Child maintenance in Ireland

Gavin1234

Hi,

Good morning

First post, new to this so I'll just explain the situation and take it from here. Mod{s} feel free to let me know if the below is too much advice driven - do not intend it to be. Having read some other discussions around this topic, it seems to be inline with topic forumz.

A relative was seeing this girl {teen} about Ten - Twelve years ago, and this girl claimed to be pregnant. Just dating, not married or living together.

There was an underhand situation going on {girl wanted to get pregnant and had tried with previous men but to no avail. Told guy was taking the pill but obviously lying - this was confirmed by this girls best friend - guy should have been more aware but trust played in the favour of the girl}.

Relative asked for proof and the girl did not want to attend a doctors. To cut a long story short - the guy walked away due to the underhandedness. Ten years or so and no contact from this girl - no woman, obviously.

Question:

Obviously a substantial amount of time has passed:

1. How likely is maintenance payments to take place in the future, if woman gets in touch to ask for payments?

2. Does the guy have a leg to stand on due to the time period without contact?

3. Is the man obliged to give paternity tests after such a prolonged period of time?

4. Would there be back payments due? {We know the minimum and maximum that can be requested before going to high court etc}

Any insight, thoughts or people in similar situations would be greatly appreciated. FLAC is currently under review/ consideration.

Cheers
G

Nevyn

Look your friend is best of getting legal advice.

If she turns up for maintence he should let her go through the courts and demand a paternity test, if it's not his then he has no legal responsibility what so ever.

wolfpawnat

Gavin1234 wrote: »

1. How likely is maintenance payments to take place in the future, if woman gets in touch to ask for payments?

Depends on judge. If she applies, yes she is likely to get it. It is means tested so if your friend only has 196 a week (I am not assuming he is lazy, I am giving the instance that perhaps he lost he job recently, so please do not take offence ), the court won't ask the same of him as they would a doctor!

Gavin1234 wrote: »

2. Does the guy have a leg to stand on due to the time period without contact?

He can ask why she didn't contact sooner, don't think it will stand though.

Gavin1234 wrote: »

3. Is the man obliged to give paternity tests after such a prolonged period of time?

A paternity test can be legally obtained by the courts if one or the other party does not wish to submit to it. That said, your friend is better off submitting, if he is not the father his life is his, if he is, then at least he knows!

Gavin1234 wrote: »

4. Would there be back payments due? {We know the minimum and maximum that can be requested before going to high court etc}

To the best of my knowledge, no. The court can only get maintenance from the date the case takes place. It is not fair for a person to have to try and pay 12 years maintenance back, they would have to be a millionaire to pay that. If she did not ask for it, the father is under no obligation to give it.

My mother was a money hungry €unt and my dad was a spiteful sh!te, so I have seen years of maintenance and access arguments and have on occasion been dragged into the courtroom for them. This is all first hand experience I have given you, but be warned, each judge is different!

metrovelvet

Was this girl a minor when she got pregnant?

Gavin1234

metrovelvet wrote: »

Was this girl a minor when she got pregnant?

Good question, not 100% sure. Nearly sure was 18

Gavin1234

Thaedydal wrote: »

Look your friend is best of getting legal advice.

If she turns up for maintence he should let her go through the courts and demand a paternity test, if it's not his then he has no legal responsibility what so ever.

thanks

Gavin1234

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Depends on judge. If she applies, yes she is likely to get it. It is means tested so if your friend only has 196 a week (I am not assuming he is lazy, I am giving the instance that perhaps he lost he job recently, so please do not take offence ), the court won't ask the same of him as they would a doctor!


He can ask why she didn't contact sooner, don't think it will stand though.



A paternity test can be legally obtained by the courts if one or the other party does not wish to submit to it. That said, your friend is better off submitting, if he is not the father his life is his, if he is, then at least he knows!



To the best of my knowledge, no. The court can only get maintenance from the date the case takes place. It is not fair for a person to have to try and pay 12 years maintenance back, they would have to be a millionaire to pay that. If she did not ask for it, the father is under no obligation to give it.

My mother was a money hungry €unt and my dad was a spiteful sh!te, so I have seen years of maintenance and access arguments and have on occasion been dragged into the courtroom for them. This is all first hand experience I have given you, but be warned, each judge is different!

thanks and yeah he has a good job middle to high income level

wolfpawnat

Gavin1234 wrote: »

thanks and yeah he has a good job middle to high income level

Well if that is the case, I am sure ye have researched yourselves, that his mortgage, car repayments, loans, bills, etc will be put against his income to calculate his "spare" money and the judge will make a calculation from there. If she wants more that 150 a week she will have to go to the High Court. So unless she is that money hungry, the MAX he will have to pay is that.

