Guarantee extended. Cost of Nama TBA???

dunsandin

The buddy Bank guarantee schemers was extended today, close on the guessestimate for the final latest cost of bailing out Anglo being announced tomorrow. Surely this is far more than a coincidence, and more so a case of sailing as close to the wind as possible to keep the programme on track. Now that we know Anglo is no more systemic than Spar, is this proof that our Govt is spoofing the system to ensure that their protection of their circle is completed, regardless of wether they are fecked out or not. This whole situation stinks to high heaven. We are now irrevocably tied to our failed banks, and our fate seems sealed to protect a bunch of bondholders. Where are all the spanners who used to promise that Nama would turn a profit now??? Can anybody come on here and tell us what we have gained, apart from the fools who bleat out the old, rotten chestnut of "well what would you have done then??" Better Anglo go to hell, than Ireland go to hell. God damn, I'm mad as hell at this point, this keyboard is getting a battering.

Scarab80

dunsandin wrote: »

The buddy Bank guarantee schemers was extended today, close on the guessestimate for the final latest cost of bailing out Anglo being announced tomorrow. Surely this is far more than a coincidence, and more so a case of sailing as close to the wind as possible to keep the programme on track. Now that we know Anglo is no more systemic than Spar, is this proof that our Govt is spoofing the system to ensure that their protection of their circle is completed, regardless of wether they are fecked out or not. This whole situation stinks to high heaven. We are now irrevocably tied to our failed banks, and our fate seems sealed to protect a bunch of bondholders. Where are all the spanners who used to promise that Nama would turn a profit now??? Can anybody come on here and tell us what we have gained, apart from the fools who bleat out the old, rotten chestnut of "well what would you have done then??" Better Anglo go to hell, than Ireland go to hell. God damn, I'm mad as hell at this point, this keyboard is getting a battering.

What has NAMA turning a profit got to do with extending the bank guarantee?

Boskowski

Scarab80 wrote: »

What has NAMA turning a profit got to do with extending the bank guarantee?

It's all part of the same scam?

dunsandin

Scarab80 wrote: »

What has NAMA turning a profit got to do with extending the bank guarantee?

In fairness, go and do a poo. And thats about as polite as I'm going to be today. Nit picking, blind rubbish. Go discuss the PS on another thread, here we are looking at an abyss, and you nit pick. God damn.

Scarab80

dunsandin wrote: »

In fairness, go and do a poo. And thats about as polite as I'm going to be today. Nit picking, blind rubbish. Go discuss the PS on another thread, here we are looking at an abyss, and you nit pick. God damn.

Rant away.

hinault

dunsandin wrote: »

The buddy Bank guarantee schemers was extended today, close on the guessestimate for the final latest cost of bailing out Anglo being announced tomorrow. Surely this is far more than a coincidence, and more so a case of sailing as close to the wind as possible to keep the programme on track. Now that we know Anglo is no more systemic than Spar, is this proof that our Govt is spoofing the system to ensure that their protection of their circle is completed, regardless of wether they are fecked out or not. This whole situation stinks to high heaven. We are now irrevocably tied to our failed banks, and our fate seems sealed to protect a bunch of bondholders. Where are all the spanners who used to promise that Nama would turn a profit now??? Can anybody come on here and tell us what we have gained, apart from the fools who bleat out the old, rotten chestnut of "well what would you have done then??" Better Anglo go to hell, than Ireland go to hell. God damn, I'm mad as hell at this point, this keyboard is getting a battering.

Initially we were told NAMA would generate a profit €4-€5 billion for the taxpayer by Minister Comical Lenihan when the first NAMA business plan was published.

But Frank Daly published another NAMA business plan showing :

1.Generate a loss €800 million
2.Make a profit €1 billion
3 Make a profit €3 billion.

(if we're discussing NAMA, as opposed to the bank guarantee)

dunsandin

Has FF bankrupted Ireland???.. Not concerned about Nama Plans, not concerned about nit picking. Have I, as a citizen of Ireland, been chained to a Bankrupt state as a result of FF policy? That is my question, and my answer, and I stand to be corected by a FF supporter, is yes, my children and myself have been sold down the river to ensure Sean Fitzpatrick and his Ilk can laugh with the members of the bar in the high court. We appear to be at a turning point in Irelands History, not to be too dramatic, and there appears to be little if any, stand-up leadership available to our economy. And no mention of Clintons visit? What the hell is going on????

