Front Wheel Drive BMWs

-Chris-

http://www.worldcarfans.com/110100128771/bmw-to-launch-fwd-compact-model-range-in-us

New FWD model or models will come in at least 3 bodystyles and will be introduced before 2013


BMW will sell a compact, front-wheel drive model below the 1-Series in the U.S. market, according to a report by Automotive News.

BMW had previously announced that it will build a front-wheel drive model smaller than the 1-Series to be sold under the BMW badge to compete against the likes of the Audi A1 in Europe and other global markets. It would be built on a platform shared with MINI able to produce both front and all-wheel drive vehicles. Now, the Bavarian brand has confirmed that the new class of car(s) will also make it stateside.

BMW has hinted in past that the new front-wheel drive architecture will be used for more than a single model and the report refers to a "family of cars" with front-wheel drive that will be sold in the United States. BMW will not specify if they intend to launch a variety of models or a single model sold in different body styles.

"It will be a relatively big segment because we have several body styles," Ian Robertson, sales and marketing chief at BMW AG, told Auto News in an interview at the Paris motor show.

BMW has labeled this new class of vehicle the UKL.

The new front-wheel drive BMW/s will come with 4-cylinder engines in at least 3 body-style variants and will have an initial global volume of around 100,000 units. The models will be introduced before the arrival of the mega-city electric car in 2013, Robertson said.

BMW has previously released a survey in which 80 percent of 1-Series owners believed the car to be a front-wheel drive. The BMW brand is still strictly a rear-wheel drive product.

Why are BMW building a sub-1 Series sized car? Isn't that the point of the MINI?
I originally thought BMW didn't want to make a small FWD car because it would dilute the brand, I thought that was the whole point of building MINIs!

I remember hearing about a 0 Series a while ago. Is this the same thing?

Will this new car compete with MINI? Is this the end of BMW's RWD DNA (man, that's a lot of acronyms)?

BMW experts, help me make sense of this please!

Owen

It's an odd one. The city car project, project i will be FWD, but not MINI based. It'll be a carbon fibre chassis/body arrangement.

So BMW, being like all car manufacturers is now being run by Accountants who say that profitability and sustainability need to come first. They did some research (Presumably, they asked a load of clueless 520d owners who bought a 520d because they were told to down the pub) and the people they asked didn't care if BMW was FWD, or RWD. That survey opened the door for dilution of the brand, and gave someone in BMW the idea to use the MINI platform for a smaller BMW with FWD. These cars will most likely end up using the new 3 cylinder engines coming on stream too.

When? Probably 2013 IMHO. Why? Who knows. Stupid idea. But I guess Mr 520d will have his wife driving around in a 013i with the matching badge and all will be well with the world.

Tea 1000

PaintDoctor wrote: »

It's an odd one. The city car project, project i will be FWD, but not MINI based. It'll be a carbon fibre chassis/body arrangement.

So BMW, being like all car manufacturers is now being run by Accountants who say that profitability and sustainability need to come first. They did some research (Presumably, they asked a load of clueless 520d owners who bought a 520d because they were told to down the pub) and the people they asked didn't care if BMW was FWD, or RWD. That survey opened the door for dilution of the brand, and gave someone in BMW the idea to use the MINI platform for a smaller BMW with FWD. These cars will most likely end up using the new 3 cylinder engines coming on stream too.

When? Probably 2013 IMHO. Why? Who knows. Stupid idea. But I guess Mr 520d will have his wife driving around in a 013i with the matching badge and all will be well with the world.

You really have it in for poor 520d owners! Despite the 520d being the best value car by far in that price bracket.
A 0-series is silly to be fair, the 1-series is bad enough (and ugly enough).

unkel

Quality rant, PD

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I guess Mr 520d will have his wife driving around in a 013i with the matching badge and all will be well with the world.

I like that bit in particular

Owen

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You really have it in for poor 520d owners!

I do, cause 90% of them haven't a clue why they bought one. They just bought it because it's what their buddies drive, or what their neighbours drive. It's like when you get to a certain age, and suddenly, you're dressing in beige pants and light blue shirts. It's just something that's done subconsciously, without any thought.

I like a nice 520d with all the toys (Proper toys, not just the SE spec with fusion plastic artificial leather), but most are just either boring SE's, or M Sports with Leather. Exciting

unkel wrote: »

Quality rant, PD

Cheers Unkel

Anyway, back OT, I can see these things selling. When/if the recession turns around and the banks start offering credit again, people might actually want a little FWD BMW if it's in the late teens/early 20's. People who buy the MINI want a MINI and nothing else, but people who buy a 1 Series also buy Jettas, Golfs and A3's. Maybe this new car will tempt people looking at the smaller cars from other manufacturers?

