Left in the dark by Bus Éireann

foggy_lad

I sometimes get the 8pm bus from Dublin to waterford/Carlow and recently one particular driver has a habit of not turning on any internal lighting at all except for the tiny blue seat lights. We are forced to board the bus in darkness and hope we don't sit on someone's discarded chewing gum or worse!

This driver has been asked before on a few occasions to turn to turn on the individual reading lights at least and on those occasions did so very reluctantly as he had to be asked more than once. I am on the bus tonight with the same driver and even the screen showing the road ahead has been blacked out by a brown paper bag being placed over it.

From travelling on a lot of coaches of many companies it is usual to have the tiny seat lights on as well as the reading lights and also some very soft lighting along the roofline/parcel shelf and at floor level.

What is bus eireann policy on lights on board coaches does anyone know?

Propellerhead

2010 Dublin Heuston - Carlow by train, arriving 21.23. Plenty of lighting on that train.

2000 Busarse - Carlow by bus, arriving 21.30. No lights.

Looks like a no-brainer to me.

L1011

I'd contact BE over this. The driver may have serious night vision problems, and in such a case, shouldn't be working night time routes as he's a danger.

My mother has to turn down dashboard lights or use 'dark panel' style options when available or else she can't see out of the car; and I wouldn't let her drive one person at night let alone 50+!

foggy_lad

Propellerhead wrote: »

2010 Dublin Heuston - Carlow by train, arriving 21.23. Plenty of lighting on that train.

2000 Busarse - Carlow by bus, arriving 21.30. No lights.

Looks like a no-brainer to me.

Train involves getting out to heuston getting tickets walking halfway to inchIcore to board a dirty train with out of order toilets that leaves me a mile further away from home than the bus and also personal choice comes into it, I prefer the bus!

Anything else to add seeing how you know me and where I live so well?

foggy_lad

Thanks MYOB, its not a complaint as stah more an observation and bit of an inconvenience when boarding and getting off the bus. But better ask the good people in bus eireann in case what you mentioned is the case.

Propellerhead

foggy_lad wrote: »

Train involves getting out to heuston getting tickets walking halfway to inchIcore to board a dirty train with out of order toilets that leaves me a mile further away from home than the bus and also personal choice comes into it, I prefer the bus!

Anything else to add seeing how you know me and where I live so well?

Yes, you have "Location: Carlow" on each of your posts.

The bus will always be transport of last resort for me. That's my own choice and you are welcome to yours. Anytime I've used the 2010 train it is perfectly clean and goes from Platform 2 and not the groanworthy Platform 1 or even 6-8. I don't think there are any toilets on Bus Eireann buses and the least said about the toilets in Busarse the better.

buzzwell

foggy_lad wrote: »

I sometimes get the 8pm bus from Dublin to waterford/Carlow and recently one particular driver has a habit of not turning on any internal lighting at all except for the tiny blue seat lights. We are forced to board the bus in darkness and hope we don't sit on someone's discarded chewing gum or worse!

This driver has been asked before on a few occasions to turn to turn on the individual reading lights at least and on those occasions did so very reluctantly as he had to be asked more than once. I am on the bus tonight with the same driver and even the screen showing the road ahead has been blacked out by a brown paper bag being placed over it.

From travelling on a lot of coaches of many companies it is usual to have the tiny seat lights on as well as the reading lights and also some very soft lighting along the roofline/parcel shelf and at floor level.

What is bus eireann policy on lights on board coaches does anyone know?

AFAIK, legislation actually requires that bus and coach saloon lighting be switched on at night; presumably for safety reasons as well as passenger comfort.

foggy_lad

buzzwell wrote: »

AFAIK, legislation actually requires that bus and coach saloon lighting be switched on at night; presumably for safety reasons as well as passenger comfort.

there is usually some very soft lighting along the roof/parcel shelf and along the floor designed so as not to reflect in the windscreen, as far as i have seen these are usually some type of neon type lighting which can be turned on in degrees from a few soft lights to lighting up the whole bus.

and the bus gets me home to my door with a pint of milk for the tea at 10pm propellorhead but if i get the train i dont get home until 10.30pm with no milk:(

Del2005

You could have a small trip* when getting onto the bus next time in darkness, go back up to the driver and ask to speak to a supervisor about the dangerous conditions on the bus. They'll either make him turn the lights on or get him off night duty.





