Labour and Fianna Fail - Gilmore as Taoiseach

Stinicker

One of my biggest political nightmares entered my head today. Ruari Quinn and the Labour Party are gerrymandering with Fianna Fail and recent polls indicate that Labour will overtake Fianna Fail in seats however Fianna Fail will still retain enough to form a viable coalition with Labour.

Labour would beat Fianna Fail into junior position and Eamonn Gilmore could very possibly be the first ever Labour Taoiseach with a LAB/FF/GN/IND coalition a nightmare prospect for the country.

Labour currently have 20 seats but I expect them to increase this to between 35 & 45.

Fianna Fail has 75 seats but will enter pure meltdown and will return only between 30 to 35 seats after the next election, with a major swing from FF to Labour.

The FF cronie independents will return about 4 or 5 seats and the greens will drop down from 6 to about 1 or 2 seats.

Fine Gael on the other hand has 51 seats and will return around 65 to 70 seats and will be the biggest party in the Dail after the next election.

Sinn Fein has 4 seats and will probably pickup one or two at FF's expense.

Options for Government thus are.

84 Seats needed for majority Government.

FG/LAB 100+ seats

LAB/FF/GN/IND 85 Seat +/-

LAB 42
FF 36
Greens 2
IND 5
Noel Grealish, Micheal Healy Rae, Michael Lowry etc.

As above with Sinn Fein = 90+ seats

Fine Gael has no Junior party of relevance to turn to make up the numbers other than Labour since the demise of the Progressive Democrats and Green Party as political entities.

I think Labour will sell out to Fianna Fail especially with the tantalising prospect of a Labour Taoiseach. If this happens it will put any hope of a recovery down the drain and the Public service and bloated welfare state will be saved by Labour and their Union supporters. Ireland will have lost any slim chance it had to correct itself and will be stuck in decades of disaster if Labour are left run the country.

A vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fail and those thinking of voting Labour should remember this. Vote Fine Gael in the hope that they could get an overall majority and give us some hope from a party with a ideaology that isn't Marxism (Lab) or Gombeen populism (FF).

DrumSteve

ah yes... Bertie mark 2.

dvpower

Not on the cards. Gilmore has ruled this out again and again.

Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore has categorically ruled out a coalition between his party and Fianna Fáil after the next general election even if he were in a position to become taoiseach.

Wolfe Tone

dvpower wrote: »

Not on the cards. Gilmore has ruled this out again and again.

The greens said something similar!

SeaFields

Didn't Trevor Sargent more or less say the same thing?

And we all know what happened.

dlofnep

I don't think Labour would ever go into coalition with Fianna Fáil. I'd expect a Labour/FG coalition as a more likely scenario, as Labour know that any coalition with FF at this point would severely hurt any ground that they've made.

In saying that - FG & Labour have opposite view-points and they won't make for a functional Government. Fine Gael wish to cut spending.

Individually, they are all hoping for a majority Government, but the chances of that are very slim due to the share in votes.

Liam Byrne

Stinicker wrote: »

A vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fail and those thinking of voting Labour should remember this. Vote Fine Gael in the hope that they could get an overall majority and give us some hope from a party with a ideaology that isn't Marxism (Lab) or Gombeen populism (FF).

You had me until that last paragraph.

I've objected to lots of dirty tricks on here by FF supporters, but that's not because they're FF; it's because the scaremongering is unacceptable.

To my knowledge Labour have ruled out a coalition with FF, and following The Greens' shennanigans and double-speak any Labour candidates that show up on my doorstep will need to sign a form saying that they will resign from the party if Labour consider going in with FF.....no signature = no vote.

Hopefully you're not representative of a new "let's try the dirty tricks" FG approach, because otherwise I'll be down to voting independent.

dvpower

SeaFields wrote: »

Didn't Trevor Sargent more or less say the same thing?

And we all know what happened.

He said he wouldn't lead the greens into government and, true to his word, he didn't.

