ROG for France after World Cup?

Judgement Day

According to Planet Rugby, Ronan O'Gara may see out his professional rugby playing days after the 2011 RWC in France. I hope not but you can't blame him following the money trail if he decides to.

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http://www.planetrugby.co.za/story/0,25883,9818_6399045,00.html

Ireland fly-half Ronan O'Gara is being courted by a number of Top 14 clubs according to reports in France.

The 33-year-old Munster ace is one of a number of players out of contract after the World Cup - and a switch to France could give O'Gara a final payday before retiring.

With no salary cap system in place, Top 14 clubs are able to pay lucrative salaries to lure players to France.

Dan Carter, James Hook and Quade Cooper are also being targeted, while Brian O'Driscoll has been repeatedly linked to a move.

O'Gara, who is fluent in French after studying it at university, has previously spoken about the attraction of moving across the Channel, particularly with a view to coaching.

However he could now be tempted to finishing his playing career there first - with Stade Francais, Perpignan and Biarritz among those who will be tempted to sign the free-scoring kicker.

JustinDee

Judgement Day wrote: »

According to Planet Rugby . . .

A rumour in the Irish Independent yesterday is where it started.

PhatPiggins

He should absolutely do it. If he goes to one of the top 6 teams he'll be behind a dominant pack and will get the armchair ride. Will bang over 15+ every game and the French will love him.

thehighground

JustinDee wrote: »

A rumour in the Irish Independent yesterday is where it started.

Actually it was started in l'Equipe. The owner of the Munsterfans site is French & he spotted it in l'Equipe and posted it on Munsterfans.

http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26813&TPN=1

danthefan

Who gives a toss where it started? Talk about pedantic.

irishbucsfan

I'd count myself as a critic of ROG, but I think he'd be a success at a team like Biarritz. Fair play to him if he heads across.

rebel.ranter

I doubt he'll head. There was the same sort of stories about previous retirees. There were even the Miami Dolphins rumours from a good few years back. Some hack picked up a throw away comment he made some time & has blown it out of proportion.
I'd say he is doing alright pay wise with Munster & Ireland, I still think he'll be there or thereabouts in 2011/2012.

Micky Dolenz

Players like O Gara have served their club and country well. He should try and make as much money as possible before retiring.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Who gives a toss where it started? Talk about pedantic.

Not being pedantic actually. A rumour started in the Indo could be a plant from O'Gara's agent. It cant be claimed that l'Equipe is in O'Gara's/his agents pocket bearing in mind the stuff they printed about him during the last rugby world cup.

danthefan

thehighground wrote: »

Not being pedantic actually. A rumour started in the Indo could be a plant from O'Gara's agent. It cant be claimed that l'Equipe is in O'Gara's/his agents pocket bearing in mind the stuff they printed about him during the last rugby world cup.

My post was more aimed at JustinDee but I suppose that's a fair enough reason.

Otacon

Hope he goes tbh. He has served Munster and Ireland well for ten years and deserves to make as much money as he can. Best of luck to the guy.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

My post was more aimed at JustinDee but I suppose that's a fair enough reason.

Even though l'equipe is a bit of a red top I'd give the rumour more creditablity if it appeared on its pages then in the Indo

outwest

hed get destroyed defence wise in the french top 14 ,,


i hope he goes to stade tho,

Micky Dolenz

outwest wrote: »

hed get destroyed defence wise in the french top 14 ,,


i hope he goes to stade tho,

I think everyone is aware of his defensive capabilities. It is his offensive talent they would be interested in.

JustinDee

danthefan wrote: »

Who gives a toss where it started? Talk about pedantic.

Not pedantic at all and as nothing but a rumour hardly warranted a front page 'exclusive' in the sports section of the paper.

thehighground

outwest wrote: »

hed get destroyed defence wise in the french top 14 ,,


i hope he goes to stade tho,

I can't recall any Munster game against French opposition in the Heineken Cup when O'Gara got destroyed in defense.

Even in the defeat to Biarritz last season, BO didn't manage to score a try and despite Leinster having a really good defense (up to recently anyway), Clermont got more tries in the RDS than Clermont managed in their two games (home & away) the previous season against Munster with O'Gara at OH.

