Dail Live September 29th

the groutch

http://www.rte.ie/live/

thought it would be good to have a thread for reaction and comment on today's proceedings

leincar

Just watching it right now. Absolutely unbelievable, there are the grand total of 7 T.D's in the chamber at the moment.

NickDrake

No change there then.

JonathanAnon

Just took this screen capture five minutes ago..



Very few of them even bothered to show up.. :mad:

leincar

Leaders Questions just started.

the groutch

they're all in the Dail bar til the vote tonight

JonathanAnon

Cowan as uninspiring and dispassionate as ever, mumbling through his notes, looking up occasionally.. I really think they should make him a newsreader and let Ann Doyle run the country..

Kenny accusing Cowan of misleading the public over Anglo..

SarahBM

Cowen just spent about 6 or 7 minutes just mumbling and rambling. I have no idea what he was on about, and by the time he had finished I had forgotten the question that had been asked, and he probably didnt answer it either.

this guy is supposed to be the leader of our country and I can honestly say I believe we are the laughing stock of Europe.

Gilmore should have a right go!!!!! :mad:


and only about 18 people in the chamber. :mad:

the groutch

now he's seems to be resorting to personal attacks on Gilmore

JonathanAnon

Cowan saying that they should not question Barry O'Leary and another top level civil servant regarding their plans... Ascertaining that their judgement is above reproach.. Isnt this the same unwillingness to question that got us in to trouble with the banks.... I wish they had asked more questions of Pat Neary, the Dept. Of Finance, and the Central Bank, instead of assuming that they were beyond reproach... Seems like Cowan has learned nothing.

Coillte_Bhoy

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Just took this screen capture five minutes ago..



Very few of them even bothered to show up.. :mad:

How many times has this been brought up?? It doesnt matter how many of them are in the actual chamber. I suggest that posters giving about about this should read up on how the system actually works. Do you really want 166 members in the chamber at all times??? How in god's name would that achieve anything? Name one other parlaiment in the world that is any way much different. Seriously, think about it.

the groutch

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

How many times has this been brought up?? It doesnt matter how many of them are in the actual chamber. I suggest that posters giving about about this should read up on how the system actually works. Do you really want 166 members in the chamber at all times??? How in god's name would that achieve anything? Name one other parlaiment in the world that is any way much different. Seriously, think about it.

I'd like it to be more like the UK system where leader's questions goes beyond the opposition leaders and opens up the floor to backbenchers too, then you'd have a much fuller Dail.

whatawaster

Brian Cowen’s speed-reading of the order of business was unintelligible. Unbelievable stuff.

Mr.Micro

whatawaster wrote: »

Brian Cowen’s speed-reading of the order of business was unintelligible. Unbelievable stuff.

apparently he still does not know how much Anglo is going to cost.....what a tool.

SarahBM

the clip of Cowen speaking in the Dáil that Matt Cooper just played, sounds like Cowen is about to have a heart attack. he sounds completely out of breath.
Surely he should have a figure by now as to how much anglo is going to cost us!

P. Breathnach

Mr.Micro wrote: »

apparently he still does not know how much Anglo is going to cost....

Do you know? Does anybody know?

JonathanAnon

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

How many times has this been brought up?? It doesnt matter how many of them are in the actual chamber.

I know how the system works, but my point is ... Is it completely irrelevant for them to be there? Are they not voting on Anglo (which Cowan has been discussing albeit without giving a figure) ? Would they not think it's in their interest just to listen to the leader's response to the questions.. I mean they dont HAVE to spend long in the Dáil, it doesnt sit that many days... You might think they would have some interest in proceedings.

I spose if you were cynical you would say that the the Dáil itself IS only relevant for just the Cabinet and shadow Cabinets, not for the backbenchers (who are controlled in votes by the whip system anyway).

JonathanAnon

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do you know? Does anybody know?

That's what I dont understand as well. He has already given projected figures on what it is gonna cost, and they have all been wrong.. What is to say when he releases the new projection that this is gonna be correct? Nearly every figure Lenihan and Cowan have given us have turned out to be wrong on the banking issue.

They are saying that by knowing the true figure that this will introduce stability and hopefully help reduce the interest rates we are paying on future borrowings. But, if you were one of Ireland inc.'s future creditors, how could you BELIEVE in any figures posted by this Government?

