Buzzards I think

Alchemist2

Was out on ground this morning which i am about to let some cocks out out on next week and as i approached a gap in the ditch this big f..k off bird of prey as calm as you like flew off the tree right in front of me this this was huge brown in colour with tallons as big as me hand i aint messin ive never been as close to one in my life anyhoo again id hunted the ground i could hear this screech when i looked down on the field of beet here was this bird flyin just above the beet tops i think the ba....d was hunting for pheasants..not two mins after he left the field there were four more of these things up in the elements i mean did some thick fooker let these things out?? i was planning on putting out feeders today before i let out the birds but surley it will be like an open invite for these birds to an easy dinner/dinners... any advice anyone... i know ppl say these birds dont kill live prey.. but i aint so sure... this lad in the beet field meant business:mad::mad:

GixxerThou

Had this argument wit people before.. Ive personally seen Buzzards take polts.. Watched one hunting with a peregrine once aswell.. We tried leaving out dead pigeons for them in a hope they would take them instead...

deeksofdoom

AFAIK buzzards will feed on carrion, they don't really go for poults over 10 weeks old or so I've been told.

The sight of them will make the adult birds jumpy at any rate.

As for leaving dead pigeons out for them to eat, I would say if the buzzard feeds on a dead bird with lead shot in it, your going to poison them... and that could lead to even bigger problems.

dicky82

has anyone noticed a decline in the numbers in pheasants as the increase of buzzards in most areas?? there was a thing about it on the fieldsports britan channel where game keepers were looking for a licence to reduce buzzard numbers in certain areas.

deeksofdoom

We released 200 (50 hens 150 cocks) adult birds in March and I don't see that many adult birds around now at the moment. Although foxes don't seem to be that plentiful either so I wonder what's happening to them.

dicky82

ye im only getting my info from a third party but i was told that if buzzards are in high numbers they have to hunt as the competition for food is greater, dumb pheasant makes an easy lunch.

Feargal as Luimneach

dicky82 wrote: »

ye im only getting my info from a third party but i was told that if buzzards are in high numbers they have to hunt as the competition for food is greater, dumb pheasant makes an easy lunch.

Buzzard are not in good/high numbers in this country 350 pairs compared to 30,000-41,000 pairs in the UK.

Diet of buzzards consists primarily small mammals 70-98%, birds between 3-24%, amphibians 3-11%. Insects and worms can not be recorded.

Buzzards are not fast hunters so their bird prey consists largely of young and newly fledged individuals, particularly members of crow family, starlings, finches, buntings and to a very lesser extent chicks of pheasants and domestic fowls..

In period October-February carrion can be quite important as part of diet. Buzzards are strong enough to take prey weighing up to 500grms. Anything in excess of this is taken as carrion or is killed when it is in a much weakened condition.

Alchemist2

was out again this afternoon roughly 10/12 mile from my sighting this morning and saw two more birds but these were brown and white, again they were pretty big but not as big as what i saw this morn could they be young buzzards?? i wonder if there the figures you quote fergal are up to date because thats 7 birds in two places, not to mention what others may be around the county if any??:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Did it look like this?

deeksofdoom

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Did it look like this?

Or this, a red kite, these things are enormous

marlin vs

I was running the dog's this morning and saw 3 Buzzard's, I met more pheasant's today than I have ever met, and a heap of snipe,(usually I don't see so many untill about the 12th of this month.) so I don't see much harm in them, it seem's very early for so much snipe so hopefully it's going to be a great season for the migratory bird's,and loads of berries on the Holly bushes.

macadam

At least half a dozen buzzards around us as well and i beleive there was sighting of a pair of hen harriers, seen a guy one evening beyond a bog of mine thought it was poachers but he was a photographer watching the harriers coming in to land, there is also what some would call an eagle owl and by jaysus are they big.

Pheasants seem to be very scarce around us this year also, but i put it down to the harsh weather earlier this year which probably killed of a lot of wild birds.

