Modifying a 899cc Seicento

kona

I want a cheap runabout but I hate standard cars , I love the seicentos , cheap everything with them. Does anybody have any experience of modifying these cars? Somebody told me that Punto/bravo/seicento bits are all interchangable (i.e I could run the 899cc on a 1.2 puntos Throttle bodies and ECU) as a are the engines (could put a Punto Turbo engine in the seicento)

However all that heavy modding is awhile away yet as Ive another car thats going to get some serious work done.

Also aside from the engines size, whats the difference between the Sporting and the Sx?

Im going to lower it 40mm, now Fiat use a bogey PCD apparantly its like 98mm and this is unigue to fiat, I want to put a set of 13 x 6 superlites on it, somebody suggested these would fit if I used "wobbly" nuts , now to me that sounds like a bodge and abit bogey, are these nuts safe?

And yea Fiat does mean Fix It Again Tomorrow .

Wossack

-> modifed cars I reckon!

sounds like a bit of craic anyway

Owen

Always thought Dangeruss' rendering of a completely track focused one was a good starting point :pac:

Professey Chin

I am scared,disturbed and horrified by the concept of this thread :eek:

phill106

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

I am scared,disturbed and horrified by the concept of this thread :eek:

Only modification for a seiciento should be a container of petrol and a match.

kildare.17hmr

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

I am scared,disturbed and horrified by the concept of this thread :eek:

i thought it was a joke! untill i noticed his location and realised he is probably pi$$ed

Wibbs

A mate of mine had one(sporting) many moons ago. Grand runabout, but a Fiat alright. It went through clutch cables like shít through a goose. Badly designed and torturous route for the cable.

I think the sporting was the same, but slightly lowered tougher suspension. The engine revs willingly enough, but is asthmatic. I'd be slapping a less restrictive air filter on it as a first thing. Then see if the Italian tuning crowd do an exhaust. If not for that model, maybe the engine is in something else and you could get a manifold and join it up? Handling, maybe thicker anti roll bars? There was an Abarth version with a 1.1 engine, but maybe they had beefier suspension across the board. That would fit straight on I imagine.

smash

1 bit of advice about the seicento, it doesn't hold up well in a crash. So I would go trying to make it go any faster than it can.

kirving

Sure with all that work being done he may as well sick a roll cage in it for the craic!

Savman

phill106 wrote: »

Only modification for a seiciento should be a container of petrol and a match.

Or one could modify the window so that it displayed the words FOR and SALE and then go buy a better car. But to each their own.

kona

steve06 wrote: »

1 bit of advice about the seicento, it doesn't hold up well in a crash. So I would go trying to make it go any faster than it can.

My other car which is going into the garage for the winter for a operation is a Mini Cooper (and not the BMW one). Im making a step up I reckon in the aul safety department. If I planned on driving like a lunatic Id buy something else.

Suppose It being torturous and a pain in the ass doesnt apply, Minis are a big pain in the ass to do , so Im not botherd about that side of things.

So the sporting has a better set up to begin with? They are overpriced tho on donedeal, I can get a Alfa or a civic for the money they are at.

kona

phill106 wrote: »

Only modification for a seiciento should be a container of petrol and a match.

what do you drive? I might get one of what you have.

kona

are the people slating the seicento talking from experience or from ignorance? Like have they actually driven one?

Owen

I've driven one. They are very underpowered, and don't feel planted at all. They're very unsure of themselves on the road, and feel very unstable. The sporting model improved that with a larger capacity engine IIRC, and sports suspension. The schumaker signature model is probably the best of the bunch, but that's not saying much.

kona

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Always thought Dangeruss' rendering of a completely track focused one was a good starting point :pac:

jesus, thats photoshopped right? bit silly looking

kildare.17hmr

kona wrote: »

are the people slating the seicento talking from experience or from ignorance? Like have they actually driven one?

Me from experience, but im only takin the pi$$

kona

Wossack wrote: »

-> modifed cars I reckon!

sounds like a bit of craic anyway

I should really learn multiquote, but I asked here because I want opinions on the actual car, and there seems to be more knowledge in this forum than over in the other place.

fullstop

kona wrote: »

are the people slating the seicento talking from experience or from ignorance? Like have they actually driven one?