Itssoeasy

The Ceann Comhairle will love this answer apparently.

Itssoeasy

Kicking off now haha.

Itssoeasy

"which number is it?"

Seanohea

Some waffle coming out of Enda Kenny at the moment, very hard to listen to him, i'm surprised Alan Shatter doesnt fall asleep beside him

Mr.Micro

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do you know? Does anybody know?

I certainly do not know and Cowen either....but it is clear Anglo will be funded at any cost so long as the golden circle is taken care of and before this shambles of a Government collapses and to hell with the rest of the country.

jmayo

Seanohea wrote: »

Some waffle coming out of Enda Kenny at the moment, very hard to listen to him, i'm surprised Alan Shatter doesnt fall asleep beside him

That waffling as you label it is about holding the three by elections and the fact that Donegal South West has not had it's constitutionally laid out representation with nearly a year and a half.
The fact that Waterford hasn't had it's quota of TDs for 7 months and that similarly Dublin South hasn't it's quota of elected representatives for over year since George Lee legged it.

He also said he was going to High Court to push for writs to be moved for by elections in Dublin and Waterford as SF did with Donegal.

Sorry he wasn't speaking in soundbytes for those you dip into politics every now or then or want to listen to bluster from Happy Gilmore.

Now try and keep up.
Looking like the motion will be defeated he is off to the High Court.
Thankfully he won't be getting willie o'dea to sign any papers. :rolleyes:

hallelujajordan

jmayo wrote: »

That waffling as you label it is about holding the three by elections and the fact that Donegal South West has not had it's constitutionally laid out representation with nearly a year and a half.
The fact that Waterford hasn't had it's quota of TDs for 7 months and that similarly Dublin South hasn't it's quota of elected representatives for over year since George Lee legged it.

Do you want to explain where in the constitution there is laid out a representation for Donegal South West and where such a constitutional provision is being breached (with reference to the actual document please) ?

And isn't Mr Kenny himself somewhat responsible for the Dublin South situation. Had he run a politician instead of a media soundbite boy two years ago, perhaps he would still have that seat ?

Denerick

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

How many times has this been brought up?? It doesnt matter how many of them are in the actual chamber. I suggest that posters giving about about this should read up on how the system actually works. Do you really want 166 members in the chamber at all times??? How in god's name would that achieve anything? Name one other parlaiment in the world that is any way much different. Seriously, think about it.

Its the typical logical flaw 'if I can't see you then you're not working'. Dáil committees are typically full and its the very rare TD in Ireland who isn't inundated by committee work. Most effective politics happens outside the chamber anyway.

leincar

Michael Noonan is strangely impressive. I've been watching for the last few hours and at the next election would be tending towards Fine Gael, having said that and considering the issuses being debated today I am hugely disappointed with the turnout in the chamber by Fine Gael deputies.

I know, I'm going to whisper it quietly, but Labour so far today have looked and acted the best.

seanegan84

Dear Mr. Cowen,
I am writting to you because I feel we need to right a wrong. It appears that you believe that the citizens of this wonderful nation of Ireland are fungi. You may be a very wise man but in this case you are wrong... this is a plee for you to stop treating the people of Ireland like mushrooms, stop feeding us ****e and keeping us in the dark.
Treat us like the edumacated people we have become thanks to the subsidy from our government. Unite our people, reignite our sense of national pride, give us direction and if anything be a leader, take control, talk(don't address) to our nation, inspire, be rational, stop fighting among yourselves and the media and give Éire all of your energy.
Long after we are gone she will be here, long after the ink of cheques have faded, Long after Kerry hits 100 football All-Irelands, Long after the next crisis is being studdied in hostory, Lead her to safety, make your decision for the common good of our beautiful nation.
As it is mentioned in the Constitution of Ireland
"Article 6
1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good."

That's all for now, what's on your mind?
Kind Regards,
Sean

P.S. Anarchy anyone? :P

maynooth_rules

leincar wrote: »

Michael Noonan is strangely impressive. I've been watching for the last few hours and at the next election would be tending towards Fine Gael, having said that and considering the issuses being debated today I am hugely disappointed with the turnout in the chamber by Fine Gael deputies.

I know, I'm going to whisper it quietly, but Labour so far today have looked and acted the best.