After viewing the above pics it seem like they are red kites, they seem black with a white area under the wing they also soar real high and squel all day, they took two hares last week one hare was squealing for half an hour and about 15 magpies diving in and out of the field then I seen one of these birds flying off after the squealing stopped, had to be a hare as there are no rabbits about here.

Alchemist2

Yes Tack the two in the afternoon looked the same as the picture but the ones this morning were chocolate coloured.. never even thought to google birds of prey ireland:rolleyes: must do... so is that a young buzzard inthe pic ?

Birdnuts

Buzzards main prey items are carrion, rats and rabbits. Plenty of buzzards around these parts plus pheasents had a great year going on the number knocking around ATM:)

Birdnuts

dicky82 wrote: »

has anyone noticed a decline in the numbers in pheasants as the increase of buzzards in most areas?? there was a thing about it on the fieldsports britan channel where game keepers were looking for a licence to reduce buzzard numbers in certain areas.

Theres no evidence to support your contention - as Feargal points out there too slow to trouble fast flying gamebirds and much prefer stuff like carrion and rats. Rats by the way are far more of a menace to gamebirds given the damage they do to ground nesting birds as egg thieves and all round nest thieves.

PS: I saw that storey too in the UK and it turned out that the gamekeepers in question couldn't prove their case when asked by the authorities - I wouldn't like to see the level of wildlife crime spiral out of control the way it has in the UK when it comes to illegal bird of prey persecution in places like Scotland and the North of England:mad:

Birdnuts

Alchemist2 wrote: »

Was out on ground this morning which i am about to let some cocks out out on next week and as i approached a gap in the ditch this big f..k off bird of prey as calm as you like flew off the tree right in front of me this this was huge brown in colour with tallons as big as me hand i aint messin ive never been as close to one in my life anyhoo again id hunted the ground i could hear this screech when i looked down on the field of beet here was this bird flyin just above the beet tops i think the ba....d was hunting for pheasants..not two mins after he left the field there were four more of these things up in the elements i mean did some thick fooker let these things out?? i was planning on putting out feeders today before i let out the birds but surley it will be like an open invite for these birds to an easy dinner/dinners... any advice anyone... i know ppl say these birds dont kill live prey.. but i aint so sure... this lad in the beet field meant business:mad::mad:

So you saw a buzzard and assumed he was up to no good - based on what evidence

No6

If you want to see birds of prey close up go to eagles Flying in Ballymote Co Sligo, he rehabilates injured native birds of prey as well as keeping some of the more excotic oness, well worth seeing and can help you identify our native birds of prey, he german guy who runs it will also be able to tell you what birds eat what and might be able to reassure on the phesant issue!!. Bring the family its amazing!!! The Game shows also tend to have falconry displays the lad in Birr this year had a red kite, a very distintive and beautiful bird!!!

Birdnuts

macadam wrote: »

, there is also what some would call an eagle owl and by jaysus are they big.

.

Sounds like an escaped falconry bird

FOXHUNTER1

Two seasons ago myself and my young lad witnessed a buzzard taking a full grown cock pheasant on a stubble beside my house.
When he circled over the pheasant the cock crouched on the ground and the buzzard took him out in a flash.
I spoke to several people about it when I was over at the midlands game fair and some tried to tell me buzzards dont hunt at all and others told me they hunt the same as any other raptor.
From my experience they do hunt and they are very effective at it too.

Birdnuts

No6 wrote: »

If you want to see birds of prey close up go to eagles Flying in Ballymote Co Sligo, he rehabilates injured native birds of prey as well as keeping some of the more excotic oness, well worth seeing and can help you identify our native birds of prey, he german guy who runs it will also be able to tell you what birds eat what and might be able to reassure on the phesant issue!!. Bring the family its amazing!!! The Game shows also tend to have falconry displays the lad in Birr this year had a red kite, a very distintive and beautiful bird!!!

