Should Ireland pull out of the OCED conference in Jerusalem?

subaculture

The Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee (BNC), has called on OECD delegations (of which Ireland is a member) to pull out of the annual Tourism Committee Conference in October in Jerusalem-the first time the conference is held outside Paris (October 20th-22nd)

The Reasons why:
-- http://usacbi.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/open-letter-to-oecd-regarding-decision-to-host-tourism-conference-in-jerusalem/
-- http://www.tourismconcern.org.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=187&cntnt01returnid=72


The UK and Spanish delegations have pulled out..
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/u-k-spain-to-boycott-oecd-tourism-conference-because-it-s-in-jerusalem-1.317212

I for one agree and have contacted Paul Murray-Permanent Representative of Ireland to the OECD (contacts below)
http://www.oecd.org/contactus/0,3364,en_33873108_33873500_1_1_1_1_1,00.html

SC

PeakOutput

nope

dlofnep

Yes, we should.

OhNoYouDidn't

Very much so. A poll would be interesting.

Nodin

subaculture wrote: »

The Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee (BNC), has called on OECD delegations (of which Ireland is a member) to pull out of the annual Tourism Committee Conference in October in Jerusalem-the first time the conference is held outside Paris (October 20th-22nd)

The Reasons why:
-- http://usacbi.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/open-letter-to-oecd-regarding-decision-to-host-tourism-conference-in-jerusalem/
-- http://www.tourismconcern.org.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=187&cntnt01returnid=72


The UK and Spanish delegations have pulled out..
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/u-k-spain-to-boycott-oecd-tourism-conference-because-it-s-in-jerusalem-1.317212

I for one agree and have contacted Paul Murray-Permanent Representative of Ireland to the OECD (contacts below)
http://www.oecd.org/contactus/0,3364,en_33873108_33873500_1_1_1_1_1,00.html

SC

One wonders whose idea it was to go there in the first place.....

FlutterinBantam

subaculture wrote: »

The Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee (BNC), has called on OECD delegations (of which Ireland is a member) to pull out of the annual Tourism Committee Conference in October in Jerusalem-the first time the conference is held outside Paris (October 20th-22nd)

The Reasons why:
-- http://usacbi.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/open-letter-to-oecd-regarding-decision-to-host-tourism-conference-in-jerusalem/
-- http://www.tourismconcern.org.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=187&cntnt01returnid=72


The UK and Spanish delegations have pulled out..
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/u-k-spain-to-boycott-oecd-tourism-conference-because-it-s-in-jerusalem-1.317212

I for one agree and have contacted Paul Murray-Permanent Representative of Ireland to the OECD (contacts below)
http://www.oecd.org/contactus/0,3364,en_33873108_33873500_1_1_1_1_1,00.html

SC

Why would anyone pull out of this conference.?

Surely not intimidation by left wing activists.


Let's grow some balls here people, this is a progressive thing surely?

Einhard

Nope. Would be hypocritical to do so when we have no problems attending events in the likes of China and Russia.

subaculture

What have China and India have to do with the Israeli occupation of E.Jes, West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights.

The OECD is supposed to bring together the governments of countries committed to democracy.

How democratic is the occupation? The Building of settlements? Disfranchisement of Palestinians?

... and most importantly the use of tourism to steal Palestinian land.

see: http://www.eturbonews.com/16853/plans-jerusalem-tourist-park-draw-condemnation-palestinian-autho

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/world/middleeast/22mideast.html

OhNoYouDidn't

Einhard wrote: »

Nope. Would be hypocritical to do so when we have no problems attending events in the likes of China and Russia.

Have China and Russia:

- cloned Irish passports for murder?
- had a diplomat expelled?
- illegally arrested Irish citizens at sea and deported them?

and thats just this year.

But the actual reason the Brits have pulled out is because Jerusalem is disputed land, rather than because its in Isreal. If China had a conference in Tibet or Russia in Grozny, I think it might be the same reaction. And neither China or Russia are in the OECD

OhNoYouDidn't

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why would anyone pull out of this conference.?

Surely not intimidation by left wing activists.


