moving the meter

RJC

Hi,

I had an old internal meter and got my service disconnected in order to start construction on a domestic house extension (€89.00 charge). The man comes out and takes away my meter and tells me that my new one will have to go outside (no problems).

I am now getting to the stage where I will have to have the power re-connected (€99) and I have been hit with another charge of €397.00 for 'moving the meter'.

Before everybody retreats to the sidelines and says that it is not their baby and is a 'networks' charge I have the following points:

I don't (and didn't) want to move my meter. I'm only doing it because the Man told me it had to be placed outside. Now I'm being stung for €397 for the pleasure of facilitating him (don't mind the cost of the box, the contractor and so on). It benefits the ESB (for meter readings) so I don't see how I have to stump up for it.

From polling others this charge seems recent or isn't applied on a consistent basis. I have heard that the charge isn't applied when you are moving the meter from inside to out as it facilitates the meter reading. Others have said that the charge has escalated from about €190 to the current level.

What I want to know is is there a mechanism whereby I can present my case so that the charge can be appealed and waived? If this is not possible then can I get a smart meter installed?

I have no problems with the disconnection and re-connection fees as these were presented up-front to me and I understand that they represent the cost of the Man in the yellow van visiting the site to disconnect/reconnect.

this charge (€397) just strikes me as being a 'local tax'. I am making life easier for everyone by shifting the meter outside but seem to be paying for being so helpful.

ESB CS: Chris

Hi RJC,

I appreciate the points you raised in your post. I can imagine constructing a house is a very expensive time and you are anxious to keep all the costs under control.

You mentioned in your post that this is a Networks charge, and for this reason, I do not have information on why or how it is charged. However I can arrange for somebody from ESB Networks to contact you, if you would like to PM me your account number or Meter Point Reference Number.

On the ESB Networks website here, there is information on the type of job you had carried out. There is also a link to the list of charges. These charges are regulated by the Commission for Energy Regulation (www.cer.ie) carry out reviews of ESB Networks costs and charges.

ESB Networks also have a document which stipulates the specification for meter cabinets here.

We are currently running a trial of Smart Metering with a number of our customers. Unfortunately, this is currently closed to new participants, however if we are looking for more participants, we will post information here.

Many thanks
Chris

RJC

Hi and thanks for the prompt reply -

I like the empathy at the start - a good tactic when delivering negative news.

My guess is that the following is the situation:

A rule is created in the organisation (in this case ESB networks). the rule in this instance is in answer to the following business question:

What is the simplest charging rule we can levy to domestic customers for service alterations allowing for the broad spectrum of situations we encounter (from the rural hill farmer to the inner city apartment). The answer is charge €397 for everything.

And, if the regulator is involved somebody probably has a spreadsheet showing where this comes from (a cover my ass sort of thing, if you will).

As a consumer/customer I have this rule applied to me and I think:

Hey! That's not right. I didn't request the moving of my meter, the ESB did. I was perfectly happy with it where it was.

(I'm using the term ESB generically here for the utility company who runs the supply network - we understand what I mean).

Now what will happen is as follows:

The section of the organisation (ESB networks) charged with enforcing the rule will have been given discresionary advice on how to deal with appeals and exceptions. they'll waive the charge and the world will be right.

or (the more likely scenario)

This section will be told the rule is the rule is the rule and must be enforced no matter what. To do otherwise would be to push subjective judgements of customers individual situations down the food chain of ESB networks or to have a senior manager sign off on all waivers and appeals (senior managers hate doing this and it is much easier to tell the staff to tell the customer to submit a written appeal or some other 'kick to touch' process). This approach tothe rule will be applied to me and it will end with me saying something like: 'But I didn't want to move my meter, you made me do it' and then them saying something like 'If you are unhappy you can always appeal to Mr. X of the CER'

I will then engage in some sort of 'appeal' to the CER or the ombudsman which will take months and everybody will hope I go away or lose interest.

On top of this I have to get the power back on in the next few weeks and the ESB (the network arm) know this. They have me over a barrel on this charge as I either pay it or have no power. So any appeal would be taking place in an environment where I've paid this charge.

I'll PM you my MPRN number so they can phone me but if it is just to send me out fliers and circulars I don't see the point. The existence of the charge is not really the point. It is the validity of the application of the charge where the movement of the meter is at the request of the ESB and not the customer.

ESB CS: Chris

Thanks RJC, I have received your PM .

ESB Networks is a separate company who serve all Electricity customers. They are responsible for the maintenence and repair of the network and take care of everything, up to and including your meter. From meter reading to meter alterations, such the one you have had carried out, ESB Networks take care of it, no matter which supplier you are with.

I have asked them to contact you to discuss the points you raised. I would expect you to hear from them shortly. They will clarify why you were asked to move your meter and any metering standards which are in place and have to be adhered to when alterations to a meter are carried out.