The Stade President has been after him for years, so it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up there as a sort of player/coach after the RWC.

PhatPiggins

outwest wrote: »

hed get destroyed defence wise in the french top 14 ,,


i hope he goes to stade tho,

Watch much of the T14? Fly halfs at the top 6 teams don't have to do much tackling, except Wilko of course and he does it by choice.

Starting 10's for the best teams:

Brock James
Wilkinson
Porical
Skrela
Trin Duc
Wisniewski

ROG fits nicely into that group.

jolley123

Not a chance ROG will leave Munster, he will be Munster till the end of his career.

beartooth

This isn't really news it come out every couple of years when he is negotiating his contract and he said he wants to play in france in his book

[Jackass]

What about this tax back thing??

I think ROG will retire after world cup and go to France as a kicking coach.

Podge_irl

jolley123 wrote: »

Not a chance ROG will leave Munster, he will be Munster till the end of his career.

He's barely the best outhalf in Munster at the moment though. He's better off heading to France. The tax thing is the only thing going to keep him in Ireland.

lologram

[Jackass] wrote: »

What about this tax back thing??

I think ROG will retire after world cup and go to France as a kicking coach.

The tax thing isn't in as large sums as people expect. A wealthy French club could easily cover his tax rebate losses in his contract while still giving him more money that season than he has ever made in a season in Ireland.

danthefan

lologram wrote: »

The tax thing isn't in as large sums as people expect. A wealthy French club could easily cover his tax rebate losses in his contract while still giving him more money that season than he has ever made in a season in Ireland.

It's 40% of all income tax he paid over 10 years. That is a **** load of money and there's no way it would be covered in by one season in France, considering he's one of the top earners in Ireland.

lologram

danthefan wrote: »

It's 40% of all income tax he paid over 10 years. That is a **** load of money and there's no way it would be covered in by one season in France, considering he's one of the top earners in Ireland.

I knew i had seen some evidence of what i was saying recently so i went for a quick search and found it again. http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/reaching-for-the-turning-point-2210471.html

Towards the bottom of the article: The IRFU will point to the government's tax rebate scheme as a buffer to those of the golden generation now losing their sheen, whereby a player can probably walk away with up to €250,000 after retirement.

There's no way that €250,000 can be covered in one season in France?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/7664793/French-league-the-place-to-go-for-top-salaries.html

That Telegraph article says Wilkinson makes £355,000 (yes sterling as opposed to euro) and that the contract increases to £700,000 based on bonuses. Chabal makes £350,000 a year. The top range of players make on average £240,000 in flat salaries. Dan Carter is out shopping himself around for €1.2 million a year.

I know ROG won't draw in the very top level of money, but you said it would be impossible to make that much in one year, and it clearly isn't. So I guess the retirement tax rebate isn't as huge a barrier as people think it is

irishbucsfan

danthefan wrote: »

It's 40% of all income tax he paid over 10 years. That is a **** load of money and there's no way it would be covered in by one season in France, considering he's one of the top earners in Ireland.

He could easilly make as much in France as he's owed by the government. Not only that, but a move to France could open up the possibility of 1) Extra playing years (larger squads etc.) and 2) Work in France after he retires.

Two years in France would pay off the tax money he'd lose, easilly. The move to France would be excellent for him

danthefan

lologram wrote: »

I knew i had seen some evidence of what i was saying recently so i went for a quick search and found it again. http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/reaching-for-the-turning-point-2210471.html

Towards the bottom of the article: The IRFU will point to the government's tax rebate scheme as a buffer to those of the golden generation now losing their sheen, whereby a player can probably walk away with up to €250,000 after retirement.

There's no way that €250,000 can be covered in one season in France?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/7664793/French-league-the-place-to-go-for-top-salaries.html

That Telegraph article says Wilkinson makes £355,000 (yes sterling as opposed to euro) and that the contract increases to £700,000 based on bonuses. Chabal makes £350,000 a year. The top range of players make on average £240,000 in flat salaries. Dan Carter is out shopping himself around for €1.2 million a year.