*

You don't actually need to trip if it's that dark how will they know:D

Propellerhead

foggy_lad wrote: »

there is usually some very soft lighting along the roof/parcel shelf and along the floor designed so as not to reflect in the windscreen, as far as i have seen these are usually some type of neon type lighting which can be turned on in degrees from a few soft lights to lighting up the whole bus.

and the bus gets me home to my door with a pint of milk for the tea at 10pm propellorhead but if i get the train i dont get home until 10.30pm with no milk:(

Fair enough, I understand the need for milk for the tea

corktina

if its a safety issue, I wouldnt want to travel on that bus. BE need to know.

Terrontress

Safety concerns aside, I've often been on a lengthy late night bus journey and wished they'd turn off those awful lights!

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

and the bus gets me home to my door with a pint of milk for the tea at 10pm propellorhead but if i get the train i dont get home until 10.30pm with no milk:(

They do sell milk in Dublin by the way.

Cookie_Monster

would you rather board a bus with slightly less than normal lighting or stand is the cold while you wait for another one?
Non issue IMO

corktina

schemingbohemia wrote: »

They do sell milk in Dublin by the way.

i wouldnt trust that Dublin milk...might not be fresh.:D

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

would you rather board a bus with slightly less than NO normal lighting or stand is the cold while you wait for another one?
Non issue IMO

i would prefer to be able to see if i am sitting on someone's discarded chewing gum or their discarded chicken dinner or leftover coffee or worse maybe a syringe, i would also like to be able to see if there is any obstructions in the centre aisle of the bus that i might trip over, i would also like the bus to be standard with the rest of the bus fleet and with all other busses on the road.

i would also like to think there was no safety issue here but this is unlikely as with no lights on board the bus someone is going to trip on a bag laft in the aisle, and if a night vision issue then everyone on the bus is in danger.

Cookie_Monster

but you've already said there is low level lighting on and the bus has windows that let light in, doesn't it? There are streetlights in Dublin and it's never pitch black.

If it's that big an issue write a complaint to BE stating the times, dates route numbers and bus reg numbers that it happens on and bring a torch with you next time.

edit: mobile phones are also quite useful in such situations as they give off a lot of light from the screen

veryangryman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

mobile phones are also quite useful in such situations as they give off a lot of light from the screen

Head hear.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but you've already said there is low level lighting on and the bus has windows that let light in, doesn't it? There are streetlights in Dublin and it's never pitch black.

If it's that big an issue write a complaint to BE stating the times, dates route numbers and bus reg numbers that it happens on and bring a torch with you next time.

edit: mobile phones are also quite useful in such situations as they give off a lot of light from the screen

normally there is low level lighting turned on at roof/floor level as well as the individual reading lights but the only lights on the busses this driver is on are the tiny blue lights between the reading lights which does not even provide enough light to see the switches for the reading lights or air conditioning, this is not acceptible imo

there are street lights in dublin shining in through the windows, but what about out in the country? on a three hour journey there is not much light getting in! also when parked up in busaras there is very little light getting into the coaches which are usually sandwiched between two other coaches.


are bus eireann saying now that a mobile phone is required for anyone that wants to see in one of their busses after dark? that statement is remarkable!

from the bus eireann website

It is Bus Éireann’s policy to procure more accessible vehicles as part of the continuing programme of fleet replacement and upgrading. Improvements such as high-visibility nosing on steps, hand rails, moquette seat covering, high-quality internal lighting and heating, public address systems etc are all designed to make our buses and coaches more accessible and more user friendly. We endeavour to obtain the most accessible vehicles available within the limits of available capital. All vehicles comply with the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 1963.

