Roundabouts. Again....

brownej

On the Above map (N19 dock road interchange Limerick) if I am coming from the roundabout on the left and approaching the roundabout on the right and I wish to go around the roundabout and take the third exit onto the dual carriageway.
What lane should I be in? The outer (left) or the inner lane (right) on the roundabout?
The reason I ask as the guard that pulled me over after I beeped him:eek: for pulling out directly infront of me (no flashers or siren, he was coming down the dock road on the right approaching the roaundabout), I should have been in the outer lane (left) going around the roundabout. He lectured me about the rules of the road, I disagreed but he told me to go get a copy and learn them. I didn't get a ticket or anything but was just late for work.
On a side note when I asked him for his name he wouldn't give it to me. Can he refuse to give me his name?

biko

On the second (right) RB you should be in the right lane since you're going to use an exit after "12 o'clock".
If there are markings then you should go by them.

Cookie_Monster

if coming from the left roundabout the third exit leads up to the pink highlighted area... (though the first exit is really entry only)

Should be in the right hand lane as the exit is after 12 o clock position ie is at about 4 o clock position.

Idleater

You were indicating to go around to the third exit weren't you? If you approached the second roundabout in the RHS lane without your indicators on and then turned right, then arguably the Guard had a right to inform you to read the rules of the road.

Of course, (s)he should also brush up on them, because even if you did not indicate, you were on the roundabout and it is the duty of those not yet on the roundabout to yield to those on it (two wrongs don't make a right).

brownej

nereid wrote: »

You were indicating to go around to the third exit weren't you? If you approached the second roundabout in the RHS lane without your indicators on and then turned right, then arguably the Guard had a right to inform you to read the rules of the road.

Of course, (s)he should also brush up on them, because even if you did not indicate, you were on the roundabout and it is the duty of those not yet on the roundabout to yield to those on it (two wrongs don't make a right).

Yes I was in the right lane indicating right on the roundabout and just after I changed to indicate left he pulled out. I couldn't see if his indicators were on based on the angle of the car.
He informed me that I should only have been in that lane if I was going back the way I came.
He wasn't a trafic cop either. It was an armed response unit. I'm guessing rules of the road aren't a priority for them. They're more concerned with far more serios offences. For my future reference I must remember that I shouldn't beep at an armed response unit no matter what sort of driving they do.
I'm under no illusion that the reason he pulled me in was for beeping at him.

Recently I've been taking a far less tolerent attitude to other road users. If they do something wrong or dangerous right infront of me I'll let them know. This morning when the squad car pulled out I thought to myself if an ordinary car did that I'd beep them so why should a garda car in non emergency driving be treated any differently. I said this to him too (which probably didn't help). Come to think of it he didn't react too well when I pulled out a pen and paper and asked him to show me what I did wrong. I really don't know when to keep my mouth shut.

third exit = right lane unless road markings indicate otherwise.

corktina

you should just have told him you sounded your horn to warn him of your presence as you believed he had not seen you. Assuming th lane markings etc are standard, it sounds to me as if you were in the right lane.

brownej

corktina wrote: »

you should just have told him you sounded your horn to warn him of your presence as you believed he had not seen you. Assuming th lane markings etc are standard, it sounds to me as if you were in the right lane.

I was sure I was in the right (correct) lane but the way he kept going on made me rethink how to go around roundabouts.
There are no arrows on the road just lane lines.
I might pop into the station this evening after work and clarify the situation. Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone. He gave me his badge number but not his name.

sentient_6

Your approaching the right roundabout from the lane with 4050.0 marked over it? To me the 3rd exit with the purple further down it is pretty much exactly 12 o'clock from where your approaching. Or am i missing something? Cookie_Monster where you getting 4?

Id be in the left lane here & just indicate left when taking the exit.

Idleater

corktina wrote: »

Assuming th lane markings etc are standard, it sounds to me as if you were in the right lane.

Agreed, IMO (and thanks to your clarification above) I see no need to doubt your own actions, apart perhaps from beeping at the Garda.

While they are not immune to the rules of the road, they are the only ones that can stop you and interrupt your own journey whenever they wish and they may do so if they feel the need somehow to reassert their authority on a situation even if they are the ones to blame. So perhaps in future Beeping at a Garda car should be perhaps given a second thought.