Fishtits

Nothing new in this.

In 1995 I was one of many who were invited to witness A 3 series compact with a FWD motor.

All good IMHO.

adamshred

I personally found the 1 series to be cramped and looking out the back window is like looking through a tunnel so I can't imagine what this series will be like.

pburns

I think the motor industry analysts are perceiving a demand for ever smaller, more environmentally-friendly cars and - worldwide recession or no - people are ever-more brand conscious these days. Some perople would rather pay more for a micro-car with a BMW badge than slum it in a Toyota or Renault.

Personally I think BMW - maybe even more than Audi - are spreading themselves too thin and diluting the brand. 20 years ago a BMW was something to aspire to, something special. A base-spec 520d is the equivalant of an 80s Ford Scorpio or Toyota Camry. A 3-series is the equivilant of a Sierra GLX. I think that shift has diluted the brand more than the move 'downmarket' to smaller cars.

As for FWD - as long as everything from 3-series upwards is RWD I don't think it's a big issue. Slippery slope though...

Tea 1000

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I do, cause 90% of them haven't a clue why they bought one. They just bought it because it's what their buddies drive, or what their neighbours drive. It's like when you get to a certain age, and suddenly, you're dressing in beige pants and light blue shirts. It's just something that's done subconsciously, without any thought.

I like a nice 520d with all the toys (Proper toys, not just the SE spec with fusion plastic artificial leather), but most are just either boring SE's, or M Sports with Leather. Exciting

I wouldn't say it's as high as 90%. If I were in the market for a brand new car and had around that kind of money to spend, it's what I'd buy. "toys" as you call them are a waste of money in my opinion. A comfortable seat and good climate control are all I'd really look for. After that electric seats are nice to have as you can fine tune the position more easily. A nice stereo is fine, but a waste of money to spend much on as even spending €1500 on a stereo upgrade on your 5-series will still not be a patch on a good home system for significantly less than that. The night vision is the only other one I'd really like.
After that a 520d is a good car. Comfortable, handles well, very nice inside with a nice premium feel, nice looking outside, economical, 184bhp is enough for day-to-day stuff, and good re-sale value. What more do most people want?
You can rant on about 6 cylinder engines all day, but to be honest only the M5 is exciting, the 550i and 535d are brisk cars, the 523i is not. Nor is the 530i. Nor the 530d. They're quicker than the 520d, but won't blow your socks off either.
I think the real criminals of the BMW stable are the 116i/316i, ALL X5's and ALL X6's, and probably the 318i also. All of those can be bettered by looking elsewhere.
The 520d on the other hand is arguably a better car than a Superb 170bhp, an Insignia 160bhp, a Passat 170bhp, a Mondeo, and any other car in that level. Therefore, job done!
I wouldn't mind but you drive a car with a BMW 4 cylinder diesel engine, so why you think a 520d buyer is automatically an idiot is beyond me.

Owen

Tea 1000 wrote: »

so why you think a 520d buyer is automatically an idiot is beyond me.

The majority of people who buy the 520d aren't motoring enthusiasts. They're sheeple. They buy what other people have. They claim their car is an individual purchase, and exclusive, but all they actually buy when they come in the door is a standard 520d, in either SE, or M Sport standard spec, with metallic, and sometimes leather. Exciting, not really individual, and certainly not exclusive. Reminds me of the life of Brian 'You're all individuals' - 'We're all individuals!'.

Tea 1000

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The majority of people who buy the 520d aren't motoring enthusiasts. They're sheeple. They buy what other people have. They claim their car is an individual purchase, and exclusive, but all they actually buy when they come in the door is a standard 520d, in either SE, or M Sport standard spec, with metallic, and sometimes leather. Exciting, not really individual, and certainly not exclusive. Reminds me of the life of Brian 'You're all individuals' - 'We're all individuals!'.

The majority of people who buy Ferrari's aren't motoring enthusiasts either. They're wealthy snobs who like to show off.
I don't know anyone who bought a 520d because someone else had one. Anyone I've met who bought one bought it because of the reasons I listed above.
In any case I don't think knocking a car because of the majority of people who bought it is fair. Many people who bought an M5 are people who like to think they know about cars. In actual fact, they're probably people who know sweet f**k all about them. I know people who bought an M3 because all their car nut friends talk about the M3 being a great car. They just got the money for one first.

Owen

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The majority of people who buy Ferrari's aren't motoring enthusiasts either. They're wealthy snobs who like to show off.

The difference there though, is that I respect anyone who buys an exotic car.