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=120

Rick Deckard

schemingbohemia wrote: »

They do sell milk in Dublin by the way.

corktina wrote: »

i wouldnt trust that Dublin milk...might not be fresh.:D

Suppose you get used to getting it straight from the cow, we're just used to cartons now.. more convenience than anything, can't all have a field out our back

AlekSmart

Foggy_Lad remarked.....

That statement is remarkable!

Yes indeed,one of many....very many....

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

are bus eireann saying now that a mobile phone is required for anyone that wants to see in one of their busses after dark? that statement is remarkable!

no, not them, just me
Better than nothing, eh? As I said write a complaint if you feel it's an issue. or bring a maglite :pac:

foggy_lad

customers should not have to bring their own flashlights on board any transport at night!

i have looked for some regulation etc stating that some lights must be on in public pasenger vehicles but cant find anything yet relating to it

AlekSmart

Customers should not have to bring their own flashlights on board any transport at night!

With Christmas on the way I`d be all in favour of a suitably atmospherically attired Foggy_Lad complete with sleeping cap and flickering candle on a brass candle holder a lá Scrooge.....could be the best mobile Christmas Panto yet !!

mikemac

Ah foggy lad, you must be on first name terms with Bus Éireann HQ by now.

I reckon they might send you an annual ticket eventually, try to kill you with kindness :cool:

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is Bus Éireann’s policy to procure more accessible vehicles as part of the continuing programme of fleet replacement and upgrading. Improvements such as high-visibility nosing on steps, hand rails, moquette seat covering, high-quality internal lighting and heating, public address systems etc are all designed to make our buses and coaches more accessible and more user friendly. We endeavour to obtain the most accessible vehicles available within the limits of available capital. All vehicles comply with the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 1963.

from the bus eireann websitehttp://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=120

doesn't say anything about them being turned on though
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

With Christmas on the way I`d be all in favour of a suitably atmospherically attired Foggy_Lad complete with sleeping cap and flickering candle on a brass candle holder a lá Scrooge.....could be the best mobile Christmas Panto yet !!

i was sure you had cast me as someone else, i was disappointed to see you see me in the role of that auld fart scrooge

feelingstressed wrote: »

Ah foggy lad, you must be on first name terms with Bus Éireann HQ by now.

I reckon they might send you an annual ticket eventually, try to kill you with kindness :cool:

better killed with kindness than blindness

gbob

Yes there is a requirement for reading lights on PCV's, there is also a requirement for step/exit lighting, ask politely if they aren't working the BUS should be out of service, not the driver.

foggy_lad

gbob wrote: »

Yes there is a requirement for reading lights on PCV's, there is also a requirement for step/exit lighting, ask politely if they aren't working the BUS should be out of service, not the driver.

is there not a requirement for lighting in the bus though along the floor as there is a step down into the aisle and there is usually some lighting along the roof\parcel shelf?

gbob

foggy_lad wrote: »

is there not a requirement for lighting in the bus though along the floor as there is a step down into the aisle and there is usually some lighting along the roof\parcel shelf?

Floor lighting is not a legal requirement, "adequate" lighting & specifically reading lights is required. Usually loading lighting comes on automatically when the door is opened, sometimes thats only step/cab, sometimes includes full length interior lighting.

foggy_lad

gbob wrote: »

Floor lighting is not a legal requirement, "adequate" lighting & specifically reading lights is required. Usually loading lighting comes on automatically when the door is opened, sometimes thats only step/cab, sometimes includes full length interior lighting.

ok fair enough but i would think that the tiny blue seat lights are not adequate lighting and there should be other lights on during a journey as well as the reading lights if passengers chose to have these on,

and then why does every other bus eireann and other company have soft lighting along the floor or parcel shelf but this driver choses not to have these lights on? why also was the screen on board showing the road ahead blacked out with a paper bag taped over it? this is the first time i have seen this on any bus eireann bus. it would appear there are a number of irregularities with this driver when driving at night?

AlekSmart

This driver choses not to have these lights on? why also was the screen on board showing the road ahead blacked out with a paper bag taped over it? this is the first time i have seen this on any bus eireann bus. it would appear there are a number of irregularities with this driver when driving at night?