Let's grow some balls here people, this is a progressive thing surely?

How is it progressive?

I would rather my government grew a set of balls and treated Israel like the rouge, apartheit state it has become and refused to be used as a PR stunt by the Israeli's (read the article, its clear that the Israeli govt moved this from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to get other governments to tacitly admit its their capital) who are already sitting in the corner facing the wall.

They cannot carry on like they have done recently and not see diplomatic consequences.

wes

Jerusalem was a poor choice on Israel's part, and they pretty much asked for such a response.

Tourism Minister: U.K., Spain to boycott OECD tourism conference because it's in Jerusalem

--snip--
"I strongly denounce the states that surrendered to threats," he added. "But the conference - with the participation of 21 ministers, deputy ministers and organization heads - will take place as planned in Jerusalem. This will be a declaration of intent and a seal of approval on the fact that we have a state whose recognized capital is Jerusalem."
--snip--

So, yes we should pull out, as we shouldn't recognise there capital as Jerusalem, until such a point as peace talks between Israel and the Palestiniasn have sorted Jerusalem.

BlaasForRafa

subaculture wrote: »

What have China and India have to do with the Israeli occupation of E.Jes, West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights.

You have heard of Tibet and Kashmir right?

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You have heard of Tibet and Kashmir right?

If India wanted to hold a tourism conference in Kashmir, I would have just as much of an issue, actually I would take it personally, as I am of Kashmiri descent, but seeing India isn't actually having such a conference, this is just another case of whataboutery. So has very little relevance. The problem with what Israel is doing is that they are looking for defacto recognition of there claims over Jerusalem.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

If India wanted to hold a tourism conference in Kashmir, I would have just as much of an issue, actually I would take it personally, as I am of Kashmiri descent, but seeing India isn't actually having such a conference, this is just another case of whataboutery. So has very little relevance. The problem with what Israel is doing is that they are looking for defacto recognition of there claims over Jerusalem.

Its not a case of whataboutery, its a case of hypocrisy. Israel is an easy target and thats why theres more threads on it than pretty much every other controversial state combined.

Manic Moran

It seems to me that if the OECD member states had an objection to hosting the gathering in Jerusalem, the correct time to bring up the objections would have been when they were deciding on where to have the thing, not after the decision had been made.

Instead, it seems that these countries will instead not attend the OECD meeting, and thus the co-operation or processes will be delayed an extra year. Not overly sure that's in the countries' best interests.

NTM

OhNoYouDidn't

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its not a case of whataboutery, its a case of hypocrisy. Israel is an easy target and thats why theres more threads on it than pretty much every other controversial state combined.

Ever wondered why they are an 'easy target'?

You are engaging in whataboutery. Its simple. Israel gets a conference. Its planned for Tel Aviv. Its moved to Jerusalem for the reason that Israel would like the photo op of international politicians there to claim that its the recognised capital internationally. Spain and the Brits withdraw refusing to be manipulated like that. Question is should Ireland follow suit.

That is the debate, not whether Isreal is worse than China for human rights.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its not a case of whataboutery, its a case of hypocrisy. Israel is an easy target and thats why theres more threads on it than pretty much every other controversial state combined.

The only way for it to be hypocrisy is if the Indian's were holding a similar conference, in Sringar, Kashmir. Then we would need people on here to be supportive of such a conference. Seeing as 2 of those things haven't happened, you accusation of hypocrisy is just another case of avoiding the issue and not actually engaging with people actual arguements.

So again typical whataboutery, and a complete misunderstanding of what hypocrisy is.

wes

Manic Moran wrote: »

It seems to me that if the OECD member states had an objection to hosting the gathering in Jerusalem, the correct time to bring up the objections would have been when they were deciding on where to have the thing, not after the decision had been made.

Instead, it seems that these countries will instead not attend the OECD meeting, and thus the co-operation or processes will be delayed an extra year. Not overly sure that's in the countries' best interests.

