Postcodes carry a hefty price tag

caseyann

The news that PA Consulting, the company that recommended the introduction of a postal code system, has been awarded the €560,000 contract to oversee its establishment raises a number of questions.

What can be gauged in monetary terms, however, is the cost of implementing such a system -- between €10m and €15m.

And is it throwing it away now in this time?
They should leave all these things till they fix what is broken.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/postcodes-carry-a-hefty-price-tag-2362036.html

johndaman66

I happen to think there would be real and tangible benefits to introducing a postcode system in the Republic of Ireland and it should have being done a long time ago. There have being a number of times in the past when mail for people of the same surname has being dropped of at this household by stand in postmen and conversly so our mail has gone to other households and any of the families I'm talking about certainly aren't newcomers to the area.

I find that trying to find peoples houses can be a bloody nightmare if its an area I'm unfamiliar with. At best Irish peoples directions could be described as cack...practically everything seems to be "about a mile out the road"....And NO I'm not from the area so I don't have a clue where Tom Dillane has the site for sale or where Patsy Murphys shop which closed five years ago is either. Ok, my little rant for the day is now over! With postcodes and GPS this often painful procress would be much simplified

Granted €10 - €15 million is probably yet another cost the country cant afford right now as there is not 2 brown halfpennys to rub together but having said that I do believe it should at the very least be put on the wishlist. It wouldn't be too long before the benefit accruing would outweigh what I imagine would be a pretty much one off cost.

RATM

Another Spindo article :rolleyes:

Spindo

Do we really need country-wide postcodes, or is this another expensive and seemingly irrelevant Green initiative? Don't we already have postcodes in the only city large enough to require them? Is our Dublin-born Green Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan so out of touch with the rest of the country that he believes postal staff are no longer familiar with the areas in which they work? Are the days gone when a letter addressed to Paddy Murphy, Townland, County, would arrive at its destination?

Do we really need postcodes? Hmm, maybe the question should be how much is it costing our economy to not have postcodes? Lots I'd say, deliverymen of internet goods waste hours every week looking for the Kelly's house 'just out the road from Hackballscross'. Aside from that a post code system will ensure An Post can process more letters and quicker.
Or how about the fire brigade getting to your house quicker because they can pinpoint it to with 5m?


We are the only country in Europe not to have postcodes, even Monaco with only 35,000 residents has them ffs.

Spindo

Mr Ryan says the system will be worth an estimated €22m to the Irish economy in the medium term. It is not clear how he arrives at this figure, but the real benefits of such a system, he continued, could not be gauged in monetary terms.

What can be gauged in monetary terms, however, is the cost of implementing such a system -- between €10m and €15m.

Now it just gets laughable and the whole jist of the article unravels. The Spindo realises their FF pals are in the doldrums so they help out y attacking the Greens this weekend rather than the chief architects of Ireland's demise- their own lot.

In the space of two paragraphs the 'journalist' chastises Eamon Ryan for not explaining how he arrived at the 22m figure. Then s/he talks out of the other side of their mouth (see the FF style here peeps?) by saying that the cost is going to be between 10 and 15m without explaining how they arrived at that figure or a source of any kind whatsoever.

FF Hypocrites. Avoid.

johndaman66

RATM wrote: »

Or how about the fire brigade getting to your house quicker because they can pinpoint it to with 5m?

Overlooked that consideration myself RATM, peoples lifes may be saved in certain situations as a result of having postcodes. Add to that more efficient crime detection and prevention.

ei.sdraob

RATM wrote: »

Do we really need postcodes? Hmm, maybe the question should be how much is it costing our economy to not have postcodes? Lots I'd say

In order to implement property taxes the govt needs a property database (on its way apparently) and postcodes ... that will cost you and the economy

its not the goodness of their hearts or care for delivery/emergency people that postcodes are being considered for by the govt

mikemac

I've lived in Belfast, sure just copy what they have.

