Would you protest for change of Government (completely new government))

LukeQuietus

I'll try to keep this short and not rant.

Lisbon Treaty. We voted. They didn't like it. We we're forced to vote again. I'd say that alone means we have lost democracy in the country. I for one feel as though I have no say in what happens in the country. The people should run the government. Not the other way around.

The opposition is the other side of the same coin. They neither want power or have anything to offer. They're in the same corrupt bowl as Fianna FAIL.

I think the only way to have this NAMA thing dismantled and let Anglo Irish go before paying another cent is to have a new party introduced to the Dail. A party of this generation. All I see in the Dail is old men and women who live in the higher class and look down on us. They have conservative views and care more about what the EU big shots think about them than the opinions of their own countries people.

I'm not one of those "up the RA arseholes and I'm not interested in rioting or a violent revolution. I've also no interst in being in politics myself. But I do think we need change. When the republic was formed it was done so by people who understood the hardships of that time. So it makes sense that now we need a government of people who've also suffered the hardships of now. I doubt anyone in the Dail is struggling to pay bills or make end's meet. They see it from a different point of view completely.

To summarize:
No violence. People willing to hold large peaceful protests and maybe the creation of a new political party of YOUNG intelligent open-minded people who have ideas on how to improve things and drive to follow it through if it seems change is impossible any other way.

CorkMan

I would protest no problem.

Meanwhile, a large percentage of the populace would have to climb off their sofas, which would be a problem.

LukeQuietus

CorkMan wrote: »

I would protest no problem.

Meanwhile, a large percentage of the populace would have to climb off their sofas, which would be a problem.

That's the problem. Even in myself I'll admit. But I've finally had enough. Hopefully everyone has.

sponsoredwalk

I just want to get in here early and silence some of the worn and beaten
topics that potentially could get discussed and cause the thread to turn
into a 50 page behemoth in 2 days, I've encountered it at least 3 times on
boards and it's getting old:

1) Protest hijackers:
Endless claims saying something like "I would protest but I know it'll just be
hijacked by gate crashing commie rats so what's the point?" are a joke.
If the protest is endlessly promoted as a peaceful march we instantly
avoid all violent connotations and should anybody start to get rowdy
members of the crowd/march should stop these people before the
guards get a chance. This way we don't give the media any chance to
blatantly tar everyone with the same brush.
People can be simple minded, I don't know how many times I've read
posts claiming "they're all egg throwers, they're all gate crashers" yada
yada...., when 5 people get rowdy it doesn't mean the 150 surrounding
them are: use your f'ing brains.

2) It's useless to protest:
There is nothing useless about sending the message to those hiding behind
the police that you're not going to take their ∫hit any longer. They've sold
you out more than once - recalling votes on things people already made
their minds up on, instilling the fear of god into us via the media every day
about the decisions of the Irish populus (think Lisbon, Nice etc...).

I'm going to refer you skeptics to the Mai 68 protests in France that are
generally thought of as the origins of France's radical protest policies.
The amazing thing about these protests is that they were a failure,
the desired goals were not achieved by the protestors yet the seeds of
rebellion were sown and to this day the French jump at the chance to
let their government know how they feel. This is a population that went
off and bought the presidents most hated book as a student just to let
him know how they felt :cool:

3) What are we protesting for?
Good question. What are you protesting for? A really successful movement
has a clear and cogent message to send that all of the people can get
behind. The problem here is that populist slogans can easily be bandied
about and have this weird power to win over crowds, (Think Obama). Serious
and detailed policies need to be read and understood by everyone behind
the message or else you're not organized.

I'm an alien, tell me why I should protest and why you're protesting!

pablo_escobar

nobody will protest..

Nailz

pablo_escobar wrote: »

nobody will protest..

And that's the attitude people take that make you're statement true, ironically. :rolleyes:

SoupyNorman

I would protest, but the Ryder Cup is on.

Black Swan

Will the new party PARTY?

Sofiztikated

Want to organise a protest forum is that way.

I get it, seriously you're incensed about the way things are, but is posting the exact same thing that is posted at least 2 times a day on AH helping?

