National Government

yahoo_moe

From polls and anecdotal evidence, there seems to be a good section of the population with little or no grá for any of the three big parties and the idea of having to choose one of the three leaders as the next Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny today ruled out a renewal of the Tallaght strategy, claiming that it lost FG votes last time around. Not strictly true, as the results show that they gained 5 seats and got an extra 2.2% of the vote in the 1989 election.

So... not that it'll happen, but who'd be in favour of a national unity government, now or after the next election, where the party whip is no longer the force it currently is and proposals are voted on according to their merits, rather than their origins?

Liam Byrne

If the national government was based on 99% new faces and none of the current corrupt/incompetent ones, then I'd be all for it.

Most of the current ones have probably forgotten how to vote unless instructed by a party whip.

I'd give Shane Ross the task of choosing the members.

yahoo_moe

Seems we're the only two unfortunately. Maybe Friday afternoon's not the time for this kind of thread

I'll be voting Independent again next time around, I just wish more constituencies had viable Independent candidates so we could mix things up in the Dail a bit.

gollem_1975

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Seems we're the only two unfortunately. Maybe Friday afternoon's not the time for this kind of thread

I'll be voting Independent again next time around, I just wish more constituencies had viable Independent candidates so we could mix things up in the Dail a bit.

So Is your preference for independent candidates or for a National government ? aren't they conflicting positions i.e. independents are more likely to be elected on local issues rather than national governance issues.

on the other hand i'm not sure that a list system for Ireland would be any better. there is no doubt that the politicians are closer to the electorate than they are in european countries. i.e. constituents can get in their faces quite easily.
bertie ahern would be an example..you could walk up to him in a pub around drumcondra (not that I ever did mind you). A few years back I saw Brian Lenihan on Dublin Bus on his own(no i didn't get a smell of garlic)
Its not as easy to get near the government politicians in other European countries without going through handlers /security etc.
I think in a list system the politicians would be more distant from their constituents.. but then again that "distance" might allow them to make better policy decisions.

I also don't believe that Irish politicians are as out of touch with the public mood as some commentators would have us believe. Out of their depth maybe - but not out of touch.

Callan57

yahoo_moe wrote: »

From polls and anecdotal evidence, there seems to be a good section of the population with little or no grá for any of the three big parties and the idea of having to choose one of the three leaders as the next Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny today ruled out a renewal of the Tallaght strategy, claiming that it lost FG votes last time around. Not strictly true, as the results show that they gained 5 seats and got an extra 2.2% of the vote in the 1989 election.

So... not that it'll happen, but who'd be in favour of a national unity government, now or after the next election, where the party whip is no longer the force it currently is and proposals are voted on according to their merits, rather than their origins?

Only on the condition that anyone associated with the destruction of the Irish economy & the selling out of The Republic was emphatically excluded.

yahoo_moe

gollem_1975 wrote: »

So Is your preference for independent candidates or for a National government ? aren't they conflicting positions

Yup, two different positions. Ultimately I'd most like a parliament full of Independents or small, loose party groupings. Roman Senate style really - there'd obviously be alliances but not on the scale of the 'two and a half big parties and feck all else' model we have now with very few people voting outside the whip.

But given how far off that is, I'd still rather a national unity government to the partisan 'opposition for the sake of opposition and a good soundbite' that's there at the moment. I get that Kenny's just after power but it's still insidious to suggest that the Tallaght strategy cost FG votes when it didn't.

For what it's worth though, I think a list system (or automatic re-election for Cabinet ministers or something) would help get away from some of the problems that constituency politics produces.

Benito

yahoo_moe wrote: »

From polls and anecdotal evidence, there seems to be a good section of the population with little or no grá for any of the three big parties and the idea of having to choose one of the three leaders as the next Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny today ruled out a renewal of the Tallaght strategy, claiming that it lost FG votes last time around. Not strictly true, as the results show that they gained 5 seats and got an extra 2.2% of the vote in the 1989 election.

So... not that it'll happen, but who'd be in favour of a national unity government, now or after the next election, where the party whip is no longer the force it currently is and proposals are voted on according to their merits, rather than their origins?