Or I am just missing an easier option?

johndaman66

feelingstressed wrote: »

I've lived in Belfast, sure just copy what they have.

Or I am just missing an easier option?

I don't think you are missing an easier option feelingstressed. In theory I would imagine it should be hassle free project I would imagine. But remember your not talking about Northern Ireland anymore! Something like this sets the infamous e-voting project ringing around my head.

thebman

feelingstressed wrote: »

I've lived in Belfast, sure just copy what they have.

Or I am just missing an easier option?

We have two private post code systems already

Loc8 and GoCodes.

We just need to pick one :rolleyes:

amen

we shouldn't be using a propriety postal code system.

But we also should not be using a made up system. Postal codes should be based on National Grid thus allowing anyone to find the address without having to decode the address

lmimmfn

dont see why we cant just use GPS coordinates and be done with it

RATM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

In order to implement property taxes the govt needs a property database (on its way apparently) and postcodes ... that will cost you and the economy

its not the goodness of their hearts or care for delivery/emergency people that postcodes are being considered for by the govt

Well it won't cost me as I don't own property in this country

But that's besides the point- the reasons postcodes are being brought in is to facilitate more efficient logistics for companies and postal services. There are dozens of good reasons to introduce postal codes and its just surprising how much we are behind the rest of the world in this. Its time to catch up.

ei.sdraob

RATM wrote: »

Well it won't cost me as I don't own property in this country

But that's besides the point- the reasons postcodes are being brought in is to facilitate more efficient logistics for companies and postal services. There are dozens of good reasons to introduce postal codes and its just surprising how much we are behind the rest of the world in this. Its time to catch up.

well if you dont own property then you rent (or live off family), landlords will pass on any property taxes

so yea itll affect everyone one way or another

as for logistics, the post office remarked many of times that they are doing just fine, as for deliveries i had to direct several delivery trucks over last few weeks to me new house out the sticks, usually goes something like this "...2km past the school turn at a church, go up a hill and its the house with feature xyz..." who needs postcodes

mikemac

Turn right after the school, pass the church and we are the house with the Massey Ferguson outside

The postman can find us, hope to never find out if an ambulance can.

All credit due to postmen in rural areas.
They know every house, every family and all the childrens names.
Plus the pretentious people who give their houses names.
So the postmen generally get a tip every Christmas. Or at least a tin of Roses

More knowledge required then delivering to estates

And I've gone way off topic!

garydubh

This time last year Eamon Ryan announced Postcodes would be starting straight away - but it was all forgotten about again until now.

Now 1 year later what was supposed to have happened before Christmas 2009 has happened in the form of PA consulting has been appointed to advise the Minister on what to do next. (the tender competition took 2 attempts and a period of 8 months!!!)

WE ARE NO NEARER A NATIONAL POSTCODE BEING IMPLEMENTED:
PA Consulting was engaged officially on 27th Sept 2010: The services to be provided include advising on the design and management of a selection process for a party or parties to implement, to maintain and to run a national postcode system and to ensure the delivery of a working postcode system
so to be very clear it will not be PA consulting who is implementing that national postcode - that is aanother big step yet to come.!

PA Consulting was engaged for this purpose twice before and now they are going to consult on what postcode and what tender process and then oversee whatever happens therefater.

Once again, statements that a National Postcode would be implemented by early 2011 are without foundation and completely unrealistic. This is a legacy of the statement made by the Minister in Sept 2009 which assumed work would have started in 2009 and assumed that the process to re-appoint advisors would not take 12 months from then to achieve!

The Process Going Forward if it happens may look like this:
1. Consultation by PA - Oct/Nov 2010
2. Recommendations - Dec/Jan 2010/11
3. If agreement and finances available: Tender started Feb 2011
4. Tender Close - end April 2011
5. If No General Election (question during PA tender indicated that if Government changed then the process would not continue) Tenderer Appointed - June/July 2011.
6. + 12 months of preparation work - Mid 2012 before any National postcode would appear.