Of course there would be....: )

Coming soon in episode 3,more stratling revelations concerning Foggy_Lad`s journey through the Heart of Darkness......Like peace,the it comes dripping slowly...;)

The issue of internal reflections when night-driving is a very complex one and is the subject of much debate.

It`s worth noting how Dublin Bus for example succeeded in having a major redesign carried out on it`s Alexander built fleet after numerous reflection related issues surfaced,particularly on outer suburban routes along roads with no street lighting.

Have you tried a headband light?
These are very popular with walkers and cyclists and a boon to provincial dwellers everywhere,even off the bus

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Of course there would be....: )

Coming soon in episode 3,more stratling revelations concerning Foggy_Lad`s journey through the Heart of Darkness......Like peace,the it comes dripping slowly...;)

The issue of internal reflections when night-driving is a very complex one and is the subject of much debate.

It`s worth noting how Dublin Bus for example succeeded in having a major redesign carried out on it`s Alexander built fleet after numerous reflection related issues surfaced,particularly on outer suburban routes along roads with no street lighting.

Have you tried a headband light?
These are very popular with walkers and cyclists and a boon to provincial dwellers everywhere,even off the bus

surely it would be safer and better all round for this to be looked at properly by bus eireann and whatever action necessary taken to ensure the safety of passengers and staff as well as the general public as a bus can do a lot of damage.

having a laugh about it is fine until someone has a bus sitting in their living room where their telly(or children) used to be.

T Corolla

foggy_lad wrote: »

Train involves getting out to heuston getting tickets walking halfway to inchIcore to board a dirty train with out of order toilets that leaves me a mile further away from home than the bus and also personal choice comes into it, I prefer the bus!

Anything else to add seeing how you know me and where I live so well?

The trains are not that bad. You can get a ten minute luas ride to Heuston
The toilets are public use not private. Go to the toilet before you leave work and you should be fine.

AlekSmart

Having a laugh about it is fine until someone has a bus sitting in their living room where their telly(or children) used to be.

At this stage( :rolleyes: ) Foggy_Lad,Laughter is about the best result you can expect.

At this stage it appears that all of the CIE group companies and perhaps a few of the private operators serving the Carlow region have incurred your not inconsiderable wrath on a wide variety of topics.

However,it would seem that most of your complaints are adjudicated upon well in advance of you submitting them,with particular ferocity reserved for the Drivers :eek:

On this particular topic (Interior Lighting),you have seen fit to extrapolate a low level of interior lighting all the way up to the Driver having an eyesight problem.....Judge,Jury and Executioner anyone ??

The issue you raise is however a pertinent one,and as I have said has already figured in one of the CIE Bus companies specification debates.

However,again as I`ve tried to get across,the issue of Interior Lighting and problematic reflections on the inner face of the Windscreen is well known and continually arises in many juristictions.

Re-Positioned Windscreens,Low Level Lighting,Decency Screens,Driver`s Cab modifications are but some of the responses from operators but none as yet have entirely solved the problems,which vary immensely from design to design.

If it helps Foggy_Lad,I can personally recall Leyland Atlanteans on CIE,s Dublin City Services which featured a half-drop blackout curtain on a rail which the driver pulled when leaving Dublin City airspace...of course this was in the days when the Driver had an assistant to deal with the PR and the Glad Handing required by the passengers.....Ah Foggy,dem waz de dayzzzz.....:)

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

At this stage( :rolleyes: ) Foggy_Lad,Laughter is about the best result you can expect.

At this stage it appears that all of the CIE group companies and perhaps a few of the private operators serving the Carlow region have incurred your not inconsiderable wrath on a wide variety of topics.

However,it would seem that most of your complaints are adjudicated upon well in advance of you submitting them,with particular ferocity reserved for the Drivers :eek:

On this particular topic (Interior Lighting),you have seen fit to extrapolate a low level of interior lighting all the way up to the Driver having an eyesight problem.....Judge,Jury and Executioner anyone ??

The issue you raise is however a pertinent one,and as I have said has already figured in one of the CIE Bus companies specification debates.

