Budget 2010 Motor Tax predictions

boa999

Hi All,

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming budget. I think the government could easily put up the tax on post 2008 cars by 200 euro (for Band A and Band B cars anyway). How likely is this?
No doubt the tax and pre 2008 cars will go up also but maybe to a lesser extent.
The above could have knock on effects for second hand cars, im considering buying a 2007 car at the moment, getting a good enough deal but it will be less desirable to buy in a few years than a 2008 due to the huge tax difference (584 V 156). Still I dont fancy handing out an extra 4k just to come up a year to a similar car but 2008 plate.

ArphaRima

Obviously I cant predict what will happen, but seeing as this country loves raping motorists I can assume bad things.

I expect an easy target would be to apply the newer rate structure on older cars. It would have some people paying more, some less. But most people would pay more.

If you are concerned about the tax rate and running costs (ie petrol etc) I would hold off on my purchase until after the budget. It might even help with secondhand prices given its bound to be a tough budget.

Zonda999

fluffer wrote: »

I expect an easy target would be to apply the newer rate structure on older cars.

I cannot see this happening at all at all tbh! I sincerely hope it will for my own benefit(Road tax would half..) but cant see why, quite a few people's road tax would easily shoot to 630€ and 1050€ no problem at all, thats a serious raping indeed

opinion guy

boa999 wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming budget. I think the government could easily put up the tax on post 2008 cars by 200 euro (for Band A and Band B cars anyway). How likely is this?

Seriously unlikely. I think if anything they will crank up tax on older cars.
Various reasons I'm saying this:

a) the low band a and b tax rates are there to incentivise greener cars and lest anyone has forgotten greens are in power. its working - cars are getting more efficient. What they might do is lower the CO2 limits for band a, b etc - thou this gets complicated quickly so perhaps they won't do this.

b) there are sweet f.a. 2009 and 2010 cars on the road in comparison to older cars - they will raise far higher revenue by jacking up the tax on older models

c)jacking up tax on newer cars will depress new sales. Again more likely they would jack up tax on old cars instead making news with low tax and low co2 more efficient. (we will all be driving 1 stroke enclosed gokarts before too long)

Mr Benevolent

Going on last year's I doubt it will change except to raise the A band. It's stupid system anyway. Give Irish people a choice of tax bands and they'll opt for the lowest every time.

Tragedy

Unlikely to raise old motor tax by much, more likely to bring new motor tax more in line with older.

They aren't going to tax themselves out of money by forcing people with older larger engined cars into downgrading, after all - they want petrol duty too

Bodhan

The greens know what will happen, we won't find out until the dogsbody reads it out but expect older cars to get hit again, petrol and diesel to rise in the form of an eco-tax and some sort of tax break for EV type cars.
I would say there'll be some change to commercial tax too.

opinion guy

Tragedy wrote: »

Unlikely to raise old motor tax by much, more likely to bring new motor tax more in line with older.

They aren't going to tax themselves out of money by forcing people with older larger engined cars into downgrading, after all - they want petrol duty too

You are forgetting all that lovely VRT they can earn:D

Bodhan wrote: »

The greens know what will happen, we won't find out until the dogsbody reads it out but expect older cars to get hit again, petrol and diesel to rise in the form of an eco-tax and some sort of tax break for EV type cars.
I would say there'll be some change to commercial tax too.

This

dynamick

I expect

• A flat % increase on all bands of motor tax both emissions and cc based. Range 5-10% (there was none last year and it's easy to put through and hard to avoid)
• An increase in VRT % rates of 1% to apply to all bands. (can't be too much or car sales will collapse again)
• An increase in carbon tax by 20-25% (to track the trade price of co2 emissions)
• No increase in VAT (because it was tried and didn't work)
• An increase in motor fuel excise duty of 4c (UK is increasing VAT by 2.5% from Jan 2011 so I expect that excise duty can be increased by approx 4c/litre without losing sales cross border.)

Tragedy

opinion guy wrote: »

You are forgetting all that lovely VRT they can earn:D

People driving older larger engined cars aren't going to buy new green cars. They just aren't.

