New school server, SBS, Discount, Licences.

Nutleyphoto

Hi, A local school asked for my advice re new server. I advised a Dell T310 with 2x Disks Raid 1, and redundant PS. For OS, I think SBS would be good for them.
Can anyone advise if SBS qualifies for an academic discount? I see Discounts mentioned here and there for Desktop O/S's, but not Servers!
Also, regarding CAL's, am I correct in assuming that they need 1x per User, ie Teacher, even though some classrooms have 2x PC's, and there are occasionally 1 or 2 Laptops are used in classroom. And are CAL's a once off payment?
Thanks in advance.

ressem

Yes, you can buy CALS as a one-off payment.

If you're buying licenses for a school, then ignore the academic prices that you see on primarily retail sites.
The NCTE have a deal with microsoft, so you can buy software under microsoft volume license agreements at a much cheaper price.
This includes all MS software.

Similarly Nod and symantec offer special school pricing, so you get the business versions of their software for €4.50 / €5 per computer per year. Much easier to manage than the individual versions.

This means that you get the enterprise version of the software so you can script it such that you only need to use a single license key for all your machines, and all the customisation that you might need can be recorded and trivially automated.

I would recommend against using SBS due to it's artificial limitations. Upgrading it is a bit of a greater hassle that the full versions of Windows Server.
Are you planning on using MS Exchange? I'd suggest Google Apps, free education version instead.
Then just buying Windows Server 2008r2. Check that attendence software like Anseo will work, as last time I checked they didn't support the 64 bit version of windows server.

When installing windows server, you choose whether assigned CALS are in per-device, per-user or per-server mode.
If you only have only one server then per-server mode should be most cost effective. If means that you are buying licenses based on the number of devices that will be connecting at the same time, which allows a little leeway when new devices are added. If you later add another server then you can change these once to per-device licenses.

Microsoft's Education license sellers
http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/education/higher/Account_resellers.html

Make sure to get a quote from a few of them in case Dell give you the corporate Open Volume license prices rather than the Educational ones. Found BSS to be reliable.

hearny

Whats the server being used for.

Linux may be a very good alternative depending on what you want the server for, and who is going to be maintaining it.

Nod would be my choice of AV too - although Im a reseller so I am biased.

rolion

ressem wrote: »

Yes, you can buy CALS as a one-off payment.


I would recommend against using SBS due to it's artificial limitations. Upgrading it is a bit of a greater hassle that the full versions of Windows Server.
Are you planning on using MS Exchange? I'd suggest Google Apps, free education version instead.
Then just buying Windows Server 2008r2. Check that attendence software like Anseo will work, as last time I checked they didn't support the 64 bit version of windows server.

Good info...just for my curiosity...why you against SBS and Exchange !?
Why Google,when some schools have 3-8m / 700k broadband ?
Are there any reasons apart of the technicality of the Google Apps ?

'cause i'm pushing for Microsoft Exchange in most schools myself...

Thanks in advance.

ressem

Reasons I've started to dislike Exchange in this scenario...

Exchange 2010 seems to be a greater administrative burden than 2000/2003 with little gained in return. Message I get is that they've decided to push small businesses towards hosted exchange. It's more for 2 server setups with one exchange server facing the internet or hosted running security software, while another serves the internal clients.

The move to .Net in exchange10 brought plusses and minuses. It seems less stable e.g. small upgrades to .Net on the server can result in hours of downtime to single server setups unless you research and click the right buttons beforehand.
Even the premium license counter on the front page of the management console is faulty.

Requirement for Antivirus / Anti-spam usually with per mailbox licensing / 3rd party backup tools as built in brick level backups are now a mess.

SBS is limited to 75 devices or users. It's very easy for a school to hit this limit. 30 computers for a computer lab, more for tech graphics and the specific requirements the department insists on for this course because of the leaving cert computer based projects.
SBS 2008 is x64 only. This can mean that another small 32 bit server may be required for various programs. IP phones, attendence software with smart cards, old printers drivers without working x64 updates (cough HP cough)

Upgrading/repairing server hardware using SBS is a PITA as only one SBS server can be on the domain, requiring a messier swing migration procedure.

Schools are behind the NCTE controlled firewall, so external access is trickier. Creating a DMZ for exchange adds to the budget.

In comparison, google apps is free for education, external access is not an issue. It took a couple of hours to validate the domain, create the list of users and bulk create accounts.
Management is a non-issue, if I get hit by a bus the school is not going to have to pay one of the 400 a day rip off merchants in the area to prevent it turning into a spam forwarder.

On the setup I've got running, there's close to a thousand named users, updated each year using fairly easy procedures to add each to the appropriate security group with appropriate policies. Plenty of issues of course that money would help, but nothing horrendous.

Using linux for file serving is great, but samba 4 for group policies isn't really stable yet in my and their opinion.