Thanx for that - such things should be thought and demonstrated to school children etc. so as to avoid damaging myths and hysteria gaining a foothold, the very thing that wiped out most of our native raptors in the past:(

macadam

I was told by a few bird watchers there are eagle owls in a large estate behind me.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Two seasons ago myself and my young lad witnessed a buzzard taking a full grown cock pheasant on a stubble beside my house.
When he circled over the pheasant the cock crouched on the ground and the buzzard took him out in a flash.
I spoke to several people about it when I was over at the midlands game fair and some tried to tell me buzzards dont hunt at all and others told me they hunt the same as any other raptor.
From my experience they do hunt and they are very effective at it too.

based on my exparience(20 years observing buzzards and their prey items), the research thats out there and what other hunters have told me, that would be a very rare event. To be honest given the number of pheasents killed by foxes, mink, bad weather etc. not to mention the number killed on local roads - buzzards would be the least of their problems

bryaner

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Or this, a red kite, these things are enormous

Aren't they beautiful..

Alchemist2

Well the way i see it is pretty simple there is a food chain and we are at the top and everything else has its spot on it... these birds of prey haven't featured in this food chain for quite some time so therefore the main predators for game here were also on foot.. game birds that never had an issue with raptors dropping out of the sky to kill them would hardly be looking up for danger, hence an easy meal for one of the raptors... according to David Attenborough once a species is introduced to a food chain it takes roughly 100 years for nature to right the balance.... now birdnuts ive just been chatting to a bloke earlier who maintains that on several occasions this year hes walked up to his pheasant pen not too far from where i was this morning and found the birds in question on the top net of the said pen trying to get in he never said if he had any dead birds in the pen:rolleyes:

bryaner

Birdnuts wrote: »

based on my exparience(20 years observing buzzards and their prey items), the research thats out there and what other hunters have told me, that would be a very rare event. To be honest given the number of pheasents killed by foxes, mink, bad weather etc. not to mention the number killed on local roads - buzzards would be the least of their problems

My mate drives a train and is fcuked up running across pheasents..

Birdnuts

macadam wrote: »

I was told by a few bird watchers there are eagle owls in a large estate behind me.

A gamekeeper I know from Meath was telling me that he spoke to a shooter/hunter in Sweden who told him that Eagle owls there actually eat large numbers of other birds of prey, notably buzzards which apparently are easy to catch because there quiet slow.

I know Eagle owls are now breeding in the UK in very small numbers but hadn't heard of them breeding here before. There pretty awsome birds and can take anything up to the seize of a fox:)

FOXHUNTER1

Birdnuts wrote: »

based on my exparience(20 years observing buzzards and their prey items), the research thats out there and what other hunters have told me, that would be a very rare event. To be honest given the number of pheasents killed by foxes, mink, bad weather etc. not to mention the number killed on local roads - buzzards would be the least of their problems

Rare or not it does happen but people still try to put it down our necks that buzzards don't hunt when clearly (to me anyway) they do.

Birdnuts

Alchemist2 wrote: »

Well the way i see it is pretty simple there is a food chain and we are at the top and everything else has its spot on it... these birds of prey haven't featured in this food chain for quite some time so therefore the main predators for game here were also on foot.. game birds that never had an issue with raptors dropping out of the sky to kill them would hardly be looking up for danger, hence an easy meal for one of the raptors... according to David Attenborough once a species is introduced to a food chain it takes roughly 100 years for nature to right the balance.... now birdnuts ive just been chatting to a bloke earlier who maintains that on several occasions this year hes walked up to his pheasant pen not too far from where i was this morning and found the birds in question on the top net of the said pen trying to get in he never said if he had any dead birds in the pen:rolleyes:

Well buzzards have recolonized(they weren't introduced!!) here from NI where they returned to breed after a 50 year absence in the 1930's - so given that after 80 years NI still has plenty of good pheasent/gamebird shooting, I doubt our pheasents in the republic will be too troubled compared to the other much more significant hazards they face from the likes of mink, road deaths etc.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Rare or not it does happen but people still try to put it down our necks that buzzards don't hunt when clearly (to me anyway) they do.

I'm not arguing with you - I'm just saying its not a significant cause of mortality to gamebirds compared to mink, fox, rat predation, road deaths, bad weather etc.