Also if PA consulting decide to recommend proceeding with the Government proposal (unlikley given Oireachtas report, Cost and lack of functionality and support), it will not be useable by the logistics/tourist industries as it will not be a capable of identifying individual properties and as per their own report in 2008 and Version 1's detailed analysis which emphasised that the resolution of non unique addresses in Ireland is a critical part of any proposed postcode. So It will have been 7 years of work and this still will not have been achieved. The current "ABC 123" model still for consideration now by PA will not be useable on SatNavs or iphones and therefore never usable by someone in a van trying to find a property to deliver a service!!!

The Minister's reference to a "Locational" system is misleading - he has now conceded that the centre of a postcode area will have a geographic coordinates - but this just means that if it were useable on a SatNav the van driver would be guided to the middle of the lake about which a postcode area containing up to 50 properties is dispersed!!

The Oireachtas report published back in April 2010 and signed by MJ Nolan TD of FF indicated that this was the wrong approach and we can only assume that PA will confirm this before they make their recommendations on how to proceed to the Minister in January coming.

Also lets look a little closer at the implementation costs being quoted

A letter to DCENR on 23rd Septmber 2008 by PA Consulting very definitely identifies €52 million in costs regarding the introduction of Poscodes as follows:

Implementation Costs

Postcode holder

€14,321,531

An Post

€27,477,310

Postal Private Sector

€1,391,755

Banking

€1,078,035

Utilities

€434,726

Retail

€2,263,854

Telecommunication

€700,213

Insurance

€807,581

Government services

€4,392,652

representing a total of: €52,867,657

So even if we take out the costs that will be borne by private enterprise (bank costs left in as they are mainly state owned) - the cost will be €48.5 million approx and this is for a system which according to the Oireachtas report will not satisfy modern requirements and will not be useable by our logistics sector; even a tourist driving around Ireland will still not be able to find a B&B or tourist attraction with it. Of course, these figures do not consider the costs related with ongoing maintenance and the potential realted litigation when someone's house at the outskirts of a town is given an "ABC" code which associates it with a country area rather that the town itself. (common in the UK and USA with this 1950's type solution)


And this is happening against the back drop of a real "Locational" Code which was introduced by Loc8 and Garmin back in July, which is capable of identifying individaul properties, including individual entrances to properties and is already being used in the logistics sector.

On Monday 27th Septmber 2010 last Eamon Ryan TD delivered the key note address at an EU conference in Dublin on the digital agenda. His address fully supported this agenda, part of which sets out to ensure that that 50% of the population will purchase on line by 2015. However, he failed to recognise that the postcode that his Department is planning will actual undermine this plan rather than support it. A postcode that cannot assist a courier to deliver goods purchased off the web to the 40% of the population which has a non unique address will not in any way asist web based sales.

In the meantime Loc8 (and Irish Company based in Crosshaven in Cork delivering up to 20 jobs) and Garmin have already provided the solution and is already supporting the potential for growth in the web retailing sector and up to 20% in fuel savings for up to 400,000 commercial vehicles delivering goods and services via Irish roads!

It is very possible that Loc8 would make Loc8 Codes available to the state at a cost which is only a tiny fraction of the current proposal.

So PA consulting's appointment is only to act as advisors - which they have done on this subject at least twice before!

ednwireland

i thought an post already used its own system why nit use that (if thats true)

tman

Speaking as someone who works for a company who specialise in postcodes, Ireland already has a fully working postal code system which is used internally by An Post... How can implementing something that already exists and works cost that bloody much!!!?!

ei.sdraob

@garydubh

so the Bloody Greens are responsible for this waste of tax payers money

i suppose whats 50 million when you signed as many billions over to NAMA/Anglo :rolleyes:

kevteljeur

At the risk of sounding like one of the tin-foil hat brigade, I remember reading that one of the bigger side-effects of introducing a rational post-code system in Ireland, would be to make complete arse of the value of Dublin's most expensive property; because you would no longer be able to reliably decide if the premium for a house was worth, for example, being in Dublin 6. After the changeover, you would have to decide if the premium was worth being in FHGF3746, or perhaps just near to far more prestigious KG82648GH.