Hope this helps, please feel free to disagree. Here to be educated.

wingnut

We ditched out exchange server for Google Apps.. it was a great decision. Apps is a much better solution for schools than exchange. Its not just the mail its the colaborative tools and calendars etc. Much easier for the kids to use, no headaches of backups etc.

Nutleyphoto

Lots of good info folks. The existing setup is an old server running NT4, and it's high time for both the server and O/S to be updated. Its basically used simply as Logon Authentication, Network access to a few printers, and backup of users data.There is a Broadband link that sits behind the Ncte Firewall etc. Currently, users use internet email only, and that serves the purpose well enough, as long as internet is working ok. A very basic set-up!
Personally, I had a late career change, and while I used to be well up to date with IT several years ago in my previous job, that is no longer the case alas.
So I need a solution that is relatively easy to set up and maintain, with perhaps remote access, and comes in a price that is reasonable for this primary school. There are currently 18 teachers, approx 45 PC's, and I'm very aware that the level of IT usage/dependency is growing to a new high recently.

To that end, I thought SBS might provide the solution. The decision to use/not use Exchange hadn't come up yet. An internal to external mail system would be a nice add-on, but only if it could be implemented easily and cheaply.
So, the trend on this thread seems to suggest Server 2008 SR2, and Google Apps for mail etc would be the way to go! Any clarifications welcome.... Thanks

William Powell

If you have some spare hardware download a copy of what used to be called clarkconnect http://www.clarkconnect.com/ and is now clearOS and take a look at what it can do for you without having to pay for any licences.

CptSternn

ressem wrote: »

Reasons I've started to dislike Exchange in this scenario...

Exchange 2010 seems to be a greater administrative burden than 2000/2003 with little gained in return. Message I get is that they've decided to push small businesses towards hosted exchange. It's more for 2 server setups with one exchange server facing the internet or hosted running security software, while another serves the internal clients.

It's actually more complicated than that. I am an Exchange admin, one of my many roles, and E2007 and E2010 require at least 4 servers in an average environment these days.

You need two for a properly clustered mailbox server, one edge server, and you can throw the hub transport and client access roles on the same server. You will also need a SAN or some other type of network storage to get the cluster going sure.

I love Exchange, but agree with you on the Google Apps idea. Exchange only works in large production environments these days. It works well I might add, but no longer is just the small server app you can stick on a box and off you go.

Did I mention that 90% of all the maintenance and configuration these days is all done via command line? No more winging it with a GUI sure, you need to know the in's and out's of the system before you can even attempt to get it online.

Nutleyphoto

Thanks William. Had a look at their site, and it does look interesting. Will need to read a bit more when I have the chance. Have you implemented it yourself on a network?

William Powell

Nutleyphoto wrote: »

Thanks William. Had a look at their site, and it does look interesting. Will need to read a bit more when I have the chance. Have you implemented it yourself on a network?

tbh I was just messing with the firewall side of it as a cheap solution, works OK for that but thats not a feature you need as you have the schools networks own firewall (although I think it might be able to provide logs of internet access which is always handy). It has email and file sharing which might be the features you want.

I tried the software after seeing a link to it in one of watty's posts.

tbh what you really need is to go into the school and find out exactly what features they need, as if you offer something then most teachers will take it . Make them do some work and explain what they need, and what costs them time (and money) in many cases I've found the most useful thing they can have is one big networked laser printer and that doesn't even require a server.

You can also get most (if not all) the microsoft software as a demo version to try if you want to. Also if you sign and pay up for the Microsoft Action pack you get a yearly subscription for all the main desktop and server products to use in your own office which I find very useful (its got a bit expensive though ).

rolion

Thaks for reply...while i agree on few points !

I preffer using Exchange inside due to full control over and personal experience.I'm pissed off with the CLI rather than GUI in latest versions but is paying off as it does what it says.

Re SBS and Standard server...most of my schools that i've been in have a dedicated network/server/switch (logical and physical) Admin network and another one for the remaining...students ! Even broadband is split / dedicated for Admin and students.So ,no issues reaching the 75 limit on Admin network.

While i haven't used GoogleApps OR Linux in schools,keep in mind that most of the schools can get full working editions of Microsoft,Symantec,CA and other major suppliers for a huge discount compared with business licences.So,using a specific solution justified only by price is silly !

the problem in schools these days is not Server or firewall or email...
-Server - > sits there,basic file & printing sharing
-firewall-> wholly controlled by NCTE
-email -> teachers are using their own personal,not the school one

So,the issue is the content,how can you improve things in there and justify these massive IT harwdare doing something that can be powered by me HTC phone ! ? ?

I've launched in a school 100M SDSL and the usage of online content looks promissing but ...can we do something to bring the content locally and manipulate it !?