NTM

The Israeli's changed it from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. So the fault is with Israel imho. If you read the following quote from earlier you will clearly see why they changed it:

Tourism Minister: U.K., Spain to boycott OECD tourism conference because it's in Jerusalem

--snip--
"I strongly denounce the states that surrendered to threats," he added. "But the conference - with the participation of 21 ministers, deputy ministers and organization heads - will take place as planned in Jerusalem. This will be a declaration of intent and a seal of approval on the fact that we have a state whose recognized capital is Jerusalem."
--snip--

OhNoYouDidn't

Manic Moran wrote: »

It seems to me that if the OECD member states had an objection to hosting the gathering in Jerusalem, the correct time to bring up the objections would have been when they were deciding on where to have the thing, not after the decision had been made.

Instead, it seems that these countries will instead not attend the OECD meeting, and thus the co-operation or processes will be delayed an extra year. Not overly sure that's in the countries' best interests.

NTM

Conference was arranged for for Tel Aviv and moved to Jerusalem yesterday, for the stated reason of getting nations to 'recognise' Jerusalem, prompting the withdrawl.

BlaasForRafa

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Ever wondered why they are an 'easy target'?

Its obvious that there is a campaign against Israel on this board, otherwise why would absolutely inconsequential threads like this even exist. A conference is moved from one city to another, big deal.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its obvious that there is a campaign against Israel on this board, otherwise why would absolutely inconsequential threads like this even exist. A conference is moved from one city to another, big deal.

A campaign? Who is the organizer then?

Its a big deal, as the city is a part of the ongoing conflict, which the Israeli's know full well, and they moved to make it look like other countries recognise it as there capital. Again, the only people to blame for this is Israel. They brought this on themselves, with there ploy.

OhNoYouDidn't

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its obvious that there is a campaign against Israel on this board, otherwise why would absolutely inconsequential threads like this even exist. A conference is moved from one city to another, big deal.

It is worthy of debate when Britain and Spain pull out of an OECD conference. The fact that Spain withdrew from a tourism conference is huge.

And it clearly is a big enough deal to someone, otherwise why would the Israeli's have bothered....

But you go away and play the poor oppressed Jewish card if you want. The rest of us will argue this one out anyway.

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its obvious that there is a campaign against Israel on this board, otherwise why would absolutely inconsequential threads like this even exist. A conference is moved from one city to another, big deal.

So if a conference was moved from Bejing to Lhasa, you wouldn't see the problem?

Manic Moran

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Conference was arranged for for Tel Aviv and moved to Jerusalem yesterday, for the stated reason of getting nations to 'recognise' Jerusalem, prompting the withdrawl.

Fair enough.

I usually read linked articles, serves me right for not doing so in this case.

NTM

southsiderosie

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its not a case of whataboutery, its a case of hypocrisy. Israel is an easy target and thats why theres more threads on it than pretty much every other controversial state combined.

But Israel is an easy target in part because it, unlike China or Russia, is (supposed to be) a democracy, and should therefore be held to a much higher standard when it comes to protection of human rights, deployment state security, etc.

CCCP

southsiderosie wrote: »

But Israel is an easy target in part because it, unlike China or Russia, is (supposed to be) a democracy, and should therefore be held to a much higher standard when it comes to protection of human rights, deployment state security, etc.

What century are you living in?? Russia is a democracy, It's a Federal republic like USA. You cannot compare Russia- an ancient and well established country which although a former member of USSR, was still known as the Russian republic, and China one of the most ancient and established country's on Earth with Israel.

Israel clearly have no standards when it comes to human rights and people expect very little from them in these areas.

southsiderosie

CCCP wrote: »

What century are you living in?? Russia is a democracy, It's a Federal republic like USA. You cannot compare Russia- an ancient and well established country which although a former member of USSR, was still known as the Russian republic, and China one of the most ancient and established country's on Earth with Israel.

Israel clearly have no standards when it comes to human rights and people expect very little from them in these areas.

Someone must of been filling your head with nonsense.

Wow, are you writing from the Kremlin? A country's lengthy existence as a nation-state and its structure as a centralized or federal state have nothing to do with its level of democracy.

