PJ Sheenhan's just deserts.

Wide Road

[Admin Notice: Split off from the Paul Gogarty Thread as it is unrelated, this has otherwise been left intact.]



Lets suppose he didn't reply. Would it change your headline? My guess is yes because your headline is based on Paul's reply. Are you with me? Let's hope so because I need your help now. Remember when the Dail took their Summer holidays and a FG TD tried to drive back to West Cork while under the influence of alcohol. This guy is called PJ Sheehan and he could have and in all probability would have killed someone only for the actions of a guard that was assualted by PJ. Now, be truthful and answer this question, do you think this politician deserves to be a member of Dail Eireann? Yes or No, it's your call.

DeVore

Wide Road wrote: »

Lets suppose he didn't reply. Would it change your headline? My guess is yes because your headline is based on Paul's reply. Are you with me? Let's hope so because I need your help now. Remember when the Dail took their Summer holidays and a FG TD tried to drive back to West Cork while under the influence of alcohol. This guy is called PJ Sheehan and he could have and in all probability would have killed someone only for the actions of a guard that was assualted by PJ. Now, be truthful and answer this question, do you think this politician deserves to be a member of Dail Eireann? Yes or No, it's your call.

That person should, like any irish man or woman, have been charged for being "Drunk in Charge of a vehicle" and also "assaulting a Garda".

If that precludes you from being a TD (I'm not aware if it does) then he should have been dismissed. If not, the electorate should decide his future at the next election.

I dont understand two things:

1. What this has to do with Mr Gogarty.

2. What you "need my help" with.

DeV.

Shea O'Meara

DeVore wrote: »

Due to a thread on Boards here, I decided to put it directly to Mr Gogarty that he and other supposedly angry TDs should step down and trigger a general election.

My "tweet" in full:
"@PaulGogartyTD I and others would like to know why you and other supposedly angry TD's dont resign and trigger a G.E. http://bit.ly/bCf1rm "

His reply:
@DeVore it's called patriotism


I find this answer deeply unsatifactory and smacks of glib smart-arsedness. I've subsequently put this to him:
@PaulGogartyTD Patriotism would be allowing the people of Ireland self determination. We would prefer an answer not a glib soundbite.


On the plus side, at least he's responding directly which is more then the vast majority of our "representatives".

DeV.

Well done.
Patriotism.....since when did propping up a government with one illegal T.D. (see Bertie/tax clearance) and a number of unrepresented areas leaving people swinging in the wind amount to patriotism?

Shea O'Meara

DeVore wrote: »

I dont understand two things:

1. What this has to do with Mr Gogarty.

2. What you "need my help" with.

DeV.

I would guess that any post or thread casting our fine members of government in an ill light should also 'help' it's supporters bash FG et al. :rolleyes:

Wide Road

meglome wrote: »

patriotism hehehehe. Now I'm all for patriotism as such but that answer is bull****.



I don't think anyone would support Sheehans actions but then again he didn't basically bankrupt the country.

Put a price on a life?

DeVore

< 39 billion.


Can you answer my questions or are you just dragging us off topic. I've no problem debating this in a thread of its own.

DeV.

bad2dabone

Wide Road,

obviously sheehan is a scumbag and needs to be turfed out.
But you're completely off topic man.

Wide Road

[QUOTE=meglome;
I don't think anyone would support Sheehans actions but then again he didn't basically bankrupt the country.[/QUOTE]

You're wrong again. Enda supported PJ's actions until they were caught out. What's your price on a life?
BTW, did you and others neglect to condem PJ before?

meglome

Wide Road wrote: »

Put a price on a life?

If a crime was committed then he should be punished for that, no question. But he didn't drive his car and he didn't basically bankrupt the country. However I have no idea what that has to do with Paul Gogarty supporting a government which has fúcked us all. Now i appreciate we voted (not me personally) for the tossers but we expected some competence which sadly we didn't get.

DeVore

I'm splitting these posts out, this is just massively unconnected to this topic.

DeV.

Wide Road

DeVore wrote: »

< 39 billion.

DeV.

I'm sad if this is your price of a human life. Have you anything else to offer

DeVore

Can you answer my questions or are you just trolling?

DeV.

Wide Road

DeVore wrote: »

Can you answer my questions or are you just trolling?

DeV.

Considering you moved my posts onto a new topic, where De V do I post my reply?

DeVore

Here is fine, this entire thread is about PJ Sheehan and the event you wanted to discuss. Everyone better keep it legal though.


DeV.

DeVore

I'll help you out, this was my reply to you original post about Mr Sheehan in the Mr Gogarty thread. If you wish to follow this path I'm happy to discuss it with you and anyone else.