Seth Brundle

dunsandin wrote: »

Has FF bankrupted Ireland???.. Not concerned about Nama Plans, not concerned about nit picking. Have I, as a citizen of Ireland, been chained to a Bankrupt state as a result of FF policy? That is my question, and my answer, and I stand to be corected by a FF supporter, is yes, my children and myself have been sold down the river to ensure Sean Fitzpatrick and his Ilk can laugh with the members of the bar in the high court. We appear to be at a turning point in Irelands History, not to be too dramatic, and there appears to be little if any, stand-up leadership available to our economy. And no mention of Clintons visit? What the hell is going on????

FF have bankrupted the country to protect their buddies and still about 20% of Irish people would vote for them tomorrow!

dunsandin

kbannon wrote: »

FF have bankrupted the country to protect their buddies and still about 20% of Irish people would vote for them tomorrow!

K, you are so right, and It literally melts my head. Is this the percentage of Irelands population that are directly beholden to FF??? I simply cannot fathom how this figure is possible, yet it is what it is.

SkepticOne

Scarab80 wrote: »

What has NAMA turning a profit got to do with extending the bank guarantee?

Losses incurred by NAMA as well as the burden of the bank guarantee (along with the budget deficit) have been cited as the reasons for Ireland's high borrowing costs.

Initially it was believed by NAMA supporters that it would make a profit. It was also believed that the bank guarantee scheme would be the the cheapest bailout in the history of bank bailouts.

Sadly both of these beliefs look to have been extremely optimistic and the bond markets are making borrowing very expensive for Ireland accordingly.

That is the connection. They are both about propping up the banks and the costs of both have been grossly underestimated and we are now paying the price for that.

This has been the big argument all along on this forum. Those who defended NAMA and the guarantee (and they tend to be the same people) never seemed to see the costs of those actions. Because the government set about hiding those costs, the defenders made the mistake of thinking the costs did not exist.

The problem is you can't "spin" away costs. You end up only fooling yourself that way. As an analogy: a company that is making a loss can only pretend to its shareholders that it is making a profit through accounting tricks for a short time. Eventually shareholders are going to want to actually see those profits.

The same is true for the country. Those who lend Ireland money are now seeing through the spin and it is the ordinary people who are going to bear the brunt of their displeasure.

Amhran Nua

kbannon wrote: »

FF have bankrupted the country to protect their buddies and still about 20% of Irish people would vote for them tomorrow!

I've never seen a ballot sheet that listed Fianna Fáil alone, versus Fine Gael, or any other party. I've seen plenty of ballot sheets that list TDs who have been fixing potholes in the local area for the last ten years. If you want to know why FF are still getting the votes, there's your answer. If we had a party list system instead of the STV, it would be a different story.

dunsandin

Take todays works of genius. AIB shares trading at c.a 0.41c, Dumbernment buys them up into state ownership at 0.50c. Why???
Lenno ststes " It was essential that we shore up our banks to ensure that we could continue to enjoy the confidence of Bond buyers". And yet it hasn't worked - we have had to exit the bond auction system for two months due to lack of investor confidence evinced by the high 6.8%+ rates being demanded. 29.5 Bn is the final total for Manglo, maybe, all going well, or 34.5, possibly, but sure whats €5000,000,000 between friends. Manglo is a "systemic" bank, more ya. I heard it stated that total deposits on hand were 4.5bn at the time of the bank guarantee - they could have paid them off 6 times over and let the carcass go and rot.
Come budget time, there will be blood, because the cuts to come are going to have to be to the bone. Either utter corruption, or utter incompetence, and certainly treasonous.

Ulysses Gaze

dunsandin wrote: »

Has FF bankrupted Ireland???.. Not concerned about Nama Plans, not concerned about nit picking. Have I, as a citizen of Ireland, been chained to a Bankrupt state as a result of FF policy? That is my question, and my answer, and I stand to be corected by a FF supporter, is yes, my children and myself have been sold down the river to ensure Sean Fitzpatrick and his Ilk can laugh with the members of the bar in the high court. We appear to be at a turning point in Irelands History, not to be too dramatic, and there appears to be little if any, stand-up leadership available to our economy. And no mention of Clintons visit? What the hell is going on????

Wouldn't be the first time the The Soldiers of Bankruptcy have bankrupted the country.

Oh and I heard on the BBC say that Ireland's Deficit was about 1/3 of GDP and comparatively "three times the size of the UK's".

dunsandin

For once lenno, who I must profess, I despise, got a run for his money from Miriam on prime time. But, he still got off lightly. His veiled threat that depositors in AIB would lose their savings if his plan did not proceed was not lost on me. Almost every sentence he uttered with regards to his economic policy was utter nonsense and designed to bluster support for his idiotic policies. Am I the only person shouting at the TV when he appears with his nonsense? We appear to be taking this mugging with the resignation of lambs to the slaughter. Perhaps it is true that nations get the governments they deserve.