Drilling or Cutting?

OddysAirsoft

Ok so I have just ordered a new gun which will need down-grading and I was wondering which technique is the very best - spring change with possible clipping of spring or the drilling of the air nozzle or cylinder


So come on all you gun tech - Masada, Lefty etc and give me your view on this - pros and cons!

cheers lads

Stonewolf

spring, definitely the spring, accept no substitutes

Daz1214

i wouldnt even consider drilling the nozzle on a gun like that, those guns field strip so a spring change is a simple job

but the retailer you buy it from should donwgrade it before you collect it and knowing the retailer in question, that will be done for you

Puding

FRUoddy wrote: »

Ok so I have just ordered a new gun which will need down-grading and I was wondering which technique is the very best - spring change with possible clipping of spring or the drilling of the air nozzle or cylinder


So come on all you gun tech - Masada, Lefty etc and give me your view on this - pros and cons!

cheers lads

well first it should be downgraded before going into customs to avoid issues, if it is got inside Ireland it should be done already, if you do by in Ireland check it has not been drilled before buying

I would always recommend buying a spring and changing then out, I find all the othere short cut methods to be unreliable and counter productive in the long run

Solid Snake

Spring change!

Don't even go messing with drilling. To drill it properly and leave no swarf you'd need to open it up anyway. Since you'll have to open it then you're better off just fitting the new spring.

Best of luck.

Stercus Accidit

A well done cut job on a spring will last as long as a bought spring, a drilled nozzle will reduce rof and increase wear on the aeg as that strong spring is still being used wearing all the parts interacting with it.

A drilled nozzle is a short term fix, you should then replace nozzle and spring.

OddysAirsoft

The reason I ask is that if i am going to spend big money on a very high end aeg I want to make sure that it's downgraded in the very best possible manner. now after doing some very extensive research on how guns are downgraded their seems to be a very divided tech community to which method ids best with both camps able to put pros and cons for their preferred method!

If it was a case that one method was infinitely better than the other I would rather have the gun downgraded by my preferred method

As said there seems to be a very mixed camp out there `(although not obvious on here :rolleyes: ) that are able to argue why there method is best.

Puding

I'm sorry there is no benefit to drilling

Stercus Accidit

There is no benefit to drilling other than its easy and quick.

There is still a strong spring straining the motor and piston, whacking the gearbox each shot, slowing your rof and draining your battery quicker and you have potential burrs of plastic from the drilling all over the place, and inconsistent fps as air is pissed out a hole in the air seal nozzle.

Changing or cutting the spring is the proper way to reduce power output, but takes some actual effort.

Debate the benefits of a bodge downgrade if you like, but one method is infinitely better than the other, as it is a proper job rather than intentionally damaging a system to reduce its efficiency.

NakedDex

There are pro's and con's to cutting or drilling, and a divided camp as to which of the two is the better option. However, the best of either is still the lesser of two evils.

Change the spring. It's the by far and away the best option. Modifying an existing part to change it's performance is never going to be as reliable or consistant as replacing the part with one designed to do the job. A decent spring isn't all that pricey anyway, €10-€15 would cover it.

OddysAirsoft

Some of the best gun techs drill......So naturally I just wondered what everyone else thought.

And this is what's wrong with forums everywhere, where people with very little knowledge of a subject make huge sweeping statements with no experience or hard evidence or indeed thought process involved in their conclusions.

I have had a contact with KWA who think spring changes can and do lead to serious problems such as gear timing issues when certain batteries are used.

Some of the top companies WHO MAKE THE GUNS feel that drilling can be a better alternative to spring changes!

Debate the benefits of a bodge downgrade if you like

And this is what I mean. Drilling is an industry standard in most Airsoft countries- it is not a 'bodge' method - just one that you may not like.

Puding

Some of the best gun techs drill......So naturally I just wondered what everyone else thought.

And this is what's wrong with forums everywhere, where people with very little knowledge of a subject make huge sweeping statements with no experience or hard evidence or indeed thought process involved in their conclusions.

what techs? any not associated with a shop?, all you have to do to answer this question is see how they downgrade there own equipment, you would be hard pressed to find a tech worth his salt happy with it

I have had a contact with KWA who think spring changes can and do lead to serious problems such as gear timing issues when certain batteries are used.