Jesus Wept

A completely new type of government, yes.
Same structure, different cunts, no.

No matter who you vote for, the government always wins.

ch750536

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Want to organise a protest forum is that way.

I get it, seriously you're incensed about the way things are, but is posting the exact same thing that is posted at least 2 times a day on AH helping?

I asked for this some time back, was declined.

bonerm

Would we have to protest again if the results of the first protest aren't satisfactory?

Sam Vimes

LukeQuietus wrote: »

I think the only way to have this NAMA thing dismantled and let Anglo Irish go before paying another cent is to have a new party introduced to the Dail.

How will having another party in the Dail make us exempt from our debts?

I want a new government as much as the next man but I'm not pretending that everything will be rosy when that happens. We'll still owe just as much as we do today

moonpurple

if Deputy Gogarty ever wants to be a TD next time around

he should tell his local voters by twit

that he cannot continue with this administration and as a greenie

resign and offer himself as an independant, he may be re-elected as he will have changed Irish history
he might even recall the view of another big footprint dev ('I looked into my heart and saw what the irish people wanted De Valera 1937')

if he likes attention...he will have it

he tells deVore of Boards.ie by twit that he is motivated just now by 'patriotism' well he can give the majority of Irish people what they seek, an election
he can make a choice that a man called murphy made and he can learn about it by looking up boolavogue lyrics on google

we put the difficult terms from London to the people in 1920 and they accepted them in an election

lets put these difficult terms from the bond market to the Irish people in 2010, in an election format

the bond market can intimidate a Minister for Finance and a few staff in the dept. of finance
let us see if they can intimidate the irish people, let us express our view of an intolerable and overbearing pressure from big players in the international finance world

'Government of the people, by the people' (American Bill of Rights, a much more useful American Bill just now)

we are an ancient and proud people,

look at what we built at newgrange to contemplate the sun's movement while many europeans were brutalising each other

the most ruthless armies in the world came and could not silence us between 400AD and 1990
('They thought our gentleness was weakness' Michael Collins)
ni mhaith linn an sceal anois,
sceal nua,
ma se do thoil e'
Last edited by moonpurple; Today at 10:09.

melekalikimaka

LukeQuietus wrote: »

No violence. People willing to hold large peaceful protests and maybe the creation of a new political party of YOUNG intelligent open-minded people who have ideas on how to improve things and drive to follow it through if it seems change is impossible any other way.

the young intelligent people are the ones who can see why nama was set up, wny anglo is being kept propped up so i doubt they'll be the ones leading the protest.

Son Of A Vidic

A new political party could be set up here no problem. But since this is Ireland, things just don't and won't get down.

pablo_escobar

Nailz wrote:

And that's the attitude people take that make you're statement true, ironically.

the government returned from a 12 week summer break, at a time when the country is falling apart.

what makes you think a peaceful protest will accomplish anything?

i advocate civil disobedience because that's all these bankers and politicians at the top of the pyramid understand.

right now, irish people are getting screwed and most seem willing to accept it.

Why don't we form the Boards party? Surely there's enough economists, politicians, and others here to make it feasible.

Max Power1

No I wouldnt protest. I dont see the point in a change of government now.

Between the ineptness and non-inspiring Enda Kenny led fine gael, and the non commital and nonsensical, unfounded policies of labour, led by the "more hot air than a hot air baloon race" Eamon Gilmore, who seems to want to not cut any PS jobs but yet cut PS expenditure; and reduce SW expenditure while increasing the payments to the "vulnerable" in society, I cant see any reason to vote in these muppets over the muppets that are there now. Wont make an iota of difference.

The words "door, horse, bolted" come to mind............

craggles

LukeQuietus wrote: »

I'll try to keep this short and not rant.
Lisbon Treaty. We voted. They didn't like it. We we're forced to vote again. I'd say that alone means we have lost democracy in the country.

No one forced you to vote yes but you would have been fairly thick to vote no out of spite.

I think the only way to have this NAMA thing dismantled and let Anglo Irish go before paying another cent is to have a new party introduced to the Dail.