Hope this is of help

Nevyn

metrovelvet what on earth has that got to do with it?

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

metrovelvet what on earth has that got to do with it?

Legal vulnerabilities if the friend of OP was not a minor.

Gavin1234

metrovelvet wrote: »

Legal vulnerabilities if the friend of OP was not a minor.

this person could have been 17 just a few months short of 18. The legal age of consent in Ireland is 17 either way - correct me if I'm wrong

metrovelvet

Look I really dont know. Check with a lawyer. I was just asking because you said 'teen' and its something to be alerted to.

Dublin_Gunner

He has no obligation to pay any back-maintenance if there was no maintenance order already in place.

Been through this myself.

Seek legal advice if he wishes, but at this stage, its probably not necessary.

I'm assuming your post is based entirely on conjecture, and the woman in question hasn't actually been in contact?

1. If she goes and gets an order for maintenance, after paternity has been proved, then yes, he would be legally obliged to pay maintenance.

2. Leg to stand on? With regards to what exactly? Access? Paternity? Maintenance?

3. Obliged, no. However an order can be made where he can be legally made take a paternity test.

4. Answered above.


Tell him to look on the bright side. If she was to come back now, and get a maintenance order etc he only has 8 years of maintenance left to pay (unless the kid goes to college).

He has no obligation to pay the previous 10 years maintenance.

Gavin1234

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

He has no obligation to pay any back-maintenance if there was no maintenance order already in place. No order in place to pay any maintenance

Been through this myself. Hope all worked out fine

Seek legal advice if he wishes, but at this stage, its probably not necessary.

I'm assuming your post is based entirely on conjecture, and the woman in question hasn't actually been in contact? No just sent an email to say hello and asked a question about where he is living

1. If she goes and gets an order for maintenance, after paternity has been proved, then yes, he would be legally obliged to pay maintenance. Fair enough

2. Leg to stand on? With regards to what exactly? Access? Paternity? Maintenance? Just a general question regarding the conduct of the other body. Not such a big issue.

3. Obliged, no. However an order can be made where he can be legally made take a paternity test. Understandable

4. Answered above.


Tell him to look on the bright side. If she was to come back now, and get a maintenance order etc he only has 8 years of maintenance left to pay (unless the kid goes to college). Good to know but I suppose each Judge might react differently

He has no obligation to pay the previous 10 years maintenance.

cheers

Gavin1234

metrovelvet wrote: »

Look I really dont know. Check with a lawyer. I was just asking because you said 'teen' and its something to be alerted to.

no problem, understand

analbeads

Gavin1234 wrote: »

A relative was seeing this girl {teen} about Ten - Twelve years ago, and this girl claimed to be pregnant.

Relative asked for proof and the girl did not want to attend a doctors. To cut a long story short - the guy walked away due to the underhandedness.


1. How likely is maintenance payments to take place in the future, if woman gets in touch to ask for payments?

2. Does the guy have a leg to stand on due to the time period without contact?

G

so she told him she was pregnant and he walked away because he didnt believe her? its being 10-12 years and he has never wondered if he has a child out there somewhere or never made any attempt to find out?, how would he possibly think he could get out of paying maintenance because he didnt give a toss about finding out if this woman was telling the truth!! he was the one who walked away for god sakes!!

oh the poor fella might have to support his own child....(if there is a child.) he seems like a complete scumbag

when i told my 'now ex' i was pregnant and he didnt believe me and had gotten his family involved wanting me to go to a doctor to be exaimned just to prove i was indeed pregnant i wouldnt have gone either!

