Do you think Fine Gael tds regret keeping Enda as leader?

Seanohea

I think if the same Fine Gael leadership vote was held tomorrow, Enda Kenny would be gone, Fine Gael are just dropping further in the polls.
At a time when Fianna Fail could not possibly be any less popular, Fine Gael should be cleaning up, attracting voters, telling people how they can make a real change after Fianna fail in government.
Where has Enda Kenny Been over the past few weeks? He should be in the media as much as possible trying to connect with the electorate, I just don't understand it. I'm really disappointed in Fine Gael, the last thing I want to see is a Labour led government, or even a healthy labour representation in government.
It seems unlikely now, but I wish Enda would just leave and let someone with real potential take over like, Richard Bruton or Simon Coveney, probably too early for Simon Coveney though.

Sand

Enda Kenny has enough support from the PJ Sheenan camp to keep secure. The ambitious, motivated types had their go with Bruton a while back and that issue was settled.

Enda is going to get his turn at the big job. Wont be much change. The cute whoorism will degrade to second class levels, but thats about it. The electorate might desire a real shift away from Fianna Fail, but unfortunately, Fine Gael, Labour and the others refuse to offer the option to voters.

deise go deo

Seanohea wrote: »

I think if the same Fine Gael leadership vote was held tomorrow, Enda Kenny would be gone, Fine Gael are just dropping further in the polls.
At a time when Fianna Fail could not possibly be any less popular, Fine Gael should be cleaning up, attracting voters, telling people how they can make a real change after Fianna fail in government.
Where has Enda Kenny Been over the past few weeks? He should be in the media as much as possible trying to connect with the electorate, I just don't understand it. I'm really disappointed in Fine Gael, the last thing I want to see is a Labour led government, or even a healthy labour representation in government.
It seems unlikely now, but I wish Enda would just leave and let someone with real potential take over like, Richard Bruton or Simon Coveney, probably too early for Simon Coveney though.

Just wait for the Budget and see how many people support FF,
Why should how charming Enda is matter anyway, look at what happened when carismatic leaders were in power.
From all accounts Enda is a very different person in real life, Why should we care that he just cant put it accross on camera?

Gloomtastic!

Next time my FG TD calls to my door I would delight in asking him why the hell I should vote for FG when they, just like FF, ignore the wishes of the people and keep supporting a loser like Kenny. Unfortunately my local FG TD is Richard Bruton!

Seanohea

I'm sure he is a great guy in real life out of the public eye, but that clearly isn't something the electorate are thinking about, considering the latest significant polls.
It's very disappointing to see Fine Gael doing so badly when they should be in Labours position.

expectationlost

deise go deo wrote: »

Just wait for the Budget and see how many people support FF,
Why should how charming Enda is matter anyway, look at what happened when carismatic leaders were in power.
From all accounts Enda is a very different person in real life, Why should we care that he just cant put it accross on camera?

its his inability to verbally express concepts that people are worried about, in the dail etc

Lenny Lovett

deise go deo wrote: »

From all accounts Enda is a very different person in real life, Why should we care that he just cant put it accross on camera?

The same could be said about Cowan. And Yes! We should care about every aspect of our so called leaders!

Seanohea

It's terrible a man like Richard Bruton, one of the most intelligent Irish politicians today is left to comment on enterprise while a cliche laden Michael Noonan is spokesman for finance. It's cringeworthy to watch.

Eliot Rosewater

deise go deo wrote: »

From all accounts Enda is a very different person in real life, Why should we care that he just cant put it accross on camera?

I don't think the question is really relevant though. One has to except the fact that a large proportion of the electorate are judging Kenny on that basis and that the Fine Gael party are suffering as a result. You can argue against the reasons for that truth, but that still won't change the truth itself.

Seanohea

It's embarrassing to watch Enda Kenny try and think on his feet, both in the dail and in various odd interviews (once in a blue moon) lately.
It's as if he's trying to read off an autocue in the distance, sad stuff to watch.
If Brian Cowen can't inspire confidence in the country, Enda Kenny never will.

Seanohea

I think Fine Gael will really see the last opportunity they had to get rid of Enda Kenny as a missed opportunity.
I can think of a few Enda Kenny supporters last time who will feel this way after the next election.

snow ghost

Seanohea wrote: »

I think Fine Gael will really see the last opportunity they had to get rid of Enda Kenny as a missed opportunity.
I can think of a few Enda Kenny supporters last time who will feel this way after the next election.

The last attempt to get rid of Kenny - when a vote of no confidence in the government was iminent - did damage to Fine Gael and didn't inspire confidence among the electorate... Bruton and his cronies are responsible for that not Kenny.

I have never ever voted for Fine Gael, but would consider doing so in the next election, that said I swore after watching the disgraceful opportunism and backstabbing by pathetic giggling Bruton that I would rather vote for Cowen (which is unthinkable) than a Bruton led Fine Gael.