I'm living in the 21st Century where Russia doesn't claim to be a beacon of democracy the way the US or Israel do, and are therefore not held to the same standards when it comes to invading neighbors, engaging in human rights violations, etc. In addition, for all of their faults, both the US and Israel have a raucous free press whereas being an investigative journalist in Russia is a dangerous enterprise. Returning solely to the question of Israel, try as they may, the Israeli government cannot ban opposition parties ahead of elections (unlike the Russian government). Democracy is about more than casting a ballot on election day.

CCCP

Removed post - off topic

Scofflaw

CCCP, what does this have to do with the conference?

moderately,
Scofflaw

CCCP

Scofflaw wrote: »

CCCP, what does this have to do with the conference?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Sorry got carried away.

Should Ireland pull out , I think Yes.

subaculture

OECD chief warns: Jerusalem conference could be canceled
World economic body chief criticizes tourism minister for claiming that holding a conference in Jerusalem demonstrates its support for Israel's sovereignty there.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/oecd-chief-warns-jerusalem-conference-could-be-canceled-1.318024

---

If you feel that the Irish delegation should follow Spain and the UK and boycott this meaning, please send an email / fax to Mr. Paul Murray, Ireland's OCED delegate

irish.del@dfa.ie
Telephone : +33 (0)1 44 17 67 13
Fax: +33 (0)1 44 17 67 70

Jeboa Safari

No, we shouldn't pull out. Even Turkey has announced it is going. I assume its in our interest to attend this conference, pulling out won't do us any good.

subaculture

Turkey is at the moment reconsidering, but whether they attend or not is a decision for them alone. I am interested only in Ireland's participation and whether such a decision supports Israel's territorial claim to occupied land (as the Israeli Tourism Minister believes). I am also interested why Ireland would even consider attending after the recent misuse of Irish passports and the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat.

Jeboa Safari

subaculture wrote: »

Turkey is at the moment reconsidering, but whether they attend or not is a decision for them alone. I am interested only in Ireland's participation and whether such a decision supports Israel's territorial claim to occupied land (as the Israeli Tourism Minister believes). I am also interested why Ireland would even consider attending after the recent misuse of Irish passports and the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat.

Maybe because in the long run it could be beneficial to attend the conference? There are several countries who ARE attending, and improving cooperation with them can only benefit us.
Britain has also denied it is boycotting the conference for political reason and will attend future conferences held in Jerusalem.

Nodin

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Maybe because in the long run it could be beneficial to attend the conference? There are several countries who ARE attending, and improving cooperation with them can only benefit us.
Britain has also denied it is boycotting the conference for political reason and will attend future conferences held in Jerusalem.

And the morality of the matter be damned, presumably.

Jeboa Safari

Nodin wrote: »

And the morality of the matter be damned, presumably.

The morality of what exactly? It's a conference with several countries on the promotion of green tourism. It's not something that would make the news anyway other than these attempts to politicize it and make it about Palestine. If your going to get in a huff and start boycotting everything you see 'morally wrong' we may aswell cut links with most of the rest of the world.
How does us not sending delegates to this help anyone? Only hurts ourselves, and has no real impact on the area, and probably hardens Israels attitude towards the rest of the world.

Nodin

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

The morality of what exactly? It's a conference with several countries on the promotion of green tourism. It's not something that would make the news anyway other than these attempts to politicize it and make it about Palestine. If your going to get in a huff and start boycotting everything you see 'morally wrong' we may aswell cut links with most of the rest of the world.
How does us not sending delegates to this help anyone? Only hurts ourselves, and has no real impact on the area, and probably hardens Israels attitude towards the rest of the world.

Its a conference being held in a city where half the municipality is illegally occupied. It was politicised by it being switched from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

subaculture

I don't want to be seen to be bumping this thread but:

1. the event takes place in the future (October 20-22nd)
2. Mary Hanafin (minister in charge - tourism) and our OCED representative, Mr. Paul Murray have failed to indicate whether there are going or not.
3. today, Turkey has pulled out:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-turkey-to-boycott-oecd-conference-in-israel-minister-says-1.318899

Anyone have any information as to Ireland's stance?

Nodin

I sent an e-mail to the address supplied a while back, but have received no response.