Gavin1234

analbeads wrote: »

so she told him she was pregnant and he walked away because he didnt believe her? its being 10-12 years and he has never wondered if he has a child out there somewhere or never made any attempt to find out?, how would he possibly think he could get out of paying maintenance because he didnt give a toss about finding out if this woman was telling the truth!! he was the one who walked away for god sakes!!

oh the poor fella might have to support his own child....(if there is a child.) he seems like a complete scumbag

when i told my 'now ex' i was pregnant and he didnt believe me and had gotten his family involved wanting me to go to a doctor to be exaimned just to prove i was indeed pregnant i wouldnt have gone either!

thanks for your input

caseyann

analbeads wrote: »

so she told him she was pregnant and he walked away because he didnt believe her? its being 10-12 years and he has never wondered if he has a child out there somewhere or never made any attempt to find out?, how would he possibly think he could get out of paying maintenance because he didnt give a toss about finding out if this woman was telling the truth!! he was the one who walked away for god sakes!!

oh the poor fella might have to support his own child....(if there is a child.) he seems like a complete scumbag

when i told my 'now ex' i was pregnant and he didnt believe me and had gotten his family involved wanting me to go to a doctor to be exaimned just to prove i was indeed pregnant i wouldnt have gone either!

Complete agree with you ,he took easy way out and convenient way for him,no he has to pay and so he should.

catspajamas

This is a sad story all round -
I think the guy should get paternity test - whatever went on between the two of them when they were both so young no longer really matters
there is a child & your friend might be a Dad
Courts generally will assess how much should be paid based on ability to pay
and yes money is a factor here but bigger factor is figuring out is he a Dad - a friend of mine aged in her late teens just recently met her Dad - similar story - fella & girl had an unpleasant split when she got pregnant - there are always 2 sides
my mate chase up her dad - her mum was brill decided to go along with whatever she wanted - her dad was also brill & they get along great now - there was no money even discussed

so just sayin consider more than money here ?

StillWaters

If the mother has tentatively got in touch after ten years, it is much more likely it is because the child is asking about her father, than she is a money hungry trickster.

Looks like she long ago realised your relative was not going to step uproar the plate, financially or emotionally for the child.

It's not too late to build a relationship now.

Dublin_Gunner

catspajamas wrote: »

so just sayin consider more than money here ?

The problem with a lot of Irish single mothers is - that's ALL they consider.

StillWaters wrote: »

It's not too late to build a relationship now.

It's NEVER too late.

analbeads

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

The problem with a lot of Irish single mothers is - that's ALL they consider.

:mad:
the problem with alot of irish seperated fathers is that they dont want to support their children or assume the mother will pay for everything!!

Klingon Hamlet

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

The problem with a lot of Irish single mothers is - that's ALL they consider.



It's NEVER too late.

analbeads wrote: »

:mad:
the problem with alot of irish seperated fathers is that they dont want to support their children or assume the mother will pay for everything!!

I'm insulted you would brand mothers as moneygrabbers and dads as deadbeats. Your personal experiences do not reflect everyone's reality. Stereotyping is narrowmindedness disguised as informed opinion. Your ignorance gets the world nowhere fast.

Dublin_Gunner

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I'm insulted you would brand mothers as moneygrabbers and dads as deadbeats. Your personal experiences do not reflect everyone's reality. Stereotyping is narrowmindedness disguised as informed opinion. Your ignorance gets the world nowhere fast.

I said 'a lot' not all. And yes, its true. I know a few myself, as well as a few that are not.

You're blatant ignorance of even being able to read a simple sentence doesn't help your self elevation to the moral high ground.

Noone was stereotyping - the truth can't be hidden.

Plenty of single parents are reasonable, but a lot, are not.

And why are you insulted? Was either post directed at you? Are you a money grabbing single parent?

Nevyn

Attack the post and not the poster, personal comments and personal abuse is not permitted in this forum.

Dublin_Gunner

Thaedydal wrote: »

Attack the post and not the poster, personal comments and personal abuse is not permitted in this forum.

Well then you should make that point to the above poster, instead of thanking their post.

Hardly the expected response from a supposedly impartial mod, now is it?

analbeads

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I'm insulted you would brand mothers as moneygrabbers and dads as deadbeats. Your personal experiences do not reflect everyone's reality. Stereotyping is narrowmindedness disguised as informed opinion. Your ignorance gets the world nowhere fast.

fair point but when i see posts like dublin gunners i get so mad.
what i ment was that many mothers are forced to bring their ex to court because there children are not being supported and they are the ones that are loosing out. its not the mother purely looking for as much as she can get!!
if a child is being fairly supported by BOTH parents equaly then their would be no reason for court ordered maintenance, but this sadly isnt a reality:(

Dublin_Gunner

analbeads wrote: »

fair point but when i see posts like dublin gunners i get so mad.
what i ment was that many mothers are forced to bring their ex to court because there children are not being supported and they are the ones that are loosing out. its not the mother purely looking for as much as she can get!!
if a child is being fairly supported by BOTH parents equaly then their would be no reason for court ordered maintenance, but this sadly isnt a reality:(

It works both ways.