Naturally, you could see how some well-placed lobbying might put a scheme like that on hold until now, when it will conversely allow the state to more efficiently extract taxes for all manner of things, and the property value aspect is less advantageous to a potential lobbyist.


Edit: I do think it's unfortunate that this has been labelled as another Green spend; this is something that it is ludicrous that the country doesn't have. I think it could be done for cheaper, and I think it should be done at the cost of something else (Metro North? hello?) but it really should have been done years ago. More will be spent on less useful things, sadly.



k

DublinWriter

tman wrote: »

Speaking as someone who works for a company who specialise in postcodes, Ireland already has a fully working postal code system which is used internally by An Post... How can implementing something that already exists and works cost that bloody much!!!?!

Is that Geodirectory?

tman

Yep, GeoDirectory.
Having said that, the most up to date version of it we have is from 2005....

garydubh

tman wrote: »

Yep, GeoDirectory.
Having said that, the most up to date version of it we have is from 2005....

Just a note - GeoDircetory does not specialise in Postcodes - it is a precise address database that defines the location of properties in X,Y coordinates. If also has a unique code identifier - howvere that code is sequential and not geographic. Therefore as very clearly stated in the Dail, the GeoDirectory does not deliver a Postcode.

However, there is no doubt that it would form the basis for any postcode system. However in the tender comptetion that PA has just won a related question was asked and it was noted by DCENR that they had no agreemnt with An Post to be able to use Geodirectory and that would have to be negotiated by whoever won the contract.

So will An Post allow others use GeoDirectory ( over which it has copyright) to develop a postcode which will be used by competitors to undermine An Post's position in the market?? ... this has yet to be seen !!! Is this what the €27 million quoted as required to pay An Post in PA's analysis in 2008 is for?

Scofflaw

Edit: I do think it's unfortunate that this has been labelled as another Green spend; this is something that it is ludicrous that the country doesn't have. I think it could be done for cheaper, and I think it should be done at the cost of something else (Metro North? hello?) but it really should have been done years ago. More will be spent on less useful things, sadly.

Sure - now it will be opposed by some people simply because they see it as a Green project, irrespective of its merits. That's what makes politics such a zero-sum game sometimes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob

Scofflaw wrote: »

Sure - now it will be opposed by some people simply because they see it as a Green project, irrespective of its merits. That's what makes politics such a zero-sum game sometimes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

As many have mentioned there are already various schemes available, why not adopt them instead of spending 53 million on new one?

how many schools with port-a-cabins can be replaced with more solid extensions for that money?

seamus

garydubh wrote: »

Just a note - GeoDircetory does not specialise in Postcodes - it is a precise address database that defines the location of properties in X,Y coordinates. If also has a unique code identifier - howvere that code is sequential and not geographic. Therefore as very clearly stated in the Dail, the GeoDirectory does not deliver a Postcode.

*sigh*

Why do they need to overcomplicate these things? They have a database of addresses and GPS co-ordinates for each address. They also have a couple of providers who can translate all of those GPS co-ordinates into a post code.

So pick a provider and then translate all of your GPS co-ordinates into postcodes. Now you have a database of post codes, home addresses and GPS co-ordinates. Publish it. Send a letter to every home and business in the country telling them what their post code is. Publish an open API that allows anyone anywhere to input an address and get a post code back. This will allow companies to retroactively update their client and vendor lists with post codes.
Give every postman a small GPS handset which incorporates the postcodes and lets them find any post code.

The total cost of software, support, development and hardware would be less than €5 million.

Tell the entire country that post codes are going live on the 1st January and on the 1st of July, any piece of mail that doesn't have a postcode will go into a big bin for manual sorting and will take longer to arrive. Bingo-bango, problem sorted.