PS: I think birds of prey are as much a friend of gamekeepers as farmers in this country given the number of rats, mink, crows, magpies etc. they account for in the averge year:) - Indeed the first Golden Eagle chicks born in Ireland last year for nearly 100 years were fed a diet that consisted of fox cubs and crows among other things

FOXHUNTER1

Heres a link to a study done in the uk you'll notice that 4.3% of pheasant kills were down to buzzards compared to 3.2% for foxes.http://www.jstor.org/pss/827321

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Heres a link to a study done in the uk you'll notice that 4.3% of pheasant kills were down to buzzards compared to 3.2% for foxes.http://www.jstor.org/pss/827321

Thanx for that FH - some interesting revelations going on this study(based on gamekeeper returns)

"Among 20 725 juvenile pheasants released in 1994-95, gamekeepers attributed 4·3% of deaths to buzzards, 0·7% to owls, 0·6% to sparrowhawks, 3·2% to foxes and 0·5% to other mammals"


Thats an amazingly small number of birds lost to birds of prey in general. So over 94% of losses are due to "other" factors":eek:

The study also says that simple design steps like removing overhanging branches around pens virtually eliminates this source of loss

Birdnuts

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A253112.pdf

To save people time the important bit is

"a study designed to assess levels of game bird predation by raptors
in general were found to be on average of the order of 1-2%, and exceptionally 5%"

(BASC).

The quote was based on

"Birds of Prey and Pheasants at Release Pens. A Practical Guide for Game

Managers and Gamekeepers. BASC."

Which ties in well with the findings of the the study FH mentioned ie. predation by raptors on gamebirds is tiny/negligiable compared to other sources of losses like bad weather, road deaths, mink etc.:)

LostCovey

Alchemist2 wrote: »

i mean did some thick fooker let these things out??

The Buzzards? No!

The Pheasants? No comment

LostCovey

dicky82

birdnuts, i dont know enough about it to claim my comments are fact. my info was from a third party. but i would value that sources opinion.

theres no doubt that watching buzzards is hypnotic and soething ive come to enjoy, and to be honest in the last year ive seen nearly two dozen of them near me and surrounding areas. hope they stick around.

mr fox and mr motor car are the real culprits in fezzies demise but it was just something i was asking as wanted to get some feed back from lads who are out and about.

on the topic of the eagle owl. both me and a pal have seen what we beleived to be a massive owl on two occasions. not claiming it was an eagle owl but it was huge and deffo an owl. have only seen it the twice though.

Half-cocked

We had 2 buzzards roosting in a tall tree growing in our pheasant pen a few years back. I can't say we lost a single bird to the buzzards. We bought our poults in at 6 to 8 weeks old, so they would have been small enough for the buzzards if they did want to eat them.

J. Ramone

Yesterday a peregrine was feeding on a pigeon in an open field beside my house. A pair of buzzards got in on the act no doubt picking up on the action from the racket every crow, magpie and jay in the vicinity was making. The peregrine was able to scare off any grey crows that stepped too close by squaring up. When the buzzards moved in the peregrine took to the air and swooped on one of the buzzards taking a couple of feathers off his back. When it had the chance one of the buzzards took the renains of the kill to the top of a large beech tree.

I'd be glad to lose a few pheasants just to see a sight like that once in a while. The truth is that the only raptors efficient at killing game birds in Ireland are the scarce hen harrier and not quite as scarce peregrine. For me the countryside is much more than a shooting resource.

Feargal as Luimneach

dicky82 wrote: »

birdnuts, i dont know enough about it to claim my comments are fact. my info was from a third party. but i would value that sources opinion.

theres no doubt that watching buzzards is hypnotic and soething ive come to enjoy, and to be honest in the last year ive seen nearly two dozen of them near me and surrounding areas. hope they stick around.

mr fox and mr motor car are the real culprits in fezzies demise but it was just something i was asking as wanted to get some feed back from lads who are out and about.

on the topic of the eagle owl. both me and a pal have seen what we beleived to be a massive owl on two occasions. not claiming it was an eagle owl but it was huge and deffo an owl. have only seen it the twice though.