I said a LOT not ALL. People should really read posts before jumping to conclusions.

metrovelvet

People here tend to jump in with the "I SAID A LOT, NOT ALL". Well is it a lot? Or is it a small few who jump out and stick? Either way, it's probably wiser not to assess everything on the scum who ruin it for everyone. It tends to drag everyone down.

Dublin_Gunner

metrovelvet wrote: »

People here tend to jump in with the "I SAID A LOT, NOT ALL". Well is it a lot? Or is it a small few who jump out and stick? Either way, it's probably wiser not to assess everything on the scum who ruin it for everyone. It tends to drag everyone down.

But thats what I said. Its a great thing about text - you can mean it literally. If I meant 'most' or 'all' or 'all I've ever witnessed' etc I would have said that.

Nevyn

Dublin_Gunner I suggest you take the time to re read the charter of this forum.

charter wrote:

Arguing with a moderator
- Do not argue with a moderator in a thread after they have given a warning or a ban etc. If you have an issue with a moderator's action then PM the mod in question. They will discuss it with you. You can then, if unsatisfied with the PM route, take things to the Dispute Resolution Forum.

Klingon Hamlet

How many is "a lot".

I'm a dad by the way so I don't get a penny. I work and pay child maintenance.

I've been through the courts system, I know it inside and out. I know the benefit system inside and out. I'm very much aware that people of a certain mindset will use their position as parent to their advantage.

However claiming "a lot" of mums are moneygrabbers and "a lot" of dads are deadbeat simply perpetuates the myth that in general, single parents are substandard and deserve their derision by society. It simply feeds the general ignorance shown towards single parents in genune need of support, assistance and representation in society.

metrovelvet

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But thats what I said. Its a great thing about text - you can mean it literally. If I meant 'most' or 'all' or 'all I've ever witnessed' etc I would have said that.

How many is A LOT? If you want to get literal. I'd like a percentage.

Dublin_Gunner

metrovelvet wrote: »

How many is A LOT? If you want to get literal. I'd like a percentage.

To work out a percentage, I'd have to meet them all. Hardly possible.

However, I've enough experience in the area to know that a 'lot' should be a fairly representative claim to make.

There is one friend of mine who I would consider to be a 'money grabber' so its not like I'm basing this merely from my own personal experiences.

Sure, a lot of dads are useless - I know one of those too.

My opinion is just as valid as both of yours - however I'm not the one that will get the thanked posts for being PC.

analbeads

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

It works both ways.

I said a LOT not ALL. People should really read posts before jumping to conclusions.

ya i reacted to what was said but i explained what i ment by it.
i never mentioned "ALL" either so maybe take your own advise and read before you post aswell

Dublin_Gunner

analbeads wrote: »

ya i reacted to what was said but i explained what i ment by it.
i never mentioned "ALL" either so maybe take your own advise and read before you post aswell

I didn't criticise your post for anything like that

analbeads

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I'm a dad by the way so I don't get a penny. I work and pay child maintenance.
QUOTE]

your child is lucky and i wish all men would do the same. children deserve to be supported and cared for by both parents.

metrovelvet

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

To work out a percentage, I'd have to meet them all. Hardly possible.

However, I've enough experience in the area to know that a 'lot' should be a fairly representative claim to make.

There is one friend of mine who I would consider to be a 'money grabber' so its not like I'm basing this merely from my own personal experiences.

Sure, a lot of dads are useless - I know one of those too.

My opinion is just as valid as both of yours - however I'm not the one that will get the thanked posts for being PC.

You know one of each. Great.

But you know what, without numbers its just a myth. And a dangerous myth at that, because the more people believe it is common, the more it becomes acceptable.

I am parenting completely alone. Ok. Now this seems to be 'ah sure lots of kids are raised without dads' and people think this is ok. Where I come from it is stringently stigmatised, it is the low, the gutter who does this. In Ireland, because of the "ALOT OF PEOPLE"do x,y, or z, it becomes more palaatable, and it shouldnt be.

ANd its the same with the mothers and custody, although its not as much of an issue because of enforcement and also because it's just not acceptable.

analbeads

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I didn't criticise your post for anything like that

you posted the below comment. can you explain what you ment?