Anyone who claims that completely letting Anglo Irish go is a good idea is completely retarded. From now on I'll see it as the best indication of an idiot who doesn't know what is going on.

PeterIanStaker

No ideology, party, belief system, individual person or change of govt can "save" the situation. Also, nothing will change. Corruption, gombeenism, mé féin-ism cronyism and jobs for the boys is embedded in the very DNA of the structure.

Its over. Finito. Críochnaithe. Fertig. 完成. Any way you want to say it.


Yes, I am utterly cynical, but at least I don't believe the spin.

LukeQuietus

Sam Vimes wrote: »

How will having another party in the Dail make us exempt from our debts?

I want a new government as much as the next man but I'm not pretending that everything will be rosy when that happens. We'll still owe just as much as we do today

Should we not bother then. We may not be able to change our current debt but we can try and change the government for our children. What's happening in the government now is 99% of them are corrupt and when new people come in with new ideas they either become corrupt or learn to keep quite or they get out like Eddie Hobbs had to do.

When the Irish insisted on having a say in Westminster so they could have a say in Ireland's affairs they met alot of resistance but that was the beginning of our Government and our independence in a way. It meant we had a voice.

I think our current Government are keeping our affairs hidden from us and that definitely needs to change. We should have had some say in NAMA and we didn't. I think we've lost our voice in our own political affairs.

LukeQuietus

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the young intelligent people are the ones who can see why nama was set up, wny anglo is being kept propped up so i doubt they'll be the ones leading the protest.

If Anglo-Irish had been left to deal with it's own losses it would have meant maybe 1000 lost their jobs. However it would have saved us 30 billion.

Instead we have a massive debt that we'll be paying for 20 years and 100s of thousands unemployed. Losing one bank would have been manageable. They should have bailed out everyone else. Construction and manufacturing jobs. I know the point of bailing out the banks was so the banks wouldn't completely clamp down on everyone but they have anyways. NAMA is a huge **** up.

Mark200

I wouldn't want to be seen standing/marching beside people who are saying stupid things like "We don't have democracy" referring to things such as the Lisbon Treaty. There is absolutely nothing un-democratic about putting it up for a vote again. Actually, the fact that the result was different the second time shows that it was RIGHT to put it up for a vote again because clearly peoples opinions changed. Similar to the referendum on divorce. Should the Government not have put that up for a vote a second time?

I couldn't care less if we have an election tomorrow or next year. An election will just lead to distractions, and more political BS than usual. At the moment the parties should be getting together to come up with solutions... elections will cause the opposite. As well as that, I'm not looking forward to a Government in which Labour have significant power. If there was a good alternative to the current Government, maybe I'd want elections. But there isn't, so it's pointless trying to demand them.

Donkey Oaty

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

No ideology, party, belief system, individual person or change of govt can "save" the situation. Also, nothing will change. Corruption, gombeenism, mé féin-ism cronyism and jobs for the boys is embedded in the very DNA of the structure.

Its over. Finito. Críochnaithe. Fertig. 完成. Any way you want to say it.

Google translate gives "complete" as the translation for 完成 in Chinese when used as a verb, but as a noun it has connotations of "perfection" or even "consummation". So in Chinese terms, we're completely fcuked.

Sam Vimes

LukeQuietus wrote: »

Should we not bother then. We may not be able to change our current debt but we can try and change the government for our children.

The only point I was making was that changing our government won't change our debt. I also said that I want a new government as much as the next man

Sam Vimes

Mark200 wrote: »

As well as that, I'm not looking forward to a Government in which Labour have significant power.

Me neither. I was for a Fine Gael/Labour government but it's increasingly looking like Labour might get a majority and they don't seem to have any ideas beyond moaning about the government and pie in the sky notions about paying our debts without any cuts.

LukeQuietus

Mark200 wrote: »

I wouldn't want to be seen standing/marching beside people who are saying stupid things like "We don't have democracy" referring to things such as the Lisbon Treaty. There is absolutely nothing un-democratic about putting it up for a vote again. Actually, the fact that the result was different the second time shows that it was RIGHT to put it up for a vote again because clearly peoples opinions changed. Similar to the referendum on divorce. Should the Government not have put that up for a vote a second time?

