Abramovich vs. Ireland

ei.sdraob

Russian billionaire and Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich may take legal action against the Government over its decision to make subordinated bondholders in Irish Nationwide pay part of the bill for dealing with the building society's huge property losses.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1001/irishnationwide.html

so its the likes of this guy who the taxpayer is being raped for, i see
burn em all they took a gamble on Ireland and they lost

thats capitalism for ya (where's the "socialise losses" brigade now)

edit: more here for anyone who is allergic to RTE

dunsandin

ei. , get real please...Roman has just put a deposit down on a new yacht and if we keep up this "shaft the bondholders" nonsense he will be forced to pay for it from his savings as opposed to from this week months years cash-flow. Be reasonable, that is a level of pain that even you can not wish upon our oligarch neighbours. So what if a bunch of loser taxpayer nobodies have to suffer a bit. Think of Romans image - if we get away with it, everybody would try it on. Biffo may well expect to find a horses head on his turn-pane some morning..... The very idea of stiffing these fine people is reprehensible and debased, and would lead to systemic problems..... (you fill in the rest of the drivvel required to keep on message.) To say any different would be "un-patriotic".........

irishh_bob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1001/irishnationwide.html

so its the likes of this guy who the taxpayer is being raped for, i see
burn em all they took a gamble on Ireland and they lost

thats capitalism for ya (where's the "socialise losses" brigade now)

edit: more here for anyone who is allergic to RTE

abramovich isnt a capitalist in the traditional sense , guys like him hadnt a shekel before the soviet union collapsed but what they did have was muscle , this guy baschically got control of russias steel industry and gas reserves by whacking whoever got in his way

caseyann

irishh_bob wrote: »

abramovich isnt a capitalist in the traditional sense , guys like him hadnt a shekel before the soviet union collapsed but what they did have was muscle , this guy baschically got control of russias steel industry and gas reserves by whacking whoever got in his way

If that is true alot of people should go into hiding then here
He will own Ireland

dunsandin

another few months of this govt and there will be no industry left for him to muscle in on.

Amhran Nua

irishh_bob wrote: »

abramovich isnt a capitalist in the traditional sense , guys like him hadnt a shekel before the soviet union collapsed but what they did have was muscle , this guy baschically got control of russias steel industry and gas reserves by whacking whoever got in his way

Sounds like the freest of free market thinking to me, was that not the exact method used by the British East India company to lay the foundations for the Empah?

ei.sdraob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Sounds like the freest of free market thinking to me, was that not the exact method used by the British East India company to lay the foundations for the Empah?

In a free market, bad investments lead to bankruptcy and liquidations (a loss on investment)


Its the government that has dumped (socialized) losses of people/entities like the above smiling mug on the people of this country, instead of telling them all to eat ****.

silverharp

if Lenny had a sense of humour he'd pay Abramovich off in Czarist era bonds

deanh

irishh_bob wrote: »

abramovich isnt a capitalist in the traditional sense , guys like him hadnt a shekel before the soviet union collapsed but what they did have was muscle , this guy baschically got control of russias steel industry and gas reserves by whacking whoever got in his way

Actually, guys like him hadn't a shekel before the cack-handed intervention of the IMF which forced the Russian Government to sell off State assets for a tiny fraction of what they were worth with no clawback mechanism. This reality should be a sober reminder of the IMF's failings for those who appear to welcome its intervention in Ireland

mikemac

Funny you should say that silverharp

Offtopic post but I always liked this story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Crown_of_Russia

Following the October Revolution the new Russian Republic, which was seriously low on funds, sought a loan from the Irish Republic, whose finance minister, Michael Collins, had become internationally famous for his fundraising for the unofficial Irish state.

The Crown Jewels were used as collateral by the Soviet Republic for a loan of $25,000 from the Irish Republic. The transfer was made in New York City between the head of the Soviet Bureau' the de-facto Soviet Ambassador to America Ludwig Martens, and the Irish envoy in the United States, Teachta Dála Harry Boland.
When Boland returned to Ireland the jewels were kept in the house of his mother, Kathleen Boland O'Donovan, in Dublin City during the Irish War of Independence. Before Boland died, during the Battle of Dublin, he instructed his mother to keep the jewels hidden from the Free State until the Irish Republicans returned to power. Ms Boland O'Donovan returned the jewels to the Irish Government under de Valera in 1938. The jewels were placed in a safe in Government Buildings and were forgotten about.

On their discovery in 1948, by the new government led by John A. Costello, it was originally intended that the set of Crown Jewels would be sold by public auction in London. However, after consultations as to their legal status, and negotiations with the Soviet ambassador, it was arranged for them to be returned to the Soviet Union in exchange for the sum of $25,000 originally loaned in 1920. The jewels would ultimately return to Moscow in 1950.[5]
[edit]

thebman

We should send him the Father Ted series or just this bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk

AlekSmart

This to me looks like the piece of thread sticking out of the Ministers wooly jumper.

Surely the Millhouse/Abramovich team cannot be acting alone in this toughening of stance against the forces of Brian the Good ?

However I personally feel it`s a good thing to finally see names being named,which flies in the face of Mr Lenihan`s dogged insistence on "Commercial Sensitivity" as a reason for keeping us all in the dark.