See, I'd respect someone who bought a 530d. It's a more interesting engine than the 520d. The 520d is the Glanza of the BMW world. All show, average enough go. The 530d is better pairing of engine and car. The 535d is phenomenal in terms of torque. People who buy cars with interesting engines interest me. It says they're into their driving, and fair play to them for it.

People who buy cars with the bottom run of the ladder engines but spec it to the hilt interest me too. That tells me they love their cars, but their daily drive has no need for additional power.

I don't know anyone who bought a 520d because someone else had one. Anyone I've met who bought one bought it because of the reasons I listed above.

Where did they learn those reasons though? From their colleagues, or the bloke down the pub who had one. Irish people in general haven't a clue about cars. We do, we're online all day every day living and breathing them. Walk into a BMW showroom today and chat to someone considering a 520d. Do you think they know exactly how much horsepower's under the bonnet? Do you think they know there's more than one type of leather available? They're buying what they've been conditioned to buy.

In any case I don't think knocking a car because of the majority of people who bought it is fair. Many people who bought an M5 are people who like to think they know about cars. In actual fact, they're probably people who know sweet f**k all about them. I know people who bought an M3 because all their car nut friends talk about the M3 being a great car. They just got the money for one first.

To be fair, that's a silly argument. The M3 and M5 are the best cars that BMW make in the 3 series and 5 series product line. You don't need to know about them to understand you're buying the best available.

The most interesting man I met was an old M3 customer of mine. When the e92 M3 came out, I went to Mondello with him to test drive it. This guy was in his 50's. You could tell he didn't know the technical details about the cars, but he understood the passion. He got out on the track with his M3, and he was 12 again. That speaks volumes to me about the type of people who buy certain cars.

In general (And not in every case) - there's little passion involved in buying a 520d. It's a rational decision to buy one, not an emotional decision.

Tea 1000

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The difference there though, is that I respect anyone who buys an exotic car.

I don't unless I happen to get talking to them, then I'll know if I respect them or not.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

See, I'd respect someone who bought a 530d. It's a more interesting engine than the 520d. The 520d is the Glanza of the BMW world. All show, average enough go. The 530d is better pairing of engine and car. The 535d is phenomenal in terms of torque. People who buy cars with interesting engines interest me. It says they're into their driving, and fair play to them for it.

The 530d isn't an interesting engine to me, it's a 6 cylinder diesel which moves nicely enough. I know a few 530d owners, and they have no more interest or knowledge in cars than the 520d owners. You see not everyone looking for a 42k car can just open a second wallet and produce another 20k just so they can look all smug at the 520d owners.
I respect someone who buys something like an ST220. They're thinking outside the box. Any 5-series is very much inside the box. It's just a different spend ability scale.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

People who buy cars with the bottom run of the ladder engines but spec it to the hilt interest me too. That tells me they love their cars, but their daily drive has no need for additional power.

These people don't interest me at all. Specing a car up to the hilt for what? Anyone who paid €3,000 for a Sat Nav is a tool in my eyes. I know a guy who spend €67,000 on a 520d. He boasted on about his iPod integration. I thought to myself "What a knob. He could have had a better engine for that wad of cash".

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Where did they learn those reasons though? From their colleagues, or the bloke down the pub who had one. Irish people in general haven't a clue about cars. We do, we're online all day every day living and breathing them. Walk into a BMW showroom today and chat to someone considering a 520d. Do you think they know exactly how much horsepower's under the bonnet? Do you think they know there's more than one type of leather available? They're buying what they've been conditioned to buy.

And do you think the 530d buyer knows either? Equal chance of either guy knowing something or nothing if you ask me.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

To be fair, that's a silly argument. The M3 and M5 are the best cars that BMW make in the 3 series and 5 series product line. You don't need to know about them to understand you're buying the best available.

That's what kind of annoys me though. "I'm rich, what's the best thing available? Great! I'll take one!". Any tool can do that. I rate these people in the same category as the people who buy an SLR camera and leave it on auto mode.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The most interesting man I met was an old M3 customer of mine. When the e92 M3 came out, I went to Mondello with him to test drive it. This guy was in his 50's. You could tell he didn't know the technical details about the cars, but he understood the passion. He got out on the track with his M3, and he was 12 again. That speaks volumes to me about the type of people who buy certain cars.

That only speaks volumes to me about that one individual.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

In general (And not in every case) - there's little passion involved in buying a 520d. (525d, 530d, 535d, 523i, 528i, 530i) It's a rational decision to buy one, not an emotional decision.

I added the rest to that quote because you don't really buy a 5-series out of passion. Even if it has lots of torque.

Owen

I can't say I agree with any of your post, but that's the thing about Internet forums. Everyone has an opinion, and we're all right

Anyway, this isn't the 520d thread.