I couldn't care less if we have an election tomorrow or next year. An election will just lead to distractions, and more political BS than usual. At the moment the parties should be getting together to come up with solutions... elections will cause the opposite. As well as that, I'm not looking forward to a Government in which Labour have significant power. If there was a good alternative to the current Government, maybe I'd want elections. But there isn't, so it's pointless trying to demand them.

Why don't we vote on everything twice then? You say we shouldn't have political distraction that waste time but you're fine with voting twice on everything that doesn't get a desired result for the EU and Fianna Fail. Maybe the next general election should be held twice incase people make the wrong decision the first time. Maybe we should scrutinize past elections...

I'd prefer have a NEW government. None of the parties in the Dail right now have any interest in doing anything but shout and bitch at eachother and get themselves in the paper or on the TV. Same **** every day.

You're "it's pointless trying" attitude is why you'll never stand for anything. You're a coward. I wouldn't want to stand beside or march beside you either because you'd give up when it got difficult. You've already said you think trying is pointless.

ScumLord

I wouldn't protest, it's completely pointless no matter what anybody thinks, at most you might do some networking and make some new loopy friends.

It's not like the government don't know what people think they've heard it all, the time for protesting is over.
I would join a local action group however and take part in organised meetings on a national scale but random protesting over any little thing with no thought put into any solutions won't do a thing. All your doing is venting anger from the safety of the mob it really is a waste of time.

bobblepuzzle

Mark200 wrote: »

I wouldn't want to be seen standing/marching beside people who are saying stupid things like "We don't have democracy" referring to things such as the Lisbon Treaty. There is absolutely nothing un-democratic about putting it up for a vote again. Actually, the fact that the result was different the second time shows that it was RIGHT to put it up for a vote again because clearly peoples opinions changed. Similar to the referendum on divorce. Should the Government not have put that up for a vote a second time?

I couldn't care less if we have an election tomorrow or next year. An election will just lead to distractions, and more political BS than usual. At the moment the parties should be getting together to come up with solutions... elections will cause the opposite. As well as that, I'm not looking forward to a Government in which Labour have significant power. If there was a good alternative to the current Government, maybe I'd want elections. But there isn't, so it's pointless trying to demand them.

Seriously, do you not believe its a slap in the face to the Irish electorate to be voting until the government get the answer they want?

Also, how many of the people who voted 'No' to Lisbon actually voted again?? The 'Yes' side certainly came out in force the second time around...

Don't get me wrong, I support the Lisbon treaty but I don't support the government treating people like that.

Pherekydes

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Me neither. I was for a Fine Gael/Labour government but it's increasingly looking like Labour might get a majority...

LOL, Labour won't get an overall majority. They won't even have 83 candidates entered, never mind getting ALL of them elected.

Jev/N

LukeQuietus wrote: »

I'll try to keep this short and not rant.

Lisbon Treaty. We voted. They didn't like it. We we're forced to vote again. I'd say that alone means we have lost democracy in the country. I for one feel as though I have no say in what happens in the country. The people should run the government. Not the other way around.

The opposition is the other side of the same coin. They neither want power or have anything to offer. They're in the same corrupt bowl as Fianna FAIL.

I think the only way to have this NAMA thing dismantled and let Anglo Irish go before paying another cent is to have a new party introduced to the Dail. A party of this generation. All I see in the Dail is old men and women who live in the higher class and look down on us. They have conservative views and care more about what the EU big shots think about them than the opinions of their own countries people.

I'm not one of those "up the RA arseholes and I'm not interested in rioting or a violent revolution. I've also no interst in being in politics myself. But I do think we need change. When the republic was formed it was done so by people who understood the hardships of that time. So it makes sense that now we need a government of people who've also suffered the hardships of now. I doubt anyone in the Dail is struggling to pay bills or make end's meet. They see it from a different point of view completely.

To summarize:
No violence. People willing to hold large peaceful protests and maybe the creation of a new political party of YOUNG intelligent open-minded people who have ideas on how to improve things and drive to follow it through if it seems change is impossible any other way.

