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Dissident republicans- Deadend cause

  • 25-09-2010 11:35AM
    #1
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭


    Who are those useless excuse for humans? What do the Dissident republicans hope to achieve. I feel ashamed the word "Republican" is even associated with them.. Call them what you like, Terrorists, nut jobs.. but the last thing they are are republicans.


Comments

  • #2
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    They are a criminal gang that are useing the cause of republicanism to try to hide their disgracefull activities.

    They are not republicens, they are tratiors.


  • #3
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    alex73 wrote: »
    Call them what you like, Terrorists, nut jobs.. but the last thing they are are republicans.

    Why so? Republicans, in the past, have frequently justified political violence in pursuit of a United Ireland. They ignored peaceful moves like the Sunningdale agreement in favour of war. How are modern day dissidents so different? :confused:


  • #4
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    These dissidents are providing much - needed employment to the Sunday Indo journos who are probably bored with writing about each other and Z - list celebs at this stage.

    Cue the articles tomorrow, "If you Watched the All - Ireland Final, you're a Dissident" or something.


  • #5
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why so? Republicans, in the past, have frequently justified political violence in pursuit of a United Ireland. They ignored peaceful moves like the Sunningdale agreement in favour of war. How are modern day dissidents so different? :confused:

    I thought we have a vote north and South to settle the differences and move forward with the northern institutions. So I presume the current status quo is backed by the democratic majority in Ireland? For sure nationalists in the north today live is a very changed society than that previous to the troubles. The Police force has a 50% Nationalist participation.

    Don't see what point Violence is going to achieve for anybody?


  • #6
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Oh here we go again!

    Now we can have a huge page count where the dissidents are called all the names under the sun, then some posters explain what the dissidents are really about, their motives and the logic of their attacks which is then followed by pages more of said posters being character assassinated and defending themselves against accusations of supporting dissidents and being apologists. While all they are doing is stating the FACTS and the root issues of the attacks. If you don't understand the cause how can you hope to cure it? Unfortunately that goes out the window in these type of threads.



    Do we really need to do this AGAIN? This must be about the 5th thread in the last 3 months.


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  • #7
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why so? Republicans, in the past, have frequently justified political violence in pursuit of a United Ireland. They ignored peaceful moves like the Sunningdale agreement in favour of war. How are modern day dissidents so different? :confused:
    Tell me, was it republicans who toppled sunningdale?


  • #8
    nuac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭nuac


    I agree with Alex73 on this. People have spoken thru the GFA referenda.

    Violence to achieve the political objective of a united Ireland is not justified.


  • #9
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    alex73 wrote: »
    I thought we have a vote north and South to settle the differences and move forward with the northern institutions...

    I think you're trying to argue that the older Republicans had democratic legitimacy, but they didn't. The 1916 Risers didn't even have a democratic mandate, and neither did the Republicans who were fighting in the North for a United Ireland.

    I'm not trying to argue here, by the way, that the modern day dissidents are comparable to the older stock - they aren't. I'm just trying to refute this idea that these dissidents aren't Republicans. They clearly are.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    If you don't understand the cause how can you hope to cure it? Unfortunately that goes out the window in these type of threads.

    The cause of the dissidents? Are you saying we should unite Ireland just to give into these people?
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Tell me, was it republicans who toppled sunningdale?

    Members of both communities repeatedly ignored peaceful solutions. Let's not try to paint a black and white picture where there is none.


  • #10
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    The cause of the dissidents? Are you saying we should unite Ireland just to give into these people?
    I wouldnt say no! haha seriously though, issues such as the reasons why an increasing number of people are supporting attacks on the PSNI.


    Members of both communities repeatedly ignored peaceful solutions. Let's not try to paint a black and white picture where there is none.

    Thats exactly what you were trying to do. Republicans had minimal input into the collapse of Sunningdale.


  • #11
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Oh here we go again!

    Now we can have a huge page count where the dissidents are called all the names under the sun, then some posters explain what the dissidents are really about, their motives and the logic of their attacks which is then followed by pages more of said posters being character assassinated and defending themselves against accusations of supporting dissidents and being apologists. While all they are doing is stating the FACTS and the root issues of the attacks. If you don't understand the cause how can you hope to cure it? Unfortunately that goes out the window in these type of threads.



    Do we really need to do this AGAIN? This must be about the 5th thread in the last 3 months.

    We all know the meagre mental processes dissidents mistakenly label a 'strategy'. What I find most curious is that a certain constituency on this island find it rather difficult to utterly condemn a farcical and tiny band of morons hellbent on bringing the absolute horror of the Troubles back on to this island.


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  • #12
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Denerick wrote: »
    We all know the meagre mental processes dissidents mistakenly label a 'strategy'. What I find most curious is that a certain constituency on this island find it rather difficult to utterly condemn a farcical and tiny band of morons hellbent on bringing the absolute horror of the Troubles back on to this island.
    How is it "mistakenly" labeled a strategy?

    Not all of us like to partake in your trademark insult-laden hyperbolic condemnations Denerick.

    I've made my position clear on the Dissidents a good number of times by now.


  • #13
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why so? Republicans, in the past, have frequently justified political violence in pursuit of a United Ireland. They ignored peaceful moves like the Sunningdale agreement in favour of war. How are modern day dissidents so different? :confused:

    the unionists refused any efforts to solve the problems and rightfully got what they deserved till they were forced by the british government to enter stormont.

    modern day dissidents have no large scale support.. the provo's did..


  • #14
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    How is it "mistakenly" labeled a strategy?

    Not all of us like to partake in your trademark insult-laden hyperbolic condemnations Denerick.

    I've made my position clear on the Dissidents a good number of times by now.

    They don't have a strategy. Their only strategy is to murder and kill and hope GFA falls apart as a result of that. I'm not accusing you of being a dissident by the way.

    Anyways... Not going to get dragged into this thread... ;)


  • #15
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Why so? Republicans, in the past, have frequently justified political violence in pursuit of a United Ireland. They ignored peaceful moves like the Sunningdale agreement in favour of war. How are modern day dissidents so different? :confused:

    the unionists refused any efforts to solve the problems and rightfully got what they deserved till they were forced by the british government to enter stormont.

    modern day dissidents have no large scale support.. the provo's did..


  • #16
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Denerick wrote: »
    They don't have a strategy. Their only strategy is to murder and kill and hope GFA falls apart as a result of that. I'm not accusing you of being a dissident by the way.

    Anyways... Not going to get dragged into this thread... ;)

    Sounds like one to me! Targeting security forces etc.... Stepping up their actions against drug dealers to win support....



    You say that now, but really there is no escape.


  • #17
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I wouldnt say no! haha seriously though, issues such as the reasons why an increasing number of people are supporting attacks on the PSNI.

    Just because the thing is causing problems does not mean that thing should be "fixed". Not only would uniting Ireland against the democratic wishes of Northerners be wrong in itself, it would also set a terrible precedent where one could get what one wants by murdering a few people.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Thats exactly what you were trying to do. Republicans had minimal input into the collapse of Sunningdale.

    Yeah, it was admittedly a poor example. I was trying to make a general point, and tacked on a specific instance which wasn't in line with the generalisation, and I didn't think the thing through. Apologies.

    Anyway, my point is that these dissidents are Republicans, and are pursuing their policies through means not alien to the Republican cause. You cannot say these dissidents aren't Republican because they don't have a democratic mandate: Northern Republicans have never had a majority mandate. And the dissidents' use of violence is simply a continuation of what a sizable chunk of Republicans did back in the 80s.


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