I wonder what the level of communication is between Roman and the other Big Name Big Bond holders ?

Count Dooku

Government should pay to Abramovich by GKO's issued in 1998, when Russia defaulted on state bonds

xavidub

Tell him we will pay 50% on the bonds if he will throw in Drogba for the National team.

irishh_bob

xavidub wrote: »

Tell him we will pay 50% on the bonds if he will throw in Drogba for the National team.

sure the ivory coast and ireland are one and the same anyhow , both nations flags are identical

ei.sdraob

so after yesterdays primetime show with the same name (ahem) > http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1082699

does anyone on this forum still going think that NAMA and the bailouts are a good idea :rolleyes:

hell even if its too late to rollback NAMA whats done is done and all that, it is still not to late:
* to partially default on bondholders
* to change legislation in order to pursue developers to the end of the earth (and their wives)
* to bring some sort of transparency to NAMA and how it handles OUR money

xavidub

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so after yesterdays primetime show with the same name (ahem) > http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1082699

does anyone on this forum still going think that NAMA and the bailouts are a good idea :rolleyes:

hell even if its too late to rollback NAMA whats done is done and all that, it is still not to late:
* to partially default on bondholders
* to change legislation in order to pursue developers to the end of the earth (and their wives)
* to bring some sort of transparency to NAMA and how it handles OUR money

Watching this process unfold is like sitting tied up in your front room while burglars systematically and methodically take away everything you own

Caoimhín

ei.sdraob wrote: »

* to bring some sort of transparency to NAMA and how it handles OUR money

We really would be "through the looking glass"...

ei.sdraob

Caoimhín wrote: »

We really would be "through the looking glass"...

Without transparency we endup with more tribunals on the waste and corruption that would arise in NAMA

Caoimhín

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Without transparency we endup with more tribunals on the waste and corruption that would arise in NAMA

Oh I agree, but id say some of the goings on would just be curious and curiouser....

NOGMaxpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1001/irishnationwide.html

so its the likes of this guy who the taxpayer is being raped for, i see
burn em all they took a gamble on Ireland and they lost

thats capitalism for ya (where's the "socialise losses" brigade now)

edit: more here for anyone who is allergic to RTE

CHEALSEA FOREVER WE MAYBE FOR WE ALL NOW BELONG TO CFC!!

changes

AlekSmart wrote: »

However I personally feel it`s a good thing to finally see names being named,which flies in the face of Mr Lenihan`s dogged insistence on "Commercial Sensitivity" as a reason for keeping us all in the dark.

This is the part that grates with me most now. An absolutely incredible financial burden has been placed on the irish taxpayer and we have apparantly no business asking who we are giving all this money to.

Standard rules of non disclosure should be out the window we are way beyond all that now.

changes

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so after* to change legislation in order to pursue developers to the end of the earth (and their wives)

How on earth was this swindle allowed to happen. Either we are being governed by complete morons without a clue or there is something very sinister going on.

ednwireland

is it why berties hiding in a cupboard ?

Tora Bora

I wonder do away goals count as double in the event of a draw:D

flutered

now could not the bankers tanker (in gambling lingo) ie lenihan come to an arrangement with abonavich or however one spells it, for that guy drumm to walk in the doors of store st, garda station, or any station for that matter,:D

OhNoYouDidn't

AlekSmart wrote: »

This to me looks like the piece of thread sticking out of the Ministers wooly jumper.

Surely the Millhouse/Abramovich team cannot be acting alone in this toughening of stance against the forces of Brian the Good ?

However I personally feel it`s a good thing to finally see names being named,which flies in the face of Mr Lenihan`s dogged insistence on "Commercial Sensitivity" as a reason for keeping us all in the dark.

I wonder what the level of communication is between Roman and the other Big Name Big Bond holders ?

I'm not sure about that. In legal and financial terms, he hasn't a leg to stand on. He bought subordinate debt paying 13% with a gurantee running out last month. Now he feels its unfair that the explicit terms of the product are being enforced. Boo hoo. Risk, reward and all that.

What is happening here is posturing and an agressive stance before the decision on how many cents in the euro are paid out. Attack is the best form of defence etc.

Or in short, he sees the government as weak and will try and bullly a few more bob out of them, which is a half decent shout really

McDougal

As a Chelsea fan I hope he wins. We need to be more competitive in the transfer market.

McDougal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so after yesterdays primetime show with the same name (ahem) > http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1082699

does anyone on this forum still going think that NAMA and the bailouts are a good idea :rolleyes:

hell even if its too late to rollback NAMA whats done is done and all that, it is still not to late:
* to partially default on bondholders
* to change legislation in order to pursue developers to the end of the earth (and their wives)
* to bring some sort of transparency to NAMA and how it handles OUR money

We need to keep the markets happy

ei.sdraob

just thinking out loud there could be a bigger play going on here by Abramovich

hows this sound:

* come out of the shadow and rattle the people and the govt
* the government is forced by popular discontent and pressure from opposition to default on bondholders
* abramovich and others looses this money

BUT

* he took out short positions (via his investors) to be paid in event of a default on bondholders
* profit