However,again as I`ve tried to get across,the issue of Interior Lighting and problematic reflections on the inner face of the Windscreen is well known and continually arises in many juristictions.

Re-Positioned Windscreens,Low Level Lighting,Decency Screens,Driver`s Cab modifications are but some of the responses from operators but none as yet have entirely solved the problems,which vary immensely from design to design.

If it helps Foggy_Lad,I can personally recall Leyland Atlanteans on CIE,s Dublin City Services which featured a half-drop blackout curtain on a rail which the driver pulled when leaving Dublin City airspace...of course this was in the days when the Driver had an assistant to deal with the PR and the Glad Handing required by the passengers.....Ah Foggy,dem waz de dayzzzz.....:)

talking about this issue as if it applies to all bus eireann busses is misleading as i have not seen such extravagent lengths to block out light on any other bus service public or private.

the issue i raised was that this particular driver has blacked out an internal monitor as well as leaving all internal lighting off(except for tiny blue lighting) even while parked up boarding the bus in busaras where there would have been no issue with reflections.

i have not adjudicated on any complaint but am openly discussing why any driver inspector or any employee would black out internal monitors or purposly leave all the lights switched off, and the extrapolation i am accused of was nothing of the sort, i askek why this would be the case and was advised that it "may" be because of night vision problems. for such a serious condition(on a par with colour blindness for an electrician) i would not be happy with mere debating the issue amongst CIE staff but would naturally err on the side of caution but if you think this is not appropriate you are of course entitled to say so.

as for your tale of yesteryear and recollections of leyland atlanteans with their blackout curtain, most of bus eireanns fleet also have these blinds/curtains behind the drivers seat stretching to the roof of the bus to block reflections and cut down on possible distractions. and the bus in question and the other busses all had these in place but they are redundant if the driver has already blacked out the bus interior.

Del2005

foggy_lad wrote: »

talking about this issue as if it applies to all bus eireann busses is misleading as i have not seen such extravagent lengths to block out light on any other bus service public or private.

the issue i raised was that this particular driver has blacked out an internal monitor as well as leaving all internal lighting off(except for tiny blue lighting) even while parked up boarding the bus in busaras where there would have been no issue with reflections.

i have not adjudicated on any complaint but am openly discussing why any driver inspector or any employee would black out internal monitors or purposly leave all the lights switched off, and the extrapolation i am accused of was nothing of the sort, i askek why this would be the case and was advised that it "may" be because of night vision problems. for such a serious condition(on a par with colour blindness for an electrician) i would not be happy with mere debating the issue amongst CIE staff but would naturally err on the side of caution but if you think this is not appropriate you are of course entitled to say so.

as for your tale of yesteryear and recollections of leyland atlanteans with their blackout curtain, most of bus eireanns fleet also have these blinds/curtains behind the drivers seat stretching to the roof of the bus to block reflections and cut down on possible distractions. and the bus in question and the other busses all had these in place but they are redundant if the driver has already blacked out the bus interior.

The next time you are getting onto this drivers bus in Busaras could you not ask one of the many inspectors standing around why all the lights are off or request for them to be turned on? It shouldn't be too hard to spot the blacked out bus before you get on.

AlekSmart

Foggy_Lad posted.....

it "may" be because of night vision problems. for such a serious condition(on a par with colour blindness for an electrician) i would not be happy with mere debating the issue amongst CIE staff but would naturally err on the side of caution but if you think this is not appropriate you are of course entitled to say so.

The problems associated with night-time stray windscreen reflections can be very serious,irritating and even dangerous from a driving perspective.

However just because a driver encounters the problem does not,of itself infer a medical condition regarding eyesight at all.

It usually has far more to do with vehicle specification,poor interior design and even the drivers physical build than the serious medical issue Foggy_Lad appears to require in order to do down this particular driver,who like Foggy_Lad himself,may well be erring on the side of caution in keeping the lighting down.

The mention of the driver covering the Screen may well be an indicator of a reflection problem in itslef and perhaps this driver prefers to cover it rather than request a change of vehicle thus further inconvienencing the unfortunate passengers.

slimjimmc

AlekSmart wrote: »

Foggy_Lad posted.....