He is indeed very impressive, but all that so many poeple remember about him is one RTE show and one massive cock up he made. Biffo and lenihan have made monumental cock ups in the last 2 years yet they are not tainted in it the way some people have a tainted view of Noonan. i for one am delighted to see more Noonan

goose2005

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Just took this screen capture five minutes ago..



Very few of them even bothered to show up.. :mad:

Those funerals won't attend themselves, and with the healthcare cuts will become even more common.

Coillte_Bhoy

leincar wrote: »

Michael Noonan is strangely impressive. I've been watching for the last few hours and at the next election would be tending towards Fine Gael, having said that and considering the issuses being debated today I am hugely disappointed with the turnout in the chamber by Fine Gael deputies.

I know, I'm going to whisper it quietly, but Labour so far today have looked and acted the best.

But why?? Are you truly influenced by the grandsatanding that packed FG benches today, baying at the Govt, might have produced?

leincar

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

But why?? Are you truly influenced by the grandsatanding that packed FG benches today, baying at the Govt, might have produced?

I'm not influenced by them at all. At this stage a lot of whats going on is imagery and perception. If the body politic in Leinster House have cameras in the Dáil surely it is for their constituents to see how they work in the chamber and how our politicians legislate and create law.

If you look at the items debated yesterday that will influence the way we live on this island for possibly generations the turnout by all parties was sad and indeed shameful. As I previously said I am veering towards Fine Gael at the next election, but on yesterdays performance I am beginning to lose a little faith in them.

jmayo

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Do you want to explain where in the constitution there is laid out a representation for Donegal South West and where such a constitutional provision is being breached (with reference to the actual document please) ?

I know as ffer you tend to disregard the constitution as can be seen by the continuing refusal to hold elections, oh yeah March 2011 that is nearly tow years since Donegal South West has had it's quota of reprsentatives.

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN

Dáil Éireann
Article 16
2. 1° Dáil Éireann shall be composed of members who represent constituencies determined by law.
2° The number of members shall from time to time be fixed by law, but the total number of members of Dáil Éireann shall not be fixed at less than one member for each thirty thousand of the population, or at more than one member for each twenty thousand of the population.
3° The ratio between the number of members to be elected at any time for each constituency and the population of each constituency, as ascertained at the last preceding census, shall, so far as it is practicable, be the same throughout the country.
4° The Oireachtas shall revise the constituencies at least once in every twelve years, with due regard to changes in distribution of the population, but any alterations in the constituencies shall not take effect during the life of Dáil Éireann sitting when such revision is made.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

And isn't Mr Kenny himself somewhat responsible for the Dublin South situation. Had he run a politician instead of a media soundbite boy two years ago, perhaps he would still have that seat ?

So is Kenny preventing the holding of the by election ?
No he is not and trying to blame him for that is typical ff spinning sh***.

scr123

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Do you want to explain where in the constitution there is laid out a representation for Donegal South West and where such a constitutional provision is being breached (with reference to the actual document please) ?

And isn't Mr Kenny himself somewhat responsible for the Dublin South situation. Had he run a politician instead of a media soundbite boy two years ago, perhaps he would still have that seat ?

Interesting remark about Dublin South there, never thought along those lines. George Lee was a FG monumental cockup. The Cope blocked FG winning another seat in Europe. Wasnt Martin Cullen a guy who chose FF over FG ? Isnt it a valid point to make that if FG came to rehearsals they might have got their act together and already in possession of the three vacant seats !!

hallelujajordan

jmayo wrote: »

Dáil Éireann
Article 16
2. 1° Dáil Éireann shall be composed of members who represent constituencies determined by law.
2° The number of members shall from time to time be fixed by law, but the total number of members of Dáil Éireann shall not be fixed at less than one member for each thirty thousand of the population, or at more than one member for each twenty thousand of the population.
3° The ratio between the number of members to be elected at any time for each constituency and the population of each constituency, as ascertained at the last preceding census, shall, so far as it is practicable, be the same throughout the country.
4° The Oireachtas shall revise the constituencies at least once in every twelve years, with due regard to changes in distribution of the population, but any alterations in the constituencies shall not take effect during the life of Dáil Éireann sitting when such revision is made.

Thank you for not answering the question . .