Many thanks
Chris

bassey

I don't know the details but it could also be the fact that from moving the meter box the service cables from the traffo may not be long enough to reach the new meter position and so new cables may have to be run in and this is quite expensive to do. Just a thought

Zen65

RJC wrote: »

I don't (and didn't) want to move my meter.

I followed everything up to this sentence, and after reading it a few times I still don't understand it. If you didn't want the meter moved why did you ask them to disconnect it?

Z

Jennyrose

Hi. I've had a similar situation. I am participating in the smart meter programme on the invitation of the ESB. I allowed 2 very pleasant men into the house to take the old one away and install the new one.

During the course of the installation, they informed me that the wires extending to the original fuse board to my new meter were the old type and that I should get my electrician to replace them. They also said that I wasn't earthed and that also would need to be done.

I asked them could they replace the wire and they said they couldn't as they were only responsible for the supply to the front door and no further.

This, as they were standing in my hallway installing their new meter.

A bill from my sparks for this comes to over 300 quid not including the making good for plastering up the new works.

This contradiction really shags me off as I am helping out ESB in the metering and also doing my best trying to reduce my bills and so on.

Electric Ireland: David

Hi Jennyrose,

I can understand your frustration; you couldn't have expected to incur any such costs prior to the installation.

Jennyrose wrote:

I asked them could they replace the wire and they said they couldn't as they were only responsible for the supply to the front door and no further.

This, as they were standing in my hallway installing their new meter.

ESB Networks are responsible for the electricity supply up to, and inclusive of, the meter itself; anything beyond that is the domain of the spark, so to speak. Normally the meter is 'at the front door' (loosely put), but a significant proportion of premises around the country still have their meters located inside the house.

On this occasion, it's unfortunate that more work was involved than was initially anticipated. It's similar to getting your car serviced (say, to have an oil leak fixed), and then being told your clutch is about to go. While there are certainly scammers and cowboys out there, sometimes this information is genuine, and can prevent greater problems down the line.

However, the difference between the above analogy and this situation is that ESB Networks don't stand to profit from the required internal alterations. But I definitely appreciate your point; you were, after, only doing your best to co-operate.

I do hope the smart meter is working out well for you; we really do appreciate the efforts you've made to accommodate us, and if you have any issues at all, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Thanks,

David.

RJC

bassey wrote: »

I don't know the details but it could also be the fact that from moving the meter box the service cables from the traffo may not be long enough to reach the new meter position and so new cables may have to be run in and this is quite expensive to do. Just a thought

Jargon buster - what is a traffo?

RJC

Zen65 wrote: »

I followed everything up to this sentence, and after reading it a few times I still don't understand it. If you didn't want the meter moved why did you ask them to disconnect it?

Z

disconnection and moving the meter are - from my understanding of things - separate issues. Disconnection taking place where you want to carry out extensive works to your house (my situation) and moving the meter for a variety of other reasons.

In my situation, I needed the disconnection but was told I wouldn't get re-connection unless the meter was moved (i.e. conditinal re-connection). I understand whay this is done - the Network crowd are trying to move all meters to an outside reading position and short of launching a national scheme to do this they have an opportunistic approach of moving meters when they can. County Council's do something similar with septic tanks when you apply for planning permssion for a house extension - they put a planning condition on the permission making you up-grade the septic tank system.

My issue with this was that I didn't want the meter moved - the ESB did - but I have to pay. If I'd known about the charge I'd have challenged it before the disconnected but as it is now I am over a barrel so it is pay or no power.

ESB CS: Chris

Hi RJC,

I have spoken with your local ESB Networks office and they have advised me that somebody will contact you about this matter. You may have already spoken to them at this stage.

According to the ESB Networks website, these are the steps that need to be followed when you need to have work carried out on your meter here. I have copied in the section below. These are the steps that should have been followed before a job such as this can be carried out.

1. Call ESB Networks at 1850 372 757 and make a request to get your meter moved. Note: When calling this number please quote the Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) for your connection. The MPRN number is a unique 11 digit reference number that tells us exactly where you are on the electricity network and is displayed on your bill.
2. We will send you a quotation (with a quotation number). You must attach a cheque made payable to "ESB Networks" and return it to: ESB Networks, Sean Mulvoy Road, Galway.
3. We will require an E.T.C.I. Certificate which will be provided by your electrical contractor on completion of the wiring to the new meter. A notification of this validated wiring certificate from your contractor's regulatory body must be received electronically by ESB Networks before work is started by us.

I am sorry that we cannot be of more assistance with this matter here in ESB Customer Supply, but I would expect somebody from ESB Networks to clarify the questions you raised.

Many thanks
Chris

RJC

Hi,

I'm sorted on this one.

I was just following up with calrifications.

Thanks

bassey

RJC wrote: »

Jargon buster - what is a traffo?

A traffo is a transformer. Used to Bring the 10000 or 20000 volts that is supplied to your local area down to the 230 volts thats used in your house.