CompleteCarGuy

I did the sums on it's this week and despite a 52% rise in car sales the Gov earned only 6.5% more in road tax because there has been an increase in sales of Band A cars of 317.7% and almost 79% of cars come from Band A and B so they are making very little on road tax. I'd say it's a given that they increase the charges on the bands people are buying now.

Seth Brundle

Given the craphole that the country's finances are in, I would expect that all bands will go up.
The greens will help bring even more joy to the world!

professore

Taxing older cars to get people to trade up to newer cars is being very eco-unfriendly unless they are doing mega-miles.

It would be greener and cheaper for many motorists to keep their car for as long as it is reliable rather than trading it for a new car, according the Environmental Transport Association (ETA).

Before a new car has even been turned on, before it even leaves the showroom, it has already accounted for 6 tonnes of CO2 emissions just in the construction, delivery, and marketing.

A spokesperson for the ETA said: "Swapping a thirsty and polluting older car for a lighter, more fuel-efficient model can make environmental sense if you are doing a high mileage, but if you do relatively few miles it makes sense to keep your car for as long as it is reliable. The greater your annual mileage, the greater the potential environmental saving from changing to a more fuel-efficient model."

Source: http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/verdict-car-longer-greener.html
(and lots of others as well)

Seth Brundle

Thats all well and good but the 6tonnes of CO2 is not this country's problem (its Japan's or germany's or whatever).
Our government wants to be able to say "here is the CO2 produced here" which may sound greener than the reality

Viper_JB

professore wrote: »

Taxing older cars to get people to trade up to newer cars is being very eco-unfriendly unless they are doing mega-miles.



Source: http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/verdict-car-longer-greener.html
(and lots of others as well)

I agree, however there is no one in the current administration intellegent enough to see this, all the greens care about is co2 emissions in Ireland. It doesn't matter when they're being made abroad. Shame there's not a brain between the current green party, it discredits everything they're supposed to stand for when they have idiots like Gormley representing them.

I can see older motor tax increasing again, it's the only way they could possibly maintain any consistency, it does seem like they're determined to get everyone driving an older car either off the road or buying a new car.

mullingar

kbannon wrote: »

I would expect that all bands will go up.

I reckon they will either:
- Move the Goal posts, creating a new Band AA for cars <79gCO2 will now attract the lowest tax and shift all the tax prices fo rthe rest.
- Add 20% to everything.

Or, What I would MUCH prefer, change it to the UK system: A fixed price for the car for the year and add, say, 5c on the fuel.
The more you drive, the more you pay.
This system IMO is what the greens should push through.

I may dream on as I know this will never happen, Im just pi$$ed off paying €1300 tax on my car when I only do 8k miles/yr.

changes

Viper_JB wrote: »

I can see older motor tax increasing again, it's the only way they could possibly maintain any consistency, it does seem like they're determined to get everyone driving an older car either off the road or buying a new car.

I agree, the greens are going to cause great hardship for people working in rural counties in low paid jobs who need a car to get to the factory/shop/business they work at. Many of these people have no other way to get to their work and aren't earning enough to buy a 2008 or newer car.

eagerv

I reckon we will see a big increase on Diesel and a smaller increase on petrol.
At present exchange rates, an increase of 6 cent on petrol and 16 cent on diesel would bring us on line with uk prices. (Looking at average prices there and here)
I am suprised that the greens have allowed a dirtier fuel such as diesel to be taxed less than petrol.

changes

changes wrote: »

I agree, the greens are going to cause great hardship for people working in rural counties in low paid jobs who need a car to get to the factory/shop/business they work at. Many of these people have no other way to get to their work and aren't earning enough to buy a 2008 or newer car.

The greens are a shower of numpties, when that t1t cycles into the Dail his state car is in tow, how retarded is that.

Max Power1

Hmm. Lets see. I will answer in two ways:

Scenario 1 - what I want to happen and think should happen:

Increase the CC based scheme, €104 and €154 rates is way too low to be paying. 25% increases minimum. 50% increase in vintage car tax, again €48 is too low. Perhaps a small increase in the CC based scheme, but, as those on the CC scheme are already effectively subsidising the emmissions scheme, maybe no increase. Duty of fuel untouched or increased marginally

Scenario 2 - what is probably going to happen to happen:

No increase on the Emissions scheme (fcuking greens), and a 5-10% increase in teh CC based scheme. Increase in duty on Diesel and petrol, perhaps 5% petrol 10% diesel.