Be warned though, I am abroad in a different time zone and its very late here (5.07am) so I will be in bed soon but I will reply tomorrow if not tonight.

DeV.

Liam Byrne

Maybe if O'Donoghue had followed up on his promise of zero tolerance Sheehan would be in jail ?

Then again, so probably would O'Donoghue himself, Callely, O'Dea, Ahern...........

Wide Road, you have a point. Sheehan should not be a TD as he shows no regard for the laws of this country.

Now, the key to your glasshouse is right there next to the stones, under the files with the above names on them. Feel free to use it.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe if O'Donoghue had followed up on his promise of zero tolerance Sheehan would be in jail ?

Then again, so probably would O'Donoghue himself, Callely, O'Dea, Ahern...........

Wide Road, you have a point. Sheehan should not be a TD as he shows no regard for the laws of this country.

Now, the key to your glasshouse is right there next to the stones, under the files with the above names on them. Feel free to use it.

And no mention of your beloved Enda.
The silence is deafening in the high moral ground.

meglome

Wide Road wrote: »

And no mention of your beloved Enda.
The silence is deafening in the high moral ground.

Did Enda Kenny break the law?

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

And no mention of your beloved Enda.
The silence is deafening in the high moral ground.

"Beloved Enda" :rolleyes:

But if you want me to humour your delusions, I will; Enda's involvement in not dealing properly with Sheehan is equivalent to Cowen not dealing with those mentioned above.

Given that you didn't originally mention Kenny and other third-parties, I won't mention Cowen.

But it's your thread, so I'll leave it up to you.

Wide Road

meglome wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny break the law?

No he didn't. I don't remember saying he did.
Did PJ break the law?

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"Beloved Enda" :rolleyes:

But if you want me to humour your delusions, I will; Enda's involvement in not dealing properly with Sheehan is equivalent to Cowen not dealing with those mentioned above.

Given that you didn't originally mention Kenny and other third-parties, I won't mention Cowen.

But it's your thread, so I'll leave it up to you.

If you claim it's my thread, why did you mention O'Donoghue etc?

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

No he didn't. I don't remember saying he did.
Did PJ break the law?

As far as I know he didn't, because he didn't drive on a public road.

Mind you, that might be a technicality and doesn't excuse his actions.

That said, I'd prefer "I didn't drive on a public road, your honour" to "I live in Dublin but my primary place of residence is Cork", or "I won it on da horses and I haven't a notion who gave me a year's salary, your honour".

Then again, my opinion probably isn't really relevant, considering I'm not a member of the party and wouldn't even consider it until it cleans up more - despite ridiculous and pathetic claims about "my beloved Enda" :rolleyes: - .....FG might be one of the best of a bad lot, but as I've said elsewhere "the best of a bad lot" isn't good enough, especially with people like Sheehan around.

DeVore

Wide Road wrote: »

If you claim it's my thread, why did you mention O'Donoghue etc?

equally i could ask why you brought up Sheehan on my thread?? (you never did give me an answer to that question).

DeV.

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

If you claim it's my thread, why did you mention O'Donoghue etc?

Because their actions are comparable; you brought up Kenny which is the equivalent of bringing in Cowen.

And since you're actively supporting FF as a member, you have a bigger case to answer as to why you object to Sheehan's actions and don't object to Ahern, O'Dea, Sheehan, etc.

As I said earlier, people in glasshouses are in no position to throw stones.

Wide Road

DeVore wrote: »

equally i could ask why you brought up Sheehan on my thread?? (you never did give me an answer to that question).

DeV.

Ok, let's say I should have not brought up Sheehan on your thread. To follow on from your thinking, why then are you now allowing postings on O'Donoghue etc on my thread? You can't have it both ways IMO.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That said, I'd prefer "I didn't drive on a public road, your honour" to "I live in Dublin but my primary place of residence is Cork", or "I won it on da horses and I haven't a notion who gave me a year's salary, your honour"..

Can someone tell me what this has to do with this thread?

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And since you're actively supporting FF as a member, you have a bigger case to answer as to why you object to Sheehan's actions and don't object to Ahern, O'Dea, Sheehan, etc.
.

How do you know I'm actively supporting FF as a member?
PJ was likely to injure or most likely kill a member(s) of the public due to him attempting to drive to West Cork. You firstly decided to ignore the seriousness of his actions and instead concentrate mainly on leaks and spin. What O'Donoghue etc has to do with this story is beyond me.

DeVore

Yes, we should get back on topic. To be fair, Wide Road also took this thread off topic when you brought up Enda Kenny out of the blue.