A national government is nothing more than a dictatorship and would copper-fasten the political elite in power. We have a very weak opposition and please don't add in the social partners, after all we had these f*****s from IBEC and the unions on the board of FAS. did they ever call 'FOUL' at the waste? I'm quoting from the OP and spelling is check is not on offer, so what is the proper spelling of 'nomenclatura'?

oppenheimer1

yahoo_moe wrote: »

From polls and anecdotal evidence, there seems to be a good section of the population with little or no grá for any of the three big parties and the idea of having to choose one of the three leaders as the next Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny today ruled out a renewal of the Tallaght strategy, claiming that it lost FG votes last time around. Not strictly true, as the results show that they gained 5 seats and got an extra 2.2% of the vote in the 1989 election.

So... not that it'll happen, but who'd be in favour of a national unity government, now or after the next election, where the party whip is no longer the force it currently is and proposals are voted on according to their merits, rather than their origins?

Ruling out a new Tallaght strategy tells you all you want to know about Enda Kenny. He cares nothing about the national interest only his own vanity in wanting to be Taoiseach.

InchicoreDude

Ruling out a new Tallaght strategy tells you all you want to know about Enda Kenny. He cares nothing about the national interest only his own vanity in wanting to be Taoiseach.

Dont think I would agree with this to be honest. A national governement would be a total get out clause for FF & the greens. Not really sure they deserve that. I can see why Fine Gael & Labour think an election should be held. If the result of the election is not conclusive, then a national government should be considered.
Would a national governement really be a good thing at the moment? FF & FG members trying to work together when they are always sniping at each other? I am not so sure...

Godge

Fianna Fail have been in power except for a short period since 1987.

That is too long for the good of any democracy. The last years of Thatcher and the last years of Blair/Brown demonstrate that in our near neighbour. The latter end of the second terms of Reagan, Clinton and Bush demonstrate that in the US.

At the next election, the only way to vote is along the lines of least likely to coalesce with FF. That means giving FG a first preference vote.

silverstrand

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Dont think I would agree with this to be honest. A national governement would be a total get out clause for FF & the greens. Not really sure they deserve that. I can see why Fine Gael & Labour think an election should be held. If the result of the election is not conclusive, then a national government should be considered.
Would a national governement really be a good thing at the moment? FF & FG members trying to work together when they are always sniping at each other? I am not so sure...

A national government is an emergency situation and would be called on due to a collapse such as we now have (both politically and economic) The main collapse is at corporate levels and in government and there is a severe broken line of both integrity and ability. Both are now waiting proper solution and respectable questioning, questioning that oppression or media manipulation will not make go away. Respectable to the nation its people and its history, not the individuals involved.

It would be necessary to field a open collective agenda for the greater good as in a crises and to leave ideology aside but not off the table. Having it for a set number of years and using the highest able people to support and advise (Hired) for their ability and credible record. With an election date set.

One condition though that parties like FG and Labour and New or Sinn Fein plus independents would be required to reform politics in Ireland. It did not work and it became easy for media to manipulate and create agendas that allowed electorate to be continually fooled. Mainly because they were not getting their information anywhere else and there the Politics ruthlessly failed the Irish People. So it has to be reformed and compelled to do so.

There is no other solution. Even if another party gets in the will not provide strong government it will not have the courage to address any of the issues required. Politics has been broken from years of abuse and any government going in to fix that would want to be very very tough. A collective would have the cross support and would be get international support for difficult issues such as investigations and using connections and hiring good economic advise. There are a lot of issues and international agendas at play.

If we could get constructive unity behind a planned national government with a fixed term. A least we would have a move made

Another reason Irish people are new to democracy and have played the game very badly. As would be expected given our situation and politics is a vunerabl game to corruption and abuse. We need to look at it as see what we want it to be and take the highest road to give example as we have done in our far away past. This needs time and lots of people getting involved and Party politics changing and evolving.

The only way I would support a National government is through consensus on all parties (government past and present except-conflict of interest etc) and with the support discussion and involvement of the president and the army in making such a decision. It must be done in a proper and upstanding manner that gives unity and confidence. Not more dodgy agendas.

What are the chances of anything that sophisticated. Not looking good thats for sure