Most likely ignorance, it's cool to slate almost any car in here didn't you know?

phill106

kona wrote: »

what do you drive? I might get one of what you have.

A passat. I am not against modifying cars, just the seicento. I think its a death trap in its standard form, and I cant see it getting any better with modifications.

Heres one if you like, be warned though, fibreglass doesnt last long in the carparks of ireland.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-SEICENTO-BODY-KIT-2x-BUMPER-SIDE-SKIRTS-SPOILER-/130426884030?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5e0c4fbe

kona

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Me from experience, but im only takin the pi$$

Thats cool, how were they on petrol and servicing? can they do 120kmph without being revved to bits?

kildare.17hmr

kona wrote: »

Thats cool, how were they on petrol and servicing? can they do 120kmph without being revved to bits?

not that much experience:p I took a few as trade ins over the years! cheap to run cheap to service. the girlfriends mother had a newer model one and she loved it but that doesnt really say much:rolleyes:

Mr Benevolent

What about a Ka? Far better driving dynamics and well-known in motorsport. The Focus handles very well too, as does the MX-5, which is the ultimate supercheap sports convertible.

kona

phill106 wrote: »

A passat. I am not against modifying cars, just the seicento. I think its a death trap in its standard form, and I cant see it getting any better with modifications.

Ya see we see cars in different ways, to me I see them as toys and fun. Judging by your choice youve a family etc and saftey is more of a concern.

FWIW I wouldnt touch anything VAG with a 20ft pole , If diesel 50ft pole.:pac:

kona

fullstop wrote: »

Most likely ignorance, it's cool to slate almost any car in here didn't you know?

Unless its either

a) Jap

B)German (or part of a german company)

phill106

kona wrote: »

Ya see we see cars in different ways, to me I see them as toys and fun. Judging by your choice youve a family etc and saftey is more of a concern.

FWIW I wouldnt touch anything VAG with a 20ft pole , If diesel 50ft pole.:pac:

diesel vag So would that be a 70ft pole, or would I get away with the 50
Course mines the 130, and would have twice the power of the seicento.
Lowered, kitted, tinted, remus exhaust, 17 inch oz racing wheels.
Just cause you have a family, doesn't mean you stop modifying, you just do it with more expensive/larger cars.

Savman

kona wrote: »

Ya see we see cars in different ways, to me I see them as toys and fun. Judging by your choice youve a family etc and saftey is more of a concern.

FWIW I wouldnt touch anything VAG with a 20ft pole , If diesel 50ft pole.:pac:

I'd have a diesel Passat over a Fiat fisher price automobile any day tbh. People tend to get over sensitive about this driving business, by all means modify to your heart's content just don't expect widespread thumbs up for doing it.

FWIW I haven't driven a Seicento but I knew two people who owned them, they actually quite liked them but I would prefer to cycle personally.

Toys and fun maybe, but going 120km/h in a 998cc box is not my idea of fun thanks.

kona

Confab wrote: »

What about a Ka? Far better driving dynamics and well-known in motorsport. The Focus handles very well too, as does the MX-5, which is the ultimate supercheap sports convertible.

neither can return 50 mpg , have the lowest tax and all cost twice a seicento.
Im just looking for a chep runabout thats kinda different, the fun car is getting a serious amount of modding this winter.
130BHP mini will be way more fun , I can also offload the seicento handy when my bro wants to learn

But I do agree those cars are excellent, and the Mx-5 or Ka would be my choice if id another few grand!

smash

kona wrote: »

are the people slating the seicento talking from experience or from ignorance? Like have they actually driven one?

Well I'm talking from experience about them not holding up well in a crash. And the reason for the crash was the bad pedal design. They're small, too close and don't have any grip on them. My wife's foot slipped off the brake and onto the accelerator coming into a corner.

kona

Savman wrote: »

I'd have a diesel Passat over a Fiat fisher price automobile any day tbh. People tend to get over sensitive about this driving business, by all means modify to your heart's content just don't expect widespread thumbs up for doing it.

