still here. Nothing beats home if you ask me..I got work within 2 weeks of coming back , so all is not dead in Ireland just yet

whydoibother?

I went to Australia this time last year. I'd say it was 80% pull and 20% push. I did have a job in Ireland, but not a great one and of no relevance to my career area. Australia seemed really exciting, and I said I may as well have a year of fun. I did have some really great times in Australia. I came back early for a further training course. In hindsight I think I should have used the full year of the visa and come back to do the course later, but I was getting anxious about having no concrete career plan and my instinct to work on that won out. However, I loved Australia and fully intend to go back on a holiday to see some of the places I didn't get to and maybe catch NZ at the same time.:)

Crumble Froo

Great thread. I am probably the last person of all my mates in school who woulda moved. I work in the care sector generally, so always plenty of jobs back home, plus I loved my job, my hours, my clients, my friends, my hobbies, the food, the place, the sports, the language. I loved living in Ireland and everything was beautiful in life.

So I was almost entirely pulled, rather than pushed.

But I couldn't live in Ireland after living here. With the exception of no hurling/camogie, and a few price/money issues, I think just about everything here is generall better, as far as I'm concerned.

jonnybravo

Working in New Zealand at the moment and I would say I was pulled away. Left a secure job in Ireland to go working and travelling. Miss Ireland alot and can't wait to get home once I finish working and travelling. I can see the attraction for some people living away from Ireland but I'd miss my family, friends, dogs, weather (suits my white pasty skin) and the Irish lifestyle and culture in general to live away permanently.

BossArky

My story:

Growing up in Ireland I was always interested in tales of foreign lands. I knew I wanted to travel and see the world once I was finished with school, etc. I just didn't know how this was going to plan out given that I was just a young'un.

Fast forward a decade or so --> I was 18 years old and in 2nd year of Uni when I got an opportunity to do a work placement in Munich. This changed my life, opening up the possibility to travel all around Europe at weekends. Totally broadened my horizons. Often I'd head to Munich's Haupthbahnhof on a Friday evening and browse the train timetables. Over the course of a few months I'd hopped on trains to all sorts of places alone and had a great time, the most memorable being Prage, Zagreb, Amsterdam. I was 18 at the time and galavanting around Europe on my own with a stack of cash from the placement.

When I returned to Ireland I could see that many of friends were still stuck in the loop of Uni drinking and debauchery which I had been engaged in myself prior to heading on the placement. Their lives were still trundling along on the same path - groundhog day. I however had seen that there was something else outside of our usual existance and wanted more. The next few years saw me spend a summer on a J1 student working visa in New York, finishing my degree in Ireland, and doing a Masters in Ireland. The summer between finishing the degree and starting a Masters I got a permanent job in Dublin which I hated with a passion. Within a couple of weeks I knew that there was no way I could spend time sitting around doing this job in Dublin whilst my life passed me by. Jacked in the job and went back to do the Masters.

During the Masters I met a nice foreign girl on Erasmus who 8 years later would become my wife. In the last few months as I worked on my thesis I was frantically looking for a job abroad close to where she was. The aim was Vienna - I ended up in Strasbourg which was close enough-ish. My parents had always drilled stuff into me like "get a good education" to "get a good job", etc. So, here I was at 22 with a good education and a good job in France, when it hit me one day, what am I supposed to do with the rest of my life? Previously there had always been the goal of getting an education, getting a job etc. Now there was a blank canvas.

I beavered away for a year or so enjoying the work and French lifestyle. Gradually I began to think about the future, and as my 18 month contract came to an end the idea of Oz popped into my head. Unfortunately all the work in my line of expertise was in London, so myself and the future wife both moved to London living together. 5 years were spent there: buying a house, getting married, etc. London can wear you down. Travelling 4 hours round trip per day from one side of the city to the other was the nail in London's coffin for me.

Got the opportunity of a transfer to Oz with work and jumped at it. 3 interviews later and 6 months down the line everything was done and dusted. We arrived in Oz (Melbourne) in Jan 2010. The quality of life here in Melbourne is great. I've lived and worked all over the world and can truly say this has been the best from my experience. Sea, hills, weather, lifestyle, facilities, opportunities, etc. We totally feel at home and integrated in less than 10 months. Now we're looking forward to the birth of our first child in May next year, who will be a very mixed up little one with Irish, Czech and Aussie influences

No way I can see myself going back to Ireland to live. There is nothing there for me, with the exception of parents and bro, who like to visit Oz anyway.

So in summary - I'd say I was pushed from London and pulled to Oz. I always wanted to end up in Oz anyway…. so very happy right now

God, that was long-winded.

Doc

BossArky wrote: »

Now we're looking forward to the birth of our first child in May next year, who will be a very mixed up little one with Irish, Czech and Aussie influences
God, that was long-winded.

Congratulations!