There isn't a single CRM or ERP system in existence that doesn't have a "post code" field so there's no reason why it would cost any company or government department very much time or money to update their database and add in post codes.

garydubh

seamus wrote: »

*sigh*

Why do they need to overcomplicate these things? They have a database of addresses and GPS co-ordinates for each address. They also have a couple of providers who can translate all of those GPS co-ordinates into a post code.

So pick a provider and then translate all of your GPS co-ordinates into postcodes. Now you have a database of post codes, home addresses and GPS co-ordinates. Publish it. Send a letter to every home and business in the country telling them what their post code is. Publish an open API that allows anyone anywhere to input an address and get a post code back. This will allow companies to retroactively update their client and vendor lists with post codes.
Give every postman a small GPS handset which incorporates the postcodes and lets them find any post code.

The total cost of software, support, development and hardware would be less than €5 million.

Tell the entire country that post codes are going live on the 1st January and on the 1st of July, any piece of mail that doesn't have a postcode will go into a big bin for manual sorting and will take longer to arrive. Bingo-bango, problem sorted.

There isn't a single CRM or ERP system in existence that doesn't have a "post code" field so there's no reason why it would cost any company or government department very much time or money to update their database and add in post codes.

Correct...........

but who owns the copyright to the address database that will be used?

seamus

We do

I know that an post charge insane amounts of cash for access to their database, but an outright appropriation of the database could be easily sorted - i.e. take the whole thing out of An post's hands.

garydubh

seamus wrote: »

We do

I know that an post charge insane amounts of cash for access to their database, but an outright appropriation of the database could be easily sorted - i.e. take the whole thing out of An post's hands.

Agree - but would you believe that in 5 years of discussion, debate and Consultants reports nobody has once mentioned what you suggest - just a comment from DCENR during the tender that PA Consulting won - that they would have to negotiate with the owner of the GeoDirectory themselves!!!

Deisekickboxing

this sounds like the scandelous e-voting sage all over again and seemingly with similar costs involved.........

Forget protesting about the shafting were getting in taxes!!

non compliance is the only way forward at this stage!

jimmycrackcorm

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

this sounds like the scandelous e-voting sage all over again and seemingly with similar costs involved.........

Forget protesting about the shafting were getting in taxes!!

non compliance is the only way forward at this stage!

The only thing that went wrong with E-Voting is that it didn't have a paper printout as a backup. Had you been able to get a receipt of your vote and witness the same copy being dropped into the machine innards then there would have been no issue with it.

So had the machines built-in printers we could have been swiftly moving to an era whereby people could be voting for much more than elections. The next logical steps would have been internet and text voting.

As for postcodes, we've seen the costs but no-one has evaluated the potential savings to be had. Over the long term I believe the savings will outweigh the costs.

People can also argue about which type of postcode or whether or not to use a new system vs an existign or established system but the costs still are there in terms of adapting systems to

use

any system.

dunsandin

I would imagine it's money well spent, as it is required to implement both a property tax and water metering, apparently. My sources you ask? A little pixie told a friend, who told his friend, who posted it on an internet site. Its still true though. Sort of. Mainly. That, and every other bleedin first world country has had them for years, once again, we're playing a cack handed version of catch-up. Like your man in "A history of Violence" said - --"HOW do you balls that up????"

Mr Benevolent

Yet another Sindo 'ah shure it'll be grand' typical lazyIrish attitude. Every other country has them for convenience, and we need them for convenience.

dunsandin

Twenty years ago we didn't need them because the postie knew everybody. That no longer holds true, and we are no longer a nation of "locals". Cant come soon enough if you ask me.

thebman

I think Postcodes are necessity if just for the emergency services.

supermonkey

Use location coordinates.