I would be amazed if they didn't hit the emissions system, folks buying 520ds for loads of cash and taxing them for less than 2 tanks of diesel is looney. I reckon they will announce a 4 year ladder type increase thing on thee emissions based system. Maybe 5% on the old cc system but nothing major.

The emissions based system was a retarded system to bring in anyway, reps and the like doing megamiles and paying close to f all in road tax, madness.

Viper_JB

RoverJames wrote: »

I would be amazed if they didn't hit the emissions system, folks buying 520ds for loads of cash and taxing them for less than 2 tanks of diesel is looney. I reckon they will announce a 4 year ladder type increase thing on thee emissions based system. Maybe 5% on the old cc system but nothing major.

The emissions based system was a retarded system to bring in anyway, reps and the like doing megamiles and paying close to f all in road tax, madness.

Well essentially they're paying for every mile they travel with the co2 levys + all the other taxes on the fuel. If you were to say buy 100 litres of fuel a week, would work out as say...131 euro, only 40-50 euro of that is paying for what you're getting. The rest is going to Anglo :eek: lol

Viper_JB

Viper_JB wrote: »

Well essentially they're paying for every mile they travel with the co2 levys + all the other taxes on the fuel. If you were to say buy 100 litres of fuel a week, would work out as say...131 euro, only 40-50 euro of that is paying for what you're getting. The rest is going to Anglo :eek: lol

True, but why not get another €400 or so in roadtax off them too :pac:

Eric Cartman

a 25-30% VAT rate on diesel would be the only fair way to actually increase the cost of diesel, that wa businesses arent affected as they can claim it back , but all of you b*stards who bought 520d's and band A/B diesels to save money will still <snip>

limklad

Since it is the Green Parties in power (Environment and money grabbing ones) and since we have a huge deficit to balance out and debt to pay for, drastic measures are called for.

General Road/Motor/Fuel Tax

• Motor Tax: I expect all bands to be increased by 10% with Tax Band A, 20 % with Tax Band B, 30% with Tax Band C, 40% with Tax band D.
• Petrol/Diesel to add 10c per litre.
• Bio-Fuels to add 10c per litre (not to leave them out and in case people will start using them to avoid the higher Tax in fossil fuels)
• VRT will increase by 10% to compensate for lost VRT on previous years. (If people can buy cars in a recession for the last two years then they can afford the extra expense. Normal people will not be able to afford new cars due to paying higher income tax and reduction of their various Tax band allowances from their incomes. so increase in VRT will not effect them since they cannot afford them now.)
• New Road Toll Tax on every €10 per 1000KM (to Start with to get the system up and running) to be introduce at checked and report by the NCT to revenue. Revenue to bill you. (This will included electric Vehicles).
• Cycle Tax €200 for road maintenance. (Need to keep the Tax balance for lost revenue in case anybody decided to get rid of their car and buy a bike to cycle to work. Could also force people to use their cars more to generate more Tax revenue, if they already have one out of necessity).
• Introduce a Congestion charge in every major City and Towns. (Increase jobs for monitoring cars also scrapped all futures bypasses to generate immediate revenue. Have different zones for different amounts. i.e Limerick City, Condell/Dock Road €10 per usage. Encourage public Transport (schools included) and use the Limerick Tunnel and to pay for more Traffic lights and remove all roundabouts!!! if there is not enough Traffic lights already :rolleyes:.)
• Electric Vehicles will be Tax to start with €0.02 at every power Points to get the system up and going. (Electricity is still largely carbon based as most power stations are still carbon burning such as oil and coal/Peat And when people start using Electric Cars the Government will still need the revenue since they will have reduced revenue from Petrol/Diesel Tax.)
• €10 Per Vehicles per event that drop/collects kids to school that live within 1 km within city/town bounds where footpaths are available. Official Public Transport and Schools Buses and Teachers who work in the same school as the kids attend are exempt. Every other kid must use school bus/Public Transport outside 1Km from school
  