Mc Love

You beeped a guard?

brownej

sentient_6 wrote: »

Your approaching the right roundabout from the lane with 4050.0 marked over it? To me the 3rd exit with the purple further down it is pretty much exactly 12 o'clock from where your approaching. Or am i missing something? Cookie_Monster where you getting 4?

Id be in the left lane here & just indicate left when taking the exit.

I was going to the exit at 4 o'clock. The first exit is the off ramp for the dual carriageway (limerick tunnel). I was taking the third exit onto the dual carriageway but it was the fourth road on the roundabout.

sentient_6

brownej wrote: »

I was going to the exit at 4 o'clock. The first exit is the off ramp for the dual carriageway (limerick tunnell). I was taking the third exit onto the dual carriageway but it was the fourth road on the roundabout.

Well then id have been in the right lane indicating right till the exit then indicate left to come off. I'm afraid the guard was wrong the the ROTR. Same time the whole situation might have been avioded had you not beeped!

Del2005

Mc Love wrote: »

You beeped a guard?

It might improve their, non response, driving if more people did.

brownej

Del2005 wrote: »

It might improve their, non response, driving if more people did.

It's obviously my own fault I got stopped. Must not beep guards in future.

It's my bad garda karma coming back to bite me as yesterday morning I was behind a garda car (ford focus) with four Guards in it and the rear right wheel was completly flat. I thought about flashing or beeping at them to get their attention to alert them but then didn't do it in case they interpreted it wrong. This is the universes way of balancing out my karma with the Guards.

emanresu

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if coming from the left roundabout the third exit leads up to the pink highlighted area... (though the first exit is really entry only)

Should be in the right hand lane as the exit is after 12 o clock position ie is at about 4 o clock position.

The first road on the map is not an exit, so it doesn't count.

sentient_6 wrote: »

Your approaching the right roundabout from the lane with 4050.0 marked over it? To me the 3rd exit with the purple further down it is pretty much exactly 12 o'clock from where your approaching. Or am i missing something? Cookie_Monster where you getting 4?

Id be in the left lane here & just indicate left when taking the exit.

Cookie_Monster

emanresu wrote: »

The first road on the map is not an exit, so it doesn't count.

I already said that and I still class it as a entry/exit point for the purposes of counting, I see no reason not to, it's still a road leading onto the roundabout

me wrote:

(though the first exit is really entry only)

Idleater

emanresu wrote: »

The first road on the map is not an exit, so it doesn't count.

I don't think that logic is sound as that requires local knowledge.

Having said that, I indicate left quite a bit when taking the first exit (straight ahead) so that the muppets (such as the Guards in question) that may consider exiting in front of me don't do so.

This would be applying local knowledge and giving information. Giving Information to other road users is the primary intent of indicators. They do not confer right of way, they signal intent. In such circumstances, indicating left while clearly approaching an "exit only" road signals to the head of the queue that you are going straight. Similarly, not indicating, indicates itself your intent to go straight whether you know the road or not (assuming indicating right would infer taking neither left nor straight but a subsequent exit in which case you should be in the RHS lane unless directed otherwise).

?Cee?view

emanresu wrote: »

The first road on the map is not an exit, so it doesn't count.

It doesn't make a pin of difference whether it is or not. The exit the OP took was a right turn, so he was in the correct lane - doesn't matter if it was the 2nd, 3rd or 22nd exit, it's still a right.

Well done OP. It's great when people stand up for themselves...especially when they're right

emanresu

nereid wrote: »

I don't think that logic is sound as that requires local knowledge.
...

It doesn't really require local knowledge to see that that road is not an exit. It can be seen from the map that the road in a NorthWest- SouthEast direction is a dual carriageway, so that means that the road in question has to be a slip road OFF the dual carriageway. Also it can be seen that the layout of the junction of that slip road with the roundabout is at an unsuitable angle to be an exit.
And I don't even have local knowledge, I had to look up other maps to find out which road is the Dock Road.

Anan1

brownej wrote: »

It's obviously my own fault I got stopped. Must not beep guards in future.

