Circulating pump gas central heating?

dubsgirl

Hi all

Would appreciate any advice you can give. Our radiators not heating up at all but gas boiler seems to be working fine. Just had a visit from a company (plumbing and heating) and he was very vague... Went upstairs and within a minute asked are they heating now.. The radiators were heating. Then all was quiet for a while and rads were heating no more

He says he reckons the circulating pump needs to be replaced. I did ask how did he get them heating - he said he had forced it down...

Anyhoo he says he would come back tomo with pump and it will cost me 180EUR :eek:
Don't really know what I'm looking for or I would price the pump and installation myself. Any advice?

Should I pay the 180EUR - is this reasonable?

Joey the lips

Yes its reasonable imo but why dont you get a second opinion

Buford T Justice

If thats the price to fit it, then its reasonable. The circulating pump itself is about 70 - 80 squid, depending where you get it & then there's the cost of labour to fit it.

dubsgirl

Thanks Guys for the replies...

Are these the types of pumps that are used?

Single Head Pump
Screw End Connections: 130mm long
Use in domestic central heating and Underfloor heating installations
Available in 5 metre and 6 metre head models
Speed Range: 1000-2200 RPM
Max Working Pressure 10 Bar
Fluid Temperature range - 10°C to +110 °C
Manual 3 speed
Mains Power 230V, 50Hz
Self Protecting Motor against resistance



Product Selection
All prices are ex VAT


Image Part Code Description Price Quantity

PSP055 *Pulsar Surepump SP55 5mtr Head €32.99

PSP065 *Pulsar Surepump SP65 6mtr Head €37.50

dubsgirl

Sorry me again..

Firstly apologies didn't realise there was a plumbing and heating forum probably should have used that

Secondly how do I determine if it defintely is the circulating pump that has the problem?

Thanks very much.

Joey the lips

dubsgirl wrote: »

Thanks Guys for the replies...

Are these the types of pumps that are used?

Single Head Pump
Screw End Connections: 130mm long
Use in domestic central heating and Underfloor heating installations
Available in 5 metre and 6 metre head models
Speed Range: 1000-2200 RPM
Max Working Pressure 10 Bar
Fluid Temperature range - 10°C to +110 °C
Manual 3 speed
Mains Power 230V, 50Hz
Self Protecting Motor against resistance



Product Selection
All prices are ex VAT


Image Part Code Description Price Quantity

PSP055 *Pulsar Surepump SP55 5mtr Head €32.99

PSP065 *Pulsar Surepump SP65 6mtr Head €37.50

chances are he is matchinh the pump with the one in the boiler which is most likely a grundfos.. I i get what you are trying to do... Your equating 37.50 with 180 and saying that he is getting 140 for this...


if thats how you feel get another opinion.... If we answer all your questions and you feel he is ripping you off your just going to get another opinion anyway...

what do you reckon. ?

Buford T Justice

tbh op, its a fair price for a plumber to replace it, and remember its 37.50 + VAT. Its not just as simple as taking out one pump and replacing it with another one, there is a fair bit of work involved, draining the system, bleeding rads etc.....

dubsgirl

Joey - no I am only asking questions here to better inform myself?? Don't understand what the defensivness is all about? If you would rather not answer my questions then thats no problem at all...

As it goes on both replies here I am more than willing to accept that 180EUR must be a fair price for the job - so thanks for your replies..

I was doubtful as to whether the pump was the actual problem as there is a switch on it that says auto - manual and when I switch to manual the heating is working...
If your still helping me out it would be great to know if I can go for a while just having the switch on manual??

Thanks again guys

antiskeptic

dubsgirl wrote: »

I was doubtful as to whether the pump was the actual problem as there is a switch on it that says auto - manual and when I switch to manual the heating is working.

Are your sure it's the pump you're looking at. It could be that you're flicking the switch on a control valve instead. Check out the following link. Scroll down to the 5th photo - it shows a typical circulating pump. Is that what you're fiddling with?

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/first-time-changing-central-heating-pump-advice-please-t16544.html

If indeed a control valve then its probably the motordrive for the valve is broken (thus not working in auto). It's be around the same price as a pump and would be fitted in an hour. 180 quid for two call outs and a 30 odd quid part sounds okay to me.

dubsgirl

Yes its something like that alright - but square and blue...

antiskeptic

dubsgirl wrote: »

Yes its something like that alright - but square and blue...

Hmm. Although not a plumber I've seen a few c/h pumps and they all look like the one I linked to.

I've a feeling it's a control valve (whose function it is is to direct your central heating water where it needs to go to). There are various ways in which these are employed. This valve could be one which, for instance, permits you to heat downstairs whilst leaving upstairs heating off. By manually opening this valve you'll now find that when you heat downstairs upstairs heats too. Or it could be that you're now manually directing c/h hot water to your hot water cylinder and so heating the cylinder every time you turn on your central heating.

If a control valve then it won't do harm to leave it manually open - you'll just have lost the functionality/versatility that the valve provided by being auto-controlled. I'm not aware of any manual/auto function on a water pump - which is not to say it couldn't be the case.

A photo would probably help enlighten folk.

dubsgirl

Brilliant thanks so much.

Joey the lips

dubsgirl wrote: »

Don't understand what the defensivness is all about?

I am not defensive my apologies... However i would caution you that your far better getting a second opinion then to use cheap nasty pumps as a benchmark price thats all...

Joey the lips

dubsgirl wrote: »

Brilliant thanks so much.

Thats not a pump its a zone valve and they cost 40 euro i bough one last week. However if you feel to the back of it you will feel a black button. This is a manual override push it to the side and see if your heating comes on.

They are actually wuite easy to change as well.

antiskeptic

dubsgirl wrote: »

Brilliant thanks so much.