Road Safety Tax Measures

• Introduce VAT on all Road Traffic Fines.
• €50 Tax for every Penalty Points incurred.
• €1000 Tax for achieving maximum number of Points.
• €1000 Tax for suspension of Driving licence by the court.
• €500 Tax for Endorsement of Driving licence by the court.
• €1000 Road Tax in addition to current taxes for each year Vehicle older than 10 years (unless classified vintage) under the guise of Road Safety Tax.
• €50 parking Tax for each parking space that is Taking up by improper parked cars. €20 reward from this tax is for the first person to report with photograph of clear infringements with GPS co-ordinates, date and time for illegal park vehicles that is legally accepted by the Courts/Gardai/Local Authorities. 1 Penalty point for improper parking.
• €20 Parking Tax in addition to fines for illegal use of Taxi/loading Bays/ handicap/double yellow lines/clearways. €10 reward from this tax is for the first person to report with photograph of clear infringements with GPS co-ordinates, date and time for illegal park vehicles that is legally accepted by the Courts/Gardai/Local Authorities. 1 Penalty point for improper parking.
  

Driving Test

• VAT on all Road Driving Test to be added.
• Increase Road Driving Test fee costs by 20%
• Increase by 20% for repeat Driving Test by previous amount paid. (People who failed Driving tests are costing Taxpayers more than €3 million a year).
• Immediate €100 fine for each 5 mins for been late to the Driving Test, This will increase to €500 for been 15 mins late and your Test will be cancelled.
• Immediate €1000 fine for failing to turn up to Driving Test without cancelling it within 2 days, genuine emergency are excluded, including one owns Death. This does not mean that not having the right make-up on is an emergency or reason to be late!!! (There are current long waiting lists, remove the non-genuine emergency and the waiting list will reduce significantly)

Have I left anything out??

Oh yea,
Urban Security Congestion Tax €10 anybody entering or within other types of Transport by method of a Road/Street/Rail within certain Zones within city centre and Towns will be introduced to reduce crimes levels within these zones will be introduced in 5 years. This system is self adapting as higher the crime the higher the charge. This will be controlled and Zones selected by both Councils and the Local Garda Stations. This will be finance any Police Authority and security Bodies creating even more Jobs. Anybody could cannot afford the Tax will be forcible evicted or arrested and convicted for failing to comply with eviction.

limklad

limklad wrote: »

awful stuff altogether

I hope you're wrong :eek:

limklad

RoverJames wrote: »

I hope you're wrong :eek:

Well the times are here for extreme measure for extreme financial disaster we are in. There been report we be paying of €90 Billion before the end of next year in additional to our current debt that we had going into this financial mess with the banks,

seriouslywhat

Unfortunately I do agree with some of whats been said above.

Extreme measures are needed by the Goverment right now and I think motorists will feel the next budget.

Fuel will absolutely go up. Both petrol and diesel. They'll likely become closer together though so petrol going up less than diesel.

As for the tax the old system rates will go up 5% at least imo and there'll more than likely be some changes in the new system too which shouldnt have happened in the first place but then again thats the greens for ya.

All in all to be honest I can see this been a bleak budget in general. The AIB thing has really brought home how bad things have gotten.
They need every penny they can get.

ps for what its worth I personally think they best way of making more money for the Goverment is by increasing the fuel and letting those who drive the most, use the roads the most etc pay more and those who use it less pay less. Never gonna happen though.:rolleyes:

eagerv

Greens will probably hit hard on diesel now they have the chance! I know it will be hard on hauliers but how does the rest of europe manage, especially with the distances involved. Also by slightly tweaking the CO2 bands they would be able to get most cars into the next higher band. Many cars have already been tweaked to get into the low band they are in at the moment.

mullingar

eagerv wrote: »

Also by slightly tweaking the CO2 bands they would be able to get most cars into the next higher band. Many cars have already been tweaked to get into the low band they are in at the moment.

IMO The biggest cat-and-mouse game ever.