Wide Road wrote: »

No he didn't. I don't remember saying he did.
Did PJ break the law?

I understand PJ was "drunk in charge" and also accused of threatening a Garda in the course of her duty.


So, I believe the answer to your question is "yes, he did".

DeV.

gandalf

PJ Sheenhan was not caught on the open roads, a Garda did their job and stopped him before he did anything that could put members of the public in danger. Should he be a TD if he was willing to break the laws of this country and to confront a member of the security forces in manner he did? No of course he shouldn't. No person who attempts to by-pass, break or subvert the law or help others to do so should be a member of our National Parliament.

Then again there are a number of politicians in Dail Eireann who should not be TD's anymore either. The most apt comparison to this is a Mr Jim McDaid who unlike Sheenhan did make it onto the public highways and drove the wrong side of the road in Kildare actually putting members of the general public in danger. Why are you not throwing your toys out of the pram with your moral outrage about that incident and the fact the man is still a TD after the events?

With regard to the Enda comment you keep harping on about. I would not read the X-File like conspiracy theory into it that you are. I would be of the opinion as a lot of others are that it was a man putting the mind of a Garda to rest concerned about the comments of a drunken man threatening their career.

As for being an active FF supporting member I believe you are based on your contributions on this forum Wide Road. As I don't know you in person I can only judge you on your words.

Wide Road

gandalf wrote: »

PJ Sheenhan was not caught on the open roads, a Garda did their job and stopped him before he did anything that could put members of the public in danger. Should he be a TD if he was willing to break the laws of this country and to confront a member of the security forces in manner he did? No of course he shouldn't. No person who attempts to by-pass, break or subvert the law or help others to do so should be a member of our National Parliament.

With regard to the Enda comment you keep harping on about. I would not read the X-File like conspiracy theory into it that you are. I would be of the opinion as a lot of others are that it was a man putting the mind of a Garda to rest concerned about the comments of a drunken man threatening their career.
.

PJ Sheehan assaulted the Garda. Why has this not commented on by ye, and why have the Gardai not pressed charges?
Why all the silence?

gandalf

Wide Road wrote: »

PJ Sheehan assaulted the Garda. Why has this not commented on by ye, and why have the Gardai not pressed charges?
Why all the silence?

How did he assault the Garda? Surely you are not spinning that pointing your finger at someone is assault are you?

Have you asked the Gardai directly why they haven't pressed charges? We can't answer on their behalf!

Also can you respond to my comments on Jim McDaid? Why no outrage over his actions which did put members of the public in danger?

Seth Brundle

Wide Road wrote: »

PJ Sheehan assaulted the Garda. Why has this not commented on by ye, and why have the Gardai not pressed charges?
Why all the silence?

As I understand it, the Garda commissioner was looking into Sheehan's actions and decided not to pursue a case.
If you disagree with this then contact him or the Garda ombudsman.

Wide Road

gandalf wrote: »

How did he assault the Garda? Surely you are not spinning that pointing your finger at someone is assault are you?

Have you asked the Gardai directly why they haven't pressed charges? We can't answer on their behalf!

Also can you respond to my comments on Jim McDaid? Why no outrage over his actions which did put members of the public in danger?

1. I am not spinning. Last Sundays Indo stated that PJ assaulted the garda concerned. Enda has said it's time to move on, without a credible explaination, remember.
2. No I haven't asked the gardai directly as to why they have not pressed charges. It's suspicious, isn't it?
3. I'm only posting here for a couple of months so in fairness I don't think I could start criticising or even remembering something that happened years ago.

gandalf

Wide Road wrote: »

1. I am not spinning. Last Sundays Indo stated that PJ assaulted the garda concerned.

The Sindo said it so it must be true so. :rolleyes:

Enda has said it's time to move on, without a credible explaination, remember.

Enda told a Garda not to worry about the rants of a drunken fool.

As for taking action against Sheenhan I would have preferred if he turfed him out but then again the guy has already stated that he won't be contesting the next election and the gardai are not taking action against him so what's to be gained bar saving your toys another rapid exit out of your pram.

2. No I haven't asked the gardai directly as to why they have not pressed charges. It's suspicious, isn't it?

What its suspicious that you haven't contacted the Gardai about why they haven't pressed charges?

3. I'm only posting here for a couple of months so in fairness I don't think I could start criticising or even remembering something that happened years ago.

There is this wonderful thing on the Internet called a search engine which allows you search for news that happened in the past. It is especially good at finding information when someone is found guilty of a crime in the past.

As you like the Independent as your source of information here are some details for you.