Hoffmans

no doubt this has been pushed on by the countrys new owners,
they are hanging round here a lot letely these past few weeks clinton and blair and the rockfellas......

those poor men who fought and were murdered for a free state 96 odd years ago must be rolling in their tombs.......
to see the complete balls of a crowd that have sold it out through cronysism and greed......

something to say

amen wrote: »

we shouldn't be using a propriety postal code system.

But we also should not be using a made up system. Postal codes should be based on National Grid thus allowing anyone to find the address without having to decode the address

The loc8 codes are based on both grid and lat & long

swampgas

something to say wrote: »

The loc8 codes are based on both grid and lat & long

Lat/long based codes are ideal and allow us to bypass the bureaucracy and expense involved with a setting up a traditional postcode system. Especially as most of the lack of precision in addresses in the current system affects rural areas.

Anyone can register their own properties for Loc8 on-line. And as Loc8 codes are already supported by some recent SatNavs, it's very useful. My brother recently bought a Garmin SatNav which supported it. He needed to find an address in the rural southwest which I was able to identify using the loc8 website, texted him the code, and he found it first time.

Now it might not be so useful for actually delivering post - An Post might prefer a different system. But for deliveries, navigation, emergency services - anything that can use GPS - it is absolutely fit for purpose.

One related point - the local postie might know their way round, but there is still a lot of guesswork going on. How many guys called "Pat McCarthy" or "Seán Murphy" live in the same townland ? Lots.

later12

swampgas wrote: »

One related point - the local postie might know their way round, but there is still a lot of guesswork going on. How many guys called "Pat McCarthy" or "Seán Murphy" live in the same townland ? Lots.

Indeed, though traditionally we have tended to fashion our own unique take on postal codes in identifying such people.

In my own birthplace in rural Tipperary for example there are three Hogans with common Christian names. To distinguish them, we have the Castle Hogans, the Bawn Hogans, and the Bog Hogans - social snobbery and clarity of address to beat any modern postal code system!

SkepticOne

Someone mentioned loc8 codes. The idea behind this is good but unfortunately the algorithm is proprietary.

If the tax payer is to fund the creation of a post code system, the information upon which it is based should be made available to the public.

If it is a databased system then the database (at least the part that links it to a geographical location) should be downloadable. If it is some method of converting latitude and longitude or grid reference should be published.

Unfortunately this would rule out loc8.

swampgas

later10 wrote: »

Indeed, though traditionally we have tended to fashion our own unique take on postal codes in identifying such people.

In my own birthplace in rural Tipperary for example there are three Hogans with common Christian names. To distinguish them, we have the Castle Hogans, the Bawn Hogans, and the Bog Hogans - social snobbery and clarity of address to beat any modern postal code system!

How quaint! And yet somehow completely unsuited to the 20th century, never mind the 21st. Do on-line retailers accept "Bog Hogan" as part of the delivery address?

SkepticOne wrote: »

Someone mentioned loc8 codes. The idea behind this is good but unfortunately the algorithm is proprietary.

If the tax payer is to fund the creation of a post code system, the information upon which it is based should be made available to the public.

If it is a databased system then the database (at least the part that links it to a geographical location) should be downloadable. If it is some method of converting latitude and longitude or grid reference should be published.

Unfortunately this would rule out loc8.

I was mostly pointing out that a system based on grid references which can leverage GPS for delivery and emergency services, and leverage the web to allow people to add themselves to the database (removing the need for centralised database administration) allows us to leapfrog traditional systems such as those used in the UK.

Perhaps the government should just contract the post-code issue out to the private sector.

Veering OT:
There was another thread discussing why those starting businesses are being penalised. It's funny how a company like Loc8 is viewed with suspicion and as "another consultancy on the make", to quote one of my own acquaintances, rather than entrepreneurs who are creating something of value.

SkepticOne

swampgas wrote: »

I was mostly pointing out that a system based on grid references which can leverage GPS for delivery and emergency services, and leverage the web to allow people to add themselves to the database (removing the need for centralised database administration) allows us to leapfrog traditional systems such as those used in the UK.