Great. As suspected, it's a valve and not a pump. And it's function is as mentioned above - to direct c/h hot water to the place required.

The unit is made of two bits: the valve itself (which would be the metal piece the c/h pipes fit into) and the blue box (which essentially contains an electric motor to open/close the valve). In all likelyhood, it's just the electric motor which has given up and in all likelyhood it can be removed from the valve so that a replacement motor can be fitted.

You only need to find an identical replacement blue box (there'll be some identifying info somewhere on it). You don't need to touch the plumbing but would merely need someone who has a basic idea about electrics to wire in the new unit.

Or you can find out (via experience) what functionality the valve provides (eg: splitting the upstairs/downstairs into two zones) and decide to do without it. The 180 estimate doesn't sound too unreasonable to me however..

Joey the lips

antiskeptic wrote: »

Great. As suspected, it's a valve and not a pump. And it's function is as mentioned above - to direct c/h hot water to the place required.

The unit is made of two bits: the valve itself (which would be the metal piece the c/h pipes fit into) and the blue box (which essentially contains an electric motor to open/close the valve). In all likelyhood, it's just the electric motor which has given up and in all likelyhood it can be removed from the valve so that a replacement motor can be fitted.

You only need to find an identical replacement motor (there'll be some identifying info somewhere on it). You don't need to touch the plumbing but would merely need someone who has a basic idea about electrics to wire in the new motor.

Or you can find out (via experience) what functionality the valve provides (eg: splitting the upstairs/downstairs into two zones) and decide to do without it. The 180 estimate doesn't sound too unreasonable to me however..

:DIts a sure flow zone valve and its available from pulsardirect.. 99% sure. You can buy them on line.

antiskeptic

Joey the lips wrote: »

:DIts a sure flow zone valve and its available from pulsardirect.. 99% sure. You can buy them on line.

Indeed. It might be that you can buy the actual motor itself. D'ya reckon this is it? A snip at about 20 quid.

http://www.pulsar.ie/plumbing-supplies/ProductDetail.asp?ProductSubId=99&ProductCatId=1088&ProductCode=SZO100

dubsgirl

Woo Hoo! Lads your stars thanks so much I really appreciate your help

No circulation pump actually needed then... so glad I did ask here.

If I can just leave it switched to manual thats great by me as I had no reason to ever go near it anyway

Joey the lips

antiskeptic wrote: »

Indeed. It might be that you can buy the actual motor itself. D'ya reckon this is it? A snip at about 20 quid.

http://www.pulsar.ie/plumbing-supplies/ProductDetail.asp?ProductSubId=99&ProductCatId=1088&ProductCode=SZO100

The dirts never have the motor but yes if they do your laughing...

dubsgirl wrote: »

Woo Hoo! Lads your stars thanks so much I really appreciate your help

No circulation pump actually needed then... so glad I did ask here.

If I can just leave it switched to manual thats great by me as I had no reason to ever go near it anyway

Try the black switch ans see of this confirms your specian... You will need to get it sorted. You cannot leave it this way indefinate...Although next summer would be fine.

antiskeptic

Joey the lips wrote: »

The dirts never have the motor but yes if they do your laughing...

It just struck me. A 'sureflow' valve that doesn't flow..

Try the black switch ans see of this confirms your specian... You will need to get it sorted. You cannot leave it this way indefinate...Although next summer would be fine.

Why can you not leave it permantly open in manual mode?

Buford T Justice

Aha, I see now OP, I thought it was the circulating pump, but it wasn't. Different story so.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Why can you not leave it permantly open in manual mode?

It defeats the purpose of it being there. It could be linked to a roomstat somewhere and working away for a long time without the householder never knowing about it.

Joey the lips

antiskeptic wrote: »

Why can you not leave it permantly open in manual mode?

Because if she has not an immersion she will need to turn on the heating for hot water next summer. If she keeps manally overrideing the valve it will in all probability get stuck. But having said that,,,

I am just advising best practice...

antiskeptic

Fingers McGee wrote: »

It defeats the purpose of it being there. It could be linked to a roomstat somewhere and working away for a long time without the householder never knowing about it.

So let's figure.

The OP had no heating and the plumber "forced it down" and she had heating. Presumably he simply did as she did - opened this valve manually. Then he must have closed it again saying he'd come back with a pump.

So what valve is it? I'm guessing it covers upstairs or downstairs or both together - with a separate valve for the h/w. If so, the OP can leave it open manually until next summer, then switch it off for the summer.

The purpose would be defeated - but only in the sense the OP has to operate it manually a few times a year.

Joey the lips

antiskeptic wrote: »

So let's figure.

The OP had no heating and the plumber "forced it down" and she had heating. Presumably he simply did as she did - opened this valve manually. Then he must have closed it again saying he'd come back with a pump.

So what valve is it? I'm guessing it covers upstairs or downstairs or both together - with a separate valve for the h/w. If so, the OP can leave it open manually until next summer, then switch it off for the summer.

The purpose would be defeated - but only in the sense the OP has to operate it manually a few times a year.

I answered what valve it was but you never really use hot water only past october.

Yes i reckon your right... Its a poor system but one fit until recently and even though i am in plumbing one fit to my house is the same and i cant be bothered changing because it works fine.

Sparkpea

some people give plumbers bad names, the plumbers either known fine rightly whats going on and what hes doing or else hes coming with a motorised valve head and the word pump has got thrown about and confused. however I still think he should have left the valve open and working and replaced it if the customer wanted but in an non urgent sense i.e. get it done sometime before next summer.

dubsgirl

Ah think I celebrated too soon!!

Now have heating fine but no hot water :rolleyes:

Any ideas I should try out?

Thanks again