Jim McDaids Arrest

The ironic thing is this is the man who as a FF Junior Minister in 2002 heading up the anti-Drink Driving campaign for FF. So again now that you have read the content should he be still in the Dail?

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

1. I am not spinning. Last Sundays Indo stated that PJ assaulted the garda concerned. Enda has said it's time to move on, without a credible explaination, remember.

That's where you went wrong. You also appeared to agree with those who took as fact that Enda had seen the incident, etc, and had told the Garda to "ignore it" instead of what he actually said, which was "ignore him".

Today's Sindo says that Lenihan is trusted by a "majority" of voters, supporting that claim by a figure of 27%.

So I would suggest using more reputable sources.

Wide Road wrote: »

2. No I haven't asked the gardai directly as to why they have not pressed charges. It's suspicious, isn't it?

Not particularly, since it may have been viewed as less of an issue than the Sindo made it out to be.

And before you go off on a tangent and claim that that's excusing inappropriate behaviour, it's not. But LOTS of things aren't followed up or looked into - I won't mention some in case we go off-topic.

Wide Road wrote: »

3. I'm only posting here for a couple of months so in fairness I don't think I could start criticising or even remembering something that happened years ago.

So you didn't start reading newspapers or taking notice of events involving drunken politicians until you started posting on boards ?

And yet you repeatedly ask questions as to how FG cleared their debt and Michael Noonan's Hep C scandal ?

Now THAT is suspicious.

Wide Road

kbannon wrote: »

As I understand it, the Garda commissioner was looking into Sheehan's actions and decided not to pursue a case.
If you disagree with this then contact him or the Garda ombudsman.

As I stated already, it's suspicious that no action was taken into the assaulting of a garda. It's unbelievable to be honest. Do you agree?

gandalf

Wide Road wrote: »

As I stated already, it's suspicious that no action was taken into the assaulting of a garda. It's unbelievable to be honest. Do you agree?

No its not. It would appear that the dramatic story as it appeared in the Sindo is not how things transpired in reality and the Gardai decided to take no further action.

Now if you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up directly with the Gardai. What I find unbelievable is your selective moral outrage.

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

As I stated already, it's suspicious that no action was taken into the assaulting of a garda. It's unbelievable to be honest. Do you agree?

It's less unbelieveable than someone who avoids answering a question based on a defence of not commenting on things from before they started posting on boards, despite the existence of numerous instances of them commenting on things from beforehand when it suits their agenda.

Happyman42

There is a difference in that Jim McDaid was caught, charged and convicted and sentenced. His Party Leader wasn't present or intefered with the case.
PJ Sheehan attempted to drive, threatened and assaulted a Garda, yet wasn't charged. His party leader was present and intervened in some form and didn't see fit to take any action until it was revealed in the papers.
Both men are still TD's.

gandalf

Happyman42 wrote: »

There is a difference in that Jim McDaid was caught, charged and convicted and sentenced. His Party Leader wasn't present or intefered with the case.
PJ Sheehan attempted to drive, threatened and assaulted a Garda, yet wasn't charged. His party leader was present and intervened in some form and didn't see fit to take any action until it was revealed in the papers.
Both men are still TD's.

Hang on a minute. According to the reports Enda Kenny came into the car park after these events and it was the Garda on duty who approached him concerned about the comments that Sheenhan had made. Enda told the Garda to forget about the comments not forget about the incident.

The difference is that even though Sheenhan made an attempt to get to his car, he did not drive it on a public highway intoxicated. Jim McDaid did, he drove on the wrong side of a dual carriageway. He did it in Kildare where I have close family who use those very roads daily. He put their lives and the lives of every one else who used those roads in direct danger.

Happyman42

gandalf wrote: »

The difference is that even though Sheenhan made an attempt to get to his car, he did not drive it on a public highway intoxicated. Jim McDaid did, he drove on the wrong side of a dual carriageway. He did it in Kildare where I have close family who use those very roads daily. He put their lives and the lives of every one else who used those roads in direct danger.

Undoubtedly he did, but he also faced the full rigour of the law.
The Garda Commissioner has requested a report on the Sheehan/Kenny incident which we should wait for before pronouncing Kenny innocent.
The suggestion was being made that McDaid incident was similar, it's not.

gandalf

Happyman42 wrote: »

The Garda Commissioner has requested a report on the Sheehan/Kenny incident which we should wait for before pronouncing Kenny innocent.

Actually I thought in Ireland the accused was presumed innocent until proven otherwise

Happyman42

gandalf wrote: »

Actually I thought in Ireland the accused was presumed innocent until proven otherwise

Correct, but I was referring to you and Liams adamant assertion of his innocence without the results of the report the Garda COmmissioner (likewise me) felt was neccessary.