FWIW while I haven't driven a Seicento but I knew two people who owned them, they actually quite liked them but I would prefer to cycle personally.

Toys and fun maybe, but going 120km in a 998cc box is not my idea of fun thanks.

Oh I cycle every day too

I dont expect thumbs up, but I asked for opinions in my OP, not for people to say the usual ****e, Ive heard it all before.

IMO VAGS are NASTY , My mates had golfs and they burned a unreal amount of oil and fell apart. Ive seen a fair few passats that are dead in 10 years.

Id take you out in the mini, you change your mind about 120kmph in a matchbox

kona

steve06 wrote: »

Well I'm talking from experience about them not holding up well in a crash. And the reason for the crash was the bad pedal design. They're small, too close and don't have any grip on them. My wife's foot slipped off the brake and onto the accelerator coming into a corner.

Im coming from a Mini Cooper, I could press all 3 pedals at once in it. I cant see that being a issue. but good feedback, there was a recall on some models about the brake pedals breaking.

kona

phill106 wrote: »

diesel vag So would that be a 70ft pole, or would I get away with the 50
Course mines the 130, and would have twice the power of the seicento.
Lowered, kitted, tinted, remus exhaust, 17 inch oz racing wheels.
Just cause you have a family, doesn't mean you stop modifying, you just do it with more expensive/larger cars.

Depends on the mileage
How much is your tax? MPG? what does it weigh?? bet the seicento sporting would push you for BHP/Ton

Oh I know! but I dont have a family so I can get away with matchboxes, and If i wreck myself its my problem!

kona

phill106 wrote: »

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-SEICENTO-BODY-KIT-2x-BUMPER-SIDE-SKIRTS-SPOILER-/130426884030?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5e0c4fbe

I think the standard sporting kit looks better tbh

phill106

kona wrote: »

Depends on the mileage
How much is your tax? MPG? what does it weigh?? bet the seicento sporting would push you for BHP/Ton

Oh I know! but I dont have a family so I can get away with matchboxes, and If i wreck myself its my problem!

Perhaps, but don't forget you also have to stop as fast :P
Tax is too much! My mpg is fecked atm, though it is supposed to be mid 40s. weight? Kerb weight 1,406 kg (3,100 lb)
Yours would be 730–750 kg (1,600–1,700 lb)
So power to weight ratio probably fairly similar. Lets have a tow off! ropes to back of both cars, and floor it :P

hi_im_fil

Taken from www.torque-irl.com http://torque-irl.com/showthread.php?t=15811&highlight=seicento

There is a thread on octane.ie about it too.

damienga15de wrote: »

Couple of Hillclimb guys are building Seicento and Cinquecento Sporting race cars with the intention of doing a few races and a few hillclimbs next year.....
They intend to run standard engine and box, with the rules stating that you can buy any competitor's engine from him/her for €250 so there is no point in blueprinting/building them. They are using the same Toyo 13" tyre as the Unos (€25+VAT each) and Monroe shocks (€165 a set). Bolt in cage apparently and they reckon a finished car will cost about €1,750....
It doesn't really fit into any class though, the cars only have 55bhp (even a race Uno has about 90bhp) but they are building them anyway. They even stripped one in the paddock at last Saturday's test day! It could explode and have huge numbers like the crazy 998 Metros did at Kirkistown years ago, you never know......

One of the organisers of the new Cento Challenge, Dermot Nolan, brought his project car to Mondello today for a shakedown and generously allowed a few people, myself included to do a few laps. Standard car, taxed and NCT'd, he drove it down and back. Stripped out apart from front seats and belts, running Uno spec 13" Toyos (€25+vat each) and a full tank of juice. I was expecting the car to be horrible and sloppy on track but was pleasantly surprised (and more than a little amused). It revs freely to over 7,000rpm, the brakes are fine (standard pads) but the real surprise was the handling. Plenty of body roll, as expected but the back end floated around beautifully and four wheel drifts were very much the order of the day. The car took dogs abuse all day and never missed a beat, bar boiling over once in the pitlane, solved by leaving the heat on for the rest of the day. Bear in mind this was a 2000 road car which hadn't even had a service before it was brought to Mondello!!