The problems associated with night-time stray windscreen reflections can be very serious,irritating and even dangerous from a driving perspective.

However just because a driver encounters the problem does not,of itself infer a medical condition regarding eyesight at all.

It usually has far more to do with vehicle specification,poor interior design and even the drivers physical build than the serious medical issue Foggy_Lad appears to require in order to do down this particular driver,who like Foggy_Lad himself,may well be erring on the side of caution in keeping the lighting down.

The mention of the driver covering the Screen may well be an indicator of a reflection problem in itslef and perhaps this driver prefers to cover it rather than request a change of vehicle thus further inconvienencing the unfortunate passengers.

It wasn't Foggy Lad who suggested the driver may have vision problems, MYOB did that in post #3. However, if the driver of a night-time bus does have night vision problems then it may indeed be a serious issue.

AlekSmart

However, if the driver of a night-time bus does have night vision problems then it may indeed be a serious issue.

My bad,Slimjimmc,and fulsome apologies to Foggy_Lad for the slight,but..the issue of vision problems caused by a medical issue and those caused by design problems are quite different.

From F_L`s post the Driver appears to have issue with reflections,which remains a very live issue with modern bus and coach design.

The drivers eyesight issue can and should be part of the normal Drivers Medical process during licence renewal or annual eyesight checks.

My problem is the ease with which MYOB and F_L slip seamlessly into presupposing a Medical issue with the Driver rather than a design issue with the vehicle(s)

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

My bad,Slimjimmc,and fulsome apologies to Foggy_Lad for the slight,but..the issue of vision problems caused by a medical issue and those caused by design problems are quite different.

From F_L`s post the Driver appears to have issue with reflections,which remains a very live issue with modern bus and coach design.

The drivers eyesight issue can and should be part of the normal Drivers Medical process during licence renewal or annual eyesight checks.

My problem is the ease with which MYOB and F_L slip seamlessly into presupposing a Medical issue with the Driver rather than a design issue with the vehicle(s)

i did clarify by saying that i had not noticed any other bus or coach operated by bus eireann or other operator which had the same measures taken to cut down on reflections if in fact this was the intention on these occasions with this driver, maybe he was having a sleep in the bus on breaks and wanted it as dark as possible but even at that the question of fitness to drive would have to be asked of any driver craving sleep in such a manner.

Vic_08

foggy_lad wrote: »

i did clarify by saying that i had not noticed any other bus or coach operated by bus eireann or other operator which had the same measures taken to cut down on reflections

The fact is that you are far from an expert on this topic so your observations mean very little. Alek has gone to great lengths to explain the problems caused by internal reflections but as usual you will not take on board the facts give to you by those that know better and simply make up your own theories to suit whatever complaint you are making.

Internal lights that are bright enough to illuminate the cabin to any useful degree will inevitably create reflections, it is not a coincidence that most vehicles apart from passenger carrying buses are rarely driven with ANY internal lights on. The only complete solution for buses would be to completely seperate the cab/front from the passenger cabin blocking all light from the cabin but as this is not likely to feature in most coach/bus designs for various reasons compromises have to be made.

If you really expect your complaint to result in any BE manager/supervisor instructing this or any other driver to turn on specific light you will be disappointed. Issuing general guidelines is one thing but no manager is going to issue spefic instructions regarding something that has clear safety implications. The fact is such an instruction could leve them personally liable in the event of an accident that could be in any way contributed to by their insistence of leaving certain lights on reducing vision for the driver.


On the specific coach you are referring to there are 5 internal light settings; cab+door spots (these automatically stay on when the door is open so would have been on when you boarded the bus)
cabin roof strip lights which have 2 settings, all illuminated or all but the first row above the cab and front seats illuminated
reading lights above all seats which when activated can be switched on/off by the passengers
blue "night lights" inbetween the reading lights.

All of these except the blue lights create reflections on the windscreen, how much they hinder vision depends on how dark it is outside and where on the screen they reflect which differs depending on the location of the lights, driver and any internal objects that can block the light.