Liam Byrne

Happyman42 wrote: »

Undoubtedly he did, but he also faced the full rigour of the law.
The Garda Commissioner has requested a report on the Sheehan/Kenny incident which we should wait for before pronouncing Kenny innocent.
The suggestion was being made that McDaid incident was similar, it's not.

It's similar, but you're right; McDaid's case is a lot worse. Not only did he ACTUALLY drive on a public road while drunk, he ACTUALLY drove ON THE WRONG SIDE OF A DUAL CARRAIGEWAY.

So thanks for highlighting that; it's a very good reason why he had to face the full rigours of the law.....because (as you helpfully pointed out) there are differences between what was done.

Mind you, what that has to do with yet another dragging up of Kenny I don't know.

There's a whole thread about that elsewhere (one which I got sick of, TBH, because when I went to point out the lies that were in the thread, I was accused of being partisan, and then when the lies stopped and I stopped having a problem with what was being said, I was accused of being inconsistent because I was no longer complaining).

And when I gave up because the above wasn't acknowledged, I was baited with "it's all gone quiet", even though there was nothing more for me to say; the thread topic had been corrected to reasonably near the facts, and those are down to the Gardai and DPP.

So let's not repeat the process here.

Happyman42

Who is being consistent I wonder?
You have 'presumed' from the start that Kenny has no case to answer and vigorously defended him. The Garda Commissioner, I and others, at least see the need for clarification of the nights events. Something Kenny, you and others don't. I was merely 'highlighting' the fact that McDaids case was not similar, because he faced his day in court and rightly so.

Liam Byrne

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who is being consistent I wonder?
You have 'presumed' from the start that Kenny has no case to answer and vigorously defended him. The Garda Commissioner, I and others, at least see the need for clarification of the nights events. Something Kenny, you and others don't. I was merely 'highlighting' the fact that McDaids case was not similar, because he faced his day in court and rightly so.

Yet again you are attempting to muddy the waters, and it's getting exasperating at this stage.

Firstly, PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE is a key right.

Secondly, I did not "rigourously defend Kenny"; I stated that the claims re him witnessing everything and claims that he said "ignore the event" were inaccurate and were complete spin.

Thirdly, Kenny did not commit the "comparable" crime. This thread is about Sheehan as compared to McDaid; not Kenny.

Lastly, McDaid's actions were far more extreme, so it's perfectly possible that he faced a day in court and Sheehan may not.

For example, a Garda who stops you and your tax is out might say "get it sorted" and leave you on your way.

If you are driving the wrong way down a dual carraigeway (thereby caught red-handed committing TWO crimes) you can almost guarantee that he will throw the book at you.

Wide Road

gandalf wrote: »

The Sindo said it so it must be true so. :rolleyes:
?

It's sad that a serious allegation is overlooked by you and others because it came from the Sindo. Have you info of PJ taking a case against the paper for publishing alleged lies about a FG TD? Assaulting a guard is a serious charge to make and I'm sure PJ will not leave the Dail with this image hanging over his and his partys head. So many questions, yet so little answers from ye.

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

So many questions, yet so little answers from ye.

Kettle, pot.

Would you care to explain your claim earlier that you don't comment on events prior to your registering on boards, and then explain how that ties in with your comments about FG's debt and Michael Noonan's Hep C scandal which happened - oh, yeah - before you registered on boards ?

Or is that just too inconvenient ?

In 1994 the 'Rainbow Coalition' was formed and Noonan became Minister for Health. The department was embroiled in a scandal at the time regarding blood products contaminated with Hepatitis C virus. He refused to resign and remained as Minister until the 1997 election election.

In April 2005 McDaid was arrested when found driving drunk in the wrong direction on a dual carriageway outside Dublin.

Well ?

Happyman42

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yet again you are attempting to muddy the waters,

People in glass houses....etc etc We will await the report.

Wide Road

gandalf wrote: »

Enda told a Garda not to worry about the rants of a drunken fool.?

WOW, is this a direct quote? How do you know this? Please explain? Again, so many questions, yet so few answers!

Liam Byrne

Happyman42 wrote: »

People in glass houses....etc etc

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about with that comment, so I will disengage from any further discourse with you; anyone objective can read my posts and my explanation, because the meaning and stance are perfectly clear.

Happyman42 wrote: »

We will await the report.

That we will, and if Kenny is found wanting then his constitutional right to a presumption of innocence will be rescinded, and rightly so.

Ooops, I forgot; the thread isn't about Kenny! Sorry mods!