You lost me here... it's not as easy as just stopping something once it's started - there's no quick fix or quick reversion

LukeQuietus wrote: »

Why don't we vote on everything twice then? You say we shouldn't have political distraction that waste time but you're fine with voting twice on everything that doesn't get a desired result for the EU and Fianna Fail. Maybe the next general election should be held twice incase people make the wrong decision the first time. Maybe we should scrutinize past elections...

I'd prefer have a NEW government. None of the parties in the Dail right now have any interest in doing anything but shout and bitch at eachother and get themselves in the paper or on the TV. Same **** every day.

You're "it's pointless trying" attitude is why you'll never stand for anything. You're a coward. I wouldn't want to stand beside or march beside you either because you'd give up when it got difficult. You've already said you think trying is pointless.

Most of the major parties supported it!

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

Why don't we form the Boards party? Surely there's enough economists, politicians, and others here to make it feasible.

Item 1 on the agenda: The split.

Pherekydes

dvpower wrote: »

Item 1 on the agenda: The split.

You, you'll burst the party wide open...:mad:

If you go against the party whip will you get sitebanned? :pac:

Sam Vimes

Pherekydes wrote: »

LOL, Labour won't get an overall majority. They won't even have 83 candidates entered, never mind getting ALL of them elected.

Well that's alright then

LukeQuietus

Jev/N wrote: »

Most of the major parties supported it!

Well that fills me with confidence then.

LukeQuietus

craggles wrote: »

No one forced you to vote yes but you would have been fairly thick to vote no out of spite.

I voted no because I actually read the treaty. There's alot wrong with it more than the scapegoats the government focused on like corporation tax. There's benefits sure, but it's far from the treaty we're led to believe it would be. Jobs. My ass! There's nothing in it about jobs or any of the other poster slogans campaigned with.

LukeQuietus

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Seriously, do you not believe its a slap in the face to the Irish electorate to be voting until the government get the answer they want?

Also, how many of the people who voted 'No' to Lisbon actually voted again?? The 'Yes' side certainly came out in force the second time around...

Exactly. I know alot of people who voted yes and no refused to vote again out of outrage. Making people vote twice like they did can never get an accurate democratic outcome.

Sandvich

craggles wrote: »

Anyone who claims that completely letting Anglo Irish go is a good idea is completely retarded. From now on I'll see it as the best indication of an idiot who doesn't know what is going on.

Why don't you explain why when it comes up instead acting all smug? You're not helping your case and not giving anyone reason to change their minds, whether you're right or wrong.

The countries ****ed and people think that this is an acceptable attitude to take when informing people what's going on. ****'s sake, no wonder.

sonic85

to be honest we have enough dishonest cheating me feiner political parties knocking around at the minute and now people want to add another one? good way of adding to our woes. 90% of politicians are only out for number 1 - what would a new party do for us?

PanchoVilla

I was actually thinking about something like an Irish citizen's or resident's union. This union would include all the disaffected people of Ireland and organize them under one banner. It wouldn't be a political party, more of a lobby group composed of Irish residents (as opposed to citizens as I believe foreign nationals also have a right to speak in this country). Union decisions would be made from the bottom, not the top down.

As such, this union would not be constrained by party politics and would be free to make the right decisions this country so desperately needs. Local/regional union leaders would be elected not appointed. They would not be paid a salary, the position would be entirely voluntary. I have some other ideas regarding a resident's union but I'll leave that for another thread.

greenmachine88

we shouldn't have governence we should burn this mother****er down!

sonic85

storm the dail? :pac:

starbelgrade

PanchoVilla wrote: »

I was actually thinking about something like an Irish citizen's or resident's union. This union would include all the disaffected people of Ireland and organize them under one banner.

That already exists. They're called Joe Duffy's listenership.

Misanthrope

Absolutely!I'll even help bury the bodies of the old government after ther firing squad are through with them.

Finders keepers on wallets watches jewellery and gold fillings though.

starbelgrade

No. But I would vote for one.