The suggestion that this is not an issue for drivers other than this individual is simply wrong, I have had problems due to internal lights as have most if not all bus and coach drivers. I could go into detail about the varing degree of reflection caused by each set of lights on about a dozen different bus types but I doubt anyone wants to read that.

foggy_lad wrote: »

if in fact this was the intention on these occasions with this driver, maybe he was having a sleep in the bus on breaks and wanted it as dark as possible but even at that the question of fitness to drive would have to be asked of any driver craving sleep in such a manner.

I find it offensive the manner in which you constantly make unsubstantiated accusations of misconduct based on nothing but your own theories.

It is extremely ignorant and in this case as it is referring to one specific individual who could be easily identified is borderline defamatory.

You obviously have issues with frontline transport staff, particularly drivers and appear to be convinced you know better than us how to do our jobs, perhaps you shold write a training manual so we can all benefit from your expertise.

foggy_lad

Vic_08 wrote: »

The fact is that you are far from an expert on this topic so your observations mean very little. Alek has gone to great lengths to explain the problems caused by internal reflections but as usual you will not take on board the facts give to you by those that know better and simply make up your own theories to suit whatever complaint you are making.

Internal lights that are bright enough to illuminate the cabin to any useful degree will inevitably create reflections, it is not a coincidence that most vehicles apart from passenger carrying buses are rarely driven with ANY internal lights on. The only complete solution for buses would be to completely seperate the cab/front from the passenger cabin blocking all light from the cabin but as this is not likely to feature in most coach/bus designs for various reasons compromises have to be made.

If you really expect your complaint to result in any BE manager/supervisor instructing this or any other driver to turn on specific light you will be disappointed. Issuing general guidelines is one thing but no manager is going to issue spefic instructions regarding something that has clear safety implications. The fact is such an instruction could leve them personally liable in the event of an accident that could be in any way contributed to by their insistence of leaving certain lights on reducing vision for the driver.


On the specific coach you are referring to there are 5 internal light settings; cab+door spots (these automatically stay on when the door is open so would have been on when you boarded the bus)
cabin roof strip lights which have 2 settings, all illuminated or all but the first row above the cab and front seats illuminated
reading lights above all seats which when activated can be switched on/off by the passengers
blue "night lights" inbetween the reading lights.

All of these except the blue lights create reflections on the windscreen, how much they hinder vision depends on how dark it is outside and where on the screen they reflect which differs depending on the location of the lights, driver and any internal objects that can block the light.

The suggestion that this is not an issue for drivers other than this individual is simply wrong, I have had problems due to internal lights as have most if not all bus and coach drivers. I could go into detail about the varing degree of reflection caused by each set of lights on about a dozen different bus types but I doubt anyone wants to read that.



I find it offensive the manner in which you constantly make unsubstantiated accusations of misconduct based on nothing but your own theories.

It is extremely ignorant and in this case as it is referring to one specific individual who could be easily identified is borderline defamatory.

You obviously have issues with frontline transport staff, particularly drivers and appear to be convinced you know better than us how to do our jobs, perhaps you shold write a training manual so we can all benefit from your expertise.

ok on the bus i was on there were NO cabin roof lights illuminated at all at any time and as stated already for the entire trip to carlow the only illumination on board was from the little blue nightlights and some individual reading lights which people had turned on, even the monitor screen had been blacked out.

on this occasion i did not make any accusation of misconduct about or aimed at any river i merely asked why when other drivers of the same type bus were able to drive with internal lights turned on this driver seemed unable to do so. and i dont see how this individual could be identified by me as all bus eireann busses are much the same! oh he is in the one with all the lights off!

i have NO issues with drivers of any transport company when they are doing their jobs with or even without a smile as we cant always be in good humour, but when ANY employee acts in a manner that is dangerous unlawful or contrary to the operating proceedures of their employer i will make a complaint about them, lights are there for customer comfort not for drivers to decide they will not use them.