It's my bad garda karma coming back to bite me as yesterday morning I was behind a garda car (ford focus) with four Guards in it and the rear right wheel was completly flat. I thought about flashing or beeping at them to get their attention to alert them but then didn't do it in case they interpreted it wrong. This is the universes way of balancing out my karma with the Guards.

This makes no sense whatsoever to me.

brownej

Anan1 wrote: »

This makes no sense whatsoever to me.

I'm merely pointing out that yesterday I saw a problem with a garda car driving on the (same) road. It had a completely flat tyre, and I didn't make any effort to alert them and then today I get pulled over.

For the last 5 years on the same route I've never had any incidents with the guards. It must be some kind of Karma.

johndaman66

Mc Love wrote: »

You beeped a guard?

I was forced to blow the horn at a Garda car before and would have no reservations in doing so again if need be. Fair enough if it was an emergency at the time but they certainly had not got the indicator on and it was at a roundabout also. The cop pulled right out in front of me and I had to stand on the brakes. Was it nor the case that the cop was in his own private car seen as he was going to work in the OP's case.

OP can you hold your hands up and say that you definately switched to your left indicator after passing the exit before your exit and not just before the exit before your exit or at it. I see this an awful lot at roundabouts. Its best not to use indicators at all at a roundabout as oppossed to using them incorrectly.

bijapos

brownej wrote: »

On a side note when I asked him for his name he wouldn't give it to me. Can he refuse to give me his name?

Yes, he can refuse to give his name.

He must give you, if you request it, his number, the name of his duty sargeant and the station he works from.

brownej

johndaman66 wrote: »

I was forced to blow the horn at a Garda car before and would have no reservations in doing so again if need be. Fair enough if it was an emergency at the time but they certainly had not got the indicator on and it was at a roundabout also. The cop pulled right out in front of me and I had to stand on the brakes. Was it nor the case that the cop was in his own private car seen as he was going to work in the OP's case.

OP can you hold your hands up and say that you definately switched to your left indicator after passing the exit before your exit and not just before the exit before your exit or at it. I see this an awful lot at roundabouts. Its best not to use indicators at all at a roundabout as oppossed to using them incorrectly.

The Garda was in a squad car and I was on my way to work. Your situation sounds almost identical to mine.
I can confirm that I was indicating on the roundabout correctly. I tend to get quite annoyed with people not indicating correctly on roundabouts so I'm always very careful on them and indicate correctly.
This mornings incident made me question how I use roundabouts but now since looking at the rules of the road and looking at the RSA videos I'm confident that I was correct.
If I acted as the Garda suggested I should, then I would have caused an accident.

Thanks everyone for your responses and advice. My sanity has been restored and I'm now definitely sure about correct roundabout usage.

thats not gone well

dont mind rethinking your approach to roundabouts, the guard was in the wrong. uniform or not the rules apply to everyone ( atleast in priciple).
the standard of driving in squad cars in limerick is frakly shocking. like everyone on the roads some of them just dont have a clue and if you do like the OP and tell them of the mistake, they will make it their business to do you for anything and everything

Anan1

brownej wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that yesterday I saw a problem with a garda car driving on the (same) road. It had a completely flat tyre, and I didn't make any effort to alert them and then today I get pulled over.

For the last 5 years on the same route I've never had any incidents with the guards. It must be some kind of Karma.

Sorry, I got that backwards - I thought you didn't stop the Garda car with the flat because you were pulled on the roundabout!

johndaman66

I do emphatise with you OP. For someone to endanger you on the road and then have the gaul on them to give you a dressing down on the rules of the road when you were actually obeying them and they were the offending party...well that would really rise me, Garda or not. No in fact it actually makes it worse if it was a Guard as they would have completed the advanced driver course and should be leading by example and all that. I'd nearly have being inclined to taken his badge number and report the incident to the seargent. Apologies I misinterpreted your initial post and took it that the Garda was going to work as oppossed to you.

thats not gone well wrote: »

the standard of driving in squad cars in limerick is frakly shocking.

I can certainly concur with that from my experience also. Ignorantly parking wherever and blocking roads and causing hazards to chat to their mates too.