Article 16 - 2 - Are we currently outside the 20,000 - 30,000 national constitutional limit ? I don't believe we are but perhaps you have data that will prove me wrong ? Even if we are, the constitution only says that the ratio shall not be fixed by law . . not that it cannot deviate during the lifetime of the Dail.

Article 16 - 3 - States that the number of members to be elected at any time should be the same throughout constituencies. . It does not say that the ratio of members to constituents should be maintained throughout the lifetime of the Dail . . Let me give you an example of why this cannot be so. . Say for example the population in a constituency increases by 50% (through migration, property development etc) during the lifetime of the Dail. Do we have to have a by-election to add another seat to make sure that the additional 50% of people have the appropriate representation ? Of course we dont, and for the same reason there is no constiutional requirement to hold a by election . .

jmayo

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Thank you for not answering the question . .

You asked for relevant documentation to show where it was stated in constitution about representation.
I showed you relevent sections.

Note I did not show you exact census figures for Donegal South West or the other two affected constituencies.
If I have the time I will try and drag that information out or perhaps you might as a way of supporting your argument that is doesn't matter to the voters of Donegal South West since the limits are not affected.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Article 16 - 2 - Are we currently outside the 20,000 - 30,000 national constitutional limit ? I don't believe we are but perhaps you have data that will prove me wrong ? Even if we are, the constitution only says that the ratio shall not be fixed by law . . not that it cannot deviate during the lifetime of the Dail.

Ah I can see why you are such a fan of lenihan.
It is all in the wording. :rolleyes:

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Article 16 - 3 - States that the number of members to be elected at any time should be the same throughout constituencies. . It does not say that the ratio of members to constituents should be maintained throughout the lifetime of the Dail . . Let me give you an example of why this cannot be so. . Say for example the population in a constituency increases by 50% (through migration, property development etc) during the lifetime of the Dail. Do we have to have a by-election to add another seat to make sure that the additional 50% of people have the appropriate representation ? Of course we dont, and for the same reason there is no constiutional requirement to hold a by election . .

Ah but shure aren't your crowd deciding to fight this through the courts and COST the taxpayers even more money, all to prevent a constituency from having it's probable quota of elected representatives.

Funny how ff fight to the letter and semantics of the law when it suits.
Perhaps you might start doing the same with the Companys Act and what it says about things like directors loans ? :rolleyes:

mike65

Another full house, not.

reallyrose

I'm the first to admit that I don't know exactly what goes on in the Dáil chamber.
What do the backbencher TDs do exactly in the chamber? The TD speaking at the moment (I'm not sure who, my stream started buffering during the intro) gave his thanks for being allowed the opportunity to speak on the banks issue. So a TD can't speak up when she/he feels like it?
I've seen the posts talking about attendance. If a TD can't speak, or do anything while attending the Dáil, why turn up? They might be better off in their constituency getting a few things done!

Again, a disclaimer, I am a newbie to the fuzzy world of politics, so if I come across as clueless it is because I probably am. I'm trying to learn though!

SarahBM

Leaders and PMs questions is way more interesting and passionate and involved, than the Dail. nobody seems to be allowed speak out and have a go.
I dont understand why the independents arent allowed talk as much as others.

the whole system needs to be hauled over. but it would probably take years, like everything else that goes through the dail.

no wonder young people dont like politics. :mad:

hallelujajordan

jmayo wrote: »

Ah I can see why you are such a fan of lenihan.
It is all in the wording. :rolleyes:

It's a legal question, you accuse the government of doing something unconstitutional, of course its all in the wording . . . you cannot just interpret the constitution in a way that suits your argument y'know.

Ah but shure aren't your crowd deciding to fight this through the courts and COST the taxpayers even more money, all to prevent a constituency from having it's probable quota of elected representatives.

Is it not FG who decided to fight this through the courts in a pointless courtcase that can only have one outcome (which would be to confirm the correctness of the government position) and cost the taxpayers money ?

And did the government not announce, just yesterday that the by-elections would take place by the end of March next year ?

oh well , okay

hallelujajordan wrote: »

And did the government not announce, just yesterday that the by-elections would take place by the end of March next year ?

No , I think the government actually announced that it would announce the dates for the by-elections by March 31st . The by-elections then have to be held within 25 days so we're probably looking at the end of April .