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

It works both ways.

I said a LOT not ALL. People should really read posts before jumping to conclusions.

Nevyn

Can we please discuss the topic and not pick at posts, please play the ball and not the player, if anyone has an issue with any post then please report it.

wolfpawnat

StillWaters wrote: »

It's not too late to build a relationship now.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

It's NEVER too late.

With regards these posts, I do believe the child may be the one deciding how much of a relationship they want with their father. As they are at an age where they have their own opinion and may feel that they do not want the father in their lives! It is all down to the child! You cannot force them into access that is not fair on them.

And since the father is not in touch with the child at present, the child may have a father figure in the mothers partner/husband and may not want their biological father at all.

Just my two cents

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

With regards these posts, I do believe the child may be the one deciding how much of a relationship they want with their father. As they are at an age where they have their own opinion and may feel that they do not want the father in their lives! It is all down to the child! You cannot force them into access that is not fair on them.

And since the father is not in touch with the child at present, the child may have a father figure in the mothers partner/husband and may not want their biological father at all.

Just my two cents

You see that's the thing. If they have missed the bonding age then there becomes a danger that the child can make preferences. The bond guarantees that its not about chemistry or preference, a bond is there whether or not you 'like your parent."

Dublin_Gunner

wolfpawnat wrote: »

With regards these posts, I do believe the child may be the one deciding how much of a relationship they want with their father. As they are at an age where they have their own opinion and may feel that they do not want the father in their lives! It is all down to the child! You cannot force them into access that is not fair on them.

And since the father is not in touch with the child at present, the child may have a father figure in the mothers partner/husband and may not want their biological father at all.

Just my two cents

I think the point being made is that its never too late to at least attempt to build that relationship - whether the child takes to the parent or not is anyone's guess, and as you correctly stated, the child may not want a relationship at that stage, and may even resent the father.

But, its never too late to try.

wolfpawnat

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But, its never too late to try.

Oh god yes, try, just don't expect the child to run to you with open arms!

Klingon Hamlet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Oh god yes, try, just don't expect the child to run to you with open arms!

Neither should the fear of them rejecting you cause you even one moment's hesitation. I know there's no guarantee but better to try be there in your child's life, than back off afraid that it won't work out.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Neither should the fear of them rejecting you cause you even one moment's hesitation. I know there's no guarantee but better to try be there in your child's life, than back off afraid that it won't work out.

Of course. But sometimes courtship and persistence is necessary. The child might not trust you knowing that you already ran away once and reject you initially until you prove yourself.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

Of course. But sometimes courtship and persistence is necessary. The child might not trust you knowing that you already ran away once and reject you initially until you prove yourself.

Agreed. Children of any age can "make strange". Doesn't mean you should give up.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Agreed. Children of any age can "make strange". Doesn't mean you should give up.

Giving up just proves you are going to run away again. That is my point. YOu have to court them so they can trust you, especially if you had abandoned them, then its going to take some hard work and a few knocks.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

Giving up just proves you are going to run away again. That is my point. YOu have to court them so they can trust you, especially if you had abandoned them, then its going to take some hard work and a few knocks.

It can help if the other parent offers some encouragement to the child.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

It can help if the other parent offers some encouragement to the child.

It is essential. So you need to earn their trust too. Not always easy.

K-9

Gavin1234 wrote: »

Hi,

Good morning

First post, new to this so I'll just explain the situation and take it from here. Mod{s} feel free to let me know if the below is too much advice driven - do not intend it to be. Having read some other discussions around this topic, it seems to be inline with topic forumz.

A relative was seeing this girl {teen} about Ten - Twelve years ago, and this girl claimed to be pregnant. Just dating, not married or living together.

There was an underhand situation going on {girl wanted to get pregnant and had tried with previous men but to no avail. Told guy was taking the pill but obviously lying - this was confirmed by this girls best friend - guy should have been more aware but trust played in the favour of the girl}.

Relative asked for proof and the girl did not want to attend a doctors. To cut a long story short - the guy walked away due to the underhandedness. Ten years or so and no contact from this girl - no woman, obviously.


G

I'll leave the other stuff as it has been well answered, but maybe he should take the initiative and find out if the child is his? He has understandable doubts (based on hearsay) but is he worried that he may have a child out there that he knows nothing about?

Sorry, it's just I get the impression that money is more the worry. (Just going on your OP, which is just asking simple, understandable questions)