Some of the top companies WHO MAKE THE GUNS feel that drilling can be a better alternative to spring changes!

kwa aegs are tuned for a specific market, they have aegs for the use market at 400fps and aeg for the 1 joule market, not all kwa m4 for example are the same although a lot of the retailers do not tell you this, if you do change a spring a kwa 400fps m4 you can get problems with timing this is true, but that is why there is a 1 joule model avaliable to shops,

drilling will just mean your still pulling that massive spring causing extra wear and tear and you need an 11.1 just to get the same rof as a 1j spring a a decent 9.6v mini

And this is what I mean. Drilling is an industry standard in most Airsoft countries- it is not a 'bodge' method - just one that you may not like.

sorry what country? i have the opposite experience, i;ve had retailers and airsot abroad laugh about this


Im feed up with this crap about drilling and aegs, yes it is fast and cheap, that is why retialors will want to use it, i;ve spent to many hours fixing aeg and listing to the crap that is given to customer

My favorite example is a young boy who had got his first aeg but it was shooting bellow and then over the limit in a very inconsistent manner, had a look noticed it was drilled. Explained to the guy his options as it was only new i recommended he went back to the shop. He went back to the shop and waited a couple of weeks for the work to be done, he came back down to the site and was still getting massive jumps in fps but know between 200fps and 250fps. Had another look, and could need see a drill hole so thought it could be another issue to do with the piston do he wanted me to have a look, took it apart and found they had just made the hole in the cylinder larger and rotated the cylinder so the hole was pointing down allowing the air to escape past the trigger assembly but allow the hole to remain hidden, just one example.

NakedDex

It has a bad reputation here from clone companies drilling the nozzle poorly, giving erratic performance and regular failure. The solution was always a new air nozzle and spring.

I have to say, I've never heard of, or seen, any of the high end companies shipping an AEG with a drilled cylinder or nozzle. From both a mechanical and pneumatic point of view, I can't see a single advantage to doing so.
That said, I've had few dealings with KWA AEGs so I can't comment on their practices.

OddysAirsoft

Will defo go for a new spring for the downgrade i will bow to the overwhelming majority just to play it safe!

Stercus Accidit

FRUoddy wrote: »

Some of the best gun techs drill......So naturally I just wondered what everyone else thought.

And this is what's wrong with forums everywhere, where people with very little knowledge of a subject make huge sweeping statements with no experience or hard evidence or indeed thought process involved in their conclusions.

Some of us have been working on our aegs as long as these techs have, we just havn't ended up doing it full time.

Yours is a huge sweeping statement, mine is based on knowledge of these guns from my own experience working on them, I used to do it for money and all, if that makes my opinion any more valid.

Drilling is done because it is quick and easy, in a business environment, that is seen as a good option and the saving is passed on to the consumer, a spring change is the prefered option without a loss in efficiency or performance.

I have had a contact with KWA who think spring changes can and do lead to serious problems such as gear timing issues when certain batteries are used.

Some of the top companies WHO MAKE THE GUNS feel that drilling can be a better alternative to spring changes!

Gear timing? Why did you even ask here if you are going to slag people for trying to help you, gear timing only comes into play at 30 rps or so and is super high rof territory. I am amazed at how indignant your responce is when we are trying to help you.

I know a lad in KWA and he said I'm right and you are wrong, so there

And this is what I mean. Drilling is an industry standard in most Airsoft countries- it is not a 'bodge' method - just one that you may not like.

I don't like it because it achieves lower power through intentional inneficiency, it is standard as it is quick and allows lower costs to importers.

Take the advice you asked for as you will, I'm out.

OddysAirsoft

Will defo go for a new spring for the downgrade i will bow to the overwhelming majority just to play it safe!

As I had already said Stercus, I had already made up my mind before you tried to slate me -again!

All I did was ask a couple of questions and you get that same teacher-look down their nose-attitude that's condescending to the highest degree eg

Debate the benefits of a bodge downgrade if you like, but one method is infinitely better than the other, as it is a proper job rather than intentionally damaging a system to reduce its efficiency

Comments like this get up peoples noses - I WAS ONLY TRYING TO HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT TwO LEGITIMATE METHODS of downgrading guns making a note that both methodologies have their supporters and their detractors.

As for KWA...I'll return their email from their HQ and tell them it's b@llox as Stercus said so.........:rolleyes:

Next time I will keep my questions to myself and just pm the guys I know will give me a decent answer with out trying to make me out a tw@t!

andy_g

Ah yes who has the larger handbag discussion. We all have our answer lets build a bridge and move on.
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