Here are a few pics:
Porsche Series frontrunner Philip Jones takes the wheel......


Double Dunlop Supercar Champion Johnny Whelan has a go.....


The Seicento getting some attention in pitlane.


Camera supplied by d4dphotos, thanks Anto.


Front left not looking too bad after a day's abuse from a load of gougers!


The pads bring a new meaning to the term "down to the metal" at the end of the day......

kona

^^^^^^
I like! souns like good craic.

kona

phill106 wrote: »

Perhaps, but don't forget you also have to stop as fast :P
Tax is too much! My mpg is fecked atm, though it is supposed to be mid 40s. weight? Kerb weight 1,406 kg (3,100 lb)
Yours would be 730–750 kg (1,600–1,700 lb)
So power to weight ratio probably fairly similar. Lets have a tow off! ropes to back of both cars, and floor it :P

reckon the rope will break

L1011

You can, just about, get the 1368cc 16v Starjet/SuperFIRE in to a Sei's engine bay; there's been a few shown converted like this on fiatforum. Unturbo'ed in standard enough spec that unit can do 94-101hp depending on ECU and wheter its forced induction or not.

Mycroft H

I've driven one. There a go kart with a roof basically. Wouldn't reccomend them as there an absolute death trap waiting to happen. I seem to remember that it has one of the worst euro ncap crash test performances ever.


EDIT


1.5 stars in the NCAP.... eeeeeek :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj6mzb4oxWc

CiniO

I just went quick through the thread.
People seem to say a lot about the car they never driven.
I used to own good few cinquecentos and seicentos before.
Had one cinquecento 704cc which engine was actually a joke (30BHP).
In cinquecentos SX had a 899cc engine, while sporting had 1108cc enigne.
In seicentos, SX had both 899cc and 1108, while sporting had only 1108cc.
In sporting version suspension was bit lower and bit harder, gearbox ratio was slightly shorter giving it better acceleration, but also bigger fuel consumption. That would be all mechanical differences. With design, sporting had nicer look (in my opinion), red seatbelts, seats with more side protection (but they were still far from bucket seats).

First of all - forget about 899cc engine. It's a construction from the 60's with little modification (f.e. electionic fuel injection instead of carburator).
1108cc enigne though, is one of the best fiat engines, whet it comes to reliability.
They are 54BHP, but can be easily modified, to get much more - I've seen guy getting over 120BHP from that eninge with added turbo.

Maybe I forgot to mention, I'm originally from Poland, where Cinquecentos and Seicentos were extremally popular (actually all of them were produced in Poland, as Fiat has a factory there making small cars).
Obviously because they were so popular, there were (and still is) loads of lads modifying them.

First thing to do is the suspension, because stock one is a joke. You pretty much need lower progressive springs, and harder shocks. Antirollbar as well.

With engine easies mod you can do, is to swap an engine for 1.2 8v from punto, as that engine is fitted to the same housing as seicentos 1.1.
Then maybe try adding turbo to that 1.2 and you got very fast machine.

Anyway it can be nice to modify it a bit, but maybe you should look to buy already modified version from Poland, if you don't mind LHD car? Could came cheaper in the end.

Here's few youtube videos with modified seicentos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k7alLI97YA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_s5BkBAWs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnv5MerTTjI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwLj_RpRIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6nqFh2oY1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gepIwj8cSy4&feature=related

Here's some interview with lad how did some modifications.. (actually not really technical) - it's translated by google but still understandable.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.furious.pl%2Farticle%2Fseicento12%2Findex.htm

Or maybe something like that:
http://www.fiat-scotland.com/fiat/upload/showthread.php?12012-Seicento-1.2-Abarth-Red!!!