Vic_08

foggy_lad wrote: »

ok on the bus i was on there were NO cabin roof lights illuminated at all at any time and as stated already for the entire trip to carlow the only illumination on board was from the little blue nightlights and some individual reading lights which people had turned on, even the monitor screen had been blacked out.

The reading lights are bright enough to read books under so it can not be said that anyone was forced to be on a bus in total darkness. If the lack of overall illumination bothered you that much nothing was stopping you from going through the bus turning on all the reading lights although that most of these were not on would suggest many of the passengers were not concerned by the low lighting level.

foggy_lad wrote: »

on this occasion i did not make any accusation of misconduct about or aimed at any river

I quoted the part of your post I was referring to although I could go through your posts on this board and pick out numerous similar statements. Many of the individual posts are out of line but taken as a whole your general tone is offensive, you even managed to slot a dig at LUAS drivers into a thread asking about transport connections from Heuston. You say you have no issue with drivers but the continuous stream of complaints and snide remarks says otherwise.

foggy_lad wrote: »

i merely asked why when other drivers of the same type bus were able to drive with internal lights turned on this driver seemed unable to do so.

I have explained why in detail and Alek previously did the same but you appear not to read anything that goes against your pre-determined view.

foggy_lad wrote: »

and i dont see how this individual could be identified by me as all bus eireann busses are much the same! oh he is in the one with all the lights off!

You gave the date and time of the service, anyone with access to rosters and recorded service logs could find out in seconds.

foggy_lad wrote: »

i have NO issues with drivers of any transport company when they are doing their jobs with or even without a smile as we cant always be in good humour, but when ANY employee acts in a manner that is dangerous unlawful or contrary to the operating proceedures of their employer i will make a complaint about them,

Your opinion of what is or isn't dangerous or unlawful is nothing more than an opinion (and not a particularly well informed one at that) and internal company operating procedures are not public domain and none of your business.

You are of course free to complain about whatever you want but false accusations of dangerous or illegal acts is defamatory. I am aware of a specific case of a bus driver (in the UK) who is taking a case against an individual and his employer over an allegation that was made by the individual to the bus company who took action against the driver. It was subsequently referred to the police who determined the allegation was without merit.

foggy_lad wrote: »

lights are there for customer comfort not for drivers to decide they will not use them.

The primary concern of any bus driver is the safe operation of the vehicle, all other issues are secondary and if he/she feels it is necessary to turn off specific lights in order to ensure safe operation then so be it.

foggy_lad

THe last part of you post says it all. Primary concern is the safe operation of the vehicle but if lights are causing reflections for one particular driver and all other drivers seen to be able to drive unhindered then it would appear the driver has the problem not the bus.

Again I did not identify any driver unless someone from within bus eireann decides to violate data protection and do some investigating. As the only people with access to the information are bus eireann it is not in the public domain.

The primary concern of any bus driver is the safe operation of the vehicle, all other issues are secondary and if he/she feels it is necessary to turn off specific lights in order to ensure safe operation then so be it.

if one driver out of hundreds has an issue with coach lighting then i would see this as the drivers problem not some issue with reflections that other drivers are well able to overcome without blacking out the coach.

SHOVELLER

Apparently Bus Eireann are going to provide free wifi on its Dublin Galway route on a trial basis for 3 months. If successful it will be expanded to all its Expressway routes.

Great news as its good on the Aircoach.

But when will they ever turn off the radio on their services? Makes reading and sleeping impossible.

Mycroft H

I do get a few very early moring and late night buses during the week and its much nicer when the lights are turned off. Allows me to get a bit of sleep on the way into dublin in the mornings. :pac:

On reason why I avoid the train in the mornings, as the lights are far too bright and i can't sleep.


If the blue strip lighting isn't enough for you, just turn on the reading lights. The blue lighting is more then enough to get on and off especially if you getting on at a dark bus stop.


If a particular driver sees that its safer to drive in the night with the bus interior lights off, then so be it, the safety of his passengers are his main concern. You try drive at night with the interior lights of your car on and come back and tell us at how easy it is to drive.

Nevyn

The this is the driver can disable the reading lights so that passengers can not turn them on and it seem that is what this driver has been doing.