SeaFields

dvpower wrote: »

He said he wouldn't lead the greens into government and, true to his word, he didn't.

It was a political play on words and a decision that his party is going to regret come the next election, not that they don't already.

Johnny Murphy FF

Labour is too left wing, they will destroy the economy.

dvpower

SeaFields wrote: »

It was a political play on words and a decision that his party is going to regret come the next election, not that they don't already.

I'd say they're regretting it alright. But I'd still have some admiration for Trevor Sargent. He could have easily have taken a cabinet position (with its pension for life). There's not many who would have done what he did.

dvpower

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

Labour is too left wing, they will destroy the economy.

snigger, snigger

Liam Byrne

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

Labour is too left wing, they will destroy the economy.

Er - even if they wanted to, they're far too late; FF have beaten them to it.

Stinicker

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You had me until that last paragraph.

I've objected to lots of dirty tricks on here by FF supporters, but that's not because they're FF; it's because the scaremongering is unacceptable.

To my knowledge Labour have ruled out a coalition with FF, and following The Greens' shennanigans and double-speak any Labour candidates that show up on my doorstep will need to sign a form saying that they will resign from the party if Labour consider going in with FF.....no signature = no vote.

Hopefully you're not representative of a new "let's try the dirty tricks" FG approach, because otherwise I'll be down to voting independent.

I am a member of no political party but find myself leaning towards FG as they seem the best way out. I would have no problem with Labour in partnership with FG even though it would be a Left/Right Coalition, however Labour and FF would be a disaster as the extreme leftists in Labour would be control of the country.

Fianna Fail have no political ideology and are just gombeen populists, if there was a apetitite in the country for war or genocide Fianna Fail would run with it if they thought it would win them the next election. Fianna Fail have no vision for the future and have run the country on an election to election basis of sheer short-sightedness. All Fianna Fail care about is themselves and their political hacks and they have shown they would rather sink the nations economy than have their own vested interests take a hit.

I respect Labours left-wing ideaology and for sticking to it, however I do not feel this is a time we should be dabbling in social experiments and an economic model which has been proven as a total failure, (leftwing socialism). FG thus are the alternative, centre right, balance the books, grow the economy and cut the fat of big government.

If Labour gets elected with FF they will be pursueing such raving plans such as, Universal Healthcare, Preserving the Public Service instead of shredding it, unwanted social upheavels like Gay Marriage and they will put Abortion back on the agenda, and immigration into Ireland will soar to the high heavens with immigrants coming in here when there is no jobs and then living of Welfare while the middle class get screwed in tax hikes, however Jack O'Connor and Ivana Bacik will be happy, the two biggest communists in Ireland.

Liam Byrne

Stinicker wrote: »

I am a member of no political party but find myself leaning towards FG as they seem the best way out. I would have no problem with Labour in partnership with FG even though it would be a Left/Right Coalition, however Labour and FF would be a disaster as the extreme leftists in Labour would be control of the country.

That's all fine by me, and I would be thinking in a similar vein, however there is no need to cast slurs such as

Stinicker wrote: »

A vote for Labour is a vote for Fianna Fail

Johnny Murphy FF

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Er - even if they wanted to, they're far too late; FF have beaten them to it.

FF created the boom, international forces caused the recession despite what the FG/ RTE propoganda machine might like you to believe otherwise.

Liam Byrne

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

FF created the boom, international forces caused the recession despite what the FG/ RTE propoganda machine might like you to believe otherwise.

Thanks for the insulting attempt to imply that I don't have enough of a brain to see through propaganda and lies.....I mean, I can see straight through any attempts to mis-allocate the blame, thanks very much.

As for "FF created the boom", you're talking to someone who would prefer to have a sustainable and fair economy rather than a "boom", so don't expect me to even remotely thank FF for creating a short-term, ill-advised bubble.