That one looks nice but he asks almost 5000 euros for it.
http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=1244290981
Here's the translation: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://allegro.pl/show_item.php%3Fitem%3D1244290981&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiDYOUgiUdgedYdgJn9nUruJPgPVA

Or a cheaper one for 2500euros: http://otomoto.pl/fiat-seicento-1-2-16v-wystrojony-C15307906.html
Translation here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fotomoto.pl%2Ffiat-seicento-1-2-16v-wystrojony-C15307906.html

I've driven few modified of those.
I also had one sporting, while with stock engine, suspension was way lowered and hardened. And it was really nice to drive.

One thing to make you aware - if you crash in that car, only what you can do is to pray. It's extreammly unsafe.

You can get lots of modification parts in Poland. check polish internet auction site http://allegro.pl It's all in polish, but you can try to use google translator.

Good luck with your mods.

vectra

This one should fit the bill for you :eek:

Modified Seicento

kona

CiniO wrote: »

I just went quick through the thread.
People seem to say a lot about the car they never driven.
I used to own good few cinquecentos and seicentos before.
Had one cinquecento 704cc which engine was actually a joke (30BHP).
In cinquecentos SX had a 899cc engine, while sporting had 1108cc enigne.
In seicentos, SX had both 899cc and 1108, while sporting had only 1108cc.
In sporting version suspension was bit lower and bit harder, gearbox ratio was slightly shorter giving it better acceleration, but also bigger fuel consumption. That would be all mechanical differences. With design, sporting had nicer look (in my opinion), red seatbelts, seats with more side protection (but they were still far from bucket seats).

First of all - forget about 899cc engine. It's a construction from the 60's with little modification (f.e. electionic fuel injection instead of carburator).
1108cc enigne though, is one of the best fiat engines, whet it comes to reliability.
They are 54BHP, but can be easily modified, to get much more - I've seen guy getting over 120BHP from that eninge with added turbo.

Maybe I forgot to mention, I'm originally from Poland, where Cinquecentos and Seicentos were extremally popular (actually all of them were produced in Poland, as Fiat has a factory there making small cars).
Obviously because they were so popular, there were (and still is) loads of lads modifying them.

First thing to do is the suspension, because stock one is a joke. You pretty much need lower progressive springs, and harder shocks. Antirollbar as well.

With engine easies mod you can do, is to swap an engine for 1.2 8v from punto, as that engine is fitted to the same housing as seicentos 1.1.
Then maybe try adding turbo to that 1.2 and you got very fast machine.

Anyway it can be nice to modify it a bit, but maybe you should look to buy already modified version from Poland, if you don't mind LHD car? Could came cheaper in the end.

Here's few youtube videos with modified seicentos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k7alLI97YA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_s5BkBAWs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnv5MerTTjI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwLj_RpRIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6nqFh2oY1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gepIwj8cSy4&feature=related

Here's some interview with lad how did some modifications.. (actually not really technical) - it's translated by google but still understandable.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.furious.pl%2Farticle%2Fseicento12%2Findex.htm

Or maybe something like that:
http://www.fiat-scotland.com/fiat/upload/showthread.php?12012-Seicento-1.2-Abarth-Red!!!

That one looks nice but he asks almost 5000 euros for it.
http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=1244290981
Here's the translation: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://allegro.pl/show_item.php%3Fitem%3D1244290981&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiDYOUgiUdgedYdgJn9nUruJPgPVA

Or a cheaper one for 2500euros: http://otomoto.pl/fiat-seicento-1-2-16v-wystrojony-C15307906.html
Translation here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fotomoto.pl%2Ffiat-seicento-1-2-16v-wystrojony-C15307906.html

I've driven few modified of those.
I also had one sporting, while with stock engine, suspension was way lowered and hardened. And it was really nice to drive.

One thing to make you aware - if you crash in that car, only what you can do is to pray. It's extreammly unsafe.

You can get lots of modification parts in Poland. check polish internet auction site http://allegro.pl It's all in polish, but you can try to use google translator.

Good luck with your mods.

Thanks for the post , Some fantastic info there! I was looking online and it seems cheaper to buy a SX then get the sporting bits and bobs and bolt them on and it would still be cheaper

Ill have a look at that polish site too, Those fiat 126 with the seicento engine in the back are class, 1.1 RWD lol, I saw some guy do o doughnut like it was a tank!