Was most likely a long eared owl which you saw.

Feargal as Luimneach

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Heres a link to a study done in the uk you'll notice that 4.3% of pheasant kills were down to buzzards compared to 3.2% for foxes.http://www.jstor.org/pss/827321

The survey doesn't take into account the pheasants taken as carrion! The vast majority of them would be eaten this way!!

Birdnuts

J. Ramone wrote: »

Yesterday a peregrine was feeding on a pigeon in an open field beside my house. A pair of buzzards got in on the act no doubt picking up on the action from the racket every crow, magpie and jay in the vicinity was making. The peregrine was able to scare off any grey crows that stepped too close by squaring up. When the buzzards moved in the peregrine took to the air and swooped on one of the buzzards taking a couple of feathers off his back. When it had the chance one of the buzzards took the renains of the kill to the top of a large b,eech tree.

I'd be glad to lose a few pheasants just to see a sight like that once in a while. The truth is that the only raptors efficient at killing game birds in Ireland are the scarce hen harrier and not quite as scarce peregrine. For me the countryside is much more than a shooting resource.

In terms of peregrines as your storey suggests, their main prey is pigeons. Thats why their popular with farmers and increasingly with city authorities trying to battle the menace of feral pigeons. As we speak their is one installed around the central bank in Dublin putting manners on the city pigeons:)

Hen Harriers and pheasants(indeed most game birds shot in this country) don't overlap in terms of habitat(high moors v lowland farmland) so its rarely an issue in that case. Grouse and Hen harriers do overlap but by far the main factor impacting Grouse numbers in this country has been the massive destruction of their habitat thats taken place in the last 70 years or so as discussed on various threads here

PS: My contacts in Wicklow NP told me only last week that Grouse there have had a bumper breeding season thanx to one of the driest springs in 80 years - just goes to show what a massive factor weather can be for game birds in the breeding season, indeed probably all ground nesting birds including Corncrakes etc.:)

Birdnuts

Half-cocked wrote: »

We had 2 buzzards roosting in a tall tree growing in our pheasant pen a few years back. I can't say we lost a single bird to the buzzards. We bought our poults in at 6 to 8 weeks old, so they would have been small enough for the buzzards if they did want to eat them.

I only twigged this last night after sleeping on it - what type of vermin is attracted to both pheasant and poultry feedlots given all that tasty grain-based feed lying about??: Rodents

Virtually every such feedlot I know has had problems with rodents at one time or the other which given buzzards main prey(small mammals) would explain why they would on the very odd occasion check out such areas:)

mallards

I have up to six buzzards on my ground at any one time. One of them loves to spend it's time sitting in the scotch pines beside the covered pheasant release pen. Outside the hunting season I place a ladder trap for crows here and have had to pull the bugger out of it twice as he went in and killed the crows in it for me!
I've had to pull his old buddy the sparrowhawk out of the release pen twice also as he found a way in through a hole in the net that an unfortunate magpie had found earlier.
All in all I can't honestly say I've seen or have any evidence for these birds having killed any birds this year apart from one released grey partridge that had managed to get pinned to the outside of the pen sides making an easy meal of itself (possibly the sparrowhawk?) Then again I knew this would happen so I released a few extra to compensate. Bird of prey numbers have stayed pretty constant here these past few years and the game birds have plenty of cover to hide. Maybe I'm lucky, but I don't have any problem with them.

Mallards

Donalmit

Had this visitor to my pheasant pen last week. I am not up to date with Irish birds of prey so wondering if someone could name him for me?

Birdnuts

Donalmit wrote: »

Had this visitor to my pheasant pen last week. I am not up to date with Irish birds of prey so wondering if someone could name him for me?

Hard to make out based on that picture but it looks like a female sparrowhawk:) - she looks pretty small too next to that big cock pheasant. She was probably attracted in by smaller birds like sparrows, finches etc. sharing your gamebird feed:)


Indeed many people who feed birds in their garden will be familiar with sparrowhawks paying a visit to check out small birds like that!!