PeterIanStaker

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

FF created the boom, international forces caused the recession despite what the FG/ RTE propoganda machine might like you to believe otherwise.

lol

also, what is "propoganda"

FF heads . . . illiterate in every sense. :rolleyes:
It must be the most junior Cumann members' turn to troll tonight.

Wolfe Tone

To me it is obvious that our new friend is not in fact a FF supporter, but is merely here under that guise in order to alienate people from said party with his FF stereotype.

Stinicker

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's all fine by me, and I would be thinking in a similar vein, however there is no need to cast slurs such as

Well if Labour enters Coalition with Fianna Fail then you are voting to keep Fianna Fail in power if voting Labour. I voted Labour in the GE last time but FG in the locals and I would need some steadfast guarantees that Labour are not going to join Fianna Fail in Government before joining them. Eamonn Gilmore should give assurances to the Irish populace that he will not enter Government with FF.

FG and Labour should be on a joint election footing and something like the Mullingar accord of a while back would be a good start and to sure up transfers from FG to LAB and vice versa. There needs to be a united front against Fianna Fail and todays move by Ruari Quinn made me question Labours true direction.

Liam Byrne

Stinicker wrote: »

Well if Labour enters Coalition with Fianna Fail then you are voting to keep Fianna Fail in power if voting Labour.

That's a very, very big IF, and therefore there is no basis on which to claim that "a vote for Labour is a vote for FF".

Like I said, anyone who wants my vote will have to sign (maybe in blood, I'm considering that) that they won't contemplate such a thing.

If Labour end up going in with FG, then you could just as easily say that "a vote for Labour is a vote for FG".

Johnny Murphy FF

I dont think it would work at all, sure Gilmore insulted the pope a while back and Cowen will not want to alienite the catholic wing of the party with that move.

FF is about tradition and family values, comrade Gilmores leftist social engineering wouldnt fit in.

Liam Byrne

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

I dont think it would work at all, sure Gilmore insulted the pope a while back and Cowen will not want to alienite the catholic wing of the party with that move.

FF is about tradition and family values, comrade Gilmores leftist social engineering wouldnt fit in.

OK, that's me out. :rolleyes:

zootroid

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

FF created the boom, international forces caused the recession despite what the FG/ RTE propoganda machine might like you to believe otherwise.

No they didn't.

Ireland enjoyed significant economic growth before Bertie came in and messed everything up

bytey

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

FF created the boom, international forces caused the recession despite what the FG/ RTE propoganda machine might like you to believe otherwise.

all FF created was the destruction of Ireland and its people by pure
unadulterated , 100% TREASON .

everyone of them should be in jail .

View

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

FF is about tradition and family values, comrade Gilmores leftist social engineering wouldnt fit in.

Ok, so FF won't support Labour. I guess that means FF will just be the junior party in a FG-led coalition instead then, right?

Clarification would be helpful, just so people know whether FF will be supporting a Labour or a FG government after the next general election.

After all, who would have thought that a day might come when a vote for FG might be a vote to keep FF in power?

P. Breathnach

bytey wrote: »

all FF created was the destruction of Ireland and its people by pure
unadulterated , 100% TREASON .

everyone of them should be in jail .

Methinks you overstate your case.

bamboozle

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

I dont think it would work at all, sure Gilmore insulted the pope a while back and Cowen will not want to alienite the catholic wing of the party with that move.

FF is about tradition and family values, comrade Gilmores leftist social engineering wouldnt fit in.

you're dead right

FF Tradition - scam the country at every opportunity, create tax breaks to solely benefit FF Party Donators, do everything possible to stay in power...ie increase state expenditure by 22% prior to the 2002 election.

FF Family Values - look after your own, sure isnt Beverly Cooper FLynn top class lets bring her back in and ask RTE to write off the debts they incurred defending their name.

molard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You had me until that last paragraph.

I've objected to lots of dirty tricks on here by FF supporters, but that's not because they're FF; it's because the scaremongering is unacceptable.