Genuinely, I see this new FWD BMW selling. My sister's a classic example, against my advice, she bought a 1 Series when they were mental money. She couldn't care less if it's FWD, AWD, RWD or no wheel drive. All she wanted was a small compact premium car. And there's thousands just like her out there who all want a small, inexpensive BMW instead of an Auris, or a Golf. It'll sell!

CosmicJay

First they make the 1 series, then switch the m5 from N/A to Force Induction.

Now this, Where o where have all the proper Bmw's gone.

Eric Cartman

RIP BMW 2013 , we knew yee well, then you f*cked everything up

tbh I absoloutley love beamers (1 series , X1, X3 and X6, *18d, *20d, 316 excluded) Would love a nice M5 or 7er if the insurance would allow me, and will have to own an 850csi at some stage of my life , but I love these cars for being big luxury rear wheel drive powerhouses that are still comfortable. by building a front wheel drive car, they are, in my opinion just ruining the last good thing left that Mercedes and BMW have. whatever about a small car but If bmw changed the 5 series to FWD id see no reason to buy one over say a passat with all the toys on it , without RWD bmw's have nothing worth paying for over jap fwd saloons and the badge snobbery would soon dissapear, they should just leave their winning formula alone and keep building great rwd cars like theyve been doing .... since before I was born

RandomAccess

They are diluting the brand with greed being the only motivation.
If they keep going down the road they are on, BMW will cease to stand for what its marketing department claims.

Mercedes went down this road before with the A class and imho it cheapened the brand no end.

The 5 series GT and X6M are all signs of the rot that is beginning to take hold.

RIP BMW
1916 - 2010 (if that)

Matt Simis

Im struggling to see why I should care (and I like BMW). If they want to sell cars to people not interested in a car's dynamics, then a FWD drivetrain is perfect (and a better choice).

Each of these s***ty low end POS out there funds a little bit of the next M6, 7 series, 8series Mk2 (as if) etc. BMW make sporty, RWD cars. But thats not all they make and it doesnt have to be.

They arent some obscure Weissman style kit car maker, let the off and make money and plenty of it, they are a company not an ideology.

dr.fuzzenstein

So when you see one drive by you can say "Wow, he must have really wanted a BMW!"

Leonard Hofstadter

Project i is rear engine RWD.

A FWD BMW is wrong on so many levels. Whatever happened to the days of BMWs being the Ultimate Driving Machine? FWD by definition cannot be the basis for an Ultimate Driving Machine, all the weight is at the front whereas with RWD or even 4WD it is possible to make a chassis properly balanced. Of course it is possible to make a FWD car drive well, I don't come from the school of FWD is bad and RWD is good, but that is not the point here. BMW has spent its whole life arguing that RWD is an 'extra' worth having and even went so far as to boast with the 1 series that RWD was 'standard' in a way that electric windows etc are standard.

BMW is run by accountants now, Norbert Reithofer has got to be the worst CEO the company has ever had, he really doesn't give a damm about the heritage of the brand or what it stands for.

BMW got the reputation it got because it quite literally made cars that were better than the 'lesser' makes like Ford and Toyota. There were no compromises like using cheap materials(which the X1 is guilty of and so was the previous X3) or not making things reliable enough but that is all gone now.

When he talks about 1 series owners thinking the car is FWD he is actually referring to owners of the hatchback, not the Coupe who most certainly do NOT think the car is FWD. He even said it at the time that Coupe and Cabriolet buyers of the 1 series were fully aware that it is a RWD car.

I don't think it is fair to lump in a 520d with the likes of a 316i. It has 184 hp these days, which is the same as the original 530d. A 520d is not a bad car or a let down to BMW in a way that a 316i or 316d with a miserable 115 bhp is. When you consider that it has 184 hp and a base level S80 has 107 bhp or a base E-class or A6 has 136 bhp then it compares very favourably and is most certainly worthy of being an entry level car in that category for the makers of an 'Ultimate Driving Machine'.

But nevertheless it IS a bottom of the range car, it is only sold because markets like Ireland want it(I know it sells well in the UK and France too); the Germans all buy 530ds, and BMW themselves have said that the current model was designed for six cylinder engines, they even thought about putting in the 123d engine into it but decided to stick with the bigger six cylinder engine because they felt that's what would suit the car best and that those who wanted economy were not that interested in perforamnce and hence were not going to choose that engine anyway so decided the 520d would cater for anyone who wanted a 5 series but was cost conscious. As I said in another thread recently Baby Jesus cries every time someone buys a 5 series with a four cylinder engine, or a 316i/316d.