See below for a good pic of what I mean

http://www.sligobirding.com/SparrowhawkClogfhermoreLilianCasey080910sm.jpg

pedroeibar1

In my experience the buzzards - which are now down as far as Kildare - scare the crap out of pheasant and duck and drive them off a shoot.

There was a very good study done a few years ago - 'Released pheasant fate' by Clare Turner & Rufus Sage. That study was on several thousand birds and used 25-30 radio-tagged pheasant from six pens on six estates in S. England in each of three years.

Results were:
Early pen death 3.5% (disease, accidents, etc.)
Shot within estate 30.5%
Shot off estate 7%
Predated/scavenged before shooting 23% ( Predated- = killed , mostly by foxes. Scavenged = died of other causes before being eaten by foxes.)
Predated/scavenged after shooting began 13%
Other death 7%(mostly road kills)
Survived 16%

Also they said ’Of the 486 radio-tagged birds, we think three were killed by raptors.’


Rs
P.

dicky82

hmmm it would make you think that if an estate with full time game keepers and i would reckon a serious dunt on the foxes is only getting a return of 30.5% what are the likes of us part-time pheasant rearers getting on our releases.

Birdnuts

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

In my experience the buzzards - which are now down as far as Kildare - scare the crap out of pheasant and duck and drive them off a shoot.

There was a very good study done a few years ago - 'Released pheasant fate' by Clare Turner & Rufus Sage. That study was on several thousand birds and used 25-30 radio-tagged pheasant from six pens on six estates in S. England in each of three years.

Results were:
Early pen death 3.5% (disease, accidents, etc.)
Shot within estate 30.5%
Shot off estate 7%
Predated/scavenged before shooting 23% ( Predated- = killed , mostly by foxes. Scavenged = died of other causes before being eaten by foxes.)
Predated/scavenged after shooting began 13%
Other death 7%(mostly road kills)
Survived 16%

Also they said ’Of the 486 radio-tagged birds, we think three were killed by raptors.’


Rs
P.

Most shoots I know have plenty of cover for game compared to much of the surrounding farmland so I would assume if pheasants feel vulnerable they would tend to hang around a shoot area that provided this cover - thats my experience anyway of what happens with the duck ponds and pheasant shoots that the Blessington Game Conservancy operate up the Northern end of the Blessington lakes.


PS: Crazy numbers of mallards there ATM:D

homerhop

dicky82 wrote: »

hmmm it would make you think that if an estate with full time game keepers and i would reckon a serious dunt on the foxes is only getting a return of 30.5% what are the likes of us part-time pheasant rearers getting on our releases.

When we started rearing birds we got Fiach Dowling to look at our set up and give us some advice, he maintained that if you get a 40% return on birds you release it is a sucessful season.

Birdnuts

homerhop wrote: »

When we started rearing birds we got Fiach Dowling to look at our set up and give us some advice, he maintained that if you get a 40% return on birds you release it is a sucessful season.

I'm not surprised - I remember visiting a chap in the open prison next to Shelton Abbey in Wicklow after they released a load of pen reared birds. They were behaving like a bunch of clueless Rhode Island Reds - 2 had already come a cropper on the main road outside:(

homerhop

It was a ball park figure, I had a pen with 600 birds in it, the first week I lost over 20 birds just to stress, then you could say one a day to sparrow hawks, gape worms took a few and as they got older there were always a few that were picking. Had to send one away for an autopsy, birds had caught a virus.Even though we hit the vermin hard they still took a toll. So all in all I would roughly say out of the 600 birds I started with by the time the season had started lost over 100 birds out of that one pen

Birdnuts

homerhop wrote: »

So all in all I would roughly say out of the 600 birds I started with by the time the season had started lost over 100 birds out of that one pen

Yep - its a labour of love that will only get tougher for most shoots given that the economy appears to be going the way of Greece:(

macadam

Today (saturday) I seen a buzzard trying to take a herron of a bog and what a racket they made, so dont tell me buzzards wont take a pheasant.