To my knowledge Labour have ruled out a coalition with FF, and following The Greens' shennanigans and double-speak any Labour candidates that show up on my doorstep will need to sign a form saying that they will resign from the party if Labour consider going in with FF.....no signature = no vote.

Hopefully you're not representative of a new "let's try the dirty tricks" FG approach, because otherwise I'll be down to voting independent.

labour candidates sign your form.get elected. resign from labour and as independent join ff in government.great plan .

Liam Byrne

molard wrote: »

labour candidates sign your form.get elected. resign from labour and as independent join ff in government.great plan .

Well obviously they'll be asked to sign part of it as to whether they, personally, would support FF too, but that's slightly off-topic.

charlemont

Johnny Murphy FF wrote: »

Labour is too left wing, they will destroy the economy.

off to the gulags for you...

dvpower

bytey wrote: »

all FF created was the destruction of Ireland and its people by pure
unadulterated , 100% TREASON .

everyone of them should be in jail .

... I've wandered into After Hours ...

andrewdcs

It'll be FG/Labour no ifs not buts no independants "pork barrelling" roads / hospitals (JHR!!:mad:) The potential coalition described below is inane.

When the IMF/ECB etc. have their wicked way, privatising the ESB, water, health care, returning corp. taxation to mean etc. etc. etc. there won't be much for a Labour govt. to hang onto anyway and it will be their social policy with FG (IMF/ECB) structural policy that will limp us along for 15 years plus.

Personally I couldn't rule out partial internal default running to a general election. (i.e. all current contracts for 'benchmarked' civil servants and state agencies reneged and re negotiated/dumped = greek and french style mega strike-a-thon)

It's all timing. We can't afford the huge chunks of GNI to run bits and pieces of what was briefly liberalised economy. How many state funded agencies and civil departments do we have? Every one with its own structure and ballooning pensions costs.

hallelujajordan

dvpower wrote: »

Not on the cards. Gilmore has ruled this out again and again.

Here is what FG think about Gilmores reassurances . .

“No one should take seriously Eamon Gilmore’s protestations that the Labour Party will not after the next election, if given the opportunity; join up with Fianna Fail in Government. The events of the last 24 hours confirm that Labour cannot resist the Fianna Fail embrace. Whilst the Labour party enjoys the publicity it obtains from kicking Fianna Fail for a while, it is always available to Fianna Fail when that party is genuinely under pressure and in need of a political cuddle.”

REF : http://www.finegael.ie/news/a/3985/article

Strange language for those who will most likely partner in the next government.

bijapos

^ Looks like the real General Election has kicked off early, i.e. the FG and Labour scramble for the seats that FF and the Greens are going to lose. Could be interesting.

zimmermania

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Here is what FG think about Gilmores reassurances . .

“No one should take seriously Eamon Gilmore’s protestations that the Labour Party will not after the next election, if given the opportunity; join up with Fianna Fail in Government. The events of the last 24 hours confirm that Labour cannot resist the Fianna Fail embrace. Whilst the Labour party enjoys the publicity it obtains from kicking Fianna Fail for a while, it is always available to Fianna Fail when that party is genuinely under pressure and in need of a political cuddle.”

REF : http://www.finegael.ie/news/a/3985/article

Strange language for those who will most likely partner in the next government.

Looks to me like the polls have upset some of the blueshirts and they are worried that LAB will capture more and more FG seats.That might well happen but they need not worry they will still be in government with LAB because even if he wanted to (he doesnt) Gilmore could not go in with the robbing shower of bastards that make up the FF parliamentary party.

yahoo_moe

dvpower wrote: »

I'd say they're regretting it alright. But I'd still have some admiration for Trevor Sargent. He could have easily have taken a cabinet position (with its pension for life). There's not many who would have done what he did.

Interfere in a criminal case on behalf of a constituent?

Might be more than you'd think

bytey

dvpower wrote: »

... I've wandered into After Hours ...

maybe you should stick your head back in the sand instead