I know ROG won't draw in the very top level of money, but you said it would be impossible to make that much in one year, and it clearly isn't. So I guess the retirement tax rebate isn't as huge a barrier as people think it is

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/legi/fa02.pdf

Here is a link to the finance bill under which the tax relief scheme was introduced. There is nothing to say €250,000 is the max anyone can reclaim.

On top of that he'd have to earn €250,000 more than what he'd earn for a season in Ireland. Anyone who paid him the same as Wilko, never mind Dan Carter, is off their rocker.

lologram

danthefan wrote: »

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/legi/fa02.pdf

Here is a link to the finance bill under which the tax relief scheme was introduced. There is nothing to say €250,000 is the max anyone can reclaim.

On top of that he'd have to earn €250,000 more than what he'd earn for a season in Ireland. Anyone who paid him the same as Wilko, never mind Dan Carter, is off their rocker.

I didn't say anyone should pay him that amount, I said that they could pay him that. And they definitely could, it's certainly not an impossibility, which you hinted it was. I also didn't say that the €250,000 was some sort of upper limit, that's just what the Irish Independent reckoned was a fair estimate for what a member of the 'Golden Generation' might make. And I think he's a fair example of what a member of the Golden Generation might look like.

Also in that Independent article, it says that it's very unlikely than any Irish centrally contracted player will make more than 300k in the future. It had been slightly more than that, but was cut between last season and this. And the number of contracts was cut, too.

My point was not to get into the minute details of ROG's household budget, I'm just showing that the tax rebate isn't some sort of net/shield that the IRFU have thrown over Irish players to keep the rich French away. It isn't an insurmountable amount of money, some French club could definitely remove the barrier for a player like ROG, based on the money they already pay players in their league. The thread is about the possibility of ROG moving to France after the World Cup, i'm saying it could happen, not that it will or it should.

danthefan

Say ROG is on 300K (which is reasonable imo). He'd have to earn 300k PLUS whatever the amount of his tax rebate is in order to make it worth his while to play his last season in France. This is not feasible.

Blut2

He'd still qualify for the tax rebate as long as he played his last season in Ireland though, is that correct?

So in theory he could go off to France for a season after the World Cup, earn a nice chunk of change and brush up on his French, come back to Connacht for a last season, retire, then move back to France in a coaching position? That seems to be the most financially lucrative path.

danthefan

Blut2 wrote: »

He'd still qualify for the tax rebate as long as he played his last season in Ireland though, is that correct?

So in theory he could go off to France for a season after the World Cup, earn a nice chunk of change and brush up on his French, come back to Connacht for a last season, retire, then move back to France in a coaching position? That seems to be the most financially lucrative path.

Yes he could do that, it has to be for a professional team though. Being paid €1 per year for an AIL3 club wouldn't do it, I think Shane Byrne did this and they closed the loophole.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Blut2 wrote: »

He'd still qualify for the tax rebate as long as he played his last season in Ireland though, is that correct?

So in theory he could go off to France for a season after the World Cup, earn a nice chunk of change and brush up on his French, come back to Connacht for a last season, retire, then move back to France in a coaching position? That seems to be the most financially lucrative path.

Kind of a risk no? What if he gets injured in france? Also, I think its insulting to Connacht to assume they'd want to take a guy who's just going there for his tax rebate.

It's a lot more likely that a few of the top guys from the younger generation (fitz, kearney, heaslip) will go to france for a couple of years after the 2011 world cup.

This rumour is basically pure conjecture though as far as I can see.

Micky Dolenz

Zariah Scruffy Sharkskin wrote: »

Kind of a risk no? What if he gets injured in france? Also, I think its insulting to Connacht to assume they'd want to take a guy who's just going there for his tax rebate.

I'm pretty sure they would not feel insulted. Having a player of that experience on the squad could only be a good thing. Everyone wins.

TitoPuente

If it makes financial sense then he should do it. He's served Munster and Ireland well and he's definitely reaching the end of his career at 33. A season in France might not just be good for the bank balance, it'd probably be a nice change of scenery too and provide him with some fond memories when he looks back on his career as a whole.

irishbucsfan

danthefan wrote: »

Say ROG is on 300K (which is reasonable imo). He'd have to earn 300k PLUS whatever the amount of his tax rebate is in order to make it worth his while to play his last season in France. This is not feasible.

He could play two seasons in France?

danthefan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He could play two seasons in France?

If someone was willing to pay a 36 year old in obvious decline that much money, sure.

recylingbin

Sound to me like the bottler has contract negotiations coming up. About as unlikely to happen as the move to Miami Dolphins - which was another thing he made up when his contract was up for negotiation.

CatFromHue

this is different than the miami dolphin thing.

he has mentioned a few times over a few years that he'd like to play at some time in france. not just for the rugby, the climate and the lifestyle but he has metioned that his wife would like to experience life over there.

remember the french clubs have given players with a lot less pedigree than him big money contracts. (james haskell for example)

in the article quoted it doesnt reference anything by o gara quote wise just that clubs are interested in him.

the miami dolphin story lasted what maybe a month in total which eddie o sullivan bascially told him to tell the truth and wind down the story himself.

he is a strangely divisive character but if he goes i'll wish him well he has had his bad momnets but they are out weighed by his good moments
(the bonus of him going would be getting those awful lucozade ads off the tv!!)

JustinDee

So after all that then, nobody, including the Irish Independent, knows what Rog is going to do when he will be almost 35 years old.

lologram

JustinDee wrote: »

So after all that then, nobody, including the Irish Independent, knows what Rog is going to do when he will be almost 35 years old.

good thing that every poster here, and the Indo for that matter, claimed to be psychic and know the future. And good thing that we weren't discussing possibilities of what might happen, but rather what was definitely going to happen. Good thing you were here to summarise for us, too.

JustinDee

Well its not quite up there with the 'Paul O'Connell has cancer' rumour-mill but I didn't think it was exactly front page exclusive news, that's all.
I'd like to see Rog get into coaching myself.
.

Judgement Day

danthefan wrote: »

If someone was willing to pay a 36 year old in obvious decline that much money, sure.

Well I hope ROG stays with Munster and I think on the evidence of recent games, particular the Glasgow one, saying that he is in 'obvious decline' is pushing it a bit. Whatever he does is fine by me and, as several posters here have said, he has been a great servant to Munster and Irish rugby.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's barely the best outhalf in Munster at the moment though. He's better off heading to France. The tax thing is the only thing going to keep him in Ireland.

James Hook is also on the "wanted" OH list and he doesn't even play there anymore. Its amazing Keatley & Sexton didn't make the wanted list.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Say ROG is on 300K (which is reasonable imo). He'd have to earn 300k PLUS whatever the amount of his tax rebate is in order to make it worth his while to play his last season in France. This is not feasible.

There is no way ROG will be on anything like that money. He will be losing his international contract. I think I heard that D'Arcy's & Horan's money was halved when their international contracts were not renewed.

Contempomi (who is the same age as ROG) got a 4 year contract with Toulon at 260K per annum and that seems to be as a utility back where there seems to be restrictions on when he plays because of restrictions on nos of non-French in the matchday 22/23. O'Gara has a much better injury record than Contempomi, so if they thought Contempomi could keep going until he was 36, I can't see why they wouldn't take the same chance with O'Gara until he is 36.

sock puppet

thehighground wrote: »

James Hook is also on the "wanted" OH list and he doesn't even play there anymore. Its amazing Keatley & Sexton didn't make the wanted list.

Hook wanted/wants to leave was because he wants to get back to playing at outhalf and he's nowhere near Biggar at the moment. If he really wants to play there he has to leave. Perpignan also have a goal kicker already so wouldn't need to worry about that aspect of his game.

Ciaran-Irl

sock puppet wrote: »

Hook wanted/wants to leave was because he wants to get back to playing at outhalf and he's nowhere near Biggar at the moment. If he really wants to play there he has to leave. Perpignan also have a goal kicker already so wouldn't need to worry about that aspect of his game.

Same with Stade - Hook would suit the Stade world of posing for Calendars right down to the ground. He was born to wear those mad jerseys.

On ROG - it all depends on a) if the tax rebate will still exist after the next two budgets, and b) If it is still here then, how you qualify to receive it.

I've never heard a clear answer from someone who might know something about the tax rebate in question, but I do believe that ROG could theoretically get a contract with Cork Con after two years. He could be paid a nominal sum of money, line out for them a handful of times, and then qualify for a rebate as he spent his last year as a pro in Ireland.

BoarHunter

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Watch much of the T14? Fly halfs at the top 6 teams don't have to do much tackling, except Wilko of course and he does it by choice.

Starting 10's for the best teams:

Brock James
Wilkinson
Porical
Skrela
Trin Duc
Wisniewski

ROG fits nicely into that group.

Porical is not fly half. he is full back. Beauxis might make a move next season to Toulouse so there is possibility for a place in Stade Francais.

Carter is also a possibility but the price given ( 1.2 million ) is prohibitif at the moment. I have the feeling the player & the club will make an effort though.

As for Wisniewski, remember that name. I am confident he will make the line up for France at the autumn and would be delighted if he manage to take the starting jersey. Not only does he share the same initials as a certain JW, he also competes in the scoring table with the English fly half. My favourite french number 10 at the moment far ahead of trinh duc who is very weak with the kicking/tactical game.

PhatPiggins

Welcome back BH. I've missed your insight into T14.

BoarHunter

thanks PhatPiggins. Lots happening at the moment so i don't have much time for sharing infos on the boards. will be better now

TheTMO

CatFromHue wrote: »

this is different than the miami dolphin thing.

he has mentioned a few times over a few years that he'd like to play at some time in france. not just for the rugby, the climate and the lifestyle but he has metioned that his wife would like to experience life over there.

remember the french clubs have given players with a lot less pedigree than him big money contracts. (james haskell for example)

in the article quoted it doesnt reference anything by o gara quote wise just that clubs are interested in him.

the miami dolphin story lasted what maybe a month in total which eddie o sullivan bascially told him to tell the truth and wind down the story himself.

he is a strangely divisive character but if he goes i'll wish him well he has had his bad momnets but they are out weighed by his good moments
(the bonus of him going would be getting those awful lucozade ads off the tv!!)

I heard the story but never heard O'Gara fabricated it himself! Unbelievable.

thehighground

TheTMO wrote: »

I heard the story but never heard O'Gara fabricated it himself! Unbelievable.

O'Gara didn't fabricate anything. He was seen with the owner of the Miami Dolphins in Cork and the press put 2 + 2 together and got 5! (Kicker + born in the US)!

He actually did meet the owner of Stade in Paris and no one knew about it until he put it in his book.

TheTMO

thehighground wrote: »

O'Gara didn't fabricate anything. He was seen with the owner of the Miami Dolphins in Cork and the press put 2 + 2 together and got 5! (Kicker + born in the US)!

He actually did meet the owner of Stade in Paris and no one knew about it until he put it in his book.

Not so actually I did some research interested in how this came about...

''While acknowledging an informal conversation with an agent representing the Miami Dolphins, I would like to categorically state my commitment to Irish rugby,'' the statement said.

''I will be honouring the remainder of my contract to the end of the Six Nations championship in 2004.

'' In the meantime, I am calling a formal closure on the issue and ask for understanding in that regard.''

O'Gara also told the Irish Examiner newspaper that he wanted just to concentrate on rugby.

''My only interest at the moment is to play rugby at the highest level," said O'Gara.

"The timing of this news wasn't the best but the issue is closed as far as I'm concerned."

O'Gara, who was born in San Diego, was reportedly offered a four-year deal by Miami worth $12m.

But he insists the stories were exaggerated.
"After an initial approach, I have not been in contact with anyone in America," he said.

"I won't be thinking about it because my only concern now is to help Ireland through the remaining games of the Six Nations.

"I want to play for Ireland and I want to play for them in the World Cup.
"I haven't given the slightest thought to what might happen later in my life.
"This thing appears to have snowballed beyond belief."





Seems that he was at the very least alluding to being offered something as he says he was approached. If it was simply the press spinning ****e why would he say "exagerrated" instead of "false" and mention him being "approached" rather than he was just conversing. Also he wasn't speaking with the owner he claims he was speaking with an agent for the Miami Dolphins, massive difference.

Looks like he did fabricate it!