This country has had enough of cute hoorism and the self-serving corruption - Kenny appears to offer a viable alternative. Just because some people prefer the devil they know - corrupt, selfish untrustworthy chancers - than a straight laced guy like Kenny doesn't change that.

whatawaster

It's quite simple: Fine Gael are losing voters because Kenny is leader over Bruton.

And that could be the difference between a FG/Labour government, and a labour/FG one.

snow ghost

whatawaster wrote: »

It's quite simple: Fine Gael are losing voters because Kenny is leader over Bruton.

And that could be the difference between a FG/Labour government, and a labour/FG one.

Bruton is a disgrace - after his backstabbing, he has lost all credibility and is obviously a man of little integrity - someone who certainly shouldn't be running/ruining the country, we've had enough of those types.

What were the terms of reference for this latest opinion poll - what places were the samples taken from? I ask as there appears to be a clear Dublin bias against Kenny.

casandra

Poll on Vincent Brown to-night,

20% -- none of these,

Time for a national government ?

The best of a bad lot

Smiley Burnett

what in god's name is a "national government""???

as far as im concerned its nothing but a well-worn cliche. how do you select/elect a national goverment??

Biggins

Seanohea wrote: »

I think Fine Gael will really see the last opportunity they had to get rid of Enda Kenny as a missed opportunity.
I can think of a few Enda Kenny supporters last time who will feel this way after the next election.

Couldn't agree more. They had a timely opportunity and they screwed themselves by getting it wrong.
Now if they leave it too late to shift Kenny, it will be too close to possible election time and thus the PR detrimental effect it might have as that time nears!

They need to get the matter sorted now!

Bottle_of_Smoke

I dunno. I think Bruton's handling of the situation was appalling.

Now I do think he's right and that he would be a more electable leader, just the timing was so insane I'm looking for ulterior motives tbh.

snow ghost

It never ceases to amaze me that some will do Kenny down when the guy hasn't been in charge of the country - so on that level can't be judged - on some perception of his charisma.

But then I couldn't understand why so many people voted for FF in the last election when the writing was clearly on the wall.

nw1dqsv7amx026

snow ghost wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that some will do Kenny down when the guy hasn't been in charge of the country - so on that level can't be judged - on some perception of his charisma.

But then I couldn't understand why so many people voted for FF in the last election when the writing was clearly on the wall.

Yes I can see that you don't understand!

It may well be a Dublin bias! Maybe Cowen has the same problem?

Whatever the reason, it is irrelevant. Because it can't be changed!

Dublin bias or not the voters in Dublin return the most TDs!

The polls reflect what people are saying in Dublin at least! The polls said the same thing last time!

People like me from Dublin will not vote for Enda Kenny!

I can see that FG do not want to hear this!

jmayo

snow ghost wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that some will do Kenny down when the guy hasn't been in charge of the country - so on that level can't be judged - on some perception of his charisma.

But then I couldn't understand why so many people voted for FF in the last election when the writing was clearly on the wall.

Ah but shure a lot of those same people are now shouting about what a great fellow Gilmore is.
It just shows how f***ing deluded people in this country are that they are promoting someone who doesn't appear to believe the public service needs to have cuts rather than keep their salaries ala the Croke Park agreement.

As for the Kenny vs Bruton old argument, people might call Kenny a buffoon or eejit, but that same eejit had the political know how and balls to take on the so called brainy young tigers within the party and beat them.

Any future taoiseach is going to need balls and a will to get stuck in and fight, things I believe Bruton is sorely lacking in comparison to Kenny.
Burton has the economic brains, but I reckon he hasn't the will to fight for things.

The sad thing is the whole Kenny heave showed that FG don't have many fighters or really copped on politicans.

There are very few politicans across all the parties that would seriously cut it, and that is down to us the electorate and what we have historically wanted from our politicans.

It doesn't matter anyway since it is only a matter of time before we default.

Ash.J.Williams

snow ghost wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that some will do Kenny down when the guy hasn't been in charge of the country - so on that level can't be judged - on some perception of his charisma.

But then I couldn't understand why so many people voted for FF in the last election when the writing was clearly on the wall.

Just thinking back, FF beat all rivals in every debate coming up to the last election, now with hindsight we can see that it was propped up by credit and construction, but nobody was able to stand up to them, with Ahern at the front, and Cowen standing behind him they appeared to know their stuff.


As for Enda, he gained some respect from me after standing up to Bruton and the heave, but since then he has done and said nothing, Labour are ahead by the looks of things and Enda has failed to capitalise on his "win".