Perhaps the government should just contract the post-code issue out to the private sector.

Veering OT:
There was another thread discussing why those starting businesses are being penalised. It's funny how a company like Loc8 is viewed with suspicion and as "another consultancy on the make", to quote one of my own acquaintances, rather than entrepreneurs who are creating something of value.

The basic principle of encoding coordinates is good; it is merely the proprietary nature of the algorithm that rules it out.

I've no problem with the company as such and I think something along these lines should be used rather than a database system where possible but it must be an open system.

Basically for 500,000 euros of tax payer money, an algorithm could easily be designed where coordinates are converted into post codes. There would be no need for any state agency or private company taking fees on an ongoing basis as the system would essentially be self running with no (or at least very minimal) central infrastructure required.

In fact the technical development of it should cost a lot less than that. The main cost would be coordinating with delivery companies and public services and publicising it to ensure it becomes a standard.

hiorta

Postcodes in the UK are not about accuracy and speed in mail deliveries - I still get someone else's mail regularly.
Postcodes are about social classification, giving a general indication of credit worthiness, among other things. If you thought of them as sheep markings it might help.
However, Ireland needn't use them like this.

later12

swampgas wrote: »

How quaint! And yet somehow completely unsuited to the 20th century, never mind the 21st. Do on-line retailers accept "Bog Hogan" as part of the delivery address?

Actually, yes. Of course they do.

I'm merely commenting on our survival without postal codes up until now in response to a post where somebody mentioned townlands with frequently occuring family or given names. The point is that it is not all guesswork, distinguishing identifiers can be, and are, employed.

slavetothegrind

if loc8 system is good enough surely we could buy the company for a fraction of the 52 million?

What the **** do we have a civil service of disproportionate size for when every project concieved requires a third party to advise on and implement?

We own an post ffs, TAKE their system and improve it.

this drives me mad, it's the HSE all over again.

aaaaaarrrrggghhhhh:mad:

something to say

SkepticOne wrote: »

The basic principle of encoding coordinates is good; it is merely the proprietary nature of the algorithm that rules it out.

I've no problem with the company as such and I think something along these lines should be used rather than a database system where possible but it must be an open system.

Basically for 500,000 euros of tax payer money, an algorithm could easily be designed where coordinates are converted into post codes. There would be no need for any state agency or private company taking fees on an ongoing basis as the system would essentially be self running with no (or at least very minimal) central infrastructure required.

In fact the technical development of it should cost a lot less than that. The main cost would be coordinating with delivery companies and public services and publicising it to ensure it becomes a standard.

You say that for 500,000e an algorithm could be designed, the government have already spent millions in research into postcodes so it has exceed that number. Why dont the government just accept loc8 codes as the national system, buy the rights to the algorithm for a fraction of the price that they will probably spend in the next year researching.

swampgas

later10 wrote: »

Actually, yes. Of course they do.

I'm merely commenting on our survival without postal codes up until now in response to a post where somebody mentioned townlands with frequently occuring family or given names. The point is that it is not all guesswork, distinguishing identifiers can be, and are, employed.

This is true, and works after a fashion for letters being delivered by An post. However An Post do have a vested interest in keeping all that local knowledge inside the heads of their delivery staff.

I have had huge problems with delivery companies such as DHL and UPS, whose drivers don't have local knowledge, despite the fact that they have mobile phones and can call for directions. (The abysmal state of road signage in Ireland doesn't help either, but that's an issue for another time.)

The politicians in this country like to talk about building a "smart economy", maybe they could start by bringing our postal address system out of the stone age.

SkepticOne

something to say wrote: »

You say that for 500,000e an algorithm could be designed, the government have already spent millions in research into postcodes so it has exceed that number. Why dont the government just accept loc8 codes as the national system, buy the rights to the algorithm for a fraction of the price that they will probably spend in the next year researching.

I don't have a problem with that in principle. Depends on how much they want for the rights. The important thing is that once purchased it becomes an open system.