I think voting in FG will be a mistake, everyone is shouting for change and FG haven't convinced me they are a change. The country has changed dramatically this year. The people seem abhorant to the traditional gombeen pint swilling "sure it'll be grand" stroke pulling type politician, and want to feel that the government are working for them! (us).

bmaxi

I would wager Kenny is as much responsible for FF's 22%, as FG's 30%.

nw1dqsv7amx026

bmaxi wrote: »

I would wager Kenny is as much responsible for FF's 22%, as FG's 30%.

Probably!

Probably the reason FF got back in last time.

Probabably irrelevant to the FG hierarchy.

They waited long enough, Enda restored the party, FF are very bad, its their turn, they're a team, blah blah

Problem is the people don't see it that way!

Maybe the people are stupid, but hey thats democracy!

baalthor

snow ghost wrote: »

Bruton is a disgrace - after his backstabbing, he has lost all credibility and is obviously a man of little integrity - someone who certainly shouldn't be running/ruining the country, we've had enough of those types.

What were the terms of reference for this latest opinion poll - what places were the samples taken from? I ask as there appears to be a clear Dublin bias against Kenny.

Polls are conducted nationally and the 1000 people polled must be representative of the electorate otherwise the results are of little use.

This poll has been criticized because the company involved has gotten it wrong before and because of the way don't knows were calculated.
That said, every poll from every polling company in recent years has shown Kenny to be unpopular. Even that internal "poll" that FG ran during the summer

About the Dublin bias: look at Kenny's sat rating; even if he got 0% in Dublin it wouldn't be that low if he was polling respectably elsewhere. Basically, Kenny is unpopular everywhere.

snow ghost

Kaysen Attractive Typesetter wrote: »

Yes I can see that you don't understand!

It may well be a Dublin bias! Maybe Cowen has the same problem?

Whatever the reason, it is irrelevant. Because it can't be changed!

Dublin bias or not the voters in Dublin return the most TDs!

The polls reflect what people are saying in Dublin at least! The polls said the same thing last time!

People like me from Dublin will not vote for Enda Kenny!

I can see that FG do not want to hear this!

Dublin voters also put in Bertie - says it all really. :rolleyes: Once again the country is being sold down the river by the pale.

snow ghost

baalthor wrote: »

Polls are conducted nationally and the 1000 people polled must be representative of the electorate otherwise the results are of little use.

This poll has been criticized because the company involved has gotten it wrong before and because of the way don't knows were calculated.
That said, every poll from every polling company in recent years has shown Kenny to be unpopular. Even that internal "poll" that FG ran during the summer

About the Dublin bias: look at Kenny's sat rating; even if he got 0% in Dublin it wouldn't be that low if he was polling respectably elsewhere. Basically, Kenny is unpopular everywhere.

It would be very interesting to see exactly where the samples in this poll came from geographically and whether it really was respresentative of the 'whole' electorate.

nw1dqsv7amx026

snow ghost wrote: »

Dublin voters also put in Bertie - says it all really. :rolleyes: Once again the country is being sold down the river by the pale.

Wasn't only Dublin that voted FF last time I think!

Most people I know think we had no alternative last time or next time!

nw1dqsv7amx026

snow ghost wrote: »

It would be very interesting to see exactly where the samples in this poll came from geographically and whether it really was respresentative of the 'whole' electorate.

Sounds like FG/Enda Kenny. You refuse to hear.

A National Public Opinion Poll was conducted on behalf of TV3 to be broadcast on 23rdSeptember 2010.
The topics covered were current party standings, Satisfaction with the Government and party leaders. Opinions on the fall out from An Taoiseach, Brian Cowen’s recent (Morning Ireland)interview were also measured.
Interviews were conducted over the telephone, with those aged 18+.
Quota controls were set on gender, age, social class and region to mirror the 18+ population profile.
Interviews were carried out on Tuesday 21stand Wednesday 22ndSeptember 2010.

snow ghost

Kaysen Attractive Typesetter wrote: »

Wasn't only Dublin that voted FF last time I think!

Most people I know think we had no alternative last time or next time!

Sounds like you refuse to listen - I said Bertie not FF.

MrDarcy

whatawaster wrote: »

It's quite simple: Fine Gael are losing voters because Kenny is leader over Bruton.

And that could be the difference between a FG/Labour government, and a labour/FG one.

+1. Gilmore is probably a somewhat credible leader, relative to the situation we have right now, but a lot of people, myself included, will not give Labour a vote because they are too closly allied to vested interest public sector union organisations.

I will NEVER vote for FG once Kenny is in charge, the man clearly lacks credibility and is unelectable as leader of a country.

I would vote for FG if Bruton was leader, but as this isn't the case, I won't be voting for FG. As for FF and the Green Party, I don't even need to comment on the chances of them getting a vote from me.

So it looks like my vote will be going to an independent or SF. Too bad FG, because you let the little man PJ Sheehan gombeen type party politics leave a failed leader in place, and you didn't